The emulator is not going to get sued not because SOE persuaded LEC to "go easy on them" but because the DUMBEST thing SOE or LEC could do is get themselves into a trial court with themselves and the NGE on one side and the emulator and screwed over players on the other...

Especially considering that it's entirely possible (see my detailed explanation in another thread) that both companies may have commited wire fraud.

If SOE got anyone who was a SWG pre NGE subscriber into a courtroom, the floodgates would open.

No jury is going to side with SOE/LEC as "victims" of anything after hearing the CUNGE story.

It's just SOE playing with what constitutes "medium" or "heavy". I play on Bloodfin, and the population is still very low compared to CU which was lower compared to pre-CU. Pre-CU Bloodfin was usually "light" and sometimes "medium" and it had at least triple the population it has now.

Lots of people are getting free trials again. So that will bump things up a little for a short period of time.

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Originally posted by Harafnir

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Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

That may be true of kids today, but I doubt it. I know that my brother, who was 13 when he started playing MMORPGs, was playing RPGs which require number crunching. I myself, who am 26 now played RPGs when I was a kid that required number crunching. In fact, I think your assessment is fair, as long as they don't include the many kids that do play RPGs instead of action games. So maybe your assessment could be partially true, but if we thought back to our younger days, we would know that even when we were kids, we played number crunching games...even if they were table tops.

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Maybe... If you consider yourself the average kid, a copy of the majority of kids out there. If you think a majority fo kids in the world like number crunching, tabletop RPGs and dislike action games and consoles, then who am I to argue. Go for it, I was way off base.

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My first experience with computer gaming (beyond the Atari 2600) was text based RPG's. My first experience with a RPG was pen and paper AD&D. I was 8 when I started playing text adventures, and 12 when I got into AD&D.

Pre-CU SWG was my first MMO, and is the standard I base my judgement of the genre on. What it had and what you could do in it are my baseline expectations for a MMO.

Unlike early computer RPG's, which have only gotten better, MMO's have been regressing since SWG was CUNGE'd. They are basically becoming single player RPG's with a sub fee that you play (sometimes) with other people.

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Originally posted by Malickiebloo

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Originally posted by Wildcat84

They saw tens of millions of Star Wars fans and came to the conclusion that 200-250K Star wars MMO players were not enough.
Instead of blaming themselves for this (the lack of quality control, bugs, lack of content, over promising, under delivering, and the CU) they decided the players were the problem, and made the decision that it was OK to lose 90% of the existing player base because the new, simpler, instant gratification, easy and WoW like game would draw in some of those millions of Star Wars fans.
It was a deliberate decision, and Freeman has admitted here that this was the decision they made was done in that way. Given how they were saying one thing (speaking of CU profession revamps, and features in the expansion they were trying to sell us) while KNOWING they were doing something else (NGE), I believe that they are past the point of having committed a civil tort against us (ie: can be sued) but may have even committed a CRIMINAL act...
It'd be interesting to speak to a lawyer about this, now that we know that this was a deliberate act, that the existing customer base (many of whom had prepaid subscriptions) was deliberately acted against.
I think that class action against SOE should now be considered.

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What are the criminal charges exactly ? It was a deliberate decision ? That's not against the Law by any means , Nor is changing the mechanics within a videogame .I fail to see any sure means of victory in a case against SOE . There is no garuntee that the game will remain the same Or the services provided will not fall subject to change or cancelation . It says clearly everything within SWG is the property of SOE , That includes any item you may have obtained or any progress made . They reserve the right as owner to cease any and all services provided to you as the customer . You signed agreement to all of these things when you opened up your account , Whether you took the time to read them or not .That alone ensures SOE is able to do exactly what they did , WIthout any danger of suit or criminal charges .

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It's not what they did that crosses the boundries of criminal fraud, deceptive advertising, etc, but HOW they did it.

TOOW and the game in general was a "bait and switch" operation. They also commited fraud in that they misrepresented the direction of the game to existing customers in order to get them to continue paying (and prepaying) all the while they were actually doing something completely different and completely counter to what they were SAYING publically.

We now have one insider on record on this forum that this was exactly what was going on, that they were developing the NGE and KNEW (which is important) their existing customer base (the one they were continuing to pretend that the CU was moving on, ranger revamp was coming, that they were marketing the expansion to, etc) was NOT going to like it and would likely mostly leave. Even worse, they WANTED them to leave, to make room for a completely different customer base.

What makes this illegal, as I said, is NOT what they did (they had every right to change the game, even I will admit that) but how they did it.

Had they been open about what they were going to do, then every customer would have had "fair warning" and could have made informed decisions based on the facts as to whether to re up prepaids, or to order the expansion.

They did not do this obviously, because while they wanted to dump the exising customer base in favor of a new, larger (and more profitable) one, they also wanted the EXISTING customer base to provide the FUNDING to develop it. SWG would have collapsed to sub 20-40K numbers almost immediately, they knew it, and couldn't afford to let the customers "in" on the deal until it was ready to be released, because they needed our money to fund it.

You see, motive and intent are at play here. Their motive was obviously to make more money. Their intent was to do it by willfully shafting their existing customers. They cannot in any way claim that they did it to enhance the game for their existing customers because we already, as I said, have one insider who has admitted that the veteran players were NOT a consideration in the NGE design, and that they knew that almost none of them would like it.

THAT is where they have most likely broken consumer protection laws in state, federal, and local levels in many areas. They misled people in order to receive ill gotten funding for the NGE development, then pulled a bait and switch. The bait were the promises of content, the promises of further profession revamps (ranger, smuggler, CH, etc) that were being talked about publically by SOE practically up to the NGE announcement itself.

That right there is the basis for both tort (civil liability) and possible fraud indictments (criminal liability). I am not a lawyer, but I'd sure love to discuss this WITH a lawyer. Other companies have certainly been sued and prosecuted for similar actions in the past.

SOE's only way out of this would have been if, in addition to offering refunds of the TOOW expansion, they had offered to allow anyone who wished to terminate prepaid accounts with a full refund of unused time. They did offer the TOOW refund, but never did on the prepaid time. It's now, of course, far too late for them to be able to do that and be in the clear.

Considering that a decent percentage of 200,000+ accounts probably at least used the 90 day prepaid option (I had at my peak 4 accounts, 3 of which were 90 day prepaid, and 1 was an annual prepaid), and a lot of people did the 6 and 12 month prepay, you are talking potentially millions of dollars in liability in ill gotten financial gain (by fraud and deception as I illustrated above) which is more than enough to get a class action lawyer's attention when you consider that damage awards can be multiplied in verdicts (treble damages).

About the only defense SOE will be able to mount to mitigate damages, ironically, is that they DIDNT gain from the NGE, that they lost tons of money because of it. ;) But they can't argue away the fraud and deceit they used to make far more money out of it by misleading the customers who prepaid than they were legitimately entitled to.

Yes, consumer protection laws do need to be made specifically for the MMO industry to protect us from unethical companies like SOE and LEC, but SOE and LEC may have broken EXISTING commerce and consumer laws. I'd love to discuss this with an attorney, particularly given Freeman's recent admissions.

Think of it this way:

Company X offers a monthly service which delivers a certain number of filet mignon steaks to you every month per account. They offer a discount on the rate if you prepay in advance for service.

However, while publically making promises to improve the existing service, and the product that currently exists, they are secretly developing a way to make a simpler, cheaper chopped sirloin substitute that they think would make them more money, and are planning to abrubtly substitute it for the filet mignon on a certain date, all the while continuing to take prepaid orders from customers who have been led to believe that their existing product and service would remain the same or get better. Even worse, they take prepaid orders for a special steak gift set (expansion) knowing that shortly after delivery it will be substituted with the new product.

Then they drop 2 weeks notice of the change, offer no refunds on unexpired prepaid time, but grudgingly allow people to return the "special gift set" (expansion), tell people to drop dead, and refuse to take calls from (forum ban) people who protest.

Nope, a company that did that would get sued and likely prosecuted. Why not SOE?

They saw tens of millions of Star Wars fans and came to the conclusion that 200-250K Star wars MMO players were not enough.

Instead of blaming themselves for this (the lack of quality control, bugs, lack of content, over promising, under delivering, and the CU) they decided the players were the problem, and made the decision that it was OK to lose 90% of the existing player base because the new, simpler, instant gratification, easy and WoW like game would draw in some of those millions of Star Wars fans.

It was a deliberate decision, and Freeman has admitted here that this was the decision they made was done in that way. Given how they were saying one thing (speaking of CU profession revamps, and features in the expansion they were trying to sell us) while KNOWING they were doing something else (NGE), I believe that they are past the point of having committed a civil tort against us (ie: can be sued) but may have even committed a CRIMINAL act...

It'd be interesting to speak to a lawyer about this, now that we know that this was a deliberate act, that the existing customer base (many of whom had prepaid subscriptions) was deliberately acted against.

I think that class action against SOE should now be considered.

The first wave of mass bannings hit not long after Virrago happened by here.

Coincidence? I think not.

This is why I think MMORPG and other publisher shill sites are wide open to being made irrelevant by a "by MMO players FOR MMO players" type site, hint hint.

SOE's reputation is so hideously bad that no amount of spin, bannings, deletions, will EVER cover it up.

SOE and LEC underestimated us. Look at where they are now. That is not a threat, but a fact.

About the only thing I got out of Freeman's posts is confirmation of what was the ONLY rationale for doing the NGE the way they did it:

The entire SWG playerbase was deliberately abandoned because they thought they could replace it with a new, larger one, that wouldn't be as demanding.

It's good to see that that kind of complete and utter lack of morals or ethics was not rewarded with success.

And the icing on the cake is that ALL they ended up left with are pre-NGE players and being forced to basically abandon the NGE more with each publish.

The only apology that should be offered and that would be accepted is to give us our game back.

Yes, it's late, yes, they never will get anywhere near the old sub base back, but the move would pay huge dividends in fixing SOE and LEC's industry WORST reputation for shafting their customers.

Until and unless they do this, their businesses will be harmed. SOE will get the NGE question flung at them with each new MMO they release. I already think it's hurt Vanguard, as there is far less trust the game will get to where it needs to be thanks to SOE's involvement.

LEC is harmed just as bad, as there are people who won't buy their other games due to the NGE, and if they even THINK about ever releasing another Star Wars MMO, even if it's 10 years from now the NGE will be dredged up yet again.

MMOs involve trust. Trust that the player can play and the publisher is going to keep the world and the rules consistent so that achievement isn't invalidated. SOE and LEC have breached that trust, and will NEVER get it back as long as they keep stonewalling and denying reality, that they MUST do classic SWG servers. Even if it costs money, the cost in permanent damage to their businesses is far FAR higher.

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Originally posted by Chessack
The whole thing sorta reminds me of something my advisor said when I was working on my thesis. I am in science and in the old days science papers were written in passive voice ("Samples were placed into the drying chamber..."). Today, most journals prefer active voice ("We placed samples into...." ). As a bit of a joke my advisor said, "Well with passive voice you can deny responsibility.... In other words, 'Mistakes were made, promises were broken.'"

This is what it sounds like Freeman was saying most of the time. Yes, he says, mistakes were made. Yes, promises were broken. Yes, those things should not have been done.

But apparently, nobody did them. They just kind of happened on their own. "Mistakes were made, but not by me.... nor by anyone on my staff, nor by my superiors, nor anyone I personally knew at the company." That's the sort of impression I get from his posts. He agrees what happened was wrong, but it's almost like some divine power were making it happen, and no mortals at SOE were personally at fault.

C

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Bingo.

The NGE was a mistake and it was wrong, but on the other hand, no one is responsible for it either, it just kinda happened...

Uh huh...

Freeman was proud of his role in selling the NGE to "the man" when he did it, enough to crow on his blog. To come out now and say that it was a mistake and ethically wrong is to prove all he's truly sorry for is that it failed and didn't become a resume enhancer (rather it became the opposite).

If it is a mistake and ethically wrong now, it was just as much so back then. Why didn't he realize it then? Why didn't ANY manager or producer realize it?

Of course they knew it was wrong to do, but once they made the decision to throw away a couple hundred thousand people because of the $$$ seen in the possibilities of replacing us with millions, greed won out.

In the end, though, only the SWG players are the losers. We never will truly get our game back, ever. Slime like Heliass, Torres!, McDaniel, Smed, and Freeman get to keep their jobs or move on to ruin someone else's game.

Not much in life is fair.

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Originally posted by Shayde
All I heard was "It wasn't my fault, even though I took credit months ago".

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Agreed.

Which is why I got so angry at him.

I see someone trying to revise history because he is working for another company developing another game and doesn't want the NGE baggage following him.

Which is something ALL the Devs of record who were involved with the NGE have to worry about.

I already believe the SOE DC Comics game is going to be the biggest turd spat in the history of MMO's just because a bunch of ex SWGNGE devs are there now in senior positions (Rogue5, Heliass among them). I also am less likely to buy the next big LEC Star Wars game because they moved Tora! Tora!! TORRES!!! there as a producer.

Simply put, when I see names of people who were behind the NGE concept appearing in other games I intend to avoid them.

If they put Heliass, Torres, and Freeman on KOTOR3 I wouldn't buy it. And KOTOR 1 and 2 are two of my all time favorite games.

I suspect I did... I came, I saw, I kicked his ass.

Consider that less than half the stuff they promised last year happened, figure on at least that much if not more not happening this time.

I also doubt they promise enough to impress anyone given they have a FAR smaller Dev team than a year ago.

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Originally posted by iskareot
I have to think at first launch they expected that kind of flame... which in it's own right is fucked up.
Not only did SOE intend on shiting on people BUT THEY grabed extra forum mods knowing it would be bad, in effect actually knowingly pissing people off and then pretty much telling them "tough"...
Ironic that it came to bite them in the ass with subs so low that they now are trying to figure out a way to merge servers lol.
I love KARMA... as I said in my old old posts on the SOE boards.... KARMA is a bitch... it will win and has.... and still is actually, with the awards, bad press and the bottom line it pretty much did as expected.
I did however expect this all to happen approx 4 months sooner though. I was off on the timing of it.
But hey... I am not perfect.... lol
It was funny though.... I swear I saw this posted somewhere... it said.... "SOE you screwed up and in a year or so when your trying to merge servers because of this you will then regret it"......
HA.. how funny

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It's really as simple as this:

They thought that making the game easy + Jedi from the beginning + marketing campaign = 1 million+ casual Star Wars fans jumping in to replace all of us.

They only even started talking to us again when it became obvious that the reaction was NOTHING like they expected or even imagined, and they never anticipated that we'd be loud enough to get press that was so prominent that it easily undid their marketing.

We were never part of the equation, we were expendable. We were to be replaced by a larger player base that had much lower expectations. It turned out that we were invaluable and THEY (SOE/LEC) were the ones that were expendable.

If they thought a dumbed down easy game with free Jedi would bring in a new customer base, the RIGHT way to do it would have been to open up the NGE as an alternate game with it's own servers and left us and our game alone. No one would have had a problem with it, they wouldn't have gotten ANY bad press (well, except that their MMO sucked as a MMO).

SOE/LEC's failure to do what was ethical and moral has cost them millions of dollars. For once pure greed and lack of morals has been rewarded justly.

Now, what SOE/LEC do NOT realize that with respect to MMOs, both companies are tainted UNTIL they do something to "make right" the wrongs of 2005. Until the NGE is put to rest both companies are going to continue to be hurt by it. Allowing the "ducks" to do their thing without suing them is not good enough.

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Originally posted by IcoGames
I don't know Shayde, I don't see folks like Cat just 'having a discussion'. There's plenty of evidence for that at said site.

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The problem I have with Freeman is that it's a LOT easier to "find religion" after you've done a really bad thing than it is to stand for something and not be part of it at the time.

I'd like to believe that he means what he is saying, but most of his revisionism has been thoroughly picked apart already, and he seems to imply (by process of elimination) that aliens from another planet came down and designed, coded, and forced the NGE forward, that absolutely NO ONE at SOE, nor any of the LEC names we named had anything to do with it at all.

I still see someone who has a new product to sell that is trying to reform his image so that his NGE role (which he crowed about in his blog back in 11/05) doesn't harm his career.

I also don't buy his statement that the whole Dev team "knew" that none of the playerbase would accept the NGE... If that was the case, the whole team should have known that quitting would be better for their careers than doing it. If Freeman was one of the ones who thought there was no chance of NGE acceptance, why the glowing, proud, self congratulatory blog entry about how fun he thought the NGE was and how "The man" would never allow it, and that his job was to tell the team that it could be done...

Freeman should have known how this player base would react based on the reactions to the CU itself and the Publish 22 group XP meganerf...

No, the blame isn't on Freeman, Helass, Pall, Smed, Torres, McDaniel, Ward, or any others. It's all the work of "The Man", some mysterious evil entity that has no name.

Sorry, I don't buy his "grassy knoll" explanation. Does the Janitor over at LEC have the authority to force Ward to force Smed to force massive changes on SWG?

Which is more believable, Freeman's blaming of some mysterious entity with no name, or our blaming of EXISTING managers, producers, presidents, CEO's, etc who had the titular positions to actually do this stuff?

Had the NGE succeeded instead of failed, even if everyone left only to be replaced with a million Anakin wannabes Freeman would be singing a lot different tune here, and everyone including himself knows it. He sure was carving a notch on his belt for it back before it was known (by them, we knew it was going to fail the minute the rumor was confirmed and the first of us got to TC). Only now is he stating otherwise.

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Originally posted by Dundee

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Originally posted by Wildcat84

Freeman better get used to pumping gas. Or to asking "you want fries with that?!"
That is your future bro.
If you'd talked like you do now back in 2005 you'd have been a hero.
Talking like that now proves you are a chump.
You aren't on our side. You never were, you never will be. You are a patsy yes man. Well, you learned who the boss really is. Not Smed. US.
You're fired.

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You're a pretty hateful person, you know?

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Yes, when it comes for people like you who only "find God" after you have helped murder people's pasttime.

Making a stand as you have now doesn't mean SHIT. Costs you nothing.

Especially since you have a paper trail of pushing and LOVING the NGE at the time (when it was in your intrest).

You are working for another company now and soon will have something else to sell, something you dont' want tainted by the CUNGE. Well, sucks to be you, because it's going to.

Taking a stand back THEN when it counted when we all did (got me 3 forum permabans) when Tiggs did (got her fired) would have made you a hero.

Words are cheap. You SO moralize. You SO speak what you think we want to hear.

Actions speak louder than words. You once held the "lead designer" title, which Dork Lord Heliass (not qualified to design a taco much less a MMO) and Blixtev "0 bugs in the publish".. Uh, MASSIVE bugs found, don't worry, the hotfix will get them... holds.

Where were YOU when WE needed your voice? When it might have mattered? When Smed dismissed US as the "vocal minority?"

You say your whole Dev team knew the NGE was doomed. Yet NONE of you had the balls to stand up for us.

Sorry, I don't care what you say now. You will do the same to some future playerbase, if you are allowed to hold a similar position for another MMO. My hope is you never make it there again.

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Originally posted by Dundee

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Originally posted by Obee

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Originally posted by Dundee
So that's when, and more importantly why, Brenlo posted, "Some smart guys had some good ideas to make the game better, Jeff being one of them" to say that SOE designed the NGE, we weren't denying responsibility, nor blaming the NGE, and so on.

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So why weren't those "good ideas to make the game better" used instead of the NGE?

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ZING!

Boring story:

I did a lot of soul-searching after the NGE. Months after, I mean, when I wasn't even on SWG any more. I revisited everything I had done (or not done), every design I could have changed, every decision I had made, or could have made but didn't.

Just thinking, "What could I have done, have done, tried to do, or tried to have done differently, in order to make the NGE less painful for the veterans?"

Yeah, you're wondering why I didn't think that 'til months later. Well. There's a reason for it that you wouldn't like, so back to my story...

Eventually I arrived at a design which would have kept the skill system, but still obliterated so many skill mods that a lot of vet's rares and uberjunk would still have been zapped, anything combat-related for sure. CH's and pets would have stayed, but their pets would have been a bit more autonomous. Crafters would maybe have not been completely replaced by loot - just a maybe there - but wouldn't make all the best items, or even most of them. Jedi skills would have been as easy to get as other elite skills, and balanced accordingly. And so on and so forth. Just really savage stuff, but all lesser than what NGE did.

Then I thought about how the vets would have reacted to that: Surprise! It's the NGE, Bob tell them what they've won!

Just the exact same reaction, I'd think.

A year later, we'd still be here, you and me, having this exact same thread. You'd still have asked, "Why weren't those "good ideas to make the game better" used instead of the NGE?"

I don't think a single person here or anywhere would believe me if the answer was "You should have seen what we were going to do!"

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You could have told them:

This sucks, watching paint dry is more fun, it will NEVER go over, and DONT DO IT.

You didn't.

I think the only thing Freeman is sorry for is that it didn't work.

Why didn't he go down like Tiggs did, she posted to the forum about how the NGE sucked and they knew it wouldn't work. She got fired. She went on to a BETTER job.

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Originally posted by Dundee

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Originally posted by Wildcat84

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Originally posted by Dundee
Radical changes like that were unthinkable for 99.9% of game developers before. Now it's 100%.

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Why weren't they for you? It was obvious to anyone NOT inside your office that the NGE had ZERO chance of acceptance. Why didn't any of you think so?

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No one on the dev team thought the SWG players would accept the NGE.

But what I really meant was that is unthinkable because it is unethical. Even if the NGE had been totally sweet, and even if players had gotten over their shock and dismay to eventually accept it, or even if they'd all left but been replaced by a million new players, it's wrong to do that. "Unthinkable."

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So, this confirms exactly what I figured the plan behind the NGE was:

Upper management (Smed/Torres/Ward) basically decided they didn't want a single player that they had, and thought that by making the game ultra easy that the attraction of starting out as a Jedi ALONE would easily replace the 200,000 geeks they had playing and then some with shallow, casual Star Wars fans who didn't want to play SWG because they couldn't instantly have everything they wanted.

That was the whole plan. This also explains why they wouldn't listen to a word anyone said, and to why they thought they would suffer no harm from mass bans, insults, etc, tossed at players. And, this is the rationale behind Nancy saying stuff like they'd be back at pre-NGE sub levels by summer `06.

Even more proof that no one in a position of responsibility should ever be given such a job again.

Of course, why they failed is obvious:

1. The NGE sucked on it's own merit, it was a broken and pre-alpha quality game at release.
2. Anti marketing by jilted customers cannot be overcome by ANY amount of marketing. Of course their marketing (by Nancy, Smed, and Torres) being run by incompetent boobs didn't help, their statements fueled rather than fought the flames.

So... WHY do they not then get together and hammer out how to do classic servers? Giving us our game BACK is and will remain their SOLE way to mitigate that damage, which is going to follow both SOE and LEC around basically forever until they do something to undo it.

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Originally posted by Dundee

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Originally posted by ShiloFields
Fair enough, then:
1. Who made the decision to make jedi a starting profession and thereby invalidate in the in game efforts of the pre-nge Jedi and who implemented it?

The person who implemented it is guilty!?

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6. Who knew about any of the above aspects of the NGE and didn't tell the players?

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Anyone that didn't break the law is guilty, too?

But my guess is, if there is any SWG team member that the players have heard about they fit in one of the above categories. I am not saying the people that fit in those categories are evil or should have their careers ruined, but you can't credibly claim they don't deserve the blame for the NGE.

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Well, then blame everyone for the NGE.

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I think it IS arguable that SOE, and those within SOE/LEC who knew the NGE was coming that were involved in the discussion and marketing of the TOOW expansion quite possibly DID engage in criminal fraud, yes. Managers aware of the NGE who let Devs who were unaware of the existence of the NGE go out and talk about things like the ranger revamp would certainly be party to fraud.

They also were using the money being paid by CU era customers who reasonably expected the CORE CONCEPT of what they were paying for (many paid in advance) would at least continue, especially with new features (such as for CH's) being promoted with the upcoming expansion to develop something that totally tore all that down.

Fraud, deceptive trade practices, false advertisement, amongst other charges might apply.

Indeed, I've often wondered WHY they even bothered releasing TOOW before the NGE, considering that it was in live less than half a month with the CU system. The answer likely is they did it so they'd have a defense against the possible charges I outlined above:

They can claim that since it was released fully functional while the CU still existed they DID deliver the stuff they promised when they were promoting it.

In other words, it is certainly possible that there are potential criminal charges that could be made against those who were involved in the NGE.

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Originally posted by Dundee

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Originally posted by Wildcat84

In all honesty, do I WANT regulation of the mmo industry? No, I don't, there are things that will get worse if this happens. But what makes it inevitable is the same thing that caused every other industry to end up regulated: absolute power to act without oversight, restraint, or limit in ways not in the best interest of their customers (or even industry) eventually ends up being abused.

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You think the entire MMO industry failed to notice what happened, there? Really believe anyone running an MMO is thinking they can do whatever they want, whenever they want, because there won't be any consequences?

Well, that's ridiculous.

Radical changes like that were unthinkable for 99.9% of game developers before. Now it's 100%.

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Why weren't they for you? It was obvious to anyone NOT inside your office that the NGE had ZERO chance of acceptance. Why didn't any of you think so?