If it's on 360 or not, I really hope SE takes the time to properly code FFXIV for the PS3. The PS3 can do SO much more than most game developers are currently doing, and if FFXIV takes advantage of that, it will stand the test of time. Where if it just ports a PC-based code, it won't look as good and certainly wont perform as well.

Originally posted by zanfire

it doesnt matter what system FF14 comes to, if its anything like FFXI the immature and annoying players (who exist on EVERY console and PC) will weed themselves out once they realize its not worth all the time and money to just piss people off. I mean look at FFXI, its one of the best communitys in game and its the only cross platform MMO.

im personaly going to play it on console (my ps3) first becuase i can garuntee my PC is not going to be able to handel the game, i just dont have the money to put into upgrading, so wont quite a few people i know.

See, I disagree on the reason why it has the best community. I feel it's the best simply because through strategic system design, they force player interaction, thus forcing people to constantly evolve with their character.

For example: It's one thing to accidently kill yourself because you're a dummy, but if you kill other people consistantly, only a true jerk would consistantly let a group of people down through foolishness before learning how to fix their ways. You only have to use a -GA spell and link a whole room of cave-berries once before you never do it again.

FFXI forced that interaction from the auction house to drops to grouping to mission and quest design. They could have done a bit better job on the group system to facilitate it more, but for the most part, the game design and overall system design just garner a more intelligent and community-oriented player, not that it attracts them - the game changes people that aren't typically community oriented into people that are.

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Originally posted by ic0n67
>.> hang on ... you know this and accept this and you still call LORTO a clone of WOW?
Long story short on Wednesday night I typed a nice long counter argument to your last post. Lost of example inside and outside the realm of gaming. Talked about industry standards and such . It was really amazing if I do say so myself. Took nearly 3 hours. I ended up accidently hitting a link and it erased everything I wrote... I basically cried myself to sleep that night.
Any yes ... I have played FFXI ... since NA launch ... I probably have played more longer and more often than you ... just saying. http://www.ffxiah.com/player.php?id=19030

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LOTRO IS a clone of WOW. Since you have spent so much time in FFXI, do you not agree with the fact that EQ2, WOW, LOTRO and virtually ever game released SINCE WOW is in one side of the spectrum, each with common traits and curious similarities... Where FFXI is a game without an easily comparable twin?

I don't see how you can sit there and say that you don't see the similarities of many games to WOW when you've claimed to play WOW & FFXI. It's not just that they needed the game to be controller-friendly either, it's that they didn't use WOW as a template to constantly refer back to every time they designed a new system.

Now I'm talking about system design (user interface, battle systems, quest system, drop system, crafting, AH and the resulting community atmosphere) maybe you're talking about lore and how they all have unique story lines, races, and ultimate goals.

If I didn't know different, it's like EQ2, WOW & LOTRO all used the same engine to create their games. It's like how all games developed with Unreal Engine 3 look, feel, react, and work very similarly, from metal of honor to bioshock. They are different and unique games, each with their own story. But it feels more like you're playing an expansion or add-on of the same game rather than a whole new game.

---

i dont know if i can find the quote but they did say exactly that "races wthis time around will have a much smaller effect on how the player wants to play". they said they want people to pick more for the look (they also want people who played FFXI to feel "at home" by recreating their character and it not effecting how they play. if you look through some of the gamescon interveiws you should find it, by they did say they want it to be more of an aesthetic then to define what class you pick.

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There was gear to mitigate the differences between the races pretty well in FFXI. The only real place you would see it is with a Taru vs Galka Paladin. Taru Paladins had virtually limitless hate generating ability from their enormous mana pool (when you did the math, they had 2x the health of a Galka), but since Galka (or really anybody but Taru) had the natural Vitality and high HP pool, they could take the big hits that would instantly kill any Taru. But really, Paladin was basically the only place you saw any measurable difference at all.

---

Forcing you to reroll a new character in order to experience a different class is good business.

---

A) Storage Space - Though there are a lot of ways to get this now without having the alts, it still is nice since you need lower level gear for BCNMs and such. (Should be fixed by allowing the NPC storage of gear sets and special items, giving more space, allowing access to the AH from your mog house and # of items able to be sold upped to 20 - but this isn't much of an issue anymore in FFXI cause a lot of these have been implemented)

B) Growing - You can only have 7 (or is it 10) pots per character. If you farm in your house, you're going to need more space, and thus more alts. Farming can be a huge boon to your pocketbook if you have the time and patience and buck a month per alt. (Should be fixed by allowing 20 pots per account, rather than per character)

C) Crafting - You can only have 40 points over rank 60 of any crafting job. So if you wanted a rank 100 Alchemist, and a rank 100 woodworker, you're going to have to make an Alt. (should be fixed by making crafting work the same as classes. I can take off my alchemy hat, and put alchemy back to rank 60, then I can level up the next one. But always keep the total points used as 40 over rank 60)

D) Play under a different name - If you sling yours through the mud too much or just want some animinity. Although, you could also just switch servers if you care to be technical about it. (Should be fixed by allowing server moves - which they do).

E) Play as a different race - If you just want to see the difference between the races.

F) Roleplay - You want to RP a different character. << This should be the only real reason to ever make an alt. The rest should be stamped out with system design. - But seriously, I've never met a single person RPing in any MMO I've EVER played. Believe me, if I found a single person willing, I'd be busting out my thee's and thou's with the best of them. There's just nobody to play with (and the OOCers would ruin the mood anyway if there was)
 
 
Now the only reason you'd ever need to have an alt, is if you actually want another character, either to RP with or just to experience a new race. Utility alts are dumb, and the result of restrictive system design.

Originally posted by zanfire

 The whole everyone is a hybrid would be fun, but that might ultimatly lead to certain things later in the games life. mainly the whole "this is the best build" and "you need to have this and this and this to do endgame" senario. As long as the hybrid thing doesnt work to where everyone just wants to solo and alot of content still urges you to group im fine with it, i know way to many people that will freak the hell out if this turns out ot be another EZ button solo fest.

Hands down, the best part of FFXI was the multiple classes & being able to switch to any class. It lets you have a single character, not all these dumb alts.

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Originally posted by toddze

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Originally posted by Valendros

TV shows all go down hill when writers start listening to producers. Don't let what happened to Heroes happen to FF, SE. Do it right.

---

 
Off topic:
I cant stand Heros, its a straight rip off of X-men.

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---

Originally posted by ic0n67 
Abbreviations done right ... for the most part.
I'll still throw out there than first off making up a abbreviation like that is retarded to begin with. Equally as retarded as calling game WoW clones to begin with. Some might warrant it. Others do not.
Question for you, Vale: Why do you consider LOTRO a wow clone? Not attacking you or anything; I'm just curious.
Is it because it is
1) in a 3d World 
2) where you look from a 3rd person perpective on your character
3) you have levels
4) you have and icon/action bar to and you use your mouse to click abilities
5) you walk with WASD
6) You have quests
... I am trying to think of more similarities but I really can't.
And i do have to agree with how bad FFXIV will be if they add a whiny  "omg my life is terrible and my wife left me be I got high and had a dream about you so you obviously love me since i'm the guy you never met before but you can't walk and you died and so I found my ex wife and got back with her and I had a serial killer in my head and omg my life is terrible" bitch-ass Matt Parkman ... One truly good episode so far this season ... the one he died. I don't even get a full episode of happiness before they bring his sorry ass back ...
EDIT:
thought of another one
7) Mining nodes

---

LOTRO is a WOW clone because of three main characteristics that I can think of off the top of my head.

1) Interface. It's not just the wasd (as I move with the keypad, anyway). It's the entire look and feel of the game. You have 5 bags for your inventory which pops up identically, the NPC buy/sell/repair screen is identical, the skill icons in skill bars are identical, the group HP bars, targeting, minimap with little buttons around the edges, on-screen xp bar, chat windows... the look and feel of the game is the exact same as WOW. I bet I could make a LOTRO interface that looks so good, you wouldn't be able to tell them apart.

2) NPC-based economy. You sell items specifically given to you for the purpose of selling to NPCs for gold. I think this is the crux of the problem with most WOW clones, and what FFXI specifically did right that other makers should copy IT for. You can have a stable, thriving, and fair game economy with just some hard work on the design stage. a Player based economy is far superior to an NPC based one.

3) Quest-based XP. If you want to level up in LOTRO and WOW, you have quests. You can get far more XP/hour by questing than you can by killing things, or really anything else you can do. WOW is designed that way and LOTRO copied it. This causes solo play to be far preferred to group play as you can level up faster and get far more loot for your efforts.
 
Now if all you've played is EQ2, WOW, and LOTRO, then ya... LOTRO seems like it's not a WOW clone.
EQ2--WOW----LOTRO--------------------------------------------------------FFXI
But if you add FFXI into your experience, it will quickly highlight the similarities.

Originally posted by TweFoju

ya thanks, i kinda get the idea now although i still dont understand that script thing @_@

ill check on that vid later and get back to you, the IT guy in my Studio seemed to lock youtube -_-

 

and what's a windower anyway?

 

is it a term for a FFXI running in a windowed mode because if you alt tab it logs you out?

When FFXI was first released on PC, it couldn't run in windowed mode... and if you flipped back to your desktop, FFXI would close. The idea being it gave you, a PC user, an advantage over a PS2 user since they couldn't look things up.

So somebody came out with an app that would trick FFXI into a windowed mode, then came out with a bunch of plugins for it to give you different things. Viewing your XP/Hr, other's TP meters, and other things in your memlocs that you couldn't normally retrieve through just the game systems (sort of like the hate meter in WOW - but the hate meter for FFXI isn't in memlocs, thank god, still requires a bit of skill to play instead of mindlessly staring at a bar).

SE finially got it into their heads and made the game able to run from a windowed mode, but many people still use the windower because of all the nifty apps it can run.

And yes, most companies do and should block most browsing. If your IT guys are worth their salt, they'd block MMORPG.com when they see it's getting traffic.

Originally posted by neKrow

I am very concerned about this from the E3 Q&A:

Q: What influence have games like World of WarCraft have on the development of FFXIV? 
A: As with WoW, we want to aim a bit for the casual user. However, we don't want to make a copy of WoW. We believe we will have things that are unique and will stand out from that game.

From my persective FFXI was very rewarding because it was not dumbed down. So I guess I am asking:

FFXI was and is an amazing game. This is because of the complexity, not in spite of it.

The problem with coming out with new games is as we all wait for them to be developed, we can't help but wonder what they're going to be like. Are they going to be YAWC (hah!) like LOTRO, or something for the RPers like HJ (if it were actually going to be released) or something complex like FFXI.

I've been playing a lot of MMOs lately and have noticed the influence of WOW on each of them. Except FFXI, since it was released before WOW. Here's the problem... You're a game developer, and you have 500,000 subscribers. You think you did pretty good for yourself. It's steadily dropping, as usual, but you did good. A good solid game and you're getting compensated very well for that hard work.

You look over and see WOW with thier millions of subscribers and now your 500k just doesn't seem like enough to keep you happy anymore. Now you want to take away some of those guys from WOW. How do you do that? Well you make YAWC (hah!), and now you can steal some of those players away! That's the way to do it!

Every single employee on every single game needs to have written on their cubicle or office wall the immortal words of Henry Ford. "If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse". Listen to your customers, SE... Listen to your potential customers... But do what all good games, all good TV shows, and all good products in history have always done... Your own thing.

TV shows all go down hill when writers start listening to producers. Don't let what happened to Heroes happen to FF, SE. Do it right.

Originally posted by ic0n67

Originally posted by Scyris

 I don't want YAWC (Yet another wow clone).

 

WWYMUAAFAPYJMU?TYDSLTWTPIWKOYUIMTIYW.IIUTSTATL;NAWLYD

(Why would you make up an abbreviation for a phrase you just made up? Typically you do something like this when the phrase is well known or you use it multiple times in your writing. It is used to save time and type less; not add words like you did. )

 

To be fair, I've seen YAWC before. Many times...

Originally posted by Scyris

Originally posted by lightning597

The only thing I really want in Final Fantasy XIV is to change the controls similar to WoW and other MMORPG. Like moving with WASD and jump with the spacebar instead of number pad. Numberpad is so complicating, that's what made me quit FFXI within the first week.

This is when you go to your local electronics store and buy a logitech dual action gamepad, its a replica of a ps2 controller for the pc. Problem solved. They are also cheap like 15-20 bucks, I've had one for years and it still works fine.

I got a PS2 to USB adapter and just use my dualshock 2...

Actually, currently I use my dualshock 3 over bluetooth. But that's me.

Originally posted by TweFoju

well i know it will take some times to get used to controlling your character with a Stick

but dont you guys who played FFXI in PS2 used Mouse and Keyboard?

because im sure it will be a whole lot more easier? well i dont really know because i only played FFXI for 2 weeks before eventually going to WoW

but from what i heard, you can use Keyboard and Mouse as your preferable movements on PS2

about the Add-ons, yeah i know that SE does not encourage ppl to use Add-ons and as we see on the game demo on E3, the UI looks simple enough that it shouldn't be hard to control using a stick ( which i hope so )

 

and about the Macros, if SE allows the customization of macros on PS2, then im sure they will be doing it again for FFXIV on PS3 and maybe even more options enhanced into it

 

my question is now tho, i heard that Consoles tends to have a better connection over PC using the same connection, due to the fact that PS3's network adapter is streamlined strictly for doing just that, whereas a PC is not as streamline

*i know it will depend on your connection anyway, but is it really true? that playing FFXI on PS2 have a better connection over PC?

 

because i heard some said so
 

 

Ya, I know plenty of people that played it with a Mouse & Keyboard. I just always preferred the controller. As far as keyboard & mouse on PS2, I never tried it. I had a keyboard of course, but still used my controller.

Lets put it like this. If you want to play with keyboard & mouse, it works fine. But unlike 99% of the games out there today, it isn't just controller friendly, it's designed to be played with a controller (or keyboard & mouse).

Macros on PS2 are very simplistic... example time.

PS2:

\ma "Slow" <stnpc>

\wait 3

\ma "Paralyze" <lastst>

\wait 3

\ma "Blind" <lastst>

That's all you got. 5 lines.

Now with my PC, I can use a script for windower that does a bit more... It makes it so any time an ice spell is cast, it equips my ice gear (fire/fire, water/water, etc etc), and every time I cast an enfeebling spell it equips my enfeebling gear, (elemental, dark, etc), and every time I rest, it equips my resting gear. All automatically.

Now if I cast an enfeebling that's ice based. It equips my ice gear, and my enfeebling gear. I can modify it very simply so that it uses my +enfeebling staff instead of my ice staff with +ice damage because the +enfeebling is more important with that type of spell than the Int and damage is.

Can I do that with the normal macros? Sort of. You can see on that first video of myself, the first two macros I do are to put my gear back on. It took 2 macros to put back on all my gear. And it did switch to my fire staff when I did Firaga III, and ice staff for Freeze, etc. But it didn't switch out all my gear to be ideal for every spell cast.

And that's just gear changes. There's a bunch of little things like that. Being able to see your XP/Hr is extremely important in FFXI. As well as things like the distance to target, your party's TP, on-screen ability timers, and status timers, prevent gear-switching from blinking characters (a big problem in BCNMs sometimes)... as well as more fun stuff like being able to change your appearance to anything you want on your end, or make the system render the entire zone and not just the 100 yards around you. I even had a plugin that would pull up info on mobs from the web when I selected them; elemental weaknesses, aggro/link, drops, etc... All the cool stuff like that I would miss a lot of that if I didn't have it.

Now if SE were smart, they'd include a lot of that in FFXIV, but if they're not I'm sure the windower people will fix it again for PC. But PS3 users will be out of luck for all that stuff.

One Network card is very much the same as any other network card. I've never had an instance where the network was my bottleneck for my PC where it wasn't for my PS2.

HOWEVER. One thing that is pretty clear. The PS2 version of FFXI was run in a MUCH lower resolution, with much lower graphics than it's PC equivalant. So I have had instances where the PC version was a lot more laggy due to my own video rendering and CPU in general, where the PS2 seemed to stay very slick the whole time.

PS3 will probably be much faster than PC if they make it right. Since it does have a lot more processing power than is typically used in games. But if they don't code it specifically for PS3 (and their time-tables seem to point to them not), then it won't take advantage of that and be just as slow or fast as any other PC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmHY_VnuDdE

You can take XBox 360 in this review to mean any typical PC.

Originally posted by GTwander

My problem with FFXI was the mandatory grouping, but damn if it wasn't one of the best games I ever played. The combat stuck true to FF's menu-based formula, and in my opinion it worked, but seeing how the traditional series has shifted with it's combat; I expect a nuance to be in there that I like. As for how this one treats grouping, I can only hope that soloing is not as fruitless as it was in XI, by all means grouping should be more *fluid*, but in the last incarnation it was practically impossible to take on a like target for 50xp and keep going with any kind of useful speed.

Now for what I think everyone is misconstruing about the term "community based" as some link to "mandatory grouping" again, which I think the devs stated they are trying to keep from doing this time, take a look at the site for the game and you'll see something called Guildleves; they are collectible cards (in a sense) that contain a quest goal, and they can be used as you earn them to create your own quest content as a guild. In essence, guilds will be able to figure out thier own quest content, regardless of group size, and hand them out to members. Player-made content in a sense, and that is what they mean by "community based"... that, and maybe some craft stuff and trade/AH market stuff - FF was really community-driven in the last one.

I'm interested in going back to SWG to see how they did their similar "chronicles" quest-making.

You must have quit a long time ago. They fixed solo, a lot. Anybody can now easily solo 4k xp/hr, which was the normal acceptable pickup group xp/hr.

Community based means a lot of things. From being almost forced into groups, linkshells, alliances, etc. To the fact that every item you find can be used in some sort of crafting. To the way the AH, Item Drop, Mobs, Leveling, Crafting, and world systems all center around the player.

FFXI has a true player-based econemy. You hardly sell anything to NPCs, and almost everything you pick up goes on the AH and is quickly bought by somebody. The money goes player to player, not player to NPC then NPC to player. That's a dumb way to do it. The more games I play, the more I realize how well designed FFXI was.

Originally posted by zanfire

as for adding solo content...its perfectly fine as long as its more of a "i only have like 20 mins today so il do a quick quest" or a "I'm LFP and bored so il knock out a quest while i wait" and not a primary or more efficent way of leveling.

A lot of that sitting waiting for a group could have been resolved (and mostly HAS been resolved). WIth the level sync, it was blown out of the water. I hardly ever waited for a group after that. If they let us LFP on multiple jobs at once (hard to code without taring apart the entire game atm), then I would NEVER have been looking for a group for more than 2 minutes.

FFXIV should require grouping on par with FFXI - if you take away that you destroy the game. You take away the problems players had with finding a group, not the necessity for grouping itself. Every memory I have in FFXI is a memory of a specific group. Wheather it was the time I was in an all-taru group that turned into my all-taru linkshell I loved. Or the first time my Taru Paladin got over 15k xp/hr with the 3 monks, bard, and red mage.

Grouping is the right way to go. Solo content should be there, and it should be fairly strong. But it should be only used while waiting for a group.

Originally posted by TweFoju

how about the Expansion? is it using the same style as PC Expansion? like do we install Expansion or we actually change the Blue Ray CD to play the Expansion and all

then about Add Ons, we know Modding or Add Ons will be available for PC

but what about Console? do the Add On will be released for Consoles as well?

if not, doesn't it make the PC user more convenient with all the Modding and Add Ons over Console users?

because obviously in raid, we need some sort of assisting add ons right? and not only in raid, perhaps each class will have it's own add on like in WoW to make the use of skill or any other stuffs easier

then again

do they have a special feature/add ons for FFXI in Console platform that they dont for PC back then?

thanks
 

Expansions - Expansions were done the same way. You'd buy an update, install the software on the PS2, and input a code to register your account for the expansion.
 

Add-ons will be availble for the PC I'm sure. But none of them are 'legal'. Just... sort of tolerated, because everybody uses them (and they can't really trace them). IMO, if the data is in my memory, that's my data and I can do with it as I please. if you don't want me seeing other people's TP, then don't put it on my machine!

There has never, to my knoledge, been a Add-on for PS2 released. Ever.

You don't "need" any add-ons. It's not WOW. Is it easier to see other's TP, or be able to make macros that switch out all your gear every time you perform any action? of course it is. But the PS2 macros worked fine for that, just a bit harder.

I'd say one thing as a bottom line about add-ons. The game is meant to be played without them. The PS2/PS3 versions of a game just enforce that. You can easily play the game without them.

Could I go back and play FFXI without windower and all it's uber glory? I don't think I'd want to.

Am I going to play FFXIV on PS3 or PC? Probably PS3, just because I doubt my laptop will be able to handle it and I don't have the money for a new one, and I only use my PS3 right now for watching Hulu & stuff, so I might as well have it do something more productive. But I'll probably eventually switch go PC... depends on what coolness they come out for it.

They made FFXI in such a way that it was designed to be used by a controller, and I think did an excellent job. Even when I started playing on my PC, I still hooked up my PS2 controller and used it. It was just much easier, I think. But it might just be because I was so used to that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PQH1rnxjUU (my video of my level 70 fight with Maat – I use a controller on PC)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCMbcRAxizw
That guy is doing some uberness. It’s in Japanese, but, you get the idea. He uses both the menu and macros to the effect of doing something that should take 6 people and doing it as 1 hehe.

In FFXI, you had macro sets: 10 macro sets of 10 macro bars, each with a ‘ctrl’ and ‘alt’ bar of 10 macros. It was basically 2000 macros. You could quickly change in between the macro bars. ‘Ctrl’ bar was the L2 button of the PS2 controller, and ‘Alt’ bar was R2. When you held down L2, your 10 ‘Ctrl’ macros came up and it was highlighted on the last macro used. You used the Left & Right on the D-Pad to highlight other macros and then X to execute, or Up & Down to change macro bars. On the PC, you could do Ctrl+#, and it would have the same effect.

You could also select what you wanted to do with their GUI. When you selected a mob (left & right on the D-Pad), and hit ‘X’, you’d get a menu (the menu is in the lower left ‘switch target’ at the top of it). You can select anything your character can currently do from that menu. Magic, Abilities, use items, etc. That is a bit clunky IMHO, but I’ve seen it used to great effect.
You’d think this would be too slow. And if the game was WOW, I think you’d be right. But each action required a certain amount of time to execute and it was very often plenty of time to figure out what you wanted to do next.

Now, looking at the screenshots of the UI, it looks like it's going to be a more traditional WOW-style UI. With that style, I’m not sure how they’re going to do it with the controller to be honest.

 What if the instanced dungeons were all unique for every character/group that entered them? Found in different places each time on the world?

Every time had a unique story, a unique history, a unique lore, unique mobs, and unique treasures you could find there.

Would that be a bit better? Or would you still prefer it to all be the same for everybody, open areas?

 Well, I guess I am asking for a lot. But really I could live with just a game that lets me...

have a unique character (the way I want him)

is a good challenge (I read up on that 'Your Personal Greatest Moments' thread and I, too, remember the mammets...),

has a good story (I know I can't ask for a singularly unique experience with stories written just for me - that's a pipe dream), 

isn't another 'go kill 5 boars', 'go get me 4 boar hides', 'go find the boar that killed my pa' game...

I guess maybe I am asking too much from a game. I want a game where I am unique. My face merges into the crowd too much in real life, I just want somewhere that I can stand out in more than just name.

Every game I play, I lose interest in a few months. I'm not completely sure why that is, but after trying a LOT of games, I've narrowed down my wishes as best as I could... Maybe you guys can give me an idea of what to try next.

1) I like role-playing - Certainly not all the time. There's something to be said for grinding or farming or advancing a story, but I like having my character. And be in his role. It takes me away from my crappy life.

2) I want a character - a unique character. When you see him walking toward you, you know, "HEY! That's Valendros", even if your /names are off. I want to be able to play a little old evil witch, or a spry, wise-cracking elf...

3) I thrive on diversity - I like being able to be the best at something, and then trying my hand at something else, without having to make a new character.

4) I want a challenge - I don't want to be capped in a month. I don't want everything handed to me on a silver platter. I want to work for what I have.

5) I enjoy a unique story - I like storylines. But, call me crazy, I don't care about stories that everybody has already been through. If I knew a storyline was unique, I'd actually read through it. I participate. When it's just another quest storyline that 50000 other people have read, what's the point?

6) I like systems that make sense - Why does that NPC want 5 boar hides? And why does he ask EVERYBODY for 5 boar hides? Wouldn't he have enough hides by now? Why does this NPC want to buy the bow I just found? Is he going to re-sell it? Why would he give me MONEY for a crappy bow that he won't be able to sell and he has no use for? I just want to see a system that makes sense. A fluctuating, living, breathing market causes challenges.

7) Graphics are nice, but not everything - I like spectacular graphics just as much as the next man. But they don't define the game as much as the play does; That being said, I've looked at screenshots of games and tossed the thought of it away just by the cover.

8) I think most of all - I want intensity. I want my heart to pound. I want my palms to sweat. I want to be anxious. I want to FEEL something when I play the game. Otherwise, what’s the point?

So what do you think? What game fufulls some of those criteria?

 http://www.heroshall.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2530

Until funding is re-secured, HJ is no more.