To the OP: interesting topic and a lot of good discussion in this thread about people and motiviations.

My general feeling is that there are many kinds of game players out there, and some of them have very different tastes in what they want from a game.  That being said, I've purchased as many games (MMOs included) as probably anyone in general, and I've not hated a single game I've owned.  Some games I've gotten bored with, some games frustrated me at times, and some games were broken and wouldn't run on my computer.  I chalked it up to experience each time, and moved on to other products. 

One thing I have a problem understanding is why people think that venting about their "issues" with a game in a forum not followed by the developers is useful to anyone else.  I am perfectly fine with topics of discussion that explore various peoples tastes and preferences in game play styles.  I certainly believe that negative comments about a product stated in an unemotional, factual, and constructively critical way can be useful for future game developers.  However, many people are commenting here not about issues that can be managed as a released game goes forward into it's lifecycle, but fundemental design decisions that were made long in the past as far as a game product is concerned. 

I think a lot of this unconstructive negativism comes from people who have unrealistic expectations about how a particular product will make them feel.  Be it a TV show, a movie, a book, a video game, or a political candidate; for some reason they need to hope that product will change how they feel about their life.  Someone making a product responsible for their personnal happiness seems to me to be a self defeating way of managing themselves.  However, our commercial marketing based society keeps trying to convince us the only way to achieve happiness is to buy the product they are currently trying to sell you. 

I also think a breed of extremist personality exists among these relatively average people who like or dislike a game product.  They can't just be indiferent or enjoy a product, they must obsessively dwell on the negative or postive aspects of a product as if their life depended on their conviction.  These are people of "faith" if you will, and their product of choice is their religion.  They have their golden calf, and all other idols are a threat.  Sometimes they change religions, but their new "faith" is frequently more rabid than their last.  These people engage in "fanboy holy wars" attacking other beliefs, and defending their own. 

Another personality present in these (and other) forums is the basic "Internet Troll".  They don't care about a particular product, or any other person.  However, they are wired to get their enjoyment from the misery of other people.  This is the personality that ganks newbies in games, and griefs other players with ninja looting or spam.  They live to drive other people away from their chosen "nesting ground", be it a forum, or a game server.  You can try to fight them on their own terms, you can ignore them, or you can call them on their behaivor.  They will often try to hide among the "fanboys" and the "haters", but they are really neither.  They would actually have to care about the product to qualify for those categories.  They just want to cause unhappiness in others, plain and simple.

I fall into the catergory of people who like playing WAR, but I don't love it.  The game isn't the perfect form of entertainment for me, and I don't mind that fact.  I'll have fun playing it until I get bored with it.  Then I will play something else.  There won't be negativist posts from me here deriding the product or it's producers.  I have a realistic understanding of my tastes as a gamer, and WAR is providing what I expect in a game experience from a product of it's type.  If anyone else doesn't like what it is, I recommend they move on to play something they do like, instead of dwelling on the negative aspects of the game.  You'll be a happier person if you learn to let go of your negativism and continue with your life.

I hope this helps.

Originally posted by Aethios

Originally posted by EvolvedMonky

Originally posted by Aethios

No, it's the activation key from the box kit. As far as I can tell, it's the only key in the box. I had the "O = Q" problem with my pre-order a few months ago, but this particular key has no Os or 0s in it at all.

 

Take it back. Ive had a few games throught the years that keys dont work.

That always solved em.  But the reg key support cant be as bad as Micro$ofts. I always cuss at it or add comments when it asks yes or no. Makes me feel good inside.

 

This is what I've been trying to say though; the key itself seems to work fine. I just can't get through to the next page. If the key were broken, it would pop up on the page and say "that key doesn't work" or whatever, but it goes through just fine. I don't know if it's latency or they just don't like Firefox or what, but the site is slower than dirt.

I'm not certain, but you might try an alternate web browser.  It's certainly possible that Mythic's commercial web account management site is only compatible with someone else's market dominant web browser product.  If that doesn't help, I'm short on other advice.

Originally posted by AstralGeth

WAR fans can continue to mock "whiners" but in the end, paying customers want to get some sense of two way communication between themselves and the developers. Criticism is important, even if it's not constructive. Otherwise, you will keep hearing garbage like the last Dev Q&A chat. A sample of how they lobbed out a few softball questions on some of the biggest complaints of the game:

"Question: Gate28 (gate28): Your new chat system is amazing, but it has a single drawback. Will we be able to share items though links in chat sometime in the future?

Answer: That is definitely a feature that we feel would be a positive addition to the game."

Some non-constructive criticism for you - you are wrong.  Did you find it helpful?

Originally posted by Loke666

I think it was time that did old DAOC in. Things ages and after a few years it's time for something new, that will happen to War to sooner or later, and every other game for that matter.

Computers are getting better all the time and while some poeple still have a C-64 at home, most of us want newer stuff. Wow seems to still be doing alright after 4 1/2 year but they will start declining sooner or later also.

Anyways, Mythic could have learned more from DAOC concerning balance between sides. Also I don't really like that all Chaos followers and greenskins seems to be best friends with eachother, some scenarios with infighting between them would maybe bring out some intresting fights.

DOACs several sides made balancing easier than with just 2, maybe they should have made greenskins a 3rd side and call destr for Chaos instead.

2 sides are very tough to balance, ask Wow or EQ/EQ2. It doesnt matter so much in a PvE based game but in WAR you need balance to have a fun time, if destr always wins things get boring.

This is not unfixable anyways and all new MMOs have their faults but Mythic must have knowed about the imbalance since the beta and they did solve it better in DAOC.

I agree with you to a degree about the desire for an additional level of conflict.  However, I would like to see a third side (much like with DAoC) come into the mix as an un-aligned party.  I think the Skaven would be a good foundation race to start with on this concept.  While favoring neither Order or Destruction, they could be willing to opportunistically take advantage to the disruption caused by the conflict to serve their own nefarious purposes.  This third faction would definitely be a good option to add another factor into the overall mix, and could provide the level of complex interplay you are talking about.  I'm hopeing that Mythic is considering the possibility with a future expansion set.

I hope this helps.

Originally posted by madmax286

You are comparing a PvE centric game with a PvP centric game here.

I mean isn't it obvious from a certain point of view that each game will be better in it's specified area?

I have played both games (Lotro more extensively since war is quite new) and I believe both are excellent products personally. Both these games are directed towards specific players..... One has excellent PvE ( quests at least are very well written) while offering elements of  PvP (One limited PvP area which does the trick) . The other has excellent PvP ( I mean RvR is a new experience for me and I must say I'm very pleased) while offering elements of PvE ( The tome of Knowledge feature is very good and the setup generally does the trick)

One thing though which we should take under consideration......War is a new game.

We generally don't know the extend of PvE in War yet. I've heard stories of Heroes/ Lords hidden away in Lairs.Dungeons (although limited) which players havent visited yet  Questlines being unlocked through Tome of Knowledge and exploration. Various things.......

Give the game some time to evaluate its PvE status (....same goes for PvP btw) but as it stands right now I believe War is offering adequate content towards the PvE fans.  

 

You are making good points here.  While I have enjoyed playing both LorRO and WAR, both bring a different game experience to the table.  If I want to play against my fellow human beings, while cooperating with a group, WAR has the superior PvP/RvR gameplay mechanic.  If I want to cooperate with a group to complete an epic PvE storyline, LotRO has the superior gameplay mechanic.  Both games will let you grind if deed / Tome kill count unlocks are your idea of play fun.  LotRO has a more involved crafting mechanic and economy.  WAR has a more immersive sense of in your face peril.  LotRO has a generally more immersive storyline, though the WAR storyline is certainly adequate for the task at hand.   LotRO is a bit more sandbox, WAR is a bit more focused and linear.  

All of this is a matter of personal taste.  If the OP knows which of these games is more suitable to their personal enjoyment, then that is what the OP should be playing.  There are no hard feelings from those of us who understand that these are just games for entertainment, and different people will enjoy different things.

I hope this helps.

Originally posted by 69Cuda

Originally posted by zmortis

 

 p.s. If you need me to explain to you why real Tanks are  Defense in the real military I will do so too.

 

In regards to this line at the bottom I would like to input here that a Tank is a tracked, armoured fighting vehicle designed for front-line combat which combines operational mobility and tactical offensive and defensive capabilities. It was designed with the purpose of giving battle line commanders the means to punch holes in enemy defensive lines/formations. Modern tanks command kilometer wide areas of responsibility on a movemnt basis , aquire target engage shift position target engage repeat while moving FORWARD. 

Combined with infantry and support assests creating the modern combined arms elements of todays military the tank is still considered and used as a shock element to destroy forward heavy opposition in a MOBILE OFFENSIVE capacity. Diggin a Tank in and using it as a static defensive platform is generally considered a holding action (i.e. oh shit hunker down or a holding action due to a political descision) making the tank a very expensive LARGE target to todays militaries. This is a SUPER short version feel free to do alittle reseach yourself before spouting more of this nonsense. Janes Defense or even wikpedia are you friends.

 I don't particularly care about the argument at hand but wanted to point out this statement. Feel free to dispute it if you like by posting your Branch of Service, MOS specialty and personnal tactical experience on the battlefield to do so. Say any one of the U.S. Military operations involving Armor in Bosnia, Somalia, Honduras or the forward armor engagements of Iraq (either war present or past)and/or Afghanistan will suffice.

Sorry for the rant.

P.S. Warhammer Rocks lol. Fukn loving this game.

I never said defensive action has to be stationary or avoid engagement with the enemy.  However, since you are a big fan of Janes Defense you will understand that a tank has no where near the offensive power of a Ground Assault Aircraft.  Put your lone rogue unsupported Tank against a C-130 Spectre Gunship and who wins the fight?  Those Air Assault platforms are the true offensive power of the modern Military, while the Tank is only used for short range capture and hold manuevers and is highly dependent on direct infantry support.  Of the two, the tank is much more vulnerable if they get out of range of their immediate support mechanism.  They have to work very closely in concert with their infantry support mechanism.  The Ground Assault Aircraft has a much greater range of unsupported action compared to a slow Tank, especially when mixed with the Air Superiority fighter.  When someone takes a tank away from their ground support in an area where the enemy has Air Control the Tank Dies, regardless of how hard a lone mechanic tries to keep it operational.  That is the point I am makeing.  Rogue solo or even two man operations are no where near as effective as combined strategy.  You tell me what happens to a military that does not work in concert with each other since you are an expert in all things military.  I don't need to have been a supply MOS to understand the support mechanism is as important a role as anything else in the military.  Without it the military dies.  When you leave your logistics and supply vulnerable, undefended, and under assault tell me what happens in a military engagement?  When you ignore the mission objective in favor of chasing random guerilla forces because it's more fun, tell me what happens?  I can tell you if you don't know,  You lose the fight!

I hope this helps.

p.s. I am also enjoying playing WAR, but for me PUGs with solo minded players are no where near as fun or effective as when I am with a coordinated Guild Group. 

p.p.s. I am playing a Rune Priest as my main, and if I ignore healing in a group, in favor glory DPS, my group suffers for it.  It's certainly ok to drop a DOT or DD when you're good on action points, and everyone is healthy, but if you don't or can't heal when you're needed, you're next to useless to the group as a whole.

Originally posted by Steelguru

Originally posted by Rytif

Originally posted by zmortis

First Tanks, keep your healers and buffers clear of agressive attack.  Your role is not killing opponent players.

 

OMFG, somebody just said this? You are kidding me right? Seriously, you have to be pulling somebody's leg here. Ah, well here it goes.

You are an idiot, TANKS are TANKS. TANKS take DAMAGE. In order for TANKS to take DAMAGE, they must ATTACK the opposing team, so they are in other words TANKING. You are not TANKING when you sit beside the healer nor are you going to save the healer because you lack damage. TANKS are suppose to force players to damage them, which is why they go after key target healers. The DPS defend healers, TANKS do not defend healers. You will lose, because DPS cannot take enough damage to eliminate the opposing team's healers.

Please god, don't give information out. Or atleast PvE information.

GRRRRRRRRRRRR!

 

LOL, wish my IB buddy was on the boards to give you a few lessons.   Ever hear of knockback, snare, collison detection?   A decent healer doesn't need a whole helluva lot of breathing room to stay alive.   Especially when at next level I'll be getting an AoE knockback of my own.    Heck, my friends even warn me on vent before I even get hit half the time ("Incoming east" or "Behind you" or "Witch elf just stealthed at the bridge....MOVE!")   and tell me where to run, and take care of business from there........and they'll kill the targets before the targets can kill me FTW.   Please stop sucking.

EDIT:  He is wrong about tanks not being there to kill though......I fully expect my IB fiends to both lead DPS and protect me as a healer.   Same way I heal and DPS......if someone is playing one-dimensional then they aren't taking full advantage of their class.

I see for Rytif that he thinks that tanks are offense, fine, you can certainly play that way.  However, if the defensive role is playing offense, and the offensive role is playing offense, I don't see why the support role shouldn't also play offense, by your theory more offense is the best solution to any  PvP problem right?  Oh wait, that is what the OP was posting about to begin with, too many people playing offense instead of understanding their role. 

Most hit points and best armor = Defense.

More damage = Offense

Healing / Buffs / Debuffs = Support.

I don't understand why that concept is so hard for people to understand, but lets use the American sport of Football to explain.

The Tank is the lineman.  The lineman is the big heavy guy who can take a lot of abuse without help.  His job is to protect the Quarterback (aka the healer/support character) so the healer can get the ball to to the Receiver (aka the DPS) whose job it is to get a first down (aka rack up a kill) or score (aka achieve an objective).  From my "Quarterback" postion as a healer in the game the problem I see is that all my Receivers run out for the ball, and all my lineman run out for the ball, then they all scream throw it to me, throw it to me!!  They are all trying to score while I'm being sacked by the other team.  One total party wipe later everyone is yelling at the healer for not healing them when it was an impossible task under the pressure of an unblocked blitz.  So if you tanks insist on being the receivers because you're big, and hard to tackle, it's true, but the DPS guys are crap for taking blows, and the healer can not effectively use them as linemen.  So once again you fail because the tank insists his role is Offense because he only wants to serve himself instead of the team and score for the "big win". 

You can certainly play WAR that way if you like,  A football team can play a game that way too.  They will just be disapointed with a series of losses, and blame the game for being unfair, when it's them that doesn't understand how to play the game to win.  When I'm grouped with my guild mates with tanks who understand tanking as defense, and healers who understand healling as support, and DPSer who understand DPSing Offense, we consistently win scenarios and other roughly balanced PvP action.  If you don't want to benefit from my advice as to why we have consistent success, that's certainly your perogative.  Just don't come whining here that as a healer I don't "play right" when as a Tank you try to play as a receiver.

I hope this helps.

 p.s. If you need me to explain to you why real Tanks are  Defense in the real military I will do so too.

A good question by the OP, Why should a healer heal? But only 1 part of the whole picture being left out here. 

I like to use a very simple example of Roles in Combat that really does work in a smart group.  I call it Rock - Paper - Scissors. 

Rock = Defense = Tank

Paper = Support = Heals/Buffs

Scissors = Offense = DPS

When everyone goes on offense against a coordinated opponent, the team loses.  When the tank does not concentrate on keeping agro off the other classes, the team loses.  When the DPS does not work together with the other components, the team loses.

First Tanks, keep your healers and buffers clear of agressive attack.  Your role is not killing opponent players.

Second Healers/Buffers, keep your group alive/optimized,  Your role is the center that holds a successful party together.

Third DPS, focus together on a common target until they are dead, don't leave your support behind chasing a target disengaging from combat.  Your role is to kill the opponent players that are a current threat to your team goals.

All three - understand the scenario objectives and work together to achieve them.  Individual kills are generally meaningless.  Winning objectives gets your side the Realm Points.  Work together instead of as a pack of lone operators.  The win and glory go to the team that works together by understanding each role, not just by having everyone try to play offense. 

If your healer is behind your "lines" and dieing, someone or everyone is not doing their job as a part of a ballanced team.  If your team is unballanced because no one wants to play support or defense, you will always lose to an organized opponent who understands those functions.

I hope this helps.

Originally posted by Goldknyght

Originally posted by zmortis

 

Warning - Sarcasim alert - not a reflection of my actual opinion.

I'm glad to hear that you are not a hater.  To read your posts in the forum someone might be confused on that point, and your clarification is useful.  I take it you are claiming to be a defender of the people, protecting us from companies who deliver games by neglectfull lazy careless developers out to make a fast buck.  I never realized, through all the fun I was having while playing Warhammer, that I was mistaken because it is a broken flawed product that no one can enjoy.  I'm glad you're here to do your job of pointing out how wrong I am to enjoy playing Warhammer. 

Sarcasim off.

While I agree you may not be a hater in general, all your posts in this thread have not been an insightful constructive critique of what could be done to improve Warhammer.  They have been attacks on other people who say they like the game.  I'm pointing out to you now in a constructive manner that whatever you think you are doing to improve the MMO community at large, your approach here is not successful.  Calling devlopers names, fighting with the fans of products, nit picking here about technical specifications, ect.  - none of this is helpful in producing a better product in the future. 

Obviously this product is not what you want.  If you really wanted to actually be useful to someone, instead of crying about how you don't like something here, why don't you head to the forums of a company with an MMO in progress, and guide them in avoiding the mistakes which are so obviously being made by every other developer in the market. 

Bitching about WAR here is like being a child crying over spilt milk, it's just too late after launch to change the course of an MMO that has a design with which you don't agree.  You could reasonably point out some polish issues, but there is already an in game mechanism for doing that in WAR.  So the people playing the game (aka the paying customer) are going to be the only ones with a direct voice to the vendor.  If you don't like the product well enought to play it, why should Mythic or any other developer take your advice on what everyone playing it wants. It's put up or shut up as far as Mythic is concerned, and I applaud the approach they are using because it allows them to focus on the actual paying customer. 

So that leaves you sitting in a fan forum, stirring up trouble and doing nothing productive.  If that's how you get your kicks, that's fine.  I get my kicks by playing WAR, and by pointing out when people are just stirring up trouble in fan forums instead of doing something useful. 

I hope this helps.

 

You seem to not grasp even the most easiest of understandings.

If you and the OP want to know when the nit picking will stop, it will stop when the person hating on a nit picker stops responding to a nit picker. That was my first post in this thread. It was a true answer and a correct one. You think that if you say something to a nit picker that he is automatically going to stop the nit picking? i hope not. Now a nit picker is going to point out what the developer left out in his opinion to what the situation is. Having that said the nit picker will point out the laziness in a developer. He will have people who agree with him and he will have people who dont agree with him. Just because you dont agree doesn't make you king of the mmo world. You are a peon that pays 15 dollars a month for sub-par service but refuse to accept it. But of course your arguement will be well you cant please everyone which of course brings us back to what this is all about. Nit picking. Nit pickers want to nit pick, doesn't mean they wont play just means this is the little things that frustrate them and therefore nit pick. So if you just ignore a nit picker the nit picking will stop because he will not have a audience to cater to him/her. Which brings us back to the answer to the OP's thread. A nitpicker Will Stop when a Hater of the nit picker stops talking and ignores the nit picker.

You are correct I don't futilely grasp at the "easiest of understandings".  The reason is that the "easiest of understandings" is quite frequently not the most successful answer.  If the good things in life always came easily to everyone, we would all be playing the "MMORPG to rule them all" by now which would be able to satisfy every potential  player's desires.  There would be no conflict in the world, and everyone would be wealthy and satisfied with their lives. 

Let's return to reality now.  There is no such thing as a perfect game for everyone!  There will always be something about a particular game to which someone will take exception.  This is not because of "sub-par" products, or lazy developers.  This is because of spoiled people who think that because they have an opinion, the whole world should run the way they think is "right". 

I certainly believe people should have opinions.  I also believe there are applicable productive ways to express an opinion, and there are negativist defeatist ways to express an opinion.  Nitpicking about trivial details, and expanding them into "Horrible Game - This Suxors - Worst Game Ever Made" are patently spoiled child level exaggerations when they are only backed by subjective evaluations based on personal preferences.  

Your proposed solution is to "ignore" the pesky negativist, and hope he moves on to bother someone else.  That solution will work, at the cost of the death of a forum community.  The majority of the negativists will hang on far longer than the productive forum members are willing to tolerate their presence.  If left unchallenged they will continue spamming threads and spewing their negativist opinions until those people who desire rational discourse give up and leave. 

The other solution people frequently take is to counter argue with the negativist on their own terms.   This usually degenerates into a futile name calling match between the "troll" and the "fanboy" which also drives rational discourse from a community, and leaves a dieing communty which is a playground of the polar extremists. 

Then there is my approach, which many people may rightfully call futile as well.  Engaging the extreme dialog on my own terms, in a rational debate of behavior instead of product.  I attempt to challenge people to think beyond their narrow self centered world view, and accept that different points of view may also have a level of validity if the people are discussing issues in an manner unencumbered by personal bias and preconception.    That is the hard path to take, because many people are just not up to the challenge of stepping beyond their personal world view and biases.  I frankly fail more often than I succeed, but when I succeed it certainly makes it worth while. 

As far as negativists being negativists that is true, there will always be something that most people like, that someone else will hate because they have a personal need to dwell within their negativist mindset.  You show them an Apple, and they assume there must be a worm inside.  You show them an Orange, and they think it has to be too sour.  Ignoring them doesn't stop them.  Claiming the Apple and Orange are good has them calling you a fool.  Challenging their behavior, their motivations and their world view, that gives them pause.  After that they either go away, or address you on your terms, and the rational discussion can begin.

I hope this helps.

Originally posted by Goldknyght

Originally posted by banthis

 

I never said you did start the thread you made a comment...I made one back that its funny you made that comment considering your reputation.  rofl geez haters gotta love it.

 

Im not a hater i point out real issues that are neglected by careless developers because they are lazy and want to make the fast buck rather then polish a game. Yeah nothings going to launch perfect but if you dont do your jobs people are going to point it out.

Warning - Sarcasim alert - not a reflection of my actual opinion.

I'm glad to hear that you are not a hater.  To read your posts in the forum someone might be confused on that point, and your clarification is useful.  I take it you are claiming to be a defender of the people, protecting us from companies who deliver games by neglectfull lazy careless developers out to make a fast buck.  I never realized, through all the fun I was having while playing Warhammer, that I was mistaken because it is a broken flawed product that no one can enjoy.  I'm glad you're here to do your job of pointing out how wrong I am to enjoy playing Warhammer. 

Sarcasim off.

While I agree you may not be a hater in general, all your posts in this thread have not been an insightful constructive critique of what could be done to improve Warhammer.  They have been attacks on other people who say they like the game.  I'm pointing out to you now in a constructive manner that whatever you think you are doing to improve the MMO community at large, your approach here is not successful.  Calling devlopers names, fighting with the fans of products, nit picking here about technical specifications, ect.  - none of this is helpful in producing a better product in the future. 

Obviously this product is not what you want.  If you really wanted to actually be useful to someone, instead of crying about how you don't like something here, why don't you head to the forums of a company with an MMO in progress, and guide them in avoiding the mistakes which are so obviously being made by every other developer in the market. 

Bitching about WAR here is like being a child crying over spilt milk, it's just too late after launch to change the course of an MMO that has a design with which you don't agree.  You could reasonably point out some polish issues, but there is already an in game mechanism for doing that in WAR.  So the people playing the game (aka the paying customer) are going to be the only ones with a direct voice to the vendor.  If you don't like the product well enought to play it, why should Mythic or any other developer take your advice on what everyone playing it wants. It's put up or shut up as far as Mythic is concerned, and I applaud the approach they are using because it allows them to focus on the actual paying customer. 

So that leaves you sitting in a fan forum, stirring up trouble and doing nothing productive.  If that's how you get your kicks, that's fine.  I get my kicks by playing WAR, and by pointing out when people are just stirring up trouble in fan forums instead of doing something useful. 

I hope this helps.

Originally posted by airhead

When evaluating forum posts, it's quality not quantity,

and just because somebody says something negative doesn't mean others will believe what they are saying. For example, compare the negative posts in WAR with the negative posts in AoC. AoC would have posts about huge advertised features not being present  or  major game-breaking bugs  or loading-screens everywhere. Things that ultimately discouraged me from buying it.

Now the negative stuff on WAR is just: i'm bored and WAR doesn't satisfy or things like that. More subjective opinions; which frankly don't convince or influence purchase decisions that much. So i bought a copy, my sons enjoyed it... we've ended up with 3 accounts. It's smooth, no major bugs of the sort that stop us from playing, it has a LOT of gameplay and different kinds of things to do.... it's fun. Probably the best mix of pve and pvp I've seen in an mmo in years. (aside: it's the gameplay I was wanting to see in WoW instead of just 10 more levels of the same thing with new items).

Negative comments will NEVER stop. I don't want them to. The overall subjectivity in the negative posts speaks volumes of positive for the game imo.

I have to agree that the subjectivity of the majority of negativism makes a fairly convincing case that someone either likes the product that WAR is, or they wished that WAR was something it is not.  I've seen very little objective complaints about WAR beyond the fact that 4 capturable cities and 4 classes were dropped from the initial game design concept pre-launch.  The majority of the rest of the complaints have nothing to do with playability, missing features, or fun, but a subjective evaluation of WAR based on of the kind of game a particular player prefers. 

Since I'm having fun playing WAR, I could care less that someone else prefers a more sandbox style game experience, while another player prefers a more console style game experience, etc..  WAR was not made to be everyone's kind of game, read the design concept information available on Mythic's site, and you can see what the Mythic developers and the EA marketing people think the game is about.  They have been pretty straight forward about the kind of game WAR is, and I have not seen them claiming it is revolutionary in game play or cutting edge in execution.   It's fine that people have personal preferences that lead them to dislike WAR for whatever reason, but why do they assume that every product on the market has to statisfy their personal gaming preferences or else it's horrible, bad, suxors, etc..    There is a difference between a game which is broken and unplayable by the majority of people, and a game which just might not be someone's cup of tea.  In my mind WAR falls solidly into the second category. 

I hope this helps.

I can't vote because you didn't leave any middle ground for those of us who like playing WAR, and are having fun playing WAR, but who also understand that it is not the best game ever made.  My vote, It's fun, and I'm going to keep playing it as long as I'm having fun.  However it is not my life, or obsession, so saying I love it would definitely be a stretch.

I hope this helps.

Originally posted by Getalife

Clada your problem is not one negative comment but its being stubborn and not letting it go when its been told to you many times why AOC style combat won't work in WAR.  You keep running around the same point  in circles. if you wanted to make a reasonable and debatable topic you shouldn't have made any reference to AOC combat. Like i said why not discuss WAR on its own merit without making any comparisons?

So are you trolling? yes you are. No one said combat doesn't matter. Just that AOC style combat doesn't matter in RVR games like WAR. And i told you why. When you die in 2 or 3 hits from mob where is the time to hit cool combos? your survival depends upon your team mates and not on the combos that you can pull. But i am sure you will still come back and repeat the same thing over and over again.

if that's not trolling then what it is?

 

I agree with Getalife that the OP has not really added anything useful to this thread beyond his first opening post.  He made an initial valid observation about the type of combat he likes in a game.  Then he kept insisting to the people who don't care that was some kind of proof about superiority or inferiorty of a game product.  He also confuses subjective evaluation with objective truth.  Until he learns that point, his follow up comments have been essentually useless to the overall discussion.  Does that make him a troll?  I don't know for certain, he is treading a thin line very carefully so far.  I do know that past his first post his comments have not been constructive, and thus a waste of his time. 

My advice to the people addressing the OP.  It's your time, waste it as you see fit, but you are never going to convince him that there might be a valid reason for someone else to prefer the combat mechanics in WAR.  His narrow minded view of the world will not allow him to accept that other people may legitimately like something he doesn't like.  In my opinion the OP is doing this for his own amusement, not because he thinks he will help anyone with his behavior.  You can take it for what it's worth.

I hope this helps.

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by zmortis

My analogy was neither correct or incorrect.  There was no right or wrong to it, only a value judgement about whether it illustrated my point or not. 

 

 Not to rain on your parade, but if your 'analogies' are neither correct nor incorrect...why bother making a new one?  Right or wrong, I agree don't matter, but making an analogy is in essence trying to make a parallel to your previous point or opinion and therefor MUST be correct for your debate to progress.

Also, your second analogy...with kids is also irrelevent since you're talking schoolyard politics, and I know you can't compare that kind of behavioral system with trying to establish a mature environment. Kids always act out in extremes, same with some adults (though you know they are immature), and this whole "My dad's cooler than dad.." in all of the variations is very simple and childish.

I have no qualm with what you like or dislike, I play WAR, and I like it. I just brought the point that you can't make sense of the idiocyncracies of some of these extreme posts, as reason and logic don't apply.

You can't expect ppl to all be civilized in a genre that also caters to kids (videogames) and expect mature, sensible discussions on a public, anonymous, and free website...even if they different sections for each mmo. It's not realistic.

 

Hope THIS helps.

I don't think you are raining on any parade I have going, and I find your remarks well thought out and rational.  We both agree to essentially the same thing here, that some people will behave like spoiled children and other people will behave like adults.  This doesen't mean that either of us is right or wrong, it simply means we make take different approaches to dealing with the situation.

Your approach in this thread so far seems to be only engaging in conversation with the adults, and ignoring the children.  There is nothing wrong with that approach, especially if it works for you.  My approach is to try to help the person acting like a spoiled child learn that behavior is eventually self defeating in the long run.   I take it as a kind of personal challenge to bring out the better nature in people.  I realize this is a lot like Don Quiote tilting at windmills, and you may well be accurate that I'm being silly by appealing to the better nature of my fellow human beings. 

As a person who hasn't given up on my fellow human beings, I will keep trying.  Your observations are understood, but you can just think of it a as flaw in my personality to be optimistic about the general good nature of the average person.  I realize that horrendous examples of human beings exist (maybe better than several people out there).   However, for every example of someone who is horrible, I can think of another person I know is a decent human.  The best I can do is avoid slipping into apathy about it, and try to help people get along as much as possible.  The only tools I have at my disposal are a good natured disposition, a bit of rational thinking, and being willing to try to help someone else grow.  I may fail many times more than I have success, and people may laugh at my attempts and failures.  However, every success makes it worth the effort.

I hope this helps.

Originally posted by Wildbeard

Originally posted by Rytif

Originally posted by Precusor

WAR is a good mmo... but the combat system does suck imho

 

HAHA... said the guy who plays EVE.. the spreadsheet MMO. Yeah, because you know good combat in a MMO when it hits you upside the glasses.

 

i think what OP means is that combat in AOC is much more active because you decide WHEN and WHERE you hit .

Combat is much more realistic , fluent and fun in AOC and its great performing a combo and seeing alot of different fatalities.

WAR combat system is like WOW. ...get a target.....use ability 1 .2 .3 .4. and again etc

AOC you could block getting yer shield or swords up ...you can dodge to sides etc

its what i call active combat like you have in DDO ...and soon in DARKFALL (wooot)

 

THough WAR has a great lore and a good rvr PQ system .

ofcourse each to their own ....some people prefer an easy and simple combat system like in WAR.

 

 

I agree with the essence of how you described combat in WAR, and I have no direct experience with AoC, so my input on that point is of limited value.  However, the main point that has failed to be made here is that some people prefer "traditional" MMORPG style combat, and some people prefer "video game console" style combat.  There is no implicit truth that one style of combat is inherently better or worse than another.  There is only a matter of personal preference as to which style you enjoy using. 

Personally, I admittedly suck at playing console video games.  Why I play PC games in the first place is so I'm not a 41 year old guy competing with the reflexes of a 14 year old kid.  There is no faster "twitch" pattern memorization (ABAAABX for the win!) skill in WAR, and for that I'm glad.  WAR actually requires some application of tatical awareness and strategic thinking, and that gives me an advantage over a typical "twitch" minded short attention span 14 year old.

I have no problem with WoW or AoC.  They serve a useful purpose in keeping WAR clear of players who would likely try to ruin the game with their whining and complaining.  Everyone playing WAR should be happy these products are on the market and doing well.  In return, everyone playing AoC and WoW should appreciate that WAR is here to keep us from ruining your MMORPG experience by whining and complaining about your game. 

To the OP: you need to learn the difference between objective and subjective.  I suggest starting with a dictionary.  Judgements like: better, best, good, bad, crap, great, etc. are all subjective evaluations and can not be proven as fact.  Your opinions on what is better is only meaningful to you, and just maybe to the persons who already agree with you.  You are changing no ones mind on the matter.   To the rest of us, your opinion on the matter is effectively worthless because we have a different opinion, and our own personal subjective reasons why we do. 

I hope this helps.

My personal experience so far is that if you have a limited time like 1 hour, you can usually get to a PQ, build some influence, and get a nice item in that amount of time.  As a casual (aka time limited) player I find WAR is very casual friendly.  You will not keep up with the power levelers, but you can certainly find and do something productive for your character advancement in that time, and have fun doing it if you like what the game is. 

I hope this helps.

I certainly don't mind people who come in and have something constructive to say about WAR of a negative or positive nature.  When someone comes in to say anying negative or postive in a non-constructive manner, I calmly and rationally explain that they are not being constructive and useful.  I also explain that if they want any measure of respect from me (if they even care), they need to adjust their manner of addressing other people here in the forum. 

I certainly don't mind if someone disagrees with what I have to say, since I'm certainly not a major sage.  I do mind if the best someone can do for themselves is to behave like an immature child.  I think they are short changing themselves and the other people around them.  I will always act to advocate mature and rational discussion on controversial issues, be they political, social, or just minor issues like choice of hobby. 

In the big picture WAR is just a minor issue.  It's an entertainment some people do for fun, and other people don't enjoy.  I fail to understand why so many people get deeply emotionaly invested in what other people think of the game.  If you like it, great, come join us in the fun we are having here. 

If you don't like it, that's fine.  Why do you think we need to hear about it constantly?  You are not saving people from making a mistake and trying the game, people have the ability to determine for themselves what they like or don't like.  You are trying to make something other people are having fun doing fail.  That is the essence of a Troll or a Hater.  They are only happy when someone else is being made to be unhappy. 

The OP thinks the only way to defeat a troll is to ignore them.  While that is a valid strategy, it is not the only approach to the problem.  My prefered approach is to treat them politely and rationally.  When they see that I will not be unhappy regardless of what they say, most trolls move on after one or two attempts and refuse to discuss anything with me again.  I'm often labled a troll by trolls because what I do doesn't give them the personal satisfaction they are looking to have.  I make them unhappy because they can't make me unhappy, and thus I must be a troll.  I prefer the term "counter troll" and I have successfully sent several trolls packing.  All without leaving the bounds of polite rational conversation.

I hope this helps.

Originally posted by Terminus-Est

For me, this game proves that there is no such thing as a good or a bad game. There are just different tastes. I hated the game. Despite getting pumped up on the hype, getting into the beta, and genuinely trying to like the game, I found that pretty quickly I was avoiding playing it. Just not my cup of tea.

I would have concluded that my experience means that the game is crap, but there are so many people who seem to be enjoying it that this would be an empty statement. I am reminded of my dear old mum being annoyed at adverts on the TV, and me pointing out that she really isn't the target audience for condoms and ipods. I just have to accept that I am not WAR's target audience and move on.

As someone who likes playing WAR, I agree with everything you said in this post.  It's a refereshing change to see someone acknowledge that WAR just isn't what they like in a game.  It's not the game, it's a matter of personal preferences.  I certanly have no problem with someone who doesn't like playing WAR, but who can understand and accept that someone else may well like playing WAR.  I applaud your mature attitude about the issue.

Originally posted by Sebali

would have been slightly amusing if chuck norris jokes hadnt stopped being funny a month after they started............................4 years ago

 

a+ for effort,

F for content

If it helps, you can substitute David Carradine for Chuck Norris if you like.

You see there's this game comming out in 2012 that is just the coolest, bestest, most bad ass MMO ever conceived.  I have all the facts to prove it too.

- It's called LoonyQuest - that's the coolest MMO name ever.

- All the characters in the game are called Chuck! 

- When you get to level 75 you get the last name Norris!  The ultimate!

- There is over 1 terabyte of authentic Chuck Norris sound effects in the game!  No other game even comes close.

- The world is 1-1 scale with the real world, and there are 16 terabytes worth of game maps you can walk across.  The most immersive MMO world experience ever conceived.

- Every frame in the game is rendered in High Definition! at 300 frames per second!

- You can use 20x anti aliasing, and 100x FF, whatever that means, it's at least 100 times better than any other game on the market.

- at level 100 you get the signature Cobra SS Mustang car driven by the real Chuck Norris in one of his movies.

- all the combat is based on real time captures of all of Chuck Norris' signature moves from all of his greatist movies.    You get a flying kick, a round house kick, a punch, and much much more.

- as you progress gain levels in the game the Chuck Norris character model goes from the "Octagon" Chuck Norris to the "Walker Texas Ranger" Chuck Norris.  No other gaming system has a realistic Chuck Norris aging model!

- like the movie "Being John Malcovich" that part where John Malcovich goes into his own head, and only sees everyone else as John Malcovich, everyone in the game is Chuck Norris, and you get to fight yourself!

- it has the most unique leveling system of any game with over 250 character levels.  You actually get weaker when you go from the Octagon Chuck to the Walker Chuck.  This is the only realistic simulation of character advancement in any MMO.

- Newbies have the strongest Chuck, and everyone else has to run from them, now this is the only ballance system that makes sense in any MMO.

So I feel sorry for all you peons that don't have your own Blade class server array to enjoy the greatness that Loonyquest is going to be.

I forgot to mention it's the best kind of software ever, vaporware!  At least that's what all the top gaming journals are calling it!

Loonyquest Roxors!

----------------------------------

this is a parody thread, if you get angry because of this, you need to lighten up a bit.

I hope you enjoy!