Originally posted by Talonsin

Originally posted by crysent

This is crazy , lol...Group finder?  My server is dead, 100% dead..I don't need a group finder, or more warzones, or more flashpoints, I need more players and until they fix that nothing else matters, nothing.

 

Yep, they need to bite the bullet and do the server merge.

I agree. Bioware needs to do this ASAP - - waiting until early summer (June 20th or later) is just too long.

"This causes a chain effect that start from the core design of the game, when rates of progression, amount of time and effort required to accomplish certain activiities is decided. Games end up being designed so that the default rate of progression or amount of repetition or attempts, or number of enemies killed, whatever activiity it has, ends up being artificially increased/slowed down in a detrimental way. "

This is the most disturbing to me. Game design that revolves around a cash shop. Having to pay more via enhancments to be allowed to play a game the way it should to begin with puts me off.

Originally posted by MindTrigger
While I was never a gold farmer or anything like that, I LOVED running a shop in that game.  It was a real revelation for me after having spent the previous 5+ years playing FPS capture the flag and deathmatch games (Doom, Quake, Unreal, Tribes, etc).  Even when I was allowed into SWG beta, I had no idea what I was signing up for having never played an MMO before.  I had no idea that my entire view of video gaming was going to be changed.  I had no idea that I was beginning a virtual life.

 

If you had told me that I was going to love, no, become obsessed with being a trader in a video game, I would have simply laughed.  All I did was shoot people, defend the flag, and I was really damned good at it.  In SWG, I loved the whole trader process.  I loved surveying and placing extraction equipment on the best resources I could find as much as I did making my rounds every few days to pick up the fruits of my labor so I could build things. I spent hours doing this, and there was also a built in element of exploration and danger from mobs. I loved chatting with friends while crafting in my "shop" which was usually a back room in one of my stores.  I left helping people find things, and taking orders for things I didn't have in stock, and selling resources I couldn't use myself.   I could go on and on.  

 

Crafting and trade wasn't some simple thing you did with a bit of time. It was a whole gameplay system that you could get lost in for days or weeks. I often did.  I would switch back and forth between my Master Weaponsmith and my combat toon, and somtimes I would just parky my combat toon for weeks and concentrate on crafting and social aspects of the game.  I made a lot of credits, met and made friends with a lot of great people, and had a blast expanding my business or buying expensive things for my combat alt. I loved decorating my homes and shops, and I loved being in a player built city that changed and evolved as our empire grew.

 

I like this article, not because of the gold farming, but because it gives you a glimpse of the depth a good, or even mediocre sandbox game can give you.  Even non-role players like me were always in a semi-state of role playing in that game, because it was the nature of it.  That's what I want back more than anything.  I want the sense of community, the emmersion, the feeling of actually living in a virtual world.  What we have now in most themepark games can't hold a candle to this in my opinion.

This. That indepth, even risky,  'simulation' content (non-combatant activities/professions) that could be added to an MMO is the glue that can a bind community together  long-term in an MMO, and I believe SWG's history attests to that. Sadly, easy internet access and the flood of 'casual' gamers with loose wallets seem to have made game developers focus on on the easy $$$$$ instead of quality gaming.

What purpose would it serve to keep closed forums up for a canceled game? I am sure there was next to zero traffic on the old O-board and $OE realized it was time to take it down.

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by fenistil

Short story :

 

SOE instead of IMPROVING current game design (working out bugs, add content ,etc ) CHANGED game design and concept.

 

That's why it ultimatelly failed.

 

Original pre-NGE concept was very good - it just was unfinished ,unpolished and bug ridden - it just needed more work.

 

Instead it got trashed and changed at it's core - this caused player's leaving and game failing.

^^^

The original design was brilliant but needed some work. What they did to destroy what could have been a great game borderlines on criminal, especially how they deceptively rolled out NGE after charging for an expansion.

That's what happens when you have a bunch of incompetent blowhards dictating a company.

Yeppers. Forcing theme park game elements of the NGE into SWG marginalized (or  entirely removed) the very exceptioanl and innovative systems SWG had. No matter what was added the last six years, the NGE was the cancer that ended SWG.

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

Originally posted by Thunderous

SWG had healthy populations?  Come on...  That's just delusional.  Where were all these imaginary people you speak of?  I'm not comparing SWG to WoW, I'm comparing SWG to SWG.

In October of 2005 SWG was still viable and had packed servers.  By January of 2006, 3 short months later, SWG was an absolute ghost town and stayed one until the end.

True story.

Sorry SNG, but I went back to SWG on nearly every vet trial, and even at the VERY END (moreso at the end) even Starsider was dead.

Really, there's no need to spin it at this point friend, it was dead, it's closure proves it. Time for you to do what all of us Pre-CU vets have been told to do for many years... move on.

I completely agree. Free game time due to the $OE hack fiasco allowed some vet returns and player alternate accounts to be active AND the free character transfer service gave the illusion that SWG was doing better. While transfers to more populated servers allowed a couple of servers to hit medium or heavvy a couple of hours a night, Starsider still had the lion's share of players. Over all, SWG just did not have the paying player population to warrant the IP license renewal costs to keep going. End of story.

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by superniceguy

If SWG comes back I am not too worried about pre-CU or CU - they are history, and has no place any more, although would be good if they replace the professions with the 32 professions though, but pre-CU or CU without all the content that was in on Dec 15th I can live with the NGE iconic 9 professions.

You're right....the CU and Pre-CU game are history and have no place any more...just like the NGE you want back so badly.

Seriously...get over it. Move on. Let it go. It's dead. Whatever you need to hear to understand that it's never coming back. It wasn't a lack of marketing that made the game fail, it was SoE.

SOE managed to keep game running for 6 years after NGE. If it was SOE the game would have been closed long ago. It was LA that killed the game with the NGE. SOE managed to provide wonders with what was left

If $OE did not allow the NGE abomination to go live (it was $OE's baby), not only would the Pre-NGE game have received loads of in-game content over the course of six years, it would have maintained a playerbase that would justify the development of further expansions too.  SWG was on six years of life support and was little more than a dev noobling/intern training program.

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Esquire1980

As the wife says, "It's dead, Jim" seeing that signature pic I copyed from these forums many years ago in fact.  It really doesn't matter anylonger, does it?  It's gone and it's not coming back.

I emailed LA saying that SWTOR is no where a good as SWG and would like it back, and they passed my feedback on to the relevant people. SWG can come back by popular demand, but if people think there is no hope and do not let LA know then it will not come back.

LOL! I don't think this will be happening ever. How well did the 'petition'  to save SWG work out after the closure announcement was made? How many even bothered to sign it?

$OE/LA  will not be bringing SWG back. it is gone - let it go.

Originally posted by fenistil

Bit of a shame that TSW will have double dipping business model.

...and that is the reason I have lost interest in this game.  I refuse to pay to play a game I will in all likelyhood have to pay more to play the way it should be already. If it was going to launch as a 'freemium' type of game where as a subscriber I have access to most if not all the items/account services in the cash shop, I may give it a second look.

No thanks to pay to pay more.

Originally posted by username509

Originally posted by hipiap

Looks like yet another in a long line of MMO's that Try to get sandbox and PvP end-Game....

 

And miss the point of being a game that Hard Core and Casual Players want to play.

You discredit yourself by not researching The Repopulation before posting.

The Repopulation features a mix of sandbox and themepark elements in order to appeal to a larger audiance, much in the same was as SWG.

On there website it's stated you don't "have" to play as a full loot open pvp game, if you choose not to.  You can flag yourself on and off if your allied with the 2 main factions, or have yourself always flagged for pvp if your in an independent "nation".  

I am happy to see that this will not be a forced PvP game, but I still do not care for the 'full loot' aspect of PvP if you do decide to play.  Such a penalty will limit the number of players that will participate. Still, the game sounds good, but will it ever become reality?

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Kazara

I doubt any profit that SWG was turning could overcome the re-licensing cost,  I am sure part of the re-licensing would have also directed a certain amount resources be dedicated to SWG (development), which would cost $OE even more $$$$.  TOR would have decimated the very small population SWG had left, which would have made SWG even more costly.  Again, there is no evidence to support that EA/LA decided that two Star Wars MMO's couldn't exist. It is just sheer speculation. Smedley felt it was time to close SWG and he made a sound financial decision. SWG just was no longer worth keeping open. 

I have stated most of the evidence in the above post, mainly the fact that Smedley/SOE alone would simply not give 6 months notice, but only a max of 3 months, and that SWG shuts down right before SWTOR launches  -Too much of a coincidence.

Also with the state of SWTOR I do not see many SWG fans ditching it for SWTOR, as all the stuff that SWG does great is not in SWTOR. Plus SWG could have gotten more attention through SWTOR. Before SWTOR released it could have been thought that people would ditch SWG for it, but now it is here I do not think people would have, no more than they would for Mass Effect or Dragon Age. SWTOR in its current state is great for a single player KOTOR/ Mass Effect game but with multiplayer options like Mass Effect 3 will have, but complete crap for a P2P MMO.

Smedley may have had an idea of the general release date of SWTOR and made the sound financial decision to close the game and give players 6 montths notice. Sure, he could have strung what players were left longer with a 3 month notice, but decided not to. You see it as some sort of coincidence, I see it as a part of Smedley's smart busines decision to close the game.

SWG was never any threat to SWTOR, but there is little doubt that many of the SWG players left were also Star Wars fans who would have decided to 'ditch' SWG to play SWTOR. SWG would not have received any significant, beneficial attention from SWTOR. The truth is, the things that SWG did great were not enough to attract and retain players. Many of the wonderful features that SWG had were removed, marginalized or nerfed due to the NGE. The closed servers, the continued hemorrhaging of players, the many dead servers and the final decision to close the game attest to the story of fail SWG was.

Keeping SWG open for the few players left was not a profitable move with the release of SWTOR and Smedley knew it.  He had stated long ago the sun setting SWG with the release of SWTOR was a possibility. I am actually surprised SWG has lasted as long as it did given the sorry state it was in.

I doubt any profit that SWG was turning could overcome the re-licensing cost,  I am sure part of the re-licensing would have also directed a certain amount resources be dedicated to SWG (development), which would cost $OE even more $$$$.  TOR would have decimated the very small population SWG had left, which would have made SWG even more costly.  Again, there is no evidence to support that EA/LA decided that two Star Wars MMO's couldn't exist. It is just sheer speculation. Smedley felt it was time to close SWG and he made a sound financial decision. SWG just was no longer worth keeping open. 

Originally posted by udon

Originally posted by Kazara

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by superniceguy

Here as said by PEX, and you even knew about it. It does not matter whether you or I consider it to be a MMO, but if they do not categorise it as a MMO, then it is not a MMO and it is quite safe, and even if that is not the case, then the game are so different, there could many other reasons why it is safe. But this argument has gotten really silly indeed, as my point is that SWG and SWTOR can not co-exsit, CWA is irrelevant

If SWG gets shut down on 4 full HEAVY servers, then so should CWA. If CWA does not get shut down, then it was not population levels that shut down SWG.

No.

I mean PROOF of your claim that there can't be 2 Star Wars MMO's. Like I said, you have none. You'll NEVER have proof to back up that assertion because it's FALSE! All I ask is that you refrain from spreading dishonesty and lies as truth.

Listen...they could claim to have had 4 "full" servers, but you and I both know that it was a FRACTION of what it once was. Given the fact that SWTOR was going to take 90% of the remaining players, I assure you, there wouldn't be enough for ONE 'full" server today if the game had lived. It was a business decision and one of the few smart ones SOE made.

I will only stop when you stop spreading lies that it is FALSE, as I could be right, there is no proof either to state that my opinion is false.

From all the evidence, I would bet all my money that it is true, that both SWG and SWTOR can not co-exist

TUX has supplied the quote from Smedley himself that this was an $OE decision to not negotiate renewing the license for SWG. Given how much SWG had died off, I actually agree with Smedley's decision. You choose not to take that comment as 'proof''. I have seen no official comment or qoute that states there was a decision that two SW MMO's games could not co-exist so SWG had to go.  In the end it really doesn't matter.....SWG is no more and blaming LA won't change that reality.

I have no doubt that LA would have renewed the license if SOE had been willing to pay the price.  But I also have little doubt that LA made the price unatractive to SOE and wasn't willing to "discount" the brand just because the game wasn't doing well.  Having SW:TOR right around the courner if anything gave them the confidence to stick to a inflated value on the brand.

It is hard to say if the licensing fee was increased or not since Smedley never entered into negotiations with LA.  I do agree that LA probably wouldn't give $OE any price break - why should it? To appease the handful of devoted SWG players left? If SWG was a truy successful MMO that turned a good profit, Smedley would have entered into negotiations. He is all about $$$$. . Obviously Smedley realized SWG wasn't worth the licensing fee and decided to close the game. 

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by superniceguy

Here as said by PEX, and you even knew about it. It does not matter whether you or I consider it to be a MMO, but if they do not categorise it as a MMO, then it is not a MMO and it is quite safe, and even if that is not the case, then the game are so different, there could many other reasons why it is safe. But this argument has gotten really silly indeed, as my point is that SWG and SWTOR can not co-exsit, CWA is irrelevant

If SWG gets shut down on 4 full HEAVY servers, then so should CWA. If CWA does not get shut down, then it was not population levels that shut down SWG.

No.

I mean PROOF of your claim that there can't be 2 Star Wars MMO's. Like I said, you have none. You'll NEVER have proof to back up that assertion because it's FALSE! All I ask is that you refrain from spreading dishonesty and lies as truth.

Listen...they could claim to have had 4 "full" servers, but you and I both know that it was a FRACTION of what it once was. Given the fact that SWTOR was going to take 90% of the remaining players, I assure you, there wouldn't be enough for ONE 'full" server today if the game had lived. It was a business decision and one of the few smart ones SOE made.

I will only stop when you stop spreading lies that it is FALSE, as I could be right, there is no proof either to state that my opinion is false.

From all the evidence, I would bet all my money that it is true, that both SWG and SWTOR can not co-exist

TUX has supplied the quote from Smedley himself that this was an $OE decision to not negotiate renewing the license for SWG. Given how much SWG had died off, I actually agree with Smedley's decision. You choose not to take that comment as 'proof''. I have seen no official comment or qoute that states there was a decision that two SW MMO's games could not co-exist so SWG had to go.  In the end it really doesn't matter.....SWG is no more and blaming LA won't change that reality.

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

(and somwewhat proud of it)

who else didn't touched that POS $OE thought at us that was NGE ?

I am a pure PRE - NGE'r and my respect goes to pure PRE CU 'r  who even didn't touched and resisted even the CU.

 

 

That is a shame, you missed out big time. You can not call it a POS if you never played it, and the NGE ended up being awesome in the end. To base an opinion off of others is nothing to do be proud of.

As for the sig - you never won, as  both SW MMOs could not run side by side, and SWTOR won by default. If SWG stayed active and then bombed with the release of SWTOR and then closed then you would have won, but if SWG did not close I reckon people would have left SWTOR and started playing SWG, killing SWTOR. Most posts I see on the official forums is from people negatively criticising SWTOR, even ones who did not like/play SWG. I do not see people playing SWTOR much after 6 months, if that.

SWTOR will be great and all and give a better experiemnce than SWG, but will be short lived. SWGs systems kept you hooked for eternity. I could never see myself quitting SWG, even after playing it solidly from July 2003. I can not see myself playing SWTOR after a few months

Also SOE is not solely responsible for the NGE, it was LA who are the main culprits, as they were the ones who agreed on it. SW is LAs IP and baby, not SOEs. If SOE solely were responsible, then LA would have sued SOE and/or pulled the SW licence from SOE and SWG would have shut down in 2006 or 2007.

If you avoided SWG NGE then you will need to avoid SWTOR as well.

I played the NGE and it was a POS.

The mass exodus of SWG players since the NGE went live, the closing of half the servers and then the decision to completely close SWG  attest to the epic  fail the NGE was. Sure, there were some players that thought it was great, but they are clearly the minority by far. $OE has more than earned the horrible reputation it has and denial will not change that reality.

Originally posted by blbeta

I honestly don't think they will make a new AC.  For year I have been hoping for a reimagined Asheron's Call and Planetside.  1 out of 2 ain't bad.

The odds are worse. Planetside 2 is an $OE endeavor, which increases the failure odds exponentially.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/posts/list.m?topic_id=1243376

On Tuesday, December 13, 2011, at 4:00 a.m. PST all U.S. and European galaxies will be brought down for an update. The servers are estimated to be down for 4 hours. If this timeframe changes, we'll post an update on the official forums.

When the update is complete, all galaxies will be live but unavailable while we complete final testing. All galaxies will be made available after that time.

Preparations for December 15th

• Jabba’s event on Tatooine near the Sarlacc Pit will start as soon as the Galactic Civil War score is frozen Wednesday, December 14, 2011, at 9:00 p.m. PST.
• The other 3 events on Endor (SW of the Research Outpost near 700, -4500, in the Nub Shanda GCW Contested Zone), Corellia Coronet, and Naboo Theed will start when the servers are restarted Thursday, December 15, 2011, at 4:00 a.m. PST.

Even as a F2P game, DCUO isn't worth the download time and HD space on my PC.

Originally posted by mlambert890

Originally posted by Beauman

Well, I played the game for 9 months (mainly due to lack of options--- after 6 1/2 years in CoH and 5 years in WoW, I was done with both games; and CO never held me for too long).

I gave my opinion in another thread.

Your milage may vary.

 

Your opinion in the other thread was spot on IMO.  Im amazed you made it 9 months.  I made it like 2 before realizing the game was mind numbing.

 

The best thing about DCUO, IMO, is that u can literally see the entire game inside of a free trial.  Now that it is free, Id say everyone should just take a couple of weeks and max out a character or two just to experience it, and then just leave it behind.

 

Only a *very* specific kind of niche player (the type who HATES Leveling and "BS fluff" and *only* wants to "get to max level" and then 'grind gear" to pimp "gearscore" or "win PVP") will find much to like long term in DCUO.

 

Its a shame because it is such a shallow game tied to such an important IP.

Very well said.