Originally posted by Edany

Originally posted by Zinzan

Originally posted by Tamanous

Evidently most either forgot or didn't play DAoC ... but pve in that game sucked. It was something you had to grind through in order to get to RvR and nothing more. It isn't needed if pve is done right and integrated as a functional system withing RvR. I think CU can do this better than DAoC and appears to be doing so. Pve then becomes something that can be expanded on after release as actual RvR content. It needs to be redefined or you continue to generate confusion over the subject.

 

I do not understanding what is meant by "ticking off PvE players". This ISN'T a PvE game.

 

This game may not be for you. It is up to the individual to decide. You cannot make this game into a PvE game by making endless threads. CU may not be the game for you. It may not be the game for me either. Time will tell. It IS going to be the game for many RvR lovers of those who find they like the game for what it is and that is the entire point: accept CU for what it is or move on.

 

Followers of the game wish to talk about what the game will be and not what the game is not. Any subject about what the game is not is trolling.

That's a matter of opinion, clearly you never played classic or you wouldn't say such things about pve in DAoC, no one was on the grind back then, it was so hard to get to 50 players were forced to experience the road rather than the destination. Admittedly classic 48-50 was tough and a bit grindy but most of the pve at the time was excellent.

Also it is not trolling to discuss players visions for CU, I think people need to remember this game is not made yet and there will definitely be changes to the model as development progresses. Most KS as with most normally funded games rarely resemble their original concept at release. One released KS funded project has less than 30% of the promised content and functionality.

 

There will be no faster road to career suicide than for Mark Jacobs to all of a sudden go against the Foundational Principles that garnered him so much support just to implement traditional PvE in this game. [mod edit]

The only model change I see is perhaps the payment model, and even then, I'm not so sure they won't stick to their guns. Class changes, role changes, combat style changes, CD changes, stealth changes, art style changes, story line changes... yep, all possible.

Changing the entire core and philosophy of the game? [mod edit]

You cannot rule it out, remember nothing in CU is set in stone.

You cannot simply assume that no major changes between now and launch may occur, CSE have full control over this.

It would not be the first game to change direction mid-development. Adding limited pve would not be changing the core philosophy of the game, it would simply be bending it a little.

Interresting, either they have this content ready to go and cut it from release to trickle feed it out or they have just set out a line of whips players can beat them with if they miss any deadlines.

Hopefully the former, because AV are not known for keeping their promises when it comes to matters of release targets.

Still, quite a good list.

Originally posted by Tamanous

Evidently most either forgot or didn't play DAoC ... but pve in that game sucked. It was something you had to grind through in order to get to RvR and nothing more. It isn't needed if pve is done right and integrated as a functional system withing RvR. I think CU can do this better than DAoC and appears to be doing so. Pve then becomes something that can be expanded on after release as actual RvR content. It needs to be redefined or you continue to generate confusion over the subject.

 

I do not understanding what is meant by "ticking off PvE players". This ISN'T a PvE game.

 

This game may not be for you. It is up to the individual to decide. You cannot make this game into a PvE game by making endless threads. CU may not be the game for you. It may not be the game for me either. Time will tell. It IS going to be the game for many RvR lovers of those who find they like the game for what it is and that is the entire point: accept CU for what it is or move on.

 

Followers of the game wish to talk about what the game will be and not what the game is not. Any subject about what the game is not is trolling.

That's a matter of opinion, clearly you never played classic or you wouldn't say such things about pve in DAoC, no one was on the grind back then, it was so hard to get to 50 players were forced to experience the road rather than the destination. Admittedly classic 48-50 was tough and a bit grindy but most of the pve at the time was excellent.

Also it is not trolling to discuss players visions for CU, I think people need to remember this game is not made yet and there will definitely be changes to the model as development progresses. Most KS as with most normally funded games rarely resemble their original concept at release. One released KS funded project has less than 30% of the promised content and functionality.

Originally posted by Mkilbride

The answer about EU servers was answered forever ago. I swear no one bothers to look into these things.

 

Q: Will there be regional servers or will they all be one region?
A: Both, hopefully. The plan right now is to have all the servers in Virginia. Now, that will change depending on demand. If we get enough people coming in from Europe, we are totally willing, happy, and able, to set up servers in Europe. That depends on both the demand of those countries as a whole and the question to them ‘do you want to run on European servers or do you want to run on North American servers, using Amazing web-services; which is our plan right now.

This answers nothing, but thanks for playing :)

It's all about the outsourcing for those of us who suffered under GOA and the ridiculously named Right-now system until they state categorically that there will be no outsourcing of EU servers, should there even be an EU server in the first place, the question remains.

Originally posted by Rohn

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by DavisFlight
[mod edit]

[mod edit]

 

He is correct, however, about the trumped up number of bogus hits DFUW has gotten on this site today.  It's not the first time the DF community has manipulated the hit counter here.

This has happened in many games, not just DFUW.

Originally posted by Ikeda

This might sound like I'm starting a fight.. I'm not...

 

But I could have SWORN that everyone said Europe would contribute once Paypal was available.  84K hardly seems like contributing to me.  Has there been any reasoning behind why it didn't swell like previously thought?

Been saying this for months now, we do have credit and debit cards in Europe despite what half this forum think.

Originally posted by snapfusion

I thought this was funny.  I pulled this right off of Neverwinters website.  Some of you will see the irony in this, others as usual wont see it and still think there is nothing wrong with the state of our games, or how they are marketed verses the actuality of what's happening.  Publishers are literally talking out of both sides of the their mouths now in one sentence.

 

" The best part about Neverwinter: it's free to play! Become a Hero of the North today with a Founder's Pack purchase!  "

Its not ironic, its a contradiction, but its not even that unless you skew the structure. Alannis Morisette has a lot to answer for.

You should have just put up the quote and left it at that, the quote is quite amusing as it is.

SWG by a mile, the game was so horribly broken at release and half the classes never got fixed before the CU.

For me SWG was the last worthwhile attempt at a semi sandbox mmorpg, every one since has sucked ass.

Originally posted by Kasmos

As a huge fan of Ultima Online, Dark Age of Camelot, Shadowbane, and other amazing PvP games, Darkfall Unholy Wars is absolutely amazing.

 

By far the best gaming experience I've had since Ultima Online.

Just for balance i was a 10 year player of DAoC and played UO, Shadowbane, GW2, PS, PS2, EvE....pretty much every pvp mmo there has been. DFUW is fun for a while, but got boring really quickly for me.

Its worth buying if you want a full loot pvp mmo, otherwise don't bother, DFUW is this and nothing more. If this is what you want then you will find it in DFUW and it does it quite well.

Originally posted by wyrdaskolir

Think about it logically - aimbots won't work like that, unless its an aimbot with a human-like AI that can predict which direction you turn every single time (you said you were far away) and it would also have to calculate distance away from you in order to determine how high the crosshair has to be to account for the trajectory. You almost got me there.

Thus, I conclude that you are exaggerating many of your points. I'm not saying you're completely wrong but when people lose, they are quick to blame it on others cheating. Personally I haven't encountered any cheaters but every game is sure to have at least a few cheaters.

Erm....no.

The script you describe is really quite easy to make. There was at least one made for PS2 that did precisely this, calculated firing arc to target.

Its a hack, all you would need to do is point at the target and the script does the rest....maybe not even that.

Not saying this exists in DFUW, the population is so small I'd imagine it doesn't attract many decent script writers, but all it takes is one.

Originally posted by Tierless

So here is a twist. We want new players to get some XP in a safer place before they are thrown to the wolves right? So maybe for the first 5 lvls or whatever CSE decide on as the amount of lvling needed before leaving the BG to the main world everyone is the same faction. Your in "training". You go to the BG, pick a temporary side, and fight it out in. When not int he BG your all running around together. You also all start at the same place, kinda like a mists from GW2 but it's your Veil Journey or something. Then once you get enough XP you go on a "vision quest" and conclude by picking one of the 3 relms. Your "born" into the main world and you go on with the game form their.

The main reason I like this idea is it intrigues me to start out with people, maybe even frequently side with them, then enter the real world and end up on opposite sides, having to kill them. Emotional!

No levels in CU, or rather thats the plan at present. However, watch this space :)

Originally posted by meddyck

Originally posted by Zinzan

They have unwittingly (admittedly debatable) portrayed CU as DAoC lite which is a really questionable decision, so many basic concepts are copied directly from DAoC and the name itself is clearly chosen to appeal to the DAoC player base.

I don't think there is anything unwitting about it. Mark saw that there were many players who longed for a modernized version of DAOC's RvR without the forced raiding and gear grind that later xpacs added to DAOC and that's the niche game he chose to make. It worked in getting $2.3 million and counting in crowdsourced funding. The only really questionable things for me are whether he will try to change too many things from DAOC to CU and whether in light of his last attempt to make an RvR game (WAR) he and his team are really capable of creating a new fun RvR game that can thrive as a niche game.

I would agree, which is why I put in the caveat that this was debatable. I was trying to avoid the usual abuse i get on this forum by placating the rabid fanboys :)

Originally posted by EasymodeX

Most of this discussion is stupid.  People are getting caught up in their own terminology and arguing for meaningless distinctions.  All the "horizontal" progression examples in this thread are no different than most "vertical progression".  In all cases you increase in power from acquiring a greater variety of abilities.

 

In all cases you're not really competitive until you hit your max "horizontal level" and get all (or at least most of) your abilities.

 

 

A truly horizontal progression would look more like the following:

 

- you have 30 spec points

- trees have 30 possible points

- you have 5 trees

- trees are unlocked via "progression"

 

 

That is horizontal progression.  In order to invest and acquire "horizontal" capabilities, you have to subtract investment from your initial tree.

This is the problem, people are indeed getting caught up in meaningless terminology, vertical, horizontal, perpendicular, progression is progression regardless.

Im afraid i reject your example though, that's linear progression still :)

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by AIMonster

MMOs with some form of ability to play with each other through some system (be it upleveling, downleveling, level syncing to content, mentoring, apprenticeship, sidekicking, etc.):

Star Trek Online

Champions Online

City of Heroes

Everquest 2

Guild Wars 2

Final Fantasy XI

Age of Conan

Rift

Aion

Vanguard

Dragon's Call

Destiny Online

I'm sure there are plenty more here.  Most of these are AAA MMOs.  It's hardly an "uncommon" feature.  Not to mention every Cryptic MMO in the past has had this feature.

OP was talking about down leveling..not mentoring. How many games other than GW2 have down leveling feature? yes suddenly your list got very short.

Only because you lumped up all the mmos with mentoring system with one game with down leveling doesn't help your point in any ways.

It's part of the same reasoning though, being able to help and group with new players.

Originally posted by Wakygreek
I think down leveling is a good concept and could potentially be added to end game content, where you would get end game rewards based on how helpful you were to lower level players. It helps newbies coming in and it helps max level players as well.

Agreed, nothing kills a game faster than level restricted barriers to entry for new players.

Originally posted by Taldier

Originally posted by Boardwalker

Originally posted by Taldier

Originally posted by Boardwalker

Originally posted by Taldier

"With a horizontal progression ..."

 

Yikes! Can you explain how CU is doing this? It would be a nightmare if they stunted *meaningful* character progression by instituting some type of abominable, dung-like "horizontal" progression scheme.

....

If maxed out players could just one shot newbies on a whim it would be impossible to get involved in combat when you are starting out.

 

I see. You don't want progression. You want a lobby, fantasy-based FPS shooter where the only differentiation among players is connection speed. I guess if that's what CU is going for, more power to 'em. Personally, I prefer DAoC's realm rank progression, where improving a character in meaningful ways keeps a player invested in that character, and thus the game as well. Horizontal progression is a sure fire way to engender little to no investment in players with their characters.

As you advance in a horizontal progression system you get more options, more skills, more abilities.  You get better in combat without just exponentially increasing your base stats every level until you can squash other players like bugs.

 

Sorry, but you arent going to be able to lord yourself as an all powerful god over newer players in this game.  Charging into a dozen enemy players just by yourself is probably going to be a pretty bad idea, even if they havent been playing as long as you.

 

I shouldnt even dignify your other comments with a response, but no, I dont want to see a super twitchy FPS style game at all.  It should be very strategy based and reward smart decisions.

 

"I play longer than you, my gear gives +20 to awesome, You Die!  LOLOLOL", isnt a strategy, and its just pointless in a game that has absolutely no purpose for a PvE style treadmill.

 

Just to be clear:

Knowing not to wake up the target that your teammate has mezzed = skill

Starting out with 10k extra hitpoints and being able to kill half the enemy group with an AOE = not skill

What you describe is progression, vertical progression.

Originally posted by Slampig

Originally posted by Tierless

New blog up with my idea for leveling in CU and the fundamental flaw in current MMOs.The long is in the link.She short is, a skill based system that combines GW2 and SWG and some EVE. The flaw in MMOs now? They put all the resources into the leveling aspect and tack on end game. It should be the exact opposite of that with all the resources going into the endgame. It makes no sense to put so much time into the content everyone can only do 1 time per character not to mention its the stuff we rush past the fastest.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas/042013/25089_18-Question-Everything-Levels-Who-needs-em

Ok, how can you blame developers for that? You decide to fly through the content that is on you.

Well exactly, its a pretty poor argument as its based on the ops opinion and little else.

The success of level based mmos clearly shows this is what players want. For the vast majority of players the journey to top level is what they enjoy, levelling compartmentalises this experience. Players like to progress, it doesn't really matter if its vertical or horizontal (which by the way is actually a complete nonsense), as long as they have something to show for their efforts. It can be a new level which makes their character more powerful and unlocks access to harder areas of the game or a shiney new sword or armour, maybe just a title a-la DAoC realm ranks. People need something to strive for.

Not everyone rushes to endgame, not everyone cares about endgame content, people generally seem happy as long as there is something to do regardless of what that is. In a pvp game like CU there won't be any measurable end game, there simply cannot be otherwise it would turn into another EvE, whoever has played the longest wins.

Originally posted by TigsKC

Originally posted by Gyrus

-no killing rats

Not sure if it belongs with the introductory sequence, but I would love to see CSE release a CU trailer at some point that pokes fun at the "Kill 10 Rats" PvE quests as an effort at genre differentiation.

The worst was the multiple times WoW had me picking up dog poop!

Yeah, Im sure the "kill x players" will be really innovative, or perhaps the more innovative no tasks whatsoever.

People in glass houses and all that.

Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey
Posting your system specs would help.

Third post nails it, OP post your system specs, there might be a glaring bottleneck your not seeing.