Originally posted by SAHARAHSTORM

waiting three weeks is blasphemy ;P 

Nah, patience is logical.;)

 Where do you grade this movie and why?

I give it a B. It was a fun and enjoyable experience and has obviously re-invigorated the franchise. The only reason I give it a B instead of an A is because of the fact it's a reboot. 

Originally posted by Anubisan

It seems like people need to come to grips with reality in that this game is NOT going to provide the same sort of player housing experience seen in SWG.

I don't care if lots of you loved it. No amount of whining is going to drastically alter Bioware's intentions at this point... nor should it. As much as I loved both UO and SWG, I did not enjoy the sprawl of player housing that virtually covered almost every open space on the game world. That is NOT immersive and it detracts heavily from my enjoyment of the game... I know there are many people who feel the same.

It seems like a lot of you SWG lovers are forgetting that it is still running. If you really want your SWG-style player housing and your crafting, please go back and play that game. TOR is NOT going to be the game you want it to be.

I said the exact thing a page or so ago and some of them got their knickers in a twist. TOR isn't going to be anything like SWG.Anyone with half the common sense of a cow  is able to come to that conclusion.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by ktanner3 

By all means point to the people who are saying they want to be left alone and never interact with other people. I'm waiting. ....
 

 

They are right over there, but you can't see them behind the crowd of people who think the whole playerbase should be forced to interact with them.

 

Sorry for the sarcasm, but lets not take things to the extreme ok? 

I answered an extreme with an extreme. Is that okay with you?

 Just got back from the theater and it was a packed house. Pretty good for a third weekend. 

http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1611063/story.jhtml

Looks like they are already planning the sequal.

Originally posted by mackdawg19

Bleh who cares how big the ST movie is, it will do great. Most trekkie fans I have talked to including my mom loved the movie. The ones I know that didn't like the movie, didn't like ST to begin with. T4 and Night at the Museum will be the top movies this weekend and next weekend with the new Land of the Lost being the first top movie come the first weekend in June. It really doesn't matter if it's a top movie though, it only really matters if you like it or not. Critics are just that, critics. People who are paid to over analzye a movie because they are paid to. Sometimes I wonder if they can ever enjoy any movie. I will enjoy ST and T4 and NatM along with LotL. Take care and just enjoy watching movies and be glad you didn't have to watch the movie through some acient 1800 slide projection casing.

That's pretty much the reaction I've been seeing from most fans. They love having Star Trek back on the screen and people that never watched Star Trek in the first place are eating this one up. I'm going today to see it a second time with a few friends of mine. I've never seen this kind of performance from any film in the franchise so this is a nice change from the days of "Nemesis." The fact that Star Trek is holding its own during the summer is a welcome first.

T4 is getting shellacked by the critics though I doubt it could be worse than T3 was.I'll wait for word of mouth before seeing that one. Land of the Lost just looks silly and I'm not a big fan of Will Ferral.

Originally posted by AgtSmith

Originally posted by ktanner3

Far as your other criteria about it "having legs", no Star Trek film ever did what you are demanding of this one. Trek has never had a movie that dominated a summer. In fact, Trek usually came out in the winter season because it was never good enough to compete in the summer. The mere fact that this one has already trounced "Wolverine" and is now surpassing Angels and Demons is very impressive. With the negative reviews I've been seeing for the latest Terminator movie, don't be surprised if Trek finishes a close second for the memorial day weekend. 

 

 

First, it is way to early to say it will gross over 300 mil, it may well top off at mid 200 Mil with the 3rd weekend decline, week foreign take, and T4 as competition this weekend.  Second, I clearly pointed out the context in which I was making that statement with the top three ST movies prior to JJ's ST raking in 3 to 1 or higher in terms of budget to gross.  Whatever ST tops out at it is not going to be anywhere near those in profit to cost and that is an important consideration.  Kahn brought in 11 times its budget in gross, Voyage Home 4 times its budget in gross, First Contact was 3 times its budget.  JJ's ST might not even bring in a 1:1 return on its budget.  The point being that the old ST they so willingly tossed aside to make way for JJ's ST was pretty good, until the last couple, at bringing in a good ROI.  

 

Again, we shall see this weekend, if ST holds where it was for last weekend it could be on its way to being a $300 Mil gross but if it tapers off another 40% to 60% it is unlikely it will end up grossing more than $260/$270 Mil (remember how weak ST is oversees, this film and traditionally ST is substantially weaker worldwide than other such films - this ST around low 30% of gross in foreign with most such movies around mid 40%).  Currently ST is around $238 Mil WW which means it is likely to need to or more weekends at its current take to approach $300+ Mil and the likelihood is this weekend will drop off half or more from last weekend and next weekend perhaps the same again.  Spending $150-$160 Mil to make JJ's ST and bringing in WW $250 to $280 Mil is a success but far from a blockbuster is all I am saying.  In the end, ST is likely to net not much more than good ST movies of old (not even adjusted for inflation and ticket prices).

 

Originally posted by ktanner3

Based on your own criteria, this latest Star Trek movie is the most profitable of them all. It cost $150 million to make and will end up grossing more than $300 million.Even factoring in inflation for the other films won't make a difference. This one is the most profitable. 

 

The Box Office Mojo site had an interesting comment saying that this ST is the "fifth biggest Star Trek movie, adjusted for ticket price inflation".  Surely it has more money to earn but it is likely to taper off dramatically over this weekend and next weekend.  So having a $150-$160 budget and well through its likely best weeks it is only 5th all time (about dead middle) in ST movies and we are to believe this is a raging blockbuster? 

 

And FYI - ST its first day (a Thursday) did $4 Mil (est) according to Box Office Mojo, T4 has clocked in 13.4 Mil on its first day (yesterday).  I think this weekend will show ST diving and ending up much more like Wolverine (a profitable movie) in the end.  ST kind of got luck it had no genre competition in that second weekend and it made the most of it, but this weekend that changes with T4.

 

Oh brother. Wolverine was a crappy movie that tanked it's second weekend. It isn't even in the same ballpark as Star Trek is right now.
 

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Most people would say that this film is a blockbuster. I highly doubt it will have any trouble reaching $300 million dollars. Of course T4 will hit big.It should be the number one movie of the holiday weekend being that it's the new release of the weekend and based off a popular franchise. But based off the horrible reviews and word of mouth I'm hearing, let's see how big it is shall we?And I still guarantee Star Trek having a strong THIRD weekend. Where is Wolverine again? Oh that's right. No one cares anymore.

This is what you said

"My point here is that ST surely will set higher grosses than previous ST films but when you factor in inflation and higher ticket sales and the ratio of budget to gross it is likely to not even be one of the top three most profitable ST films. How much you make overall is important for sure, but how much you make in relation to how much you spend is also very important, if not more important, especially as the franchise goes forward long term."

Based on your own criteria, this latest Star Trek movie is the most profitable of them all. It cost $150 million to make and will end up grossing more than $300 million.Even factoring in inflation for the other films won't make a difference. This one is the most profitable.

Far as your other criteria about it "having legs", no Star Trek film ever did what you are demanding of this one. Trek has never had a movie that dominated a summer. In fact, Trek usually came out in the winter season because it was never good enough to compete in the summer. The mere fact that this one has already trounced "Wolverine" and is now surpassing Angels and Demons is very impressive. With the negative reviews I've been seeing for the latest Terminator movie, don't be surprised if Trek finishes a close second for the memorial day weekend.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Most people complaining about housing are doing so based on extreme examples without even considering the possibility that there is a middleground anywhere.

SWG urban sprawl was out of control for sure, but that was the design of the game.  Almost limitless freedom to develop the world.  Even with the massive amounts of player structures on the landscape, it was very interesting to go to player run areas.  There was a sense of realism going to someones house in the middle of a planet.  Players could interact without the entire area of housing.  No one was forced to do that, but it was available.

Instanced apartments are almost the complete opposite of the extreme (aside from no housing).  Instanced apartments really only provide private space for players to hide from the game world.  Zoning is not a very immersive game mechanic and neither is a group of people all living behind the same door of inn and having to scroll through a list of names to find someones "apartment".  I also feel that the whole instanced apartment detracts from a healthy community.  It is just private space for players to hide in.  There is no feeling of your neighborhood and no reason to interact with the person who lives behind the same instanced door as you.  It is just one more area for players to remove themselves from the game world.

 

Somewhere in between those two examples is a decent middle ground that would most likely please both sides.  Be it something like vanguard with predefined areas in the actual world where players can build houses which leaves the rest of the world untouched.  Maybe it is something like lotro (I'm not familiar at all with this so correct me if I am wrong), instanced areas with housing plots.  Maybe a combination of several things or something new.  As long as it addresses the few issues that housing can bring in, then it will be a benefit to the game. 

 

No one is asking that players should be forced to interact with the community, but at the same time it begs the question of why play an mmo if all you want to do is be alone.  The only thing that seperates mmos from single players games is community and group activities. 

By all means point to the people who are saying they want to be left alone and never interact with other people. I'm waiting. ....
 

Originally posted by Murashu

Originally posted by ktanner3

And I will never understand people who play MMO's and think the whole playerbase should be forced to interact with them.

 

Who says you are forced to interact? People are asking for choices and by removing player housing you are removing choice. You can choose to interact with the community or go about playing your single player game with a chat room, either way you have a choice.

SWG had problems with lag and it has housing, the two must be linked! Oh wait...EVE has problems with lag and it doesn't have housing. Ever been to the banks/AH in WoW? No player housing but it's laggy as hell lol.

Okay, don't parse my statment and make it into something it was not . Right after that was " See, I can hyperbole too." That was in reply to the stupid comment that being against player housing equals being against player interaction. I just answered a hyperbole with a hyperbole.

In all my time playing SWG, I rarely ran into a person inside one of those structures. Usually that person was either offline or off doing something else in game. Most player interaction was done at the starports where people gathered to grind or inside the cantinas. No one here is asking for those not to be put in game so enough with the drama queen antics. Most people just don't like player housing because it is nothing more than a useless time sink and lag creator. It doesn't do diddly squat for improving player interaction because most players aren't spending time there.

Originally posted by AgtSmith

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

 

You do of course realize that the image you provided highlights the fact that Trek had a lower drop than Iron Man and thus simply furthers my point.

You do...right? Trek is scaling right now for about a 3.3-3.5 multiplier. That's above Iron Man's 3.12 multiplier and should put Trek within 280-300M region domestic. That's damned good for a reboot. Actually, that's past damned good, that's the best we've ever seen from a reboot period handily beating out Batman Begins, Superman Returns, and Casino Royale.

 

Yes, the first weekend dropoff compares well with Ironman but ST was substantially lower in its first weekend and with the likely dropoff this weekend and STs lower foreign take it is unlikely the coming weeks will bring in the kind of dollars you are suggesting.  Remember last weekend (Sts 2nd weekend) only saw Davinci part 2 as competition, this coming week (STs third) has T4 to deal with so I suspect ST will show another steep decline leaving it unlikely to come very close to Ironman though it will likely end up decently 'profitable'.

 

Just out of curiosity I went and look at the three top grossing ST movies to see how this ST is stacking up ...

 

Star Trek: Voyage Home (the whale one) - gross WW $109 mil - budget $27 mil

Star Trek: Wrath of Khan - gross WW $78 mil - budget $11 mil

StarTrek: First Contact - gross WW $146 mil - budget $47 mil

 

My point here is that ST surely will set higher grosses than previous ST films but when you factor in inflation and higher ticket sales and the ratio of budget to gross it is likely to not even be one of the top three most profitable ST films.  How much you make overall is important for sure, but how much you make in relation to how much you spend is also very important, if not more important, especially as the franchise goes forward long term.

 

Star Trek(2009)-gross WW $231,034,778 million after only two weeks-budget  $150 million.For  Wednesday alone it grossed more than Angels and Demons, which just came out.  By any reasonable measure,like it or not, this movie is a success.
 

Originally posted by Murashu

Originally posted by Moirae 

I never said player housing, I said housing where they can create player cities and so destroy the landscape. EQ2 has zoning housing so it doesn't ruin the landscape. LOTRO has housing zones that you zone into where a play can place their house and so have their own yard as well as their own house that you get to by zoning into the AREA and so you have neighbors.

 Players should not be able to create player cities. There is no reason that we can do something like zone into different instances of an apartment building or just plain different rooms.

 Its better that way.

 

Many people play MMO's because they want to play in a world that they can have an impact on and having in game housing/cities that can be seen by other players is part of that impact. Instancing apartment buildings would just make the game feel more like a single player game with a chat room.

I will never understand why so many people play MMO's then complain because they have to see or interact with other people.

And I will never understand people who play MMO's and think the whole playerbase should be forced to interact with them.See, I too can hyperbole. 
 

An instanced building would do much to reduce the lag that happens when you have a bunch of people in one area with all their junk. LAst I heard, SWG STILL has a problem with urban sprawl and it still has problems with lag. Been that way ever since they allowed player housing. And if you like interaction then you should love the fact that he is proposing designated areas for people to live in. I see much more room for interaction in an apartment building than in a house plopped down in the middle of nowhere.

Originally posted by BaronJuJu

Originally posted by tillamook

And failed. I think the last one they delived on was Secrets of Siren which was still filled with the same old fetch missions. it wasn't bad, but pretty drawn out. I don't get why some vets don't want Story in TOR when some of them were the same ones crying over lack of story arc in SWG on the forums. I guess they would rather have nothing to do?

Anyways I hope the story arcs in TOR are actually good and they get finished unlike in SWG. This 4th pillar BioWare is selling is nothing new really, just the delivery is. It may be you actually end up buying some stories thru MT like EQ2 or some crap, we shall see.

 

 

I look back and wonder why they even tried to do story arcs during that time period (Ep 4-6). It wasn't like we were actually going to effect a known story line or plot by doing these missions. Then to top it off then ended it within months of launching...one of the main features they touted for folks to buy the game initially. If the timeline had been set post Episode 6 then fine, no rules or anything. Hell build a third Deathstar for us to defend or destroy.

I think the lightbulb clicked on at Bioware and that why they set it in that timeperiod. You have a well know background witha time period no one has written about. Its pretty much and open book that can go in any direction.

As far as SWG's attempts...Crappy missions with a well known outcome = pointless gameplay.

You hit the nail right on the head. If we already know what happens then what's the point of playing? Setting a MMO during the Empire Strikes Back was SOE's first mistake.
 

Originally posted by CazNeerg

Originally posted by Theocritus

Originally posted by DeaconX

I'm declaring it right here.  If I'm wrong I'll be wrong but I stand confident that TOR will indeed be the most incredible MMORPG ever created.

 

       I hope you're correct but the Star Wars fan base seems to be one of the most difficult to please.......

 

The Star Wars fan base, or the SWG fan base?  Nowhere close to the same thing.  In regard to the actual Star Wars fan base, those who have played KotOR seem almost universally satisfied, so that is a good sign.

Exactly. Most  fans like myself never considered SWG a true representation of Star Wars. That's why most of them left.
 

Originally posted by Moirae

Originally posted by Unive

Originally posted by Moirae

They already said that the starting class is a Jedi, dear. Go to the official site and read about it.

 

And no, the fundamental difference is that its one of the best gaming companies in the world that are known for how fantastic their emotionally involving stories really are that sets this game apart. They are going to do something no other game has done before. They are going to make it so that every single choice you make effects your story. You start out neutral just like you did in the original KOTOR,its your choices that you light or dark side. From the sounds of it, every single choice you make is going to effect your future options.

 

This means that, while you will always have a choice between good, neutral, and evil, it will probably mean that each npc will have several different possible story lines depending on your former choices.

 

This is NOT a sandbox MMO, but it IS an MMO where you finally have a choice and really do effect the story.

 

They are even talking about having several different beginnings. Not every single beginning will be the same like in every other MMO.

 

Choice, its what we all have wanted.

 

Firstly, yeah I agree bioware is a freaking amazing company for producing story. But reading quest text only takes a game to far. If I even for a moment feel like I am playing a space age WoW I will be gone quicker than shit. I do not want my hand held, I want to allocate my stats, I want the choice to make a difference in the GAME not to my personal character.

Actually screw all that, I just want some FREEDOM in a game.  Play housing, player cities, Give us things to do that very few or zero people have done. NO INVISIBLE WALLS, no mountains that can be climbed on one planet but magically on the other planet a magical barrier prevents you from doing such a task. I WANT FREEDOM to do what I want and no the same old cookie cutter linear path that everyone else takes to get to the ultimate end.

With all that said, no I am not implying this game will be a cookie cutter linear game, I am simply saying I hope the game play combat system and world is as AMAZING as Bioware's storytelling ability.

Then why are you interested in this game? Just because it has the title of star wars? Have you never played KOTOR? Its a fantastic game. One of the absolute best. And yet, thats exactly what you are in, a cage. You are led around by the nose. And yet it doesn't feel like it.

 

Take a chill pill. You will not get player cities and good riddance. Those things destroyed the SWG landscape. Tatooine is NOT supposed to be nothing but urban sprawl, sorry.

 

I have no objection to them creating a zoning apartment building in order to keep the landscape clean.

 

If you want SWG, then go play SWG. This isn't the game you are looking for.

Well said. If they want player housing then they can go play SWG. It's still there and has most of what they are bitching about.
 

Originally posted by Vrazule

I thought it was a good movie and I definitely liked it better than Star Trek The Motion Picture.  Lord knows the series could use some real hunks in the leading roles, thanks to Chris Pines and Zachary Quinton, DELICIOUS!

Well gee, watching grass grow is just as exciting as watching Star Trek the Motion Picture. That's not exactly a lofty standard in the mold of the Godfather. Star Trek is the only franchise where the FIRST movie was actually considered the worse.

My only complaint as a soft core Trekkie is the constant time travel themes.  Please, something different next time, thanks.

Yes. After Edith Keeler,the Guardian of Forever, the slingshot around the sun, the Borg transwarp conduit and countless resets I'm a little tired of Time Travel as well.

By the way, you can blame the canon changes because of the change in the time line.  Since the Romulans traveled back before Kirk ever joined the academy, it changed everything proceeding the event, including his character since his dad was never around to mold him like he would have if the time line hadn't been completely screwed.

Very true. My biggest concern now is the prequals just regurgitating stuff like Khan and Tribbles. They need to keep bringing in new adversaries while showing maybe a hint here or there of what we've seen already. Unless you can pull a Heath Ledger act with Khan, I'd leave that character alone.

We're talking about the same guy who approved the NGE. It breaks down like this: If it has the chance to make him a few bucks, George is for it. His artistic integrity died a long time ago and was replaced by the need for green.The fans who write the novels or work on the games will have to pick that mantle up and do it for themselves. I think Bioware put a good spin on it in the Knights of the Old Republic games and I'm sure that will be carried over here.

Who is Gorge Lucus?

The differences:

One was made by a company with a horrible reputation, the other is being made by a company with a great reputation

One was broken and never fixed, the other will most likely be more stable and playable

One had a skill based system that allowed for alpha templates and confusion, the other is more rigid where we know a bounty hunter when we see one and gives atttention to ALL classes.

One didn't stay true to the IP, the other will

One penalized you for wearing armour the other won't

One made every action in the game tedious the other won't make you stand in lines just to play the game.

One game catered more towards people who like to chat while the other caters towards people who want to actually play

One tried to creat a virtual world with a Star Wars Sim while the other is trying to make a game that is actually fun to play

etc.

etc.