Yellowperil, it sounds like you are talking about a CORPORATE enviroment. Do what we say or you are fired. Again, this is why I'm different from game developers. I choose NOT to even work for a giant, evil, faceless corporation in the first place.

You know, this actually causes me to think of that most recent "TRUTH" commecrical I saw on TV. you know the ones I'm talking about, the anti-smoking ads where they ask "do you have what it takes to be a tobacco executive?" I saw one just recently where they were asking a bunch of students questions like "do you want to work in a multi-billion dollar industry" and they were all raising their hand. I couldn't figure out why they were all raising their hands. Who wants to work for these giant corporations in the first place? You don't need to kill half your customers to be evil. Just stealing from them and putting malware on their computers is bad enough in my book.

You know, there are some employeers out there (military, police, goverment, ect.) where just "following orders" so you don't get fired isn't always the end all be all of every situation. In these types of enviroments you are actually legally required NOT to follow an order if it is illegal or contrary to the ture purpose of your orginazation and you are expected to report issues of that nature to the proper authorities. As MMO Doubter said: Some of us have standards... and some apparently don't.

Secondly, I could expound in great detail my opinions on marrage, children, morgages, why its in your best interest not to have any of these things, ect but you sound like the kind of guy who wouldn't listen anyway so I'll make it simple: If you are in a situation in your life where every decision you make must be made exculsively on the basis of how much money it will net you in the end then you have already made some serious mistakes somewhere along the way.

Plus, Agricola makes a good point. You think the CME devs are feeling secure in their ability to support their famlies right now? Think their morgages are being paid every month? Think their retirement plans are going well? How about the guys who did the NGE, think they are at the top of the list of people to hire? Being successful is what pays the bills, not running your company into the ground and pissing off your customers. Not everyone on the gaming industry learns this the hard way but some of them do.

Originally posted by jadonc

Give me crafting or give me death. I want to gather materials, I want to sell them in an easy quick method and have a mailbox that works 99.9% of the time.

P.S. as part of the gathering, I want to BLOW S**T UP!!!

Well...

As for the "blowing <censored> up" part, I think its safe to say Cryptic will deliver on that. Their track record on PvE combat is fairly solid, if not terribly glorious. We already know that STO is going to be very heavy on the combat.

Mailbox? Did you want to be able to send and receive items/goods related to crafting through the mail? No promises on that account I'm sorry to say. CoX has a mail system but you cannot send items and up until recently it was only used by gold sellers to send spam to people (that was recently fixed but only after Cryptic was no longer involved with the game). I don't know if CO has a mail system or not.

Cryptic has said that STO will have ways to trade things with other players. What all can be traded and how it will take place are still totally unknown. Almost nothing is known about the enonomy of the game or how it will work.

As for crafting itself, Cryptic has a fairly poor record in this area. Their games don't even usually have "items" per say... In CoX youi crafted "enhancements" for your character and CO has a similar system. From the sound of things, STO will probably use some similar design. You may be able to "craft" some "enhancements" for your ship but overall I wouldn't really expect a lot in this reguard.

Overall, what you are asking for is a tall order. I would set your sights a bit lower or expect Cryptic to dissapoint you.

On a side note, if you are big on crafting you should probably check out Fallen Earth. Crafting is pretty much mandatory in that game.

Originally posted by ktanner3

it's difficult to learn all that much about the mechanics and structure of this licensed MMO 

Well, I can see they clearly know what they are talking about... or maybe not.

A 10 minute demo proves very little. It doesn't prove the game feels like Star Trek. It only proves that atleast ten minutes of the game which the developers allowed to be released feels like Star Trek to some guys in europe who are being paid to promote the game. As for the other 500 hours you will spend preforming repetitive missions to max out your character, who knows?

Oh no...

It says...

HES THE ZODIAC KILLER!

Originally posted by Warlord711

[Various childish remarks about the United States.]

And these insults are coming from the guy who apparently doesn't know what an apostrophe is for.

Originally posted by Thomas2006

A: The only thing Cryptic is looking for is people to play through the content and post there suggestions on it.  

B: At this stage of the game all the key systems have already been nailed down.

C: The graphics engine has already been tested fully (its the same engine CO uses). ... Thats the exact same way they tested CO and thats how they will do STO.

D: The only thing they are looking to test is if the game is fun or not. If its not fun then they are looking for suggestions on how to make it fun.

E: Beta Testing has shifted far and away from actual game testing.

A: Which means the testers don't need to know what they are doing I guess?

B: Really? And you know this HOW exactly? I guess you have played the game from start to finish and know that everything is totally finished and ready to go?

C: Right... because we all know that there are no bugs in CO...

D: I can give them some suggestions right now! But if the game isn't fun at this point they are probably screwed!

E: Yes, thats exactly the problem and why so many games these days release as half-finished, buggy, unstable messes. You know... AoC... Warhammer... Darkfall... Dark and Light... Shadowbane... ect. There is a reason why beta testing should be used for TESTING and not to promote the game.

Originally posted by yellowperil

I think you mean shady publishers or development houses, I'm sure you don't mean the actual developer staff, these people are just like you and me, and make no such decisions on what management do or say.

Well I don't know you well enough to speak for you but I can assure you that they are NOTHING like me. Mainly because I don't choose to work for a giant, evil, greedy, international corporation.

The whole "I was just following orders" excuse doesn't fly with me. I know this is a worn out example but its still the perferct example: The NGE. When Smedly came down to my cubicle and said: "The 200,000 customers we have now isn't good enough anymore. Change the game to make more people join, even if it means all our current custoemrs quit." I would have quit working for SoE right there on the spot. We know for a fact that was what happened because of Dan Rubenfield's infamous 'go eat a <censored> rant' where he directly said:

We told them. "If you do this, you will lose all 200k subscribers. It is that significant."

It was explained that we would gain more due to the marketing push and relaunch.

Now, if I was a developer at SoE and my boss gave me an order to do something which would cause all 200,000 of our current customers to become very angry and quit the game I WOULD NOT DO IT! And that is why these game developers are nothing like me. The publishers and other people you balme for making these decisions only get away with it because the developers are willing to do what they ask. In my mind, that makes them just as bad as the people making the decisions.

If someone asked you to murder another human being and you did it, would the person who asked you to do it go to jail? Maybe. But so would you.

You know, I agreed with Warlord right up until he made that racist remark about the USA. There are idiots in every part of the world and I'm sure your country has just as many of them as any other.

Meanwhile, I do agree that Cryptic shouldn't be choosing beta testers based on who can make the most posts on their forum, type the fastest in a chat room or shell out the cash to subscribe to a totally different game for six months. They should be looking for people who have been in beta tests in the past and understand how the process works. Its one thing to start letting a lot of people end towards the end of beta to test the game and get people interested in it. But beta just started. At this stage of development they should only be looking for people who will actually help them TEST the game, not just any random idiot off the street who would like to play beforeanyone else.

Originally posted by yellowperil

If and when beta resumes I can honestly say that it will not be a paid for beta...

Beta is just the opposite of stable product, the servers will and maybe only operational at certain times, and the people paying would expect that they are listened to, and anything they say should be heard.

While its true that paid betas are bad things and they tend to piss off the people who paid for them only to discover they got a broken and worthless product, that doesn't mean it can't happen.

Plenty of the other games have done paid betas. Mortal Online is doing some kind of paid beta thing right now. Dark and Light also had a paid beta test but attempted to disguise it by calling it a "pre-release" of the actual game, however it was undeniably a beta test since only about 10% of the game was open, most of the content was unfinished and it was buggy as hell. I still have doubts that Shaowbane ever left beta testing, despite being on the market for something like six years (and being in development for nearly ten years before that). More and more companies are also doing those deals where you have to pre-order the game from Gamestop and/or sign up for some other crazy online service to get into their supposedly "open" beta test.

So yeah, paid betas are bad, but there are plenty of shady developers out there who won't hesitate to resort to that kind of dirty tactic in an attempt to earn a profit on a game they know will never be truly finished. And do you really think Gary and his crew are more honest than those other guys? REALLY?

Originally posted by ariccaron

Originally posted by aleos

 i think we can expect a paid to play beta test in the form of a one time fee to participate in beta.

 They would actually have to produce code for that.

Yeah... I don't think we should expect ANYTHING at this point. The story here has reached its end or something very close to it.

I suspect this game will be the next Duke Nukem Forever. The devs will continue to tell us they are working on it but it will never be released. And slowly, quietly, over the course of the next several years, we will all forget this game ever existed.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Rush would be interesting if he wasn't throwing tantrums all the time. It's like Harold Zoid is directing him. "Emote!"

I hated BSG, and any similarity is a negative in my books.

The show would be better if Harold Zoid was directing. Aleast there would be people dancing and throwing pies in the background. ANYTHING to distract from the depressing attitude of every single character on the show.

I also hated BSG and I can't understand why this show is so obviously trying to copy it. Depressing characters, bizzare plots and sex were never what the Stargate shows were about.

If you want to watch a soap opera then go watch one. But don't try to turn every other show on television into one.

Originally posted by ethion

An open game isn't designed with any limits or constraints.  UO and Vanguard are examples.  I don't recall but I think AC was like this too. 

Yes, Asheron's Call was also an open game. You could travel all the way from one end of the world (and the world was HUGE) to the other end without seening a single loading screen, although it would take you a very long time to travel over that distance. The only times you saw loading screens was logging into or out of the game and when you used a portal.

Originally posted by FishyHat

A: i can have a stance on the subject, as long as i don't discuss it or have a discussion about it, or rather, as long at it agrees with your stance?

B: people can read opposing sides without being swayed one way or the other on trying out a game.

C: that's rich coming from somebody who knows that there isn't going to be a PC ship crew yet still harps on the subject.

A: Yes, thats pretty much what YOU are trying to tell US. I think you understand your own point of view now. When you come in here, SAYING you want to hear opinions, but then declare that you have made up your mind already and are going to argue with everyone who doesn't agree with you, that is pretty much what you are telling us: That our opinion doesn't matter and you have only come here to tell us about how wrong we are. I don't really CARE if you came here just to argue, thats fine. I understand thats why people come to this forum. I just want you to admit that you are only pretending to be open minded as an excuse to argue.

B: But why bother? WHY BOTHER? If you already have made up your mind (even though you keep claiming we can't make up our minds until the game is out) why ask for opinions? Again: Its like asking for a trial by jury then ignoring the verdict. You don't really care about our opinons. You just came to argue, just like all the rest of us.

C: This proves you don't care about our opinions because you don't even know what mine is! I have NEVER ONCE asked for ship crews. Not once. I don't approve of Cryptic's casual gamer linear randomly generated instanced design for this game but that doesn't mean I've ever asked them to add ship crews. I've argued aginst the people who try to say ship crews are impossible, because I beleive it is possible (in fact I know for a fact it is possible because I can name other games which have done it) but that doesn't mean I have ever asked for them. If you had actually read any of my opinions that I have posted on this forum you would know exactly what my real complaints with Cryptic are. But the fact you just try to lump me in with the ship crew crowd proves that you are only here to pick a fight.

If you are here to argue thats fine. I know thats what this forum is for and I'll gladly argue with you day and night if you wish. But what I want from you first is for you to admit that you don't care about our opinions, you just came here to defend the game because you already know you approve of it.

Originally posted by FishyHat

I've taken up the Crypitc side 

i'm actually going to play the game before making a decision on it

i'll read what you have to say and if i disagree i'll post

See, this is what doesn't make sense about your post.

You SAY you want to hear our opinions...

...but apparently only so you can disagree with them!

And after that you say "BUT I'M GOING TO WAIT UNTIL THE GAME COMES OUT TO DECIDE"  just to make sure that nobody can argue with your opinion... apparently only you are allowed to disagree with people but they can't disagree with you without being hit with the old "your opinion doesn't count cause you haven't played the game yet" stick.

If you have truly decided to wait until the game comes out then fine, go ahead and wait. But don't then come in here and ask for our opinion on the game just so you can disagree with us. Again: Its like bringing a jury to a trial and then telling them their verdict doesn't matter. If it doesn't matter to you, don't ask the jury for their verdict in the first place.

So pick a side. Either you are here to talk about the game because we have enough information to make a decision. Or we don't have enough information to make a decision and there isn't any point in talking about it since that would be a waste of time. You can't have it both ways.

Originally posted by neorandom

 i dont care how much you love old shakeyspear if you dont find beavis and butthead funny you just dont have a sense of humor man!

*facepalm*

It was just an EXAMPLE, a metaphor. There is nothing wrong with Bevis and Butthead. But giggling every time someone says a dirty word, never having sex and being stupider than dirt can only be entertaining for so long. At some point you should either be looking for more out of your entertainment... or you might just end up as one of the people who thinks STO is going to be fun.

Originally posted by Cecropia

The IP itself has a global following. Anyone developping it into an mmo basically doesn't have much of a choice other than to appeal to the masses. STO was never supposed to be competing with EVE or anything like that if thats what your were hoping.

Global following? So I guess you are saying that no matter where you go on the face of the earth people still have bad taste in video games and just want to watch pretty explosions?

I don't want them to COMPETE with anyone. Thats the whole point. Instead of doing their thinking with spread sheets and bank statements I want them to think with their brains and make a GOOD game, even if that means the majority of people on this planet will be too dumb to understand it.

In other words I want the Shakespeare of video games! Apparently those of you fighting to defend this game would rather have the Bevis and Butthead of video games... Well Cryptic is more than happy to give it to you.

Originally posted by FishyHat 

I like to read what other gamers thoughts are on a paticular game.

You claim you like to hear opinions on this game and yet when we give you our opinion you launch into a rant about how our opinion doesn't matter because we obviously don't know anything about the game and can't judge it until it comes out. But if our opinions don't matter why do you want to hear them? What kind of sense does that make? It would be like bringing a jury to a trial and then completely ignoring their verdict.

Originally posted by ericbelser

Personally, I'm a cynic. I think they went with the "player as ship" because they are cheap and lazy and it's a lot easier to code than most of the alternatives...heck can virtually paste over half the mechanics from flying superheroes firing freeze rays to flying starship avatars firing phasers.

And they reused the game engine from CO. Its pretty clear what they have in mind for this game.

Ugh... bots! Nasty.

And pointless in FE, since most people can buff themselves. Half the buffs come from food, drink, meds, ect and the other half from skills which the majority of people already have. So a buffbot would just be a waste of effort.

Don't do it.

@Vlad: We anwsered your question. There most likely will NOT be a collectors edition since the company will probably not offer any retail version. The game will most likely be digital download only. Atleast, that is what we THINK will be the case. Nobody knows for sure yet.

The converstaion naturally turned to digital downloads because that is the format we believe the game will be released in.

But since you are going to WHINE about it, I'll send my reply to whats-his-name in a PM. Sheesh.

Originally posted by quitmoaning

Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

Originally posted by yavozerb

man, it's "star trek" build it, and they will come.....

 I'm betting that's just what the makers of Matrix Online said.

 I'm betting thats just what the makers of WoW said. 

I'm betting thats what the makers of Star Wars Galaxies said...