Originally posted by otter3370

Originally posted by -exo

Originally posted by otter3370

I think one of the problems I have with the OPs post is because of this comment, " The problem here with World of warcraft is the game was made for everyone under the sun. From Grandmothers , to babysitters, to Gays to lawyers, Police officers, Your local Grocery store manager."

Do you honestly think it's these people that are being the elitist jerks and not letting new people in their groups?  These are the people that are harrassing you poor hardcore gamers and being mean to you?  You are delusional if that's what you think.  The hardcore gamers that take the game way too seriously are the assbags that you're referring too with your post.  You're logic is twisted into knots.  Right after your comment that the game was made for everyone under the sun, you say it was originally built for the hardcore gamer....huh?  Which is it? 

I'm not trying to bash the OP or be a WoW fanboi.  I'm just confused as to what he's trying to say.  Is he upset with casual gamers for being elitist gamers?  If so, that makes no sense to me.  Is he mad at his fellow hardcore gamers but is transferring that anger to the "babysitters and grandmothers" so he doesn't have to blame himself and his fellow hardcore gamers for the state of the endgame "wow mentality"?

 

Well, first off let me apologize if you were offended in any shape or form. Secondly, I used these as an example and I'm sorry that you took this to heart.   And the game was made for Everyone. Purchasing in game pets that do nothing but sit there and have no meaning what so ever? to lovely valentines day events ?  yes this game was made for everyone else under the sun.

The game WAS originally made for the hardcore gamer. Hence the 40 man raids, the competing for extreme gear, spending 16 hours a day to get that one piece?  Also I never said that those were the kinds of people harassing, at all and again used as an example.  

 

 The point of it was when you get such a mass amount of influx AS world of warcraft.. AS I USED THOSE EXAMPLES... you get a lot of people who tend to not care, who are jerks and go far beyond the definition of "elitist" ... I would rather play with an elitist then the person who expects you too have something already the moment you start playing. Like i said there for goes into "WORK" mode.

Also i think you forgot to highlight the part "since the burning crusade was released"... you obviously didn't pay much attention to the thread and really are just trying to flame me.

 

 

I was not offended in the least...just confused.  And no, I wasn't trying to flame you at all.  I just couldn't follow your logic.  I think our definitions are just very different.  For me, the elitist IS the one that expects you to have something already the moment you start playing. 

Again, I wasn't trying to hurt your feelings or flame you.  I just felt you contradicted yourself.  You seemed to do it again with the elitist comment.  Maybe English isn't your first language.  I apologize if I misunderstood the less coherent parts of your posts.

LOl, english is my first language I just seem to have a hard time putting things down on paper, sort of speak.  Basically in the sense I was just using it as an example to show how big the community actually is and the reasons why even the non "elitist" jerks are able to get away with doing it just as much as those who are elitists.

Originally posted by otter3370

I think one of the problems I have with the OPs post is because of this comment, " The problem here with World of warcraft is the game was made for everyone under the sun. From Grandmothers , to babysitters, to Gays to lawyers, Police officers, Your local Grocery store manager."

Do you honestly think it's these people that are being the elitist jerks and not letting new people in their groups?  These are the people that are harrassing you poor hardcore gamers and being mean to you?  You are delusional if that's what you think.  The hardcore gamers that take the game way too seriously are the assbags that you're referring too with your post.  You're logic is twisted into knots.  Right after your comment that the game was made for everyone under the sun, you say it was originally built for the hardcore gamer....huh?  Which is it? 

I'm not trying to bash the OP or be a WoW fanboi.  I'm just confused as to what he's trying to say.  Is he upset with casual gamers for being elitist gamers?  If so, that makes no sense to me.  Is he mad at his fellow hardcore gamers but is transferring that anger to the "babysitters and grandmothers" so he doesn't have to blame himself and his fellow hardcore gamers for the state of the endgame "wow mentality"?

Well, first off let me apologize if you were offended in any shape or form. Secondly, I used these as an example and I'm sorry that you took this to heart.   And the game was made for Everyone. Purchasing in game pets that do nothing but sit there and have no meaning what so ever? to lovely valentines day events ?  yes this game was made for everyone else under the sun.

The game WAS originally made for the hardcore gamer. Hence the 40 man raids, the competing for extreme gear, spending 16 hours a day to get that one piece?  Also I never said that those were the kinds of people harassing, at all and again used as an example.  

 The point of it was when you get such a mass amount of influx AS world of warcraft.. AS I USED THOSE EXAMPLES... you get a lot of people who tend to not care, who are jerks and go far beyond the definition of "elitist" ... I would rather play with an elitist then the person who expects you too have something already the moment you start playing. Like i said there for goes into "WORK" mode.

Also i think you forgot to highlight the part "since the burning crusade was released"... you obviously didn't pay much attention to the thread and really are just trying to flame me.

Originally posted by Horusra

Originally posted by -exo

 

I honestly don't think you read the name of  my post. The title is called " Reasons Why WoW has the #1 worse community player base. "   And you are focusing on top end content and a challenge to players.  I posted the content and challenge to players to give the example that it's not JUST gamers that are brought in to the game.  You can still be a gamer, and be a complete "noob" to a game.  Unless you are just trying to flame me because you think  I'm some nerd rage quitting fanboi who decided to post on mmorpg.com and you are trying to take a low stab at me because you can.

 

Oh and you took the high road labeling one game out of your most likely limited experience as the worst community....that high road must be the shore of the sea....

Well, shore of the Sea or not, it is the truth is it not??

I think instead, what i am going to do is create an "age maturity" guild community here on WoW.  Personally for the players who do enjoy raiding.. but also understand how important it is to help your fellow player to get the things needed for a guild as a whole.

So possibly instead here soon i'll throw up another post of the location and server im at in the guild recruitment thread, because due to just this thread i've had tons of people ask where I play and if they could join with me. So in that case, seeing how I already have a small guild of my own I haven o problem taking those of you in if you wish to xfer or re roll on the server I play on if you are really having that hard of a time currently in the game.  Granted my server isn't filled with the greatest minds of players... but the economy at the least is great and can help supply for the guild needs.

Originally posted by Horusra

Originally posted by -exo

Originally posted by Funball

 Everyone on the internet is a douchebag.  MMO gamers, even more so.  Sorry to have to break it to you.

 

Actually no, and i was waiting for a post like this. Just today, i was in a group with a new fellow to the game . he types in part chat "hey guys, i've never done this instance before and i really don't want to be kicked."  I replied " hey that's fine, we will teach you."  I have NEVER seen someone actually in so much confusion they had to ask  " why are you being so nice to me? Thank you though for not kicking me, though i don't have the proper requirements."

 

         Its been either that long that someone has been nice to this guy in this game, or he has been in so many groups with so many "douchebags" as you put it that he has to state a speech before he begins to "work" with these people. IF you ask me that's pretty sick and twisted that someone has to "bow down" to the BS of the typical WoW player like so.

 

By the way, on the EQ comment. You are correct. Eq did have these kinds of people, but at the least EQ provided a challenge and your reputation with people did matter to some degree.

 

ok you contridict yourself.  either WoW is challenging in that new people, to top end content,  get confused or it is so easy that no one gets confused....or you just have angst again WoW and decided to take it out here. 

I honestly don't think you read the name of  my post. The title is called " Reasons Why WoW has the #1 worse community player base. "   And you are focusing on top end content and a challenge to players.  I posted the content and challenge to players to give the example that it's not JUST gamers that are brought in to the game.  You can still be a gamer, and be a complete "noob" to a game.  Unless you are just trying to flame me because you think  I'm some nerd rage quitting fanboi who decided to post on mmorpg.com and you are trying to take a low stab at me because you can.

Originally posted by Chickenfries

Not saying this just because it's your icon...but I played Aion at beta and on. I quit it cause the community is so terrible and for a few other reasons but that's not what this is about =). IMO (and that's what the OP is about, a matter of opinion)  WoW isn't as bad as Aion.

Oh, i don't play Aion anymore. I was invited to the aion beta as well. I just like the picture :).  And WoW's community was and still is ten times as worse then Aion.  At the least in Aion, i could deal with people camping me for hours upon end.  In Aion the community at the least did care about their reputation on their own faction. Keep in Mind too Aion had a split half  of people from Guild wars /lineage and WoW. This is what that game attracted.

Originally posted by Funball

 Everyone on the internet is a douchebag.  MMO gamers, even more so.  Sorry to have to break it to you.

Actually no, and i was waiting for a post like this. Just today, i was in a group with a new fellow to the game . he types in part chat "hey guys, i've never done this instance before and i really don't want to be kicked."  I replied " hey that's fine, we will teach you."  I have NEVER seen someone actually in so much confusion they had to ask  " why are you being so nice to me? Thank you though for not kicking me, though i don't have the proper requirements."

         Its been either that long that someone has been nice to this guy in this game, or he has been in so many groups with so many "douchebags" as you put it that he has to state a speech before he begins to "work" with these people. IF you ask me that's pretty sick and twisted that someone has to "bow down" to the BS of the typical WoW player like so.

By the way, on the EQ comment. You are correct. Eq did have these kinds of people, but at the least EQ provided a challenge and your reputation with people did matter to some degree.

     Let's Talk about player base.  No, not "skills" in a game or how well people do at the game, but the community itself. Sure every game has it's  A- .... Jerks....  and most people throw them on an ignore list or decide to just avoid them. The problem here with World of warcraft is the game was made for everyone under the sun. From Grandmothers , to babysitters, to Gays to lawyers, Police officers, Your local Grocery store manager. 

               This game was originally built for the "hard core" Gamer. Since the release of burning crusade the game decided to investigate a huge black hole in the ground, slip and fell, and is now in this constant tumble of getting worse and worse.  Originally the "complaints" were on how the content is getting easy, the content "there isn't enough,  "they are ruining the lore!", tons of other things just for the game itself. But now I come to a stand point where this has become the last straw. Blizzards community has been so ... "non caring"... about one another ... it is as though the real world was brought into this game. 

Now, let's back track here for a second. I was invited to the closed beta in this game during 2004 , have followed the WC series since 1994.  I distinctly remember  having to actually be in a party with people to work for my gear along with competing with 40 other people.

   Just recently , these past few days, my wife and brother in law have hit the level cap of 80.  I have been helping run with them through some heroics to help them "gear" their "toons".  My hunter is in most of the Tier 10 gear also with a lot of the ICC pieces since the release of the patch. Now it just so happens, every group we get , people decide that their crap doesn't stink and decide to bash these two new players  for everything under the sun, nit picking on some of the most stupid crap I have seen since the release of this game. yet of course they say nothing to me because of my "Gear". I find it very strange how people yet expect everyone to already have the items needed to complete say such dungeon or raid, WHEN THAT IS WHY THEY WERE THERE TO BEGIN WITH.

    This really is the last straw, the community has gotten so bad and foul that it sickens me to even talk with the majority of the people in this game. The "wow mentality" has gotten this label for that exact reason.  It makes me even more upset to know that I have to pick up two other game subscriptions just to fill a community void because A lot of these players in world of warcraft think "hey, it's the internet not like these people are real or ever see them. " WRONG. with as big as this game is, you are bound to at least run into people once whether it is on another game ( which i have plenty of times already ) or could be at your local ice cream parlor.. or some where else random ( which i have as well.)  

   this game is no longer the game that immerses you into a "Fantasy" world, well not for me at the least. This is the kind of game now that makes you feel like you live in the back alley's of New york City. A Dog eat Dog world.

I will close with this...

         Those of you who really do think this way as far as the "wow mentality" goes, I really do feel sorry for you seeing how you are missing out on a lot of other joys right now the gaming industry has to offer. not just that but even other types of games have to offer. Do you miss actually having fun? instead of trying to compete for #1 dps/tank/heals?  I know I do... I'm sick of having to feel like the game is a job. Most of all I'm sick of "working" with people in a game, and not playing with them, like the game intends.

 Thank you for taking your time out of your day/night to read this thread. Greatly appreciated :).

-exo

Originally posted by Scot

I drew on that that article Jairoe03 as it highlights increasing commercialism in MMO’s. When RMT equals xp potions, that effects gameplay. When your sole source of income is items, that effects area design, classes, levelling, the UI, you name it really.

It is the change in leadership that has lead to the focusing in on marketing and profit. Which in turn has lead to cash shops. But they are just one facet of the changes, MMO’s being struck from one template, PvP a watered down afterthought, your in game decisions never having a detrimental effect. It has many facets.

Producing a great MMO which players want to play is becoming history. Now they want to establish a brand we all want to play. All of us, no mater if you hate PvP or love crafting, loathe housing or love groups. This is the marketing strategy found for example in soft drinks. They want us to all drink a cola, your ‘choice’ will be Pepsi Cola or Coca Cola.

Vive la difference!

I agree with this 100%. I was JUST "preaching" this kind of thing to a lot of my online friends as well as IRL friends. Which is why people continuously go back to WoW, as just an example because "everything" is in it.  WoW was not built for the gamer, it was built for the typical house wife, or lawyer.  Police officer to manager over your local grocery store.  WoW, as an example is one of these games Scot here is talking about. I enjoyed WoW's reign. I think it should end though, and i think there really should be a gamers game to come out.

I was actually just about to ask this same thing.

Originally posted by Thornrage

 Funcom screwed up massively with the launch of the game. After two months I left and played other games. I returned last year and have been having a blast ever since.

yep, just resubbed two days ago as i just put in a couple other posts....  A lot of players are starting to pour back in which is great. Actually  there are whole guilds coming back to the game too, of like 40 - 50 people each. pretty awesome.

Yeah, Funcom has gotten much better. I actually just resubbed not even  two days ago. and the game is great! It's funny how much things can be fixed with just a little tweak. I've seen lots of players pour back into the game. It's actually really nice to see too.

I think that is a wonderful idea, and amazing too. I just resubbed not even 2 days ago to the game. it IS a lot better. i originally quit 2 weeks into release. since i've been back, the game has been wonderful!

so then you honestly don't want a challenge?  Skills only show what you are doing, not that you are being challenged. There is a difference.

But that was my point exactly, why should it be balanced?

Originally posted by SirPaco

the thread explaning this on these forums was deleted (I was told by a Funcom employee who works at MMORPG) so i don't think it's a wise idea to start discussing this again in detail.

However a brief explanation --> nazzi mods (who are by the way players, and I mean customers, not employees who play, that's another matter) leading to rage post --> ban.

 

ah, I understand.  Personally I do think almost all of these "next gen" MMOs, really do have what it takes. I think too, people though , should actually take things with a grain of salt. I did buy AoC when it first came out.

I personally didn't see much lag at all, and if i did, it's because i was running on poor settings with a Poor pc at the time. a Pc that shouldnt have even ran it, but it did. 

So honestly when i read things like this, i'm thinking to myself, are these people complaining because it really is lagging server wise? or is their pc a POS and they really don't want to admit the fact that it can't handle AoC? these are all skeptics. Same thing went for WAR and Aion.

Saw tons of people screaming about the lag. the ONLY reason the things crashed was because of how it was handled. On the server Dark Crag in WAR there was a guild by the name of Ruin. They decided to round up literally ... 1000 people between destruction and order and siege just to make the server crash. I know this happened because i was there, and i even have a Screen shot of it.

So honestly I can't help but to sit here and think it might just be the players ruining it for the other players, and not the developer.

Originally posted by SirPaco

Originally posted by -exo

Originally posted by SirPaco

it's the only problem that matters, because we are speaking of end game pvp content and there is none.

I don't think any of the veterans who suspended their accounts and came back when they heard sieges were fixed really care about the leveling curve, or the story line, or Iron Tower.

They all (and so do I) got multiple level 80 characters, some also have multipe PvP 5 characters and tell me something, if they are not interested in PVE, what do they do? They already did spend thousands of hours in world PvP, fighting for no reward in the same old zone, they already did thousands of minigames, and the sieges dont work, so what do you expect them to do? Make more videos or something?

 

The point is, if sieges don't work, people who's primary activity is PvP are bored, there is nothing to do. The frustration is beggin Fucnom to give PvP players a reason to log on...

 

Well, then i ask what suggestions are you giving them as a whole? besides complaining? All i have seen are flame threads, i haven't seen any suggestion threads. If you can show me these then you have persuaded me 100%, if not then I really don't know what to tell you but  that the fact that no one really was giving them a chance at all.

If someone can't take leadership and rally people as a whole to make suggestions to funcom and petition it, then the game is already dead. Funcom can't read minds and because they want it original I'm more then sure they do not want a "clone" of another game. Granted some similar things could be implented, but I wouldn't go into the case of adding "battlegrounds" like everyone else or "40 man raids". maybe something different that will hold your "end game" content? maybe out door world bosses?

Possibly a dungeon where players can be the boss and have a system where it is chosen at random so there isn't a way to make it as if free loot was handed out? These are just thoughts.  But honestly, if there are player suggested threads or something, I would like to see them. I have been searching for a long time for them and have found none.

 

All these suggestions have been made, and are continuously being made on the official game forums, primarly on Test Live, which can only be read by players, and on normal forums.

Here is one example of a constructive post (written by myself) 24 hours after the minigame change was introduced :

forums-eu.ageofconan.com/showthread.php  post made by myself about minigames

There are countless examples, but don't expect to read them here, these forums are for Fucom employees and friends to spam good things so that potential customers read good things about the game and want to purchase the game (or competitors to spam bullshit so they don't). Well, it's one scinical way of looking at things anyway.

FYI

forums-eu.ageofconan.com/showthread.php  post made by a friend of mine, written in cooperation with mewhile I was banned from forums about pvp in general.

or forums-eu.ageofconan.com/showthread.php this thread, which tried to constructively discuss why PvP should be a priority and received much support (check replies) from PVP and PVE players alike. All saying basically that we had enough PVE content now with the 1.06 patch and we did not need the expansion so soon if there was still no pvp content....;

not to mention the thousands of posts and threads related to why the sieges don't work and how to make them better.

So don't say the players aren't trying to be constructive, and all we do is flame.

If you don't mind me asking. why were you banned?

Originally posted by finaticd

Here are the player suggestions:  forums.ageofconan.com/forumdisplay.php

wow, ok awesome. now where's the petition?

Originally posted by finaticd

Blizzard will make another MMO sometime and it will probably be very good...they could do World of Star Craft  and own. I don't know how good it will be but KOTOR MMO from Bioware is actually trying to make the game more immersive or whatever a MMO with an actual coherent story, they seem to make good games so it will probably own but I'm not sure about end game. Then Guild wars II will probably do well do to no monthly fees and a solid PvP system for replay. If some developer makes a good game people will play it.  I havn't played Lotor but I imagine it was pretty amazing because it didn't start out strong but the population increased to a respectable level.  Unlike AoC who had great initial sales but then fizzled to an obscure level with not much added.  Wait and see if the expansion is good but I'm not sure this is recoverable.  The graphic improvements are great but they hinder development of content and limit the possibilities of a gaming engine do to high poly loads in all games. So graphics or gameplay?

AoC has been out two years so how much more time do they need ?  Funcom did invest a bit less so they could afford another MMO TSW and the expansion but if the expansion doesn't do well, they will have even less funds available so even less development funds to improve. TBH it seems as if all developers have been working on the expansion the last two years so maybe it will be good, who knows.   AoC didn't change the MMO formula in anyway, even the combat system is just chain sequences set in stone....Aion has them and warhammer has the collision detection...but they are not used in any innovative ways.

 

But that's my exact point. The game everyone wants , does not exist.

Originally posted by SirPaco

it's the only problem that matters, because we are speaking of end game pvp content and there is none.

I don't think any of the veterans who suspended their accounts and came back when they heard sieges were fixed really care about the leveling curve, or the story line, or Iron Tower.

They all (and so do I) got multiple level 80 characters, some also have multipe PvP 5 characters and tell me something, if they are not interested in PVE, what do they do? They already did spend thousands of hours in world PvP, fighting for no reward in the same old zone, they already did thousands of minigames, and the sieges dont work, so what do you expect them to do? Make more videos or something?

 

The point is, if sieges don't work, people who's primary activity is PvP are bored, there is nothing to do. The frustration is beggin Fucnom to give PvP players a reason to log on...

Well, then i ask what suggestions are you giving them as a whole? besides complaining? All i have seen are flame threads, i haven't seen any suggestion threads. If you can show me these then you have persuaded me 100%, if not then I really don't know what to tell you but  that the fact that no one really was giving them a chance at all.

If someone can't take leadership and rally people as a whole to make suggestions to funcom and petition it, then the game is already dead. Funcom can't read minds and because they want it original I'm more then sure they do not want a "clone" of another game. Granted some similar things could be implented, but I wouldn't go into the case of adding "battlegrounds" like everyone else or "40 man raids". maybe something different that will hold your "end game" content? maybe out door world bosses?

Possibly a dungeon where players can be the boss and have a system where it is chosen at random so there isn't a way to make it as if free loot was handed out? These are just thoughts.  But honestly, if there are player suggested threads or something, I would like to see them. I have been searching for a long time for them and have found none.