the amount of failure here is funny as heck....

Talk about a better rat trap.Here you have a sinking ship,and the rats are convincing some people to board it for the "fun" of bailing water..........

sheesh, you people are scary.....

Now, EA has reported that its total investment in the "Star Wars" MMO has reached $80 million in development alone.

So its put a hell of a lot more than $80 into this product so far....And then thinking a box that sells for $50 gets EA $50........

What id rather, is that they didnt hold out "what the game could be" to try and sell what the game is.Enron based marketing is not a good thing....

Soooooo, "free fly" space combat.....Lets see if i got the gist of their line on this.....

IF you buy the game and give them a ton of feedback,they will  listen and it could get added...

BUT since there was already huge feedback before the release asking for it,and many many forum posts saying the "tunnel " implementation was a major drawback in the posters opion,and that didnt manage to change their minds yet.....

It sure comes off as a "buy our product and we will surely listen to you, even though we havent in the past" kind of sales pitch.Which suggests they understand this is considered a weak point in their game, but that they are NOT quite willing to change it yet,or ever.

BUT are more than happy to give the impression they might, as long as it drives sales.....

I really like the way the rifts work, while far from perfect they were at least fun.BUT the size and spread was too small i thought.

I like large choatic battles,and even in the case of the multiple rifts and rift bosses,the numbers of invaders were just too small to satisfy.Now someone told me they upped the spawn per stage at the rifts since the beta,im curious if this is accurate.....

I havent had a bad rift experience yet.The times that 6 or more rifts open and all send out mob groups that try to converge on one location are very fun infact.The more that manage to converge,the more fun.

They could make it better,by spawning larger mob groups.And make the mobs a bit more independant,so the battles are more chaotic,instead of the mob groups running as one to the target of the moment.If as i said, they made the mobs more indepedant ,so they spread out and attacked more players at a given time at a given location,instead of focusing on one or two players,it would be even more fun.

That level 20 town quest hub gets attacked by multiple rifts alot.

Theres a huge potential for amazingly fun chaotic battles here,they are sooooooo close to getting this to where it should be......

So basically they took the old shadowbane "npcs do your crafting for you", and expanded it .....

This growing trend to have the computer play parts of the game for the player is fairly funny to me,And its not just in mmos.Its hard for me to decide if its just a case of the games (or parts of) being just that bad by the players perspective that they choose not to play them,but still want the "rewards" of  having done so,or a case of just how incredibly lazy the people are becoming.

Following standard mmo industry  practices,the final stage of the  pay to play beta will begin sometime after the game goes retail.

if youve got the time and or the link, id really like to see that movie.

This type of feature is VERY high on my list, and one ive waited for,for years.Such a feature would be enough for me to overlook other weaknesses and give a game a go.

It seems to me im seeing alot of hype....

"you never know where the rifts wil open","world under constant threat","no one is safe"....

So are we going to see rifts open everywhere in the game ?Towns,cities,inside other mob zones... etc...

Are we finally going to see mobs that actually are a threat to the towns,killing off npcs and capturing and or razing towns ?Will i be fighting at one mobs location and have the possiblity a rift will open right there by pure chance and spew out more and different mobs totally unrelated to the ones im fighting ?

Can i travel to town only to find a rift or three have opened in it, the npcs i came to see are dead,and more are dying as i watch ?

If not,than all the "talk " used to build atmosphere and sell the game ,is just that, talk.......hype.....

@zym

Ive heard this same inane stance before,took some time to remember from where.You read lassi's crap and  actually bought it.He couldnt sell it to any but the braindead ,what circa 5 years ago....But you sure latched onto it

Hahahhahhahahhahhhahahhaaha.

Wow.....

Did you just cut and paste from his article,or actually really use wikipedia as a "reliable source" ?You know, like he did.

Again far too funny.

Oh wait, you couldnt have used the wikipedia,at least not recently as they changed that whole article , and instead went with something far more accurate.

"The term sandbox refers more to the mechanics of a game and how, as in a physical sandbox, the user is entertained by their ability to play creatively, boundless of artificial structural constraints, and with there being "no right way ".

Whats next, gonna try and sell us some "wisdom" on mmo design from Smed,Troop,Godager,McQauid,Garriot,or any other number of the MMO industry failures ?

Regurgitation,its what makes the MMO industry the absolute crap it is.And keeps it that way.And your doing your part arent you ...

Hhahahhahahhahahahah

By definition all MMOs are sandboxes.

What an absolute brainless bit of crock.Break a definition down past its outmost minimum, and then everything you want can qaulify for it.

"A Chair is a thing that can be sat on "-new definition for a chair,now horses and cats qaulify as chairs.And of course get some puffed up "expert" to explain why this bit of rubbish opinion claimed as THE definition is better then any others........and be sure he references some authority on why he's right,instead of simply using logic and reason  lol

Its amazing,most games actually work to raise a persons reasoning ability,but so many die hard mmo fans seem to actually show continued loss of such.....Its like they get dumber by the day.

A sandbox is one of the ultimate representations of free spirited play.You sit it and play with and make of it what ever you want that you can.You dont need someone telling you to build a sand castle before you can do so.You dont need to be told where your allowed to build said castle,YOU pick the spot in the sandbox, and you do it as you please.

The more restrictions on your actions an mmo throws at you, the less sandbox it is.The more guided your actions are in an mmo, the more themepark it is.There is of course no perfection.No perfect example of either,and none possible.But to seize an elephants leg and define it as a tree trunk,is about as well thought out as claiming  "all mmos are sandboxs".

A very small ,but very important bit of wisdom when dealing with such...."The word is NOT the thing".In other words ,neither one nor a hundred morons calling a cat a chair,make  a cat a chair,OR all mmos sandboxs .

Its all a false argument foisted on us by inept dev teams.

MMO's dont have to be sandbox or themepark,they can be both.Its just the dev teams suck so bad they cant even handle making one of the types decently,let alone having the brains and skill to combine them.

An MMO should have areas where civilization is in charge, and these areas should be themepark oriented.In addition an MMO should also have fringes,areas where there is little to no civilization and the player can choose to operate there,experiencing a sandbox setting.

The two areas should interact and affect each other.For instance, a leader in a civilized theme park section should sponsor players to go into the fringes sandbox area and try an establish settlements in his name etc...,that the player would run for him til the player gained independence or acquired higher rank than the leader.

And the sandox fringes area,should have factions that have goods and make deals that the civiliazed themepark section requires.And areas to really explore with things of real worth to be found.

AND BOTH should be able to change into the other.Perhaps a themepark civilization areas mines dry up,making the population move from it turning it into a fringe sandbox area.OR perhaps a new mine or civilization center gets founded in a fringe sandbox area,bringing with it population and interest groups that make the fringe area a civilization area.

The mmo worlds should have areas no player can even reach by the end of the first year of its play.And lots of new places and things to discover.And expansions should bring with them new areas,that can again take large amounts of realtime to even reach,let alone fully explore.

Instead we get incredibly crappy unfinished light versions  that cant even accomplish one setting type adequately.Its the complete failure on the dev teams part that creates these false arguments.They dont have the skill or work ethic to do something, so we end up thinking we have to make a bad choice......which we really shouldnt have to make.

Yet another prime example of why the MMO industry and its products are total crap.The same old failures just keeping creeping back in...

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by skeaser

That's a true statement, however, I would venture that if a company actually decided to go all out on every aspect of an MMO they'd grab subs like crazy.

I agree.

But,its not that simple.Going all out would have to  include actually having and employing work ethic and skill.The current teams havent shown they have either capability.Taking a code monkey and calling him a "designer" doesnt make him one.

Biowares statements about there being no point to MMOs is pretty much spot on.They are currently "entertainment" for the brain dead,at best.But thats only one among many flaws in MMOs.And partially fixing that one by adding story,is the equivilant to fixing one of the four flat tires on a car thats been repeatedly hit  head on by a train.

What about MMORPG.coms other requirements for such a position ?

You know:

*Treat fluff interviews as "news"
-What dev X ate for breakfast
-treating the normal press release, that people who nothing about the game could have written with the same accuracy,as containing ground breaking news about ground breaking features
-What the devs favorite color is
-how many subscibers are needed to pay his porshe payment for the month

*Remembering, the advertiser is always right .

*Willingness to review dead games, and do "return to X" pieces

*Ability to wear blinders

*Knowledge of the "proper" hero worship to be shown for Dev teams
-When to bow and when to curtsy
-Which finger is the right one to kiss when theres no ring there
-what esle to kiss.....

Etc...

:P

The "entitlement" strawman is rather funny.Those pushing it make it sound like the customers want some socialist  welfare program from the devs.

That the poor poor devs should have to provide an acceptable product for the money they are paid for said product,is painted as the customers "feeling entitled" to something  beyond reason.Its like its fine and dandy the devs turn out crap thats so badly made,its actually deleted some customers windows boot ini. in one MMO's case.

The whining and begging from the devs for more time and more money while they "finish" the product ( as in get it to the status they promised it would be at for launch) they sold as retail months back is only growing.Good ole brads begging for more time and money was hilarious.As is the constant "under new management" anouncements and moves as the devs continually scurry from one failed product to the next.

Wanting to get a product worth  the money you were charged for it is NOT an " attitude of entitlement",its the simple basic fair mindedness modern society is based on.But of course that simple truth shows the devs and their crap products for what they are, and so the MMO dev apologists cant let themselves grasp it.

What a suprise ! Another pity the poor devs thread by the site whos bread is buttered by the advertising and "interviews" they get from the devs.Im shocked i tell ya ! Shocked !

And people,dont artificially seperate the devs into "workers" and "suits".Its a false seperation.Both the workers (artists coders,etc) and the suits (pr men,money men,etc.) are on the same team.They are ALL responsible for the product the company tries to sell.

If one part of the dev team fails to do its job, they ALL fail.They have a choice on who they work for, and they make that choice to be part of that team.They have a choice to be honest and refuse to stay quiet when the company turns out crap, and they choose to stay silent.The money man is as much a "dev" as the coder.And deserves as much blame when the product is crap.Its a complete team.And they pass or fail as such.

The solution is for the devs to stop turning out crap.It should come as NO suprise that people who receive a product they are satisfied with,for their money,are generally VERY pleasant customers.Sadly,the current dev teams couldnt turn out a qaulity product if they were given a finished one on a silver platter.This IS becuase they would take it and screw it up to high heaven.They can't help themselves.Incompetence ALWAYS find a way to shine thru.And there simply isnt a competent team currently out there among the big names.

With wow being the exception,for despite all they do wrong, they at least manage to attract and hold their customers in large numbers.

Just more of the same,reinforcing the thought that biowares only real hope here,is story.That limiting what a char can do by class,ever became the norm is a real shame.That people bought into the whole "break all the skills into groups, and only allow certain "classes" of characters to do certain things,as if is was some kind of advancement of the system is a bigger shame.

Mage:Hey fighter man,why are you just staring at that chest ?

Fighter:Well, because im not a thief i cant open it ..........

Mage: How about that door over there ?

Fighter: Nah man,its locked an hence i cant open it either......

Mage:When did you become such a one dimensional character ,that you cant perfom basic skills,because they are "outside your class" ?

Fighter: sobbing... i dont know man... sobbing .. I really dont know....

The whole thing just proves you can convince someone of just about anything....no matter how inane

Please.If they cant do their jobs, and it appears very much so they cant,then they deserve every complaint they get.

The only thing stupider than a pitty party for the poor devs who turn out crap after crap,is the people trying to tell others the devs dont deserve to be held accountable for the product they sold.And thats all it is a product.Unfortunately for them, its a piss poor product.But thats their fault.NOT OURS.

Ive never in the 5 decades ive been on this earth,seen an industry so inept, and yet have so many foolish people keep saying "Its not their fault" ,"cut them some slack",etc..

There isnt a  "AAA" single dev team in the industry right now that deserves to be payed for the product they delivered.wow is of course the exception, and NOT becuase it was quality,but becuase it at least manages to make a decent amount of the industries prospective customers happy enough that they continue to pay for the product.

Every MMO dev out there right now could become shoe salesmen, and the only people that would suffer ,would be the people who needed to buy shoes.The total absence of the devs would actually even improve the MMO industry, as  even though the product would not improve,at least the customers wouldnt have to listen to their crying and excuses anymore for why the product is still crap.

To all the devs at Sony,Cryptic,Funcom,Turbine,Mythic,NCSoft,etc.... PLEASE find another industry to work in.There IS something out there you DONT suck at.Your litterally killing the MMO industry.PLEASE, leave it and find that one your not a liability too.

Most of us,including you, will be happier in the long run after you do.