Trending Games | Magerealm | Continent of the Ninth Seal | Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn | Guild Wars 2

    Facebook Twitter YouTube Twitch.tv
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,996,379 Users Online:0
Games:841  Posts:6,462,305
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online AD2460 ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord 2 Archlord X Armored Warfare Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Bionic Marine Command Online Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blackguards 2 Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodborne Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chroma Squad Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crowfall Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Heart Online Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dying Light Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthlock: Festival of Magic Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Fable Legends Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GRAV GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods Rush Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Hand of Fate Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Immune Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online Kill Strain King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lords of the Fallen 2 Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Hunter 4: Ultimate Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Necropolis Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Nova Genesis Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Chronicles Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Coast Legends Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Banner Saga 2 The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Trapped Dead: Lockdown Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utherous Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles 3D Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

All Posts by Velocinox

All Posts by Velocinox

39 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last
780 posts found
Originally posted by Pemmin
Originally posted by Velocinox

This isn't new. PvE has been in the backseat for years. The PvPers claim that MMOs are a PvE world with few PvP standouts, but the truth is, PvP has always been there in some form. In all these games. It corrupts even PvE-centric games with questions of class 'balance' that does not concern a PvE player, but causes the worst kind of forums rants from PvP players.

 

Now turn the tables and see where PvE exists in the PvP-centric games? It's a token effort at best, with little impact on the design. It is rails driven leveling paths so you can get to end game PvP. Eve, Warhammer are early examples, while Population, Crowfall, Camelot, Star Citizen, all of the new MMOs are PvP-centric with little care for PvE.

 

The PvPers will claim they are the forgotten, but they've ALWAYS had a place, even in the most PvE oriented MMO, EQ to WoW... But the reverse is not true, PvE can and does get left behind.

 

And PvPers don't try to tell me this isn't true just because 'X' game isn't your version of PvP. There's a difference between PvP not existing at all and it not being exactly what you wanted.

Fixed

This isn't new. PvP has been in the backseat for years. The PvEers claim that MMOs are a PvP world with few PvE standouts, but the truth is, PvE has always been there in some form. In all these games. It corrupts even PvP-centric games with questions of class 'balance' that does not concern a PvP player, but causes the worst kind of forums rants from PvE players.

 

Now turn the tables and see where PvP exists in the PvE-centric games? It's a token effort at best, with little impact on the design. It is rails driven leveling paths so you can get to end game PvE. EQ, WoW are early examples, while FFXIV, Wildstar, GW2, Elite Dangerous, all of the new MMOs are PvE-centric with little care for PvP.

 

The PvEers will claim they are the forgotten, but they've ALWAYS had a place, even in the most PvP oriented MMO, UO to AA... But the reverse is not true, PvP can and does get left behind.

 

And PvEers don't try to tell me this isn't true just because 'X' game isn't your version of PvE. There's a difference between PvE not existing at all and it not being exactly what you wanted.

 

mmo mad libs ftl!

Fixed

Originally posted by Satarious
Originally posted by Velocinox
 

Your analogy is spot on but works against the point you're trying to make...

Despite the communist government trying to force capitalism to work in its favor, their market continues to plummet...

 

This is off topic, but China wouldn't even have nearly as much wealth they have now without capatalism.  If you look at their history since they became a Communist nation in 1949, their economy was essentially a flat line of poverty until they started privatizing things in the late 1970s.  It's only then that their economy began an exponential rise.  Their current situation is basically a huge bubble created by easy credit from their financial institutions (similar to our own situation in 2008) only to burst and basically cause the market to free-fall.  They're going to have recessions and depressions like we've had in our past, but they will eventually have the biggest economy in the world this century.  With as many people they have and their adoption of our economic system, it's inevitable.

Considering they've already walked this path and it blew up in their faces, don't bet the farm on the man (men) behind the curtain.

Originally posted by cirdane

My first MMORPG was dark age of Camelot, So I have been watching development of this game sense the kickstarter campaign.

In fact I meant my wife playing dark age of Camelot (we bailed about 6 months into Grind fest TOA) on Tristan (hib) went back for 6 months on the classic servers.  We won't be coming back. Everything I've seen says PVE's will be second class citizens in this game. No pvp ? no levels for you!  oh you can CRAFT (how you are going to gather with out leveling in pvp eludes me). My wife is always a muliti max level crafter in any game she plays and the go to person for crafting in any guild were in. She dislikes pvp (long history as a healer being abused by stleathers to thank for that.)

 

so what is CU for us? an existence as second class citizens ? the best levels and the best loot always locked away while we provide crafting services for the min maxers  out in glory land?

DAOC was more than pvp there were dragon raids there were guild camps for drops ,xp and raw matts that built COMUNITY that was then tested in PVP. people defended the realm because the ream was SOMTHING it was the friends you camped with it was the darkness falls access for your crafters, it was your dragon raid, you went to defend the RELICS.

PVP was the critical part where people who had become friends in PVE went to war in PVP. it looks like CU will have none of this. in daoc there were crafters, campers and raiders that almost never saw  PVP except maybe during a relic raid. with no leveling except for pvp kiss that community good bye. Indeed I don't think there will be another truly successful MMO until someone realizes that maximum achievement must be obtainable through all paths PVP, PVE, Raiding, and Crafting.

 I really wish this game was trying to capture more of the community of DAOC rather than having PVP as the  be all  to a good game.

I truly hope this game does well but it looks like it's not  not capturing the Parts of DAOC that drew some of us to DAOCt back in 2001.

This isn't new. PvE has been in the backseat for years. The PvPers claim that MMOs are a PvE world with few PvP standouts, but the truth is, PvP has always been there in some form. In all these games. It corrupts even PvE-centric games with questions of class 'balance' that does not concern a PvE player, but causes the worst kind of forums rants from PvP players.

 

Now turn the tables and see where PvE exists in the PvP-centric games? It's a token effort at best, with little impact on the design. It is rails driven leveling paths so you can get to end game PvP. Eve, Warhammer are early examples, while Population, Crowfall, Camelot, Star Citizen, all of the new MMOs are PvP-centric with little care for PvE.

 

The PvPers will claim they are the forgotten, but they've ALWAYS had a place, even in the most PvE oriented MMO, EQ to WoW... But the reverse is not true, PvE can and does get left behind.

 

And PvPers don't try to tell me this isn't true just because 'X' game isn't your version of PvP. There's a difference between PvP not existing at all and it not being exactly what you wanted.

Originally posted by Satarious
Originally posted by LacedOpium
Originally posted by Satarious
Originally posted by LacedOpium

 

My suggestion to you, OP, is if to just move on and not waste your time with these PvP centric MMOs.  Apparently, these PvP game developers haven't learned their lesson from games the likes of Mortal Online and Darkfall: Unholy.  If they don't want the PvE players money, then don't give it to them.  Continuing to fail is the only way they'll eventually learn.  I wouldn't hold my breath though.  The need to "gank" is a yearned thrill and a mental disposition inherent with these hardcore PvP foks.  They can't help themselves.

Wow.  My hats off to your straw man argument.  To me, rampant ganking happens in those free-for all, no rule set pvp games like Darkfalls.  Human nature tends to follow the path of least resistance.  So if you just let people kill people everywhere with no incentive to organize, etc., people will just kill randomly ad nauseum until people get bored and leave.  There has to be a purpose to PvP, and that's where cooperative PvP (or RvR) comes into play.  What you're talking about is not this game.

 

Satarious, how often have we heard this before?  If it were really that easy it would have been done by now.  PvP working as you tell it is like communism as it is sold to the natives.  It looks good on paper but it falls apart in execution.  Let's at least try and be a little honest with ourselves here. 

Uh.. it's already been proven before, my friend.  One word:  DaoC

Many still agree (that have played it before) that DaoC had the best PvP ever.  It looked good on paper as well as in execution.  So it's more like  the free market system being  introduced to Communist China.

Your analogy is spot on but works against the point you're trying to make...

Despite the communist government trying to force capitalism to work in its favor, their market continues to plummet...

 

Pie-in-the-Sky game design has been an issue since computer gaming has began. This is typically where a publisher steps in and put the brakes on reckless spending and makes the more dream-driven designers finish what they started even if that means making less than they want.

 

When you combine a designer's dreams with player's hopes, and more importantly their inability to stop paying for those hopes, you get a reckless hype machine. Something that will continue to grow beyond its funding as long as their is hope from the fans and dreams from the designer. In the end the attempt to build what is forever growing will either result in whatever is built being misshapen and malformed or not completed at all.

 

"Art is never finished, only abandoned." - Leonardo da Vinci

 

 

Originally posted by Panther2103
Originally posted by Velocinox

Rally 'round the company, With a pocket full of shills.

There's that knee-jerk reaction to someone saying something... anything negative about something you identify with...

 

He's not saying the games are bad, he's not saying that Funcom is a terrible game developer, he's just saying that they need to police their games for cheaters and hackers better than they are currently. What's wrong with that desire in your favorite game?

 

Keep your sphincter clenching and emotions out of it, please?

He edited the post and the title. It wasn't as nice as it is now.

So he ranted...

 

People do that when they're angry.

Rally 'round the company, With a pocket full of shills.

There's that knee-jerk reaction to someone saying something... anything negative about something you identify with...

 

He's not saying the games are bad, he's not saying that Funcom is a terrible game developer, he's just saying that they need to police their games for cheaters and hackers better than they are currently. What's wrong with that desire in your favorite game?

 

Keep your sphincter clenching and emotions out of it, please?

It's still hamstrung by a 'punish if you pay' business model.

 

It's Free to Play, but if you ever give them money they punish you by holding your account hostage. If you don't continue to pay them they deny access to it.

 

So it's like they don't want you to give them money.

Originally posted by LacedOpium
Originally posted by Velocinox
Originally posted by LacedOpium
Originally posted by Velocinox

 

 

That's a lot of green text that basically comes down to you didn't go read the link I gave you where Raph Koster said they had fluid open PvP written in from the beginning and only later after he left did SOE change it to a PvP opt in switch...

Look, if you're going to tell the creator of the game he's wrong knock yourself out, but that doesn't help your case much.

 

 

I am agreeing with the creator.  You are the one who is at odds.

What SWG may have been intended to be at some point during its development was not how it was ultimately released.  What SWG was ultimately released as was a PvE centric sandbox with optional PvP.

It can not be made any more clearer than that. 

What was just made clear is that you weren't there. The TEF Raph describes was in the game at release and was the way the game played for more than three years. It didn't require opt in and it was open to all players at all times.

 

 

Whatever you say, bud.  Sometimes a debate gets to a point where its no longer worth debating.  I think we've reached that point.  You say SWG was a PvP sandbox.  You're entitled to your own beliefs.  You keep believing that.

And that point just happened when I showed you have been lying about even playing the game.

Originally posted by LacedOpium
Originally posted by Velocinox

 

 

That's a lot of green text that basically comes down to you didn't go read the link I gave you where Raph Koster said they had fluid open PvP written in from the beginning and only later after he left did SOE change it to a PvP opt in switch...

Look, if you're going to tell the creator of the game he's wrong knock yourself out, but that doesn't help your case much.

 

 

I am agreeing with the creator.  You are the one who is at odds.

What SWG may have been intended to be at some point during its development was not how it was ultimately released.  What SWG was ultimately released as was a PvE centric sandbox with optional PvP.

It can not be made any more clearer than that. 

What was just made clear is that you weren't there. The TEF Raph describes was in the game at release and was the way the game played for more than three years. It didn't require opt in and it was open to all players at all times.

 


Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Velocinox
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Velocinox
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Velocinox
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Velocinox
Originally posted by Distopia

I didn't really take part in crafting, . How is going to fort Tusken for loot not PVE, How is fighting a krayt Dragon, not PVE? How is doing death watch bunker runs or the Corvette, not PVE? Seriously...

I got a better question for you, how did you not read my entire post and still feel qualified to post a rebuttal?

Seriously...

When your entire post was inaccurate what result do you expect?

So I pegged you dead on.

In what way? You're just being ridiculous if you ask me...

Nobody did. You were the one that decided to half read my post and then ask questions on defining SWG as PvE even though I covered those examples in the second half.

Do explain though I'd love to hear your assumption.

Already covered in other posts including an article by Raph Koster, so go half read that.

 

I know all about SWG's issues with boring PVE mechanics, that wasn't the point, it was also pretty much the standard at the time in terms of PVE content. So there's that...

Your idea of what constitutes PVE content in this sense is obviously rigid, Quests and what was it endgame? Yes I finished your post the first time, you refuted nothing about what I said in my follow up. I have a hard time believing you spent much time in SWG based on those posts. You have a warped sense of it's reality that's for sure.

In this post you play obtuse and try to put words in my mouth that PvE is defined only by quests and endgame, and then...

 

Originally posted by Distopia

Raph Kosters regret was more or less one of story infusion was it not? Due to budget and time it never was done... That's a long way from saying SWG had no PVE.... There were plenty of forms of PVE in the game, even more so post CU and Post NGE... As they added questing...

SWG was certainly not just a PVP game, a very small percentage of Bloodfin, (the unofficial PVP server named so by Q3po) took part in the PVP game. It was a lot of players yet there were many more who did only the PVE side of the game, or the crafting or the socializing etc on that server alone..

I'm sorry I do not agree with a point you've made.

 

In this post you include my statements about story and you even admit it wasn't included in the game making my very own point about lack of story for me. (which you disingenuously tried to ignore in the other post I quoted from you in an attempt at feigned ignorance.) that's being pretty trollish. You're no longer trying to prove your point, but just trying to save face.

 

I linked to Raph telling the world that SWG was PvP from day one, ignore it all you want, be my guest. You can call Call of Duty a MMORPG, and Hearthstone an RTS too for all I care, you can be right in your own mind and painfully wrong outside of it. It's your prerogative.


 

 

Originally posted by LacedOpium
Originally posted by Velocinox
Originally posted by LacedOpium
 

 

It wasn't a PvP sandbox in the least. 

If it wasn't a PvP sandbox in the least, then it wouldn't have PvP, and it wouldn't have player driven crafting, economy or city building. SWG had all of these.

It can have PvP, and not be a PvP "sandbox" in the least.  It can have player driven crafting and have nothing to do with being a "PvP sandbox."  And it can obviously have an economy and city building and not be a "PvP sandbox."  All of this is obvious by the dozens upon dozens of already existing PvE centric games that do all of the above.  We are all well aware that SWG had optional PvP.  Your point?


Everything done in the game was a PvE activity. 

Crafting and Trade is not PvE. From dealing with architects for new harvesters for your resources, to selling your final goods to the public it's interacting with other players, not AI. Town Building and politics is not PvE it's interacting with other players, not AI. Faction combat and advancement is PvP, Faction bases and advancement is PvP, the game was predominantly PvP, not PvE. That's where the CU and the NGE came in.

Again, there are dozens upon dozens of strictly PvE games featuring no PvP whatsoever that have all of the above (except the optional faction PvP stuff, of course).  No one in their right mind would ever classify any of them as PvP sandboxes.  Other than yourself, of course. No one in their right mind would ever classify a game as a PvP sandbox simply because players are able to interact with each other by selling, or trading, or "dealing with architects for new harvesters," or whatever else you mentioned dealing with player interaction.  What you are describing is an MMO, not PvP.  You know better.  Or at least you should.

I get that since you are a PvPer you want to claim that it was a PvP sandbox, but it is obvious to all that you are wrong. 

I am a PvE player. You're welcome to check my post history if you doubt that.

Then you should know better.  But you are doing a great job of convincing me that perhaps you do not.

Simply put, a PvP sandbox does not allow for consensual PvP.  Why?  because if no one opted to PvP, or flagged themselves for PvP ...  there would be no PvP!

Flagging is just an aspect of PvP, like full loot and open world. Just because PvP has or lacks one or more of those features does not mean that it isn't PvP. Player vs Player definition including flagging and Raph Koster on SWG's fluid TEF PvP system

If the game is a PvP sandox, non-consensual PvP is the main function of the game, not having its PvP be optional by having a "flag" as an aspect of the game.  Flag PvP is, however, an aspect of PvP in a PvE centric game.  No one is denying that there was PvP in SWG, it just wasn't a PvP sandbox as you claim.  It was a PvE sandbox with an option to flag for PvP if a player so desired.  In other words, PvP was an "OPTIONAL" feature in this PvE centric game. 

Without PvP, without Crafting, Without trading, and without mindless mob grinding which can be found in any Korean PvP grinder what did you do that was so PvE? Specifically...

Your answer is rooted in your own question.  Specifically, everything mentioned in your question was what done that was so PvE ... except PvP, of course.  Because, again, ... we all know PvP was an optional feature of this PvE centric game.

 

 

That's a lot of green text that basically comes down to you didn't go read the link I gave you where Raph Koster said they had fluid open PvP written in from the beginning and only later after he left did SOE change it to a PvP opt in switch...

Look, if you're going to tell the creator of the game he's wrong knock yourself out, but that doesn't help your case much.

 

Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Velocinox
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Velocinox
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Velocinox
Originally posted by Distopia

I didn't really take part in crafting, . How is going to fort Tusken for loot not PVE, How is fighting a krayt Dragon, not PVE? How is doing death watch bunker runs or the Corvette, not PVE? Seriously...

I got a better question for you, how did you not read my entire post and still feel qualified to post a rebuttal?

Seriously...

When your entire post was inaccurate what result do you expect?

So I pegged you dead on.

In what way? You're just being ridiculous if you ask me...

Nobody did. You were the one that decided to half read my post and then ask questions on defining SWG as PvE even though I covered those examples in the second half.

Do explain though I'd love to hear your assumption.

Already covered in other posts including an article by Raph Koster, so go half read that.

 

Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Velocinox
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Velocinox
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Velocinox
Originally posted by Distopia
I think the two coexisted rather well in SWG.

No they didn't. SWG was a PvP sandbox game. The PvE was an after thought at best until the CU, and then NGE.

Terminal missions to go kill X Scyk's at Y location, and around a dozen broken quests in the whole game does not constitute a substantial PvE game.

I was referring more toward the way in which the overall game was put together, because you're right about those aspects. Yet the way the player ecology worked it went pretty well. As a PVPer I spent a lot of time hunting components for crafters, like hides and bones, made a decent amount of credits daily for doing so, or hunting down dot weapons to sell was another avenue I enjoyed. There's more to PVE than quests.

You're describing crafting and economy, and in a discussion about PvP vs PvE they are not PvE, they are a third separate and independent activity. Crafting and economy is something any game can include. PvE in the classic PvP vs PvE debate is where the player's primary opponent is AI. While this doesn't involve quests exclusively, the idea of grinding piles of mobs as legitimate PvE content is outdated. (Though some nostalgists suggest it's all a game needs)  and the traditional view of PvE is quests and endgame.

I didn't really take part in crafting, . How is going to fort Tusken for loot not PVE, How is fighting a krayt Dragon, not PVE? How is doing death watch bunker runs or the Corvette, not PVE? Seriously...

I got a better question for you, how did you not read my entire post and still feel qualified to post a rebuttal?

Seriously...

When your entire post was inaccurate what result do you expect?

So I pegged you dead on.

Originally posted by LacedOpium
Originally posted by Velocinox
Originally posted by Traugar
Originally posted by Velocinox
Originally posted by Traugar
They coexisted pretty well in SWG, but it wasn't a gear grind game.  A game like SWG?  Sure they can coexist.  A vertical progression gear grind game?  Not a chance.  

As we're already discussing, SWG wasn't a mix. It was a PvP sandbox. Having mobs around to allow you to level up is not PvE. It's just the grind PvPers have to do before they can do endgame PvP. look at any modern Korean PvP focused game and you get the same thing. Grind mobs to endgame and then PvP.

Having real PvE in an MMO is bringing the same element of fun that can be found in single player CRPGs and allowing them to be played cooperatively by several players at once. There was none of this in SWG, there was no NPC story, no element of a greater goal the NPCs offered. They were almost entirely window dressing and little more.

I did very little pvp.  I was mainly pve.  How do come up with pvp sandbox when you had to flag in order to pvp?  

I PvE'd in Eve... I wouldn't call Eve a PvE game.

 

Just because there is a corn in your turd doesn't make it food.

 

It wasn't a PvP sandbox in the least. 

If it wasn't a PvP sandbox in the least, then it wouldn't have PvP, and it wouldn't have player driven crafting, economy or city building. SWG had all of these.


Everything done in the game was a PvE activity. 

Crafting and Trade is not PvE. From dealing with architects for new harvesters for your resources, to selling your final goods to the public it's interacting with other players, not AI. Town Building and politics is not PvE it's interacting with other players, not AI. Faction combat and advancement is PvP, Faction bases and advancement is PvP, the game was predominantly PvP, not PvE. That's where the CU and the NGE came in.

I get that since you are a PvPer you want to claim that it was a PvP sandbox, but it is obvious to all that you are wrong. 

I am a PvE player. You're welcome to check my post history if you doubt that.

Simply put, a PvP sandbox does not allow for consensual PvP.  Why?  because if no one opted to PvP, or flagged themselves for PvP ...  there would be no PvP!

Flagging is just an aspect of PvP, like full loot and open world. Just because PvP has or lacks one or more of those features does not mean that it isn't PvP. Player vs Player definition including flagging and Raph Koster on SWG's fluid TEF PvP system

Without PvP, without Crafting, Without trading, and without mindless mob grinding which can be found in any Korean PvP grinder what did you do that was so PvE? Specifically...

Originally posted by Traugar
Originally posted by Velocinox
Originally posted by Traugar
They coexisted pretty well in SWG, but it wasn't a gear grind game.  A game like SWG?  Sure they can coexist.  A vertical progression gear grind game?  Not a chance.  

As we're already discussing, SWG wasn't a mix. It was a PvP sandbox. Having mobs around to allow you to level up is not PvE. It's just the grind PvPers have to do before they can do endgame PvP. look at any modern Korean PvP focused game and you get the same thing. Grind mobs to endgame and then PvP.

Having real PvE in an MMO is bringing the same element of fun that can be found in single player CRPGs and allowing them to be played cooperatively by several players at once. There was none of this in SWG, there was no NPC story, no element of a greater goal the NPCs offered. They were almost entirely window dressing and little more.

I did very little pvp.  I was mainly pve.  How do come up with pvp sandbox when you had to flag in order to pvp?  

I PvE'd in Eve... I wouldn't call Eve a PvE game.

 

Just because there is a corn in your turd doesn't make it food.

Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Velocinox
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Velocinox
Originally posted by Distopia
I think the two coexisted rather well in SWG.

No they didn't. SWG was a PvP sandbox game. The PvE was an after thought at best until the CU, and then NGE.

Terminal missions to go kill X Scyk's at Y location, and around a dozen broken quests in the whole game does not constitute a substantial PvE game.

I was referring more toward the way in which the overall game was put together, because you're right about those aspects. Yet the way the player ecology worked it went pretty well. As a PVPer I spent a lot of time hunting components for crafters, like hides and bones, made a decent amount of credits daily for doing so, or hunting down dot weapons to sell was another avenue I enjoyed. There's more to PVE than quests.

You're describing crafting and economy, and in a discussion about PvP vs PvE they are not PvE, they are a third separate and independent activity. Crafting and economy is something any game can include. PvE in the classic PvP vs PvE debate is where the player's primary opponent is AI. While this doesn't involve quests exclusively, the idea of grinding piles of mobs as legitimate PvE content is outdated. (Though some nostalgists suggest it's all a game needs)  and the traditional view of PvE is quests and endgame.

I didn't really take part in crafting, . How is going to fort Tusken for loot not PVE, How is fighting a krayt Dragon, not PVE? How is doing death watch bunker runs or the Corvette, not PVE? Seriously...

I got a better question for you, how did you not read my entire post and still feel qualified to post a rebuttal?

Seriously...

Originally posted by Traugar
They coexisted pretty well in SWG, but it wasn't a gear grind game.  A game like SWG?  Sure they can coexist.  A vertical progression gear grind game?  Not a chance.  

As we're already discussing, SWG wasn't a mix. It was a PvP sandbox. Having mobs around to allow you to level up is not PvE. It's just the grind PvPers have to do before they can do endgame PvP. look at any modern Korean PvP focused game and you get the same thing. Grind mobs to endgame and then PvP.

Having real PvE in an MMO is bringing the same element of fun that can be found in single player CRPGs and allowing them to be played cooperatively by several players at once. There was none of this in SWG, there was no NPC story, no element of a greater goal the NPCs offered. They were almost entirely window dressing and little more.

Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Velocinox
Originally posted by Distopia
I think the two coexisted rather well in SWG.

No they didn't. SWG was a PvP sandbox game. The PvE was an after thought at best until the CU, and then NGE.

Terminal missions to go kill X Scyk's at Y location, and around a dozen broken quests in the whole game does not constitute a substantial PvE game.

I was referring more toward the way in which the overall game was put together, because you're right about those aspects. Yet the way the player ecology worked it went pretty well. As a PVPer I spent a lot of time hunting components for crafters, like hides and bones, made a decent amount of credits daily for doing so, or hunting down dot weapons to sell was another avenue I enjoyed. There's more to PVE than quests.

You're describing crafting and economy, and in a discussion about PvP vs PvE they are not PvE, they are a third separate and independent activity. Crafting and economy is something any game can include. PvE in the classic PvP vs PvE debate is where the player's primary opponent is AI. While this doesn't involve quests exclusively, the idea of grinding piles of mobs as legitimate PvE content is outdated. (Though some nostalgists suggest it's all a game needs)  and the traditional view of PvE is quests and endgame.

Originally posted by ReallyNow10
Originally posted by FomaldehydeJim

Conclusion   (The answer is to anchor balancing on the primary mode of the game.  WOW, for example, is primarily a PVE game, and any PVP action is incidental and the players "should" have to adapt.  That they're always nerfing classes and have dedicated PVP gear is completely FAIL.)

Wow caved to PvP and ruined aspects of PvE because of its PvP.

Stun rogues being one extremely fun element that got completely weakened, invalidated and finally removed. All because of PvP.

39 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last