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All Posts by Salvatoris

All Posts by Salvatoris

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203 posts found
Originally posted by JGMIII
Originally posted by Gdemami


Originally posted by JGMIII
Your trying to say Eve is a carebear game or not much of a pvp game and we all know that's bullshit.

Originally posted by Gdemami


67% of the players lose 1 ship per month.



6k ships get destroyed everyday. I wouldn't call that a carebear game.

Also this isnt a game where you respawn in 30 seconds with no pvp risk when you pop.

You lose everything in eve.

I don't see how that 60% number even matters, Industrial and mission runner players don't really get killed in combatant pvp those guys are the reason the pvpers have those nice ships and fittings.



So.. on average, about one in 50 subscribers lose a ship every  day? 

I love how you just said "You lose everything in Eve" when you die.   You guys generally like to call people trolls for saying that.  Shouldn't you be buying ships and equipment in bulk so you always have another ship assembled and ready to go?  Why wouldn't you want to get right back to the action?

The reason the 60% matter is simple.  You remove PvP from Eve and it is nothing.  Short of the crappy agent missions that no one wants to do anyway, there isn't much to the game that doesn't directly involve PvP combat.  Without the equipment loss from PvP almost every other gameplay mechanic is useless and unnecessary.  There is no market without PvP, there is no need for mining, escort or transport without PvP.  This IS a PvP centered game, but apparently not many people are actually engaging in PvP in Eve.  I'm sure a lot of people who have played the game won't be surprised by that fact.. but the people who only hear the Evotist fanbot spin seem genuinely surprised by the low number of ships lost per subscriber.

Originally posted by ericbelser

Actually those numbers just help reinforce the reality that most EVE subscribers in fact *avoid* actual pew-pew.

.7 ships destroyed per month/player? Please. We accounted for more than that just flying in the alliance tournament. I know lots of pilots who lose 4-5 ships a week, let alone per each of them accounts for what ~30 other players who don't lose even one? heh.



I'd say this probably means that about half of the 300K accounts aren't playing at all.  Even if you remove half the allegedly active subs, the number is still alarmingly low for a game with little more to it than PvP.  As much as people talk about the epic PvP battles, this info suggests that each person destroys a ship or has their own ship destroyed about once a month.  Not very impressive  really.

I read an interesting article on massively about Eve's subscriber numbers and ship losses per month.  I was pretty surprised to learn that there are less ships lost every month in PvP combat than there are active players reported by CCP.  There are .67 ships lost in PvP each month for each active subscription to the game.  That means either the subscription numbers are totally inaccurate, or most of them aren't participating in any PvP at all.  The only other option is that active Eve players, on average only either lost or destroy about oner ship per month.

tons of charts to prove that no one really plays Eve...

You should have bought the stock 6 months ago when the demise of Tabula Rasa caused it to drop to a fraction of it's value, or a year and a half ago when Auto Assault's crash and burn cause a similar slump in the stock price.  I'm not a stock market guru, but I'm pretty sure you want to buy low and sell high, not the inverse. ;) 

Aion is the hot new flash in the pan.  Maybe it would be prudent to wait and see what the stock does over the next few months before jumping in to bed with a publisher that canned two live MMOs in the last two years.

Have you looked at free realms?

There is some more action orientedf stuff here: .


As much h as the Eve players like to think their game is fundamentally different than other MMOS, it is really pretty similar.  The XP in eve is cash.  The more you have, the better equipment you can field.  Eve is a game about grinding ISK rather than XP... in the end it's just like most other MMOs, except that the quest system is super lame.  In the absence of decent story driven content, the players have to create their own motivations and goals... and somehow they find freedom in that lack of gameplay options.


And yes, Eve fanboys do believe they are hardcore for playing Eve.  They also honestly believe they are more intelligent and mature than people who play any other MMO.  Of course, not everyone who plays Eve is a fanboy, but the percentage is much higher than most games.

Originally posted by JGMIII
Originally posted by Salvatoris

Just because a game has quests doesn't mean you aren't also free to do whatever you want.  You want to just group up with your buddies and explore or dungeon crawl?  Most games allow that.  You don't like quests, don't do them. 


Not when a Game gimps your playstyle.

These games make questing the clear cut best way to progress a character.

Ever try to just explore and kill camps of monsters in a game like Lotro? It's horrible Is almost like they don;t want me to Explore stuff.

It limits me.



Why do you care if you level as fast as people who play differently than you?  Don't people with differing play-styles advance ad varying rates in Eve and Ryzom?  So what if someone else decides to grind out easy XP, whether it's from quests or grinding open world mobs.  Their game will quit being fun faster than yours...   This doesn't really have anything to do with games limiting your gameplay experiences. You guys just want to dictate the options available for everyone else.

Just because a game has quests doesn't mean you aren't also free to do whatever you want.  You want to just group up with your buddies and explore or dungeon crawl?  Most games allow that.  You don't like quests, don't do them. 

Originally posted by JGMIII
Originally posted by Salvatoris


I want to read a story, you want to write one.  We are just looking for different things from a video game. :)


Hey, I could agree with that.

Alright I need to head to work people.

Continue this discussion if you wish.

This can also be swung into a Open ended mmo vs themepark mmo discussion if you guys want.

Laterz and Enjoy my player created content :)


I had a discussion in the Eve section about games vs toys.  I consider MMOS like Eve and Ryzom to be almost a toy rather than a game, but I do think you can have a sandbox that has the appealing aspects of both.  I know that it's in a terrible state now, but once upon a time, SWG was a great sandbox game.  You could choose to be just about anything you can imagine in the Star Wars universe.  You could be a pure merchant, crafter or entertainer.  You could be a politician, build a house guild hall or city.  You could be a hunter or a farmer or the captain of a multi person star ship... but there were also interesting and meaningful, story driven quests.  I don't think Eve or Ryzom would be hurt by adding more of that type of content, as long as it didn't interfere with the freedom the games give you in other areas.

On the distinction between games and toys...


Game V Toy

The difference between toys and games is that games are something that consists of procedures, rules, an objective and other structural characteristics while a toy is simply a physical object whose main use is or can be for entertainment. A game is abstract, a toy is physical. You can not touch a game, only a toy. However, you can never play a toy. An example of a game and a toy would be poker and playing cards. Poker has rules to be played by. There is an objective you are trying to reach. If someone were to ask you if you wanted to play some specific kind of poker, you would know what they meant. Playing cards are simply objects. There are no procedures to playing cards. There are some general rules that define what playing cards can consist of, 52 cards with an optional two jokers, but nothing that tells you what you can do with them. You are limited in their use only by their physical characteristics and your imagination. Generally, you take a toy and you form a game based upon the use of that toy, but the toy has other uses. The game has only the one use.


A game and a toy are two separate ideas. A toy cannot be a game, nor can a game be a toy. This is simply because that they are different things. As stated earlier, a toy is some actual physical object, while a game is simply a set of rules, procedures, objectives, etc which might involve how the toy is used. There is a toy Monopoly, which is a game board, money, little pewter There is also a game Monopoly that consists of thing such as "If you pass or land on go, collect $200" and other things of that nature. I can play a different game with the toy Monopoly pieces if I can think of one, and I can play the game Monopoly on the computer without the physical toy.


In video games the line between toy and game break down some. Part of the problem is that there is nothing really physical about video games, except the disk which you probably wouldn't want to use as some sort of toy, although you could. Everything that happens is virtual. You can not touch it as you could a normal toy. Also, there is a large amount of structure to a game. There are rules and procedures, even in games like The Sims. However, video games are not exactly games either. I could play Mario as it was intended and built to be play, simply trying to get through the missions, or I could make up a new game, based on how many coins I can collect or points I earn in a single level. Now I don't care about reaching the end. It doesn't matter if I die or not, just how many coins or points I have. So in that sense it's very much like the Monopoly example. Built with the intention of being played one way, but can be played in multiple others. It is simply much more structured. So perhaps objective is what separates the two. Mario the toy has no objective, but Mario the game does. So while the line is a little bit less clear, there still is a distinction between the game and the toy.

What about sandbox, Will Wright style video games? Is The Sims or SimCity a game or a toy? Well, it definitely is a toy in some sense, because they lack specific objectives. Games can be made with them by giving yourself an objective, whether specific, "I want my character to become an astronaut", or general, "I want my town to grow larger." But can it be both at the same time? No, although the line is nearly not existent. No matter how you play The Sims or SimCity or any game like them, you still have some sort of objective, even if its just as simple as keeping your character or city alive, if not growing. Again, a toy is something that can be given an objective while a game already has one. Therefore there is a distinction and the two cannot be the same.




Originally posted by JGMIII
Originally posted by mbd1968

You sound like my grandfather... he always started with "Before the war..."  whereas you start with "In the old MMOs..." times change. If you don't want to do the quests, don't, nobody is forcing you. Play the game as you want and let people play it as they want. Or alternatively you can pay everybody $15/month and tell them how to play.

If you no longer feel you can play these type of games because of quests find a new hobby.


What did you do Add Eve as your "current" mmo to seem cool to fellow forum goers?

Dude of all people that should atleast understand where im comming from it should be a Eve player.

Games like Eve and Ryzom are exactly the types of MMOs that let you Rp, Explore and not follow handholding quests areound like you dont have a brain.

I doubt you even play Eve because you last line wouldn't have even been typed.


What you consider hand holding, a lot of people see as story driven content.  Just because a game has a a story and quests that tie the story together doesn't preclude you from open exploration or free thinking.  I have only seen a few MMOS where quests were actually mandatory for advancement.  In most games they are optional.  If Eve and Ryzom had some decent story driven PvE content, I might like them both.

I want to read a story, you want to write one.  We are just looking for different things from a video game. :)

Originally posted by redcap036
Originally posted by Salvatoris
Originally posted by redcap036
Originally posted by Fuhyo
Originally posted by Wieland

Multiplayer Battletech 3025
Sadly this one never made it out of Beta.


I was in the beta for that game and it was pretty tight and very close to completion when MS forced EA to pull the plug on it.  Rather a bizarre situation, MS licensed out the IP to Kesmai (the developers of MPBT 3035 and Solaris) with EA publishing and running the MMO (EA had just purchased Kesmai at the time).  This was at the same time MS had "The Zone" for their games which had a matchmaking service for the MechWarrior games.  For some reason, literally a few weeks away before MPBT 3025 went final, MS came to the conclusion that having a MMO Mechwarrior game would take away profits from The Zone and potential box sales of Mechwarrior as well and forced EA to pull the plug. 

At the time MPBT 3025 was going through it's closed beta process, it was the #1 game on, despite the fact it was not an open beta.  It had more players logged in during prime time hours than any other EA online game at the time.



Pity if they had gone ahead, it most likely would have been the king of mmorpg's and we most likely would never have heard of WoW, they really did put a lot of work into this, if you look under images in the side bar menu, you can see they had very exstensive list of mech's to offer, maybe we should all just start hassling EA to re-release it now,( it can't hurt The Zone or the MW franchise any more now!), man what a waste, just make's me want to cry, specially when you look at the current stock of mmorpg's we got to play.


I think we are looking back at MPBT with rose colored glasses.  I played it heavily, and enjoyed some aspects of it.  Unfortunately game-play wasn't one of them.  The matches took place on small featureless maps and were generally over within a few seconds of the two sides coming in to contact with each other.  The biggest issue that game has was trying to compare to Mechwarrior 4 in terms of gameplay.


Sorry never got to play it myself, so really I was just looking thru the wishful thinking glasses, just started playing MW4: merc's for the first time a couple of days ago, I was a big fan of MW3, but was one of those who wouldn't play MW4 becuase it took away our weapons placement choices, for were we can put what weapons we like in our mech's, silly I know, but least now,( a fews years latter) I got something good mech-wise to play now, also getting MW4 and extra mech paks to really give it a good go agian.

It's a pity they don't try and re-vamp it and release it, with today's tech and programing abilites, Hmm.. where did I put those glasses again, it looked so good with them on.


The clan and inner sphere mech packs are really hard to find.  I have seen them go on ebay for a hundred bucks each.  You can download the mektek packs and get like 50 new mechs though.  They also added a bunch of omni slots to existing mechs to open your weapon choices back up a bit.  The limited slots didn't ever bother me when mech4 launched.  I was ready to see something other than 12 ER small Striders.  Who knew they would be replaced by 7 ERL Novas in Vengeance.  ;) 


One of the three files was bad, but since I couldn't find out which one it was, I decided to just skip it rather than download them all again. 

Each file only took a few hours to download at T1 speed.  I share the line with two customers of the ISP I work for, so I try to keep large downloads limited to times they aren't on.  This is really why I don't want to have to download the whole game through the station launcher.  Unless I use a download manager, it eats up all the incoming bandwidth.

Originally posted by tigris67

Every time these screens come out, they cease to amaze me. Each one is just beautiful.


I assume you mean they never cease to amaze you. ;)

I like the graphics overall, but I am not crazy about all the bright colored trails the ships leave.   I think graphically the game looks a lot less impressive after seeing video of Black Prophecy, but JGE is probably more robust in terms of gameplay.

Sometimes you guys do a pretty poor job illustrating the point that Eve has a more mature player base than other MMOs.  Feel free to keep proving my point, though.

Originally posted by Zlayer77

The average age of EvE players are 27 years, and I thank God every night as I turn down my computer and nest and plan my schemes, that The Devs made the Tutorial so complicated and the game so daunting that all the Retards and little kids stay away from the best game in the World. Because you know what we don’t want them here…..EVE is for Hardcore players that take their games seriously not for lame as Theme Park ex WoWers who would not know true genius even if it hit them in the face…



This last paragraph pretty much invalidates anything else you had to say, IMO.  Trotting out the old reliable material.  People who don't enjoy Eve are retards and children who need to go back to WoW.  At least you declare you fanboyism right from the beginning, so I can add you my "not capable of rational discussion" list.  ;)

You guys aren't going to bully me away from discussing the game simply by accusing me of trolling.  My posts here are on topic and civil.  I back up my opinions with examples and facts where possible... Do you even know what trolling is?  If you think it means having a differing opinion or posting something negative, you are incorrect.  I have never said you guys opinion of the game is wrong or in any way less valid than mine.  That attitude comes exclusively from the fanboy side of the argument. 

You are saying there is no meaning to games with no item loss.  You took it a step further by saying that it isn't just a matter of preference, but a fact.  Here, you are provably wrong.  Millions of people find plenty of meaning in games with no item loss.  Losing alone is plenty of motivation for a lot of people. 


Originally posted by Gdemami


Originally posted by Salvatoris
For some people, Losing is enough loss.  Losing a battle is all the motivation I need to try harder next time.  Losing all my ingame possessions when I die has the opposite affect that it apparently has on you.  It makes me want to play less.

When there is nothing to lose, there is no victory and with no victory, there is no achievement.
EVE is about achievements more than anything.


Losing all your possesions is your fault, not the game mechanics. Whenver you lose something in EVE, it is your fault in 90% cases, stop blaming the game for your own faults.


We just aren't going to agree on item loss.  The fact is, it's a matter of preference.  It's also a fact that about 90% of MMO gamers are playing games without item loss on death.  Saying there is no victory without item loss is just silly.  Most games we play, as a species, have winners and losers but no loss of possessions at the end.

I guess when you lose something in Eve it is your fault 100% of the time.  If you undock, it's your own fault when you die.  Beyond that point, your last statement is nonsense.  I read people post that thousands of ships are lost in battle every day in Eve.  You assertion is that 90% of those people were doing something wrong?  I tend to agree, but I think their crucial mistake was subscribing to Eve in the first place.

Originally posted by Gdemami


PVP with no loss is meaningless, not just a fluff.



As already said, those tasks are not tedious, they have a meaning. Again an aspect that makes EVE so different from other games - logistics.


 For some people, Losing is enough loss.  Losing a battle is all the motivation I need to try harder next time.  Losing all my ingame possessions when I die has the opposite affect that it apparently has on you.  It makes me want to play less.

Tedious and meaningful are not competing terms.  Some things are both.  Mining in Eve is both tedious and meaningful.  Neither of you has to be wrong there.

Well I had an active Eve account just a few weeks ago, so I know what people were asking about in chat at the time.  The inability to customize controls is a common topic.  My comment about the mouse wheel scrolling in and out is that it functions in reverse of every other game I  play.  I wanted it to scroll out when I roll the wheel back, and scroll in when i roll the wheel up... like every other game on the planet.  This should be an easy option to change, but it isn't.

To me, AOC felt like a single player game where the developers decided half way through to make it in to an MMO.  I agree that it should be free to play, but I haven't seen it since month 1.  In the very least, those of us who payed 50 bucks for a shell of what was advertised should get some free time to see if the game is any better than it was at launch.

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