---

Originally posted by Ruyn
I can only comment on Darkfall and Mortal online.
Darkfall currently is all about PvP.  It's fun for awhile but it is missing a lot of the sand or tools that make a sandbox game so fun.  The good news is that it appears that AV realizes this and appear to be working to change this.
Mortal Online is looking to take a step back and play games like they used to be played.  Things like not having a map but giving players the tools to make their own map.  A skill cap so you have to decide what path you want to go down.  A crafting system that is complex.  A housing system with depth.  The thing is this game will be a rough release with just it's core features intact.  If you do not have the patience to be part of a game that will take time to grow, then I would wait.

---

The sad thing about Mortal Online thou is that in the end it will end up just like Darkfall unless something drastically changes.

Yes I would say the definition of a sandbox is freedom, for me its only been 1 one mmo, no one Game that has ever really shown us what a Sandbox game can be like and that is Wurm Online, an mmo made by 1 person has shown how it can be made.

What Wurm Online does is allow you to terraform terrain, craft everything from scratch and in detail, houses are completely customized as you put walls where you want to put them etc no pre made housing models etc. It is actually theoretically possible to chop down every tree in the game and flatten the entire world out. Of course that has never happened but it is possible. As an example people have done things like load up tons and tons of dirt into boats and go out to sea build their own island, and then put a fort on there.

If a game just like Wurm Online could get a 50 man team behind it and a few million dollars would see the next evolution of MMO's.

lol well I have no idea what their history, but I have gotten used to most interesting mmo's getting some attention here and after adding Mortal Online to my list of disappointing "Sandbox" attempts I put my faith in Dawntide and Adellion.

The most important definition of Sandbox to me is that you don't always have to be hitting the other kids with shovels and sometimes you just get along.

Well I created the thread in site suggestions which I thought would be the best place for it, I didn't know it had to be requested by the devs, that is a shame but I guess not surprising that the mods around here are to lazy to do any actual work :)

---

Originally posted by pencilrick
Sandbox:  Everquest I (pre-Luclin)
Themepark:  Anything you can rent from Netflix; movies basically, fully scripted and fully guided.  That seems to be where the linear folks are headed, anyway.

---

Can't agree that Everquest was a sandbox sorry, I've only played one true Sandbox game and that was Wurm Online, only mmo I have ever seen that allowed people to terraform.

---

Originally posted by glofish
Here are a few innovations in Aion that I think will be seen in most subsequent  MMOs from now on:
 
1. manastone, enchants and dyeing by everyone- customize the look and stats on your equipment
2. gliding, best of both worlds, flying without making terrain obsolete
3. fluid combat, amazing special effects, particles and sound
4. level limited rifting - visit hostile faction in their lands yet discourage ganking
 
PS (edit). I am not claiming that any of these were invented by Aion - what I am saying that it was implemented very well in Aion thus moved the genre forward by showing how to do it right
(who could possibly claim that they have invented a game mechanics anyhow - there is nothing new under the Sun)

---

I'd say gliding is the only thing that Aion did first of those things, for example level limited rifting was done in WAR, fluid combat was AoC I believe and customizeing gear was done by Dark age of Camelot and WAR among others. I am sorry but Aion is doing nothing new.

Sandbox is way more fun, Sandbox you can play with for years and years but a theme park you are tired of in 5 or so hours.

My obvious suggesting to you is Wurm Online, that game has the largest learning curve that I have ever seen and its a game where everything is player made. The graphics and animations are pretty bad but the game is actually pretty fantastic.

Other then that you can pick up a candle and sit with me and wait for either Adellion or Dawntide to release.

It's pretty easy for me, Levels.

Was just a bit surprised to see that Dawntide was not listed on the gamelist, it is a very promising sandbox mmo in beta 2 and without an NDA.

http://www.dawntide.net/

I'll second Wurm, the best pound for pound game ever made. But the graphics aren't much to look at :)

I came to these forums today looking for the next Wurm Online myself, but no one has been able to tip me of anything I haven't played or read about already. I just want a Wurm Online style game made by more then 1 person...

No surprise that UO was at the top of the list but I would point out that there has been attempts at games like UO but they have never gotten the backing of a major developing house. The reason we haven't seen another UO is because of Everquest, Everquest was so much more successful that UO was forgotten by the giants. Then came WoW and cemented that belief without the theory that levels and classes are better having been properly tested.

It took 5-10 years but eventually the fans got tired of waiting for Ubisoft, Blizzard, EA, Sony or anyone to make a game like UO so small projects started popping up. The names that come to mind right away are of course Shadowbane, Dark & Light, Darkfall, SWG and my favorite Wurm Online.

Personally I don't want a remake of UO I just want a game like Darkfall or Mortal Online to truly live up to their potential. Maybe now after the massive failures of games like WAR, AoC and other WoW clones some big name company will be willing to put 50 million dollars on a game like Darkfall or Mortal Online.

Crazy ride is a tremendous understatement for me. I was one of those people that had waited for 4-5 years for Darkfall before it finally launched this year, I was also one of the few thousand of people that got to beta test the game for a month and I was one of the first few thousand that was in the game on launch day.

My journey with Darkfall has been such a roller coaster for so many years that it is without a doubt the game that has had the biggest impact on my life ever.

I stopped playing Darkfall about 3 months after the launch but the thing is beta and the first 2 months after launch I played the best game I have ever played and I have been a gamer for over 10 years and played hundreds of games and dozens of mmos in my time and nothing has ever come even close to the pure joy of playing Darkfall.
But as great as Darkfall was as suddenly it died right at my feet.

The first 2 months of Darkfall was all about rushing to gather resources, claiming a city, sending out raiding parties and fighting of raiding parties. The game felt incredibly dynamic and with so much promise of what was to come but it turned out that once that we conquered that first mountain there was no lush valley behind it but just an empty desert and that was one of the most devastating experiences of my gaming carer.

I guess I should have seen it coming and in the end it comes down to that it was an unfinished title developed by a team that while they had the heart didn't really have the muscle to finish a project of this size. Maybe one day Darkfall will be a finished title but for now I am still licking my wounds.

I have spent a lot of time thinking about this and the truth is that no mmo has levels becuase its a good gameplay feature or becuase they think people enjoy levels. The 1 and only reason devs put levels in games is because it allows them to reuse the same gameplay over and over again while giving you the illusion of progression, but when you think about it you did pretty much exactly the same quest at lvl 1 as you do at max level, it might have gotten a bit more complex but at its core its exactly the same.

So by adding levels it means they don't have to make a deep and interesting game and still give you endless of gameplay hours.

I am simply wondering if anyone has any good tips. I know of a few but none which is really what I want. Darkfall, Wurm Online, ATITD and in development I know of Mortal Online and Adellion. So does anyone else have any interesting lvl free, classless mmo's either in development or released to recommended?

This is a competitive mmo, personally I don't think they have any choice but to wipe. The balance of the game has been unnaturally shifted and the only way to make it a fair start is to wipe.

Not just the exploiting mind you but there were many human chars that had to delete their characters with thousands of gold on them because of the crash bug.

I can verify that was is being said here is true, one clan has built walls and towers and that is just because its only been about a month since the last wipe and it takes time to build clan cities. My own clan was the first in the game to build the tier 3 Keep but with launch getting closer we decided to switch focus to pvp for the remainder of beta.

Darkfalls graphics are very good for an mmo, but not only that they have great 'feel' to them, similar to how WoWs graphics draws you in, Darkfalls does the same. There are still a few things that need fixing or tweaking but the game is very much ready for launch. It's come a long way in just the last week and as we have seen with preorders the game is enormously popular especially among the beta testers themselves. Polls have shown around 80% attach rate which is incredibly high.

From my own personal view its quite simply the best game I have ever played, part of this is probably my amazing clan that are just having a blast in Darkfall, and my clan has 100% attach rate on pre orders. Everyone wants to play it.

That is of course only my personal view but if you like me feel tired of pointless, boring mmos that never really challenges you, well then I urge you to pick up Darkfall.

As a beta tester I can say without a hint of hesitation that Darkfall is the best game I have ever played, period. And I don't mean just MMO's either, its the best game ever made imo. The funny thing is that the game hasn't even reached its full potential yet. As I am loving every second of beta I do catch myself thinking, "I can hardly believe how good this will be one day".

I kid you not, imo it is that good.

ps. for those who cares I have 17 years of gaming addiction behind me and I have played hundreds of games.

I'm a beta tester and Darkfall is and never was vaporware. The game has held every last promise that matters. OP is just a troll that wants to save face.

It could use a few more animals in the wild but other then that its all perfect. But even with the animals I really really don't want it to be like WoW where there is 2 animals for every square inch. It just makes the world feel unrealistic and stupid.

Beta Tester since the 25th of Jan here and I have loved ever minute of of it. I can also speak for every last one of my 40 clan mates in beta and we all just love the game to bits. Sure like the preview says its rough around the edges but that doesn't stop it from being the best game I have ever played, and I actually love the PvE most of all.