I remember reading that Archage is a game that has primarily been designed for the western market so it would make sense to actually release it here as quickly as possible :)

In a game like this the players make the world and the lore so I doubt it will be much of a problem.

Why would they spend 6 years making the wow killer to then destroy the game by making in f2p? That makes no sense to me.

Sorry OP but you are just plain wrong, there is a balance to be found in open world pvp and how hardcore it should be but the existence of open world pvp is 100% positive for a game. Also there has never been an open world pvp game with this kind of budget and production in the history of MMO's.

From what I understand with Archage pvp is something you choose to do and can just as easily avoid, I could be wrong but that is what I have understood and it seem to me that Archage is aiming to appeal more to the casual serious gamers.

I have never said this about any MMO before but this is the first game that I have ever considered a potential wow killer.

I've been waiting for this game for 15 years and its finally shaping up to fall into my hands, this game sounds pretty much like everything I want in an MMO and is at least 2 generations ahead of anything else being made. Guild Wars 2, Star Wars or whatever all looks like complete shite to me compared to this.

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Originally posted by Larsa

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Originally posted by Tukieu13
4 out of the 7 were SOE titles.

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Nice observation. I reckon the author has a Sony Station pass. :) The only non-SOE titles on the list are Eve, Darkfall and Fallen Earth.
I also reckon the author never played any of the older or more Indie titles like Wurm, Ryzom, Horizons or Tale in the Desert.

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I think you hit the nail right on the head there.

Haven't played all those games but I can't possibly see how any of those have a better crafting system then Wurm Online. Not only does Wurm Online actually let people discover new things by combining different items, the entire world is player built.

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Originally posted by Antemortem
Thanks for this! Xyson looks amazing :)
 
OMFG. Xsyon is totally, on paper, the game that I always been looking for. COMPLETELY PLAYER DRIVEN. No NPC :D
That will rock.

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I have to eco that statement thou its to early to tell how it will turn out in the end, they are promising us the sky and beyond so I can't help but doubt they will actually be able to deliver. It also worries me that they will make the same mistake as Mortal and Darkfall and make a game that only rewards pks which = dead game.

Why is Vanguard being mentioned as a Sandbox game? Personally I think Wurm Online is the only true sandbox that I know of as its the only one that allows you to alter terrain, I am not sure what kind of sandboxes you played in as a kid but that was kind of the main feature.

To me the meaning of sandbox have gotten so warped that it seems it can mean almost anything these days. Vanguard is a theme park mmo, class based, level based, you go from zone to zone as you level and do the same quests over and over again. Open world pvp does NOT (and I really mean it) DOES NOT equal sandbox! That is like saying that if WoW didn't have factions and allowed open world pvp it would transform from theme park to sandbox, which is just stupid.

I do believe this is also why misinformed people call AC sandbox sometimes.

Also what makes Ryzom a sandbox mmo? I honestly don't know much about that game so I am curious.

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Originally posted by SabbathSMC
Xyson is i guess the next up and comming sandbox similar to wurm.

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Wow I had totally missed that one, thank you!

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Originally posted by maxkill42
Why has no one said WURM ONLINE!
Its all player built

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That's what I was thinking when I was reading this thread, there is really no question which mmo has the best house building system. You can't just build houses you can design them however you want.

Not to worry 1 month into the game and there will be 4 builds in the game for each situation, either that or all the souls are so similar that it won't matter.

I think anyone that actually thinks Rift will be a massive long term success obviously didn't play Warhammer. Everything about this games scream Warhammer and at the end of the day its just bad wow.

To me the biggest problem for sandbox games right now is that hardcore pvp and sandbox for some reason have gotten entwined. In fact a sandbox games doesn't need to be hardcore at all, just look at a game like Minecraft that allows you to play it however you want and its incredibly successful.

And even a game like Wurm Online that is pretty much a better game then Minecraft in every possible way (except for physics) has a hard time having more then a couple of thousand subs simply because its to damn hard. I don't think it matters if you are sandbox or theme park if you design a game to be extremely hard in the beginning and then make it easier and easier as you get over the first major hurdle you are in trouble big time.

I have known for a long time that Wurm Online could get about 200k subs easily by simply making the game easier and allowing people to pick their own personal flavor. Instead what Rolf the dev for Wurm Online does with his different zones is start at difficulty 10 and then the other choices are 20 and 500. True now days there is the newbie starting area Golden Valley but that is just a overpopulated wasteland that lacks many of the best features of the game.

Sandbox does not have to equal hardcore or pvp at all for that matter yet games like Darkfall, Motral Online develop with such a focus on pvp and combat that all other ideas they had originally get pushed under the rug.

Wurm is a fantastic MMO but it takes years to skill up and if you want to play on a real server you will be forced into pointless combat. I have played Wurm quite a lot and have loved it at times but also hate it at other times. It is without a doubt the hardest mmo I have played.

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Originally posted by TUX426

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Originally posted by smitty0356
I know these are going to be totally different games, but how many people are going to jump to another game from the same IP?  This is a fairly rare situation, to get 2 shots at the same IP.

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Is it too terribly different than 2 "sword and sorcerer" type games? How many MMOs have swords? How many have Dwarfs or Bards or Hobbits (vertically challenged)? They may have the same IP as their basis, but I hope to God SWTOR isn't attempting to be SWG...at least not current SWG.
I see what you're asking, but in the 7 years since SWG's release, I think MMOs have changed quite a bit in design - no matter how great it once was, updates ARE needed...so I don't think it's so much a "rare" situation as much as it is the first evolution of an MMO?!  Meaning the original has outlived itself.
SWG wont last long after SWTOR (or possibly even until) - they wont need to coexist for long.

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Erm WoW is based on Everquest, Everquest came out long before SWG.

What amazes me is how stupid the people with money are, they really think they can out polish blizzard and its cost many company's lots and lots of money. The difference between a movie or a tv show and an mmo is that most people play 1 mmo and that is it. So while many people will watch both A-Team and Expendables people are not going to play WoW and a WoW clone at the same time. They might be curious and give it a shot (like with AoC and Warhammer) but in the end go back to the better game (WoW).

So what baffles me is why so many people try to attack the 5000 pound gorilla head on rather then doing what blizzard did and perfect a different kind of mmo. There is a huge huge market out there for a new type of mmo but so far we have never seen one of these kinds of mmo's backed by a real modern budget (Wurm Online, Shadowbane, Darkfall etc). Personally I wouldn't not at all be surprised however if Blizzrds mystery mmo is indeed an mmo like those and they will get another 5 million subs to that game without losing any subs for WoW.

As to answer the OP's question we just need game company's to not be run by stupid cowards.

I do believe this is the biggest untapped market in gaming atm, the potential for a a big game is there. The problem is that all these sandbox games these days like Mortal Online, Darkfall and even EvE make their games 90% about PvP and only about 5% of MMO players even care about PvP and even less think its the most important thing.

Wurm Online's biggest problem is that its simply to hard for new players, if they made that game easier it would quickly double its sub base. And I won' buy any of the bullshit about "it has to be hard that's the point" blablabla the fact is that for most Wurm players that have played for a long time there is no challenge left at all, its only hard near impossible for noobs and challenge for the vets.

Personally I hope that Blizzard is working on a Wurm style game for their new unannounced MMO, since what Blizzard does is take a genera with unrealized potential and makes the perfect game.

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Originally posted by Ruyn
I can only comment on Darkfall and Mortal online.
Darkfall currently is all about PvP.  It's fun for awhile but it is missing a lot of the sand or tools that make a sandbox game so fun.  The good news is that it appears that AV realizes this and appear to be working to change this.
Mortal Online is looking to take a step back and play games like they used to be played.  Things like not having a map but giving players the tools to make their own map.  A skill cap so you have to decide what path you want to go down.  A crafting system that is complex.  A housing system with depth.  The thing is this game will be a rough release with just it's core features intact.  If you do not have the patience to be part of a game that will take time to grow, then I would wait.

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The sad thing about Mortal Online thou is that in the end it will end up just like Darkfall unless something drastically changes.

Yes I would say the definition of a sandbox is freedom, for me its only been 1 one mmo, no one Game that has ever really shown us what a Sandbox game can be like and that is Wurm Online, an mmo made by 1 person has shown how it can be made.

What Wurm Online does is allow you to terraform terrain, craft everything from scratch and in detail, houses are completely customized as you put walls where you want to put them etc no pre made housing models etc. It is actually theoretically possible to chop down every tree in the game and flatten the entire world out. Of course that has never happened but it is possible. As an example people have done things like load up tons and tons of dirt into boats and go out to sea build their own island, and then put a fort on there.

If a game just like Wurm Online could get a 50 man team behind it and a few million dollars would see the next evolution of MMO's.