I have had some bad pugs in any game i played so far.

But in Neverwinter, it's a whole new level of BAD.

Originally posted by aslan132

Saving time has never been Pay to win. Pay to win means getting something not otherwise obtainable without paying for it. Time is not one of those things. Sure someone could pay to advance alittle quicker, maybe even alot quicker, but everyone else will get there eventually. It doesnt offer any real advantage, just the illusion of advantage. Once everyone is at level cap, and the "time" factor evens out, they would have wasted all that money on nothing. I for one am happy to allow them to do this, as they help fund the game while I sit back and play for free. 

 

Get your head out of your ass. Boosts like this are never pay to win. Time is convenience, its only pay to win when it starts effecting player power above whats normally obtainable in game. 

You do not frown upon people that pay sweatshops to level their toons for them?

Because basically, that is what happening. In this case cryptic.

Let me re-iterate though ... it will not keep me up at night.

Just very interested in the general opinions :)

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by MarlonB

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by MarlonB

"you’ll be able to advance in the five professions of Leadership, Mailsmithing, Platesmithing, Leatherworking, and Tailoring, and start giving your character an extra edge in combat"

"Want your tasks to move more quickly?  No problem!  You can spend astral diamonds to speed up tasks".

Good to know you can buy these advantages.

Well it is F2P title. This was expected.

Ofcourse, but it still hurts me to see Neverwinter implement it ;o)

I'm all fine with F2P models ... as long as they do not empower the rich. If it turns out to be a 0.0001% difference, i'll look the other side.

Why would it hurt you?  Are you trying to moralize an amoral situation?

What does "empower the rich" even mean?  The first two dictionary definitions of empower describe granting authority or confidence to a person.   First you make a crazy assumption that anyone using this is rich.  Next I'm not seeing where the grant of authority or confidence comes in here.

Guess what, the rich always have the advantage in any game.  Not only that but time is a currency as well and those rich with extra time will also have an advantage.

There is more to the system than clicking a button and then bypassing the timer.  You have to meet the requirements of the task, including the necessary resources.  Since players can use the Neverwinter Gateway to access their crafting from a browser they can progress while away from the game client which means those with extra time currency have their advantage minimized.  The system is pretty good in that those with extra time or money can get an advantage, but not excessively so.  It also offers a way for those lacking in time and money to put forth a little extra effort and still progress if they want.

I forgot how serious gamers can be about these topics, my bad :)

Anyways, maybe empower is not the right word, english is not my native tongue.

"those with extra time or money can get an advantage, but not excessively so."

Good to see you agree with me though.

Thanks for the insights.

Originally posted by Yaevindusk

Originally posted by MarlonB

"you’ll be able to advance in the five professions of Leadership, Mailsmithing, Platesmithing, Leatherworking, and Tailoring, and start giving your character an extra edge in combat"

"Want your tasks to move more quickly?  No problem!  You can spend astral diamonds to speed up tasks".

 

Good to know you can buy these advantages.

If this post was sarcastic and not a sincere nod (in that you're implying there is "P2W" involved, which would still be wrong), then please do your research before posting.  Granted, I don't expect perfect research (and I know even my own understanding of it is flawed), but even the most mundane of attempts to figure out how Astral Diamonds are earned would have yielded far better results than thoughts fabricated in one's own mind as fact.  :)

 

I indeed only did  very mundane research. This is what I found:

From their Q&A:

Q: Which Founder's Pack items will I receive during Beta?

- 750,000 Astral Diamonds once per account

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by MarlonB

"you’ll be able to advance in the five professions of Leadership, Mailsmithing, Platesmithing, Leatherworking, and Tailoring, and start giving your character an extra edge in combat"

"Want your tasks to move more quickly?  No problem!  You can spend astral diamonds to speed up tasks".

 

Good to know you can buy these advantages.

Well it is F2P title. This was expected.

Ofcourse, but it still hurts me to see Neverwinter implement it ;o)

I'm all fine with F2P models ... as long as they do not empower the rich. If it turns out to be a 0.0001% difference, i'll look the other side.

"you’ll be able to advance in the five professions of Leadership, Mailsmithing, Platesmithing, Leatherworking, and Tailoring, and start giving your character an extra edge in combat"

"Want your tasks to move more quickly?  No problem!  You can spend astral diamonds to speed up tasks".

Good to know you can buy these advantages.

Originally posted by JC-Smith

Simply adding more people isn't always a good solution. 

What would help though is having more hours in a day ... i'm always at least 8 short :)

Originally posted by Thorkune

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Thorkune

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Mavolence
Played SWG since beta and frankly......Screw SWG so damn sick of hearing about that game. You know i used to think it was so so so so so so so so so good then i started playing again with the SWGemu and wow, man i just realized how many times i quit that game and came back during live and it all flooded back to me....the game was so so. I much preferred teh vanguard crafting to SWG anyways. FLAME ON

ROFL. 

For me the game had its good points and its bad points. There are some posters here who are wearing very thick rose colored glasses when talking abot that game. I was there during all of it's phases and the complaints on their forums about it's problems were more rancorous than anything I've seen in any game. I do think the crafting, cities and profession system PRe-NGE were it's best parts and is what's mostly missed by many of us who played it. 

People cried pre-NGE and were quitting due to it being too grindy. So, SOE changed it to the NGE and people cried that it wasn't pre-NGE...go figure. I personally preferred the NGE game play. I played it daily for 6 years and never once got burned out with it. It had so much to keep you interested in it.

 

The people who were complaining about it being too grindy had already left to play WOW and EQ2. The people that were left were happy with the game and just wanted SOE to fix the bugs and introduce some new quests. They didn't want the entire game turned into a WOW clone. 

I didn't leave it and I thought it was way too grindy. Are you trying to tell me that the holo grind was good?

I never did the holo-grind ... i was perfectly happy with my creature handler.

SWG was a game of choices, nobody forced you to do the holo-grind :)

Personally i'm also in the "SWG style bazar+personal vendor" camp,  but a long running discussion on the repopulation forums shows that there are als many people in the WoW AH camp :)

Feel free to chip in and input your ideas. Can't keep 'm all happy , but maybe there are solutions that can please both.

I think you should also differentiate between games that converted to F2P and games that were designed with F2P as business model.

Originally posted by Karteli

Is the world seemless?  Does it have huge load screens?  Does it use instancing?  How it character custimization?  How is the fps on an average, even with low-end machines?  I don't have a low-end machine, but I needed to ask .. because games that choke and gurgle, gasp and gag even on the low settings means higher settings are going to have problems too (ala SWTOR). 

The world is seemsless, loading screens and instances are rare.

FPS noone can tell yet ... it's in Alpha and the new HE2 engine has been implemented. There is worldbuilding to be done and a lot of optimisation iterations.

Please don't compare it to SWTOR, they build their own version of HE :)

Originally posted by CreepProphet

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by TsaboHavoc

Originally posted by lizardbones

 

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Originally posted by Quizzical

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Originally posted by CreepProphet A million monkeys typing may end up writing Shakespeare, but do you know how much crap they'll produce before they get there?

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That's a silly myth from people who don't understand probability.  A million monkeys typing on a million typewriters for a million years would probably never produce a single correct, meaningful sentence longer than 30 characters.

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The chance of a monkey typing the word, 'banana' is 1 in 15,625,000,000, assuming there are fifty keys on the typewriter (it's an old timey typewriter).

For monkeys to type out Hamlet before the end of the universe, the monkeys would have to be the size of atoms, they would have to fill the universe, the universe would have to be considerably bigger and they monkeys would have to be really fast typists.

It really only works if you have infinite monkeys, and they are in an alternate universe where there's an infinite amount of space.

I don't think this really has anything to do with developing MMORPG, since developers aren't doing things randomly. I would think though, that if it was random you'd need an alternate universe where you have an infinite number of monkey developers to get the games you want.

 

hmmm... so literal, let me translate =  A million monkeys typing may end up writing Shakespeare, but do you know how much crap they'll produce before they get there? = A million self entitled AAA developers may end up developing a gem of a game, but u do u know how much "themepark for add kiddos" they ll produce before they get there?

Your analogy is awful so don't use them- PLEASE.

 

As another poster sated, MMO's are expensive to produce, how expensive is that Bot? Think 1-5 million minimum and 2-3 yrs minumum. I am basing this on what we have seen in the industry so far in the last 2 years. Independents will produce games, but they will be like Minecraft graphics (don't get me wrong, Minecraft is fun but the graphics get to me after a while). Games being produced with crowdfunding will only get so far, then they will need real money to come in and finish the process. You have to show these people that the game can make money.

 

In every industry, it is a numbers game.

 

I'm not sure how accurate that is. If you look at the Pre-Alpha footage for The Repopulation the graphics and mechanics were looking solid before the initial Kickstarter/crowdfunding event. 

I'm really looking forward to what they can do with the additional income. 

Pre-alpha footage was in Hero Engine 1, now that Hero Engine 2 is put in place, it looks loads prettier :)

I liked the way SWG handled this ... you could "declare" PvP. You could live a livetime there without PvP-ing, while others would do nothing else.

Keep an eye on the repopulation, they are going the same route.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Whitebeards

Originally posted by qombi

Originally posted by Whitebeards
Indie game just get by  and this one will also just get by or shut down like other sandboxes. Time will tell.

Minecraft just gets by ... I guess.

To the original poster:

I may take your post serious when you stop trying to form arguments with "herp/derp", "EPIC Fail", and "Terribad".

Mine craft is a sandbox MMO now? since when?

I keep looking for the word "MMO" in your OP, yet I can't find it.  Saying what you mean goes a long way to communicating your point which is empty by the way.

The point was that a small team with little budget can make an awesome game. The "MMO" part (where was it mentioned?)  is not even relevant.

Originally posted by Atrocitus

 

So automating/reusage in quest content can allow for more content? Perhaps, but logic dictates repeating quest types will become boring after the first 30 runs.

Kept people in SWG happy for years and those quests were a lot more simple then The Repopulation has to offer.

Questing, generally speaking, is something that players are tired of, much less repeated quest type. And it can be argued that questing is a very shallow content base. In this day and age, games are moving away from this old method of keeping players busy.

Yes, people are done with themeparks ... this is not a themepark.

Questing is optional. How you entertain yourself is completely up to you.

Again, in two weeks time, after players have done the requisite kill and collect quest or whatever, that type of 'content' will not add to this games allure. Same ol' same ol.....I can hear the players crying now..../shrug

Depends on your targeted player base.

So your argument about computer generated questing giving players something to do? Doesn't hold up......There has to be content, A LOT of it to keep players after the initial launch. There simply are not enough workers to contribute to the overall game.

It's a sandbox .. they give you tools to create content.

The quests are in for people that do enjoy a quest every now and then, but it's optional.

How you deem 'artwork' as content is beyond me.

He wasn't, he was refering to the fact that you can build a game with a small team by outsourcing work and having dedicated volunteers. These volunteers often understand better what gamers want then highly paid developers. Big difference between pay and passion.

 Regarding Hero Engine.

Lack of customization is absolutely horrible. Players can't stand looking like the guy next to him. The only mmo that did this right was Aion. And lets face it, The Repop is no Aion when it comes to customization, or alot of other things for that matter.

I agree it's not Aion, The Repopulation is not aiming to be a shallow game where you can look different.

Horrible graphics, zero customization and watching a pvp slideshow will do nothing to help this game.....

Dissapointed SWTOR fan? Blame them, not the engine.

 Horrid AI? The oft repeated ITS IN ALPHA hurp/durp excuse isn't going to be enough when this game launches. You and I both know there won't be any massive upgrading in that dept before launch. Be honest.......

There will be no release until it's finished. They have stated that repeatedly.

You should read the monthly updates and marvell at all the new features that are put in. 

Customer service? You glossed over that point......Again, a small work force won't be able to handle the complaints and problems after launch.

It's not hyped as the next WoW-killer ... there will not be millions of players at launch and it also doesn't need millions of players at launch to make up for the ridiculous budgets these AAA games burn.

Your lack of a larger dev team will be mired in bug squishing eternally. If you think your launching with a lack of content, wait until two months down the road when people are wondering where the content updates are, and your still dealing with alpha bugs......

There will be no release until it's finished. They have stated that repeatedly. Due to not being tied to nor controlled by big investors, they are free to decide when it's released.

SImply put, this game has too many negatives going against it....../shrug

You summed up a handfull of assumed negatives .. did you bother checking the postives?

Originally posted by strangiato2112

 

Basically im saying making a star wars type movie for the price it cost to make clerks.   good luck with that.

That was an awesome example.

"Clerks, which was shot for $27,575 in the convenience store where director Kevin Smith worked in real life, grossed over $3 million in theaters, launching Smith's career."

Originally posted by strangiato2112

Originally posted by MarlonB

I see it like going to the cinema. I spend 8 bucks on a ticket ... not knowing if the movie will be any good. If it was, cool.

 

 

 

Its more like buying a ticket 4 years in advance based off a plot outline for a sci-fi epic, knowing that its got an amateur director, will have a bare bones crew, cheap, no-name actors, and a non existent special effects budget.

Yeah, its possible they pull off something amazing, but there is a strong chance you are paying for Plan 9 from outer space part 2, if the project even gets finished.

You just described a lot of good sci-fi movies ;)

The reward is different too ... while the movie will most definatly end after 2 hours ... this could be a game that will entertain you for much much longer.

If you refer to the engine being crap as being used in SWTOR, they used a heavily modified 7 year old version where the HE devs have kept telling them not to do it.

I see it like going to the cinema. I spend 8 bucks on a ticket ... not knowing if the movie will be any good. If it was, cool.

Same with theater ... wasted a lot of money on crap performances, but also enjoyed some incredibly good ones.

One thing that makes this game different from others to me is that the owners have been building and funding it from their own pocket so far .. and look at how far they have gotten. Where big publishers make games for money, they make it because they want to make a fun game. You pledge not to pay for these guys, but to help finish the game they envision.