Originally posted by Teiman

Originally posted by Samuraisword

Stay away from Warhammer then, because the developers have even said it is not going to be a world, just a theme park game

Lets wait til open beta to say that. I for once, disagree.

I agree with above post that WAR will be theme park-ish (linear, Levels, Classes, instances, etc). But I also agree with Teiman it is better to wait til open beta (even though we know the DEveloper has confirmed that)

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Bakoryo

 

Originally posted by DrunkenPrey

Usually I wouldn't but........ LOL. They're playing a free MMO and pretty junky one at that and complain like the company owes them any loyalty. LOL.

I hate using that phrase but in this case, it's justified.

 

W.R.O.N.G.

 

To feel the full experience of the game you need to get a premium account, thus you are paying them cash.

 

I did know they would kill the game eventually, after they hit "3D" i thought that already.. But yeah, Rs was a good game with awesome setup.. Though it lacked the interface and graphics to keep me at it.

Why would you pay for Runescape when there are so many better alternatives?

I've read it's a skill-based MMO. What other 'alternatives' is there? Ryzom, still offline. Ultima Online maybe? That's it.

Originally posted by jackeccs

 

Originally posted by mutantmagnet

Runescape actually has 10 million accounts with 1 million being subscribers. I remember reading that blurb at gamasutra.

I'm curious to see what changed about pvp and trading to convince even a handful of servers to riot. It's not a good idea to turn upside a playstyle people are used to. If that's what happened Jagex should just change things back. Hopefully this is a legitimate complaint unlike the way people whine about the game going 3D...

 

then how come it's not even competing in the market.

according to Nielsen games it's #3 for most played PC games for April-Nov 2007. I would say its got a significant market share or at least had it

keep an eye out for Champions Online a Martial Arts / Fire combo should be possible. GW should hopefully be able to tie you over. In CoX you can almost get close to a FireBender by going Fire Corrupter but unfiortunately you cant mix Martial Arts (Scrapper) with Fire.

I'm well versed in MMOs (maxed chars in GW and CoX) and the Avatar series (just recorded that 2 hour finale that aired last week). The closest you can probably get to that is guild wars

Before launch, CoX was intended to be more freeform allowing players to combine different sets. But for some reason the devs caved and decided to pigeon hole us into developer created Classes right before launching (changed from skill-based to Class based).

Guild Wars is the closest thing the key is they allow you to dual Class much more freely then CoX. So you can get really close with Warrior / Elementalist or Elementalist / Warrior or even Monk / Elementalist. I have a Monk / Ele which is tthe path I believe you want that is a Firebender

Its unfortunate that 95% of the devs out there seek to pigeon hole players into shallow class roles which seriously screws with our ability to devise our own roles. Lucky for us Arena.net is one of the few developers that believes in player freedom

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by vajuras

Originally posted by Abrahmm

I can't decide what I'm most excited about. Being a huge Star Wars fan, I'm naturally excited about a KotOR MMO, even though I have a feeling it will be a linear WoW clone, which isn't what I'm looking for. I'm pretty excited about Earthrise as it sounds very sand boxy, I just hope it can deliver. Tonight was the first time I looked at Jump Gate Evolution, and quite honestly I think it looks really cool. Never played(or even heard of) the original and the basic idea is very interesting, on top of the fact that I have been a combat flight sim fan for all of my gaming career. It's a very exciting time for MMO's for me, as the last couple years have been very dull, repetitive, and disappointing, the next year or two looks very promising and exciting.

 

omg that feels like a post I would write down to the last letter

Seriously though EVE is okay if you can get past the extreme learning curve. What mmorpg are you playing right now to tie you over or do you play other genres to occupy your time. I'm currently playing EVE + KOTR 1 which occupies all my time :)

 

Currently I'm not playing anything right now. Star Wars Galaxies was my first MMO and I loved it. Since the destruction of it, I have tried a lot of games(including Eve a few times but had trouble getting into it), and out of all of the games I tried, I've only played Guild Wars(mostly because of real life friends) and WoW(again real life friends) for any decent amount of time. But those games weren't able to hold me for very long, about 8-9 month period each. Frankly I'm just sick of fantasy, it was never really my thing to start with. WoW is very simplistic and I think that it's moving in the wrong direction(My gripe is mostly with Arenas... I play a Feral druid, enough said. There should be WAY more focus on World PvP, give some type of reward for killing world bosses ect, but instead they are focusing on small instance pvp).

I just can't find a game I absolutely love the way I loved SWG. I'm hoping the one of the sci-fi titles I mentioned will be able to  help me out. I'm the most excited about Jump Gate Evolution and Earthrise at the moment though.

World of Warcraft would be more fun for me too if they focused more on the world pvp. They had the right idea with BGs I thought but too bad they didnt make world pvp like the BGs (award the gear and have rez spots that people can occupy and towns ppl can pillage)

I will say this much that I have not stated previously. When you get rid of BoP items your title will become more sandbox. Now, all players have to do is come up with money to get items. Even in a game like city of heroes, you had different ways to come up with money (though limited) like winning player run events, etc

With this freedom comes great responsibility.

The downside is now your game may become more of a grind for $$$. If the prices for items are too high then players get discouraged and it reminds them that not only are they broke in RL (assumption) they also poor in your game.

Developers have to weigh their decisions carefully. This is a good topic great arguments going all around here folks

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by vajuras

Originally posted by Venger

Eve is concentual pvp.  You don't have to go to lower security systems if you don't want to.  Not nocking Eve just stating facts.

I gave Eve a try and I really wanted to like it but it just didn't do it for me.

 

You are not stating facts. There are many ways pirates can get ya in high sec:

1) Anyway in group with ya can kill ya

2) Anyone can wardec your corp/alliance and kill you ANYWHERE

3) pirates can jump in yer mission with ya, steal your loot, if you aggress them they can kill ya

4) pirates will scan down yer ship and if you hauling a fortune and not warp to 0 they will kill ya and take it all. a guy jusyt lost 200mil he was hauling a Hulk in a hauler and the pirates got him

 

EVE is that game above that is what many of us play it is straight up FFA

Well I can't really dispute your claims with absolute certainty like I say I didn't get very far into Eve before I realized it wasn't for me.

But,

1 you can choose who to group with.

2 you can choose not to join a corp.

3 yes people can grief but it is still your choice to say f it and fly away.

4 if you attack someone in a secure sector don't you get attacked?  I didn't get far so maybe I just don't fully get eve.

Hi I hope my post wasn't too abrupt. Allow me to elaborate. You are correct on all points.

But if you attack an innocent person in high sec Concord will blow up your ship. However, pirates will simply have a friend loot your corpse. Pirates employ cheap T1 BCs (like Brutix) from what I gather which is nearly fully insurable. So they weigh their loss (risk vs reward) against what they have to gain.

So even if you never join a Corp you can be attacked

I hope that was clear and I apologize if my post was rude (I just really like EVE a bit too much)

Btw I wonder if some of us misrepresent EVE. Yeah it is FFA pvp but it has consequences. Hard to explain but put it this way---->

When many of us say we want "Free for All PVP" some of us want something like EVE Online- it gives us the freedom to takeover land, build stations, live together, and enforce order. It gives us all this freedom

I am what you call an "Alliance Pilot". I participate only in Alliance pvp meaning I do not pirate. Instead, we "mark" all of our enemy alliances and alert one another when we see a hostile in "Intel" channels

When a hostile enters our systems, we have covert ops pilots positioned to relay this Intel.

EVE players usually have printouts of maps on their desks while they play. This way when a KOS pirate is broadcast you 'get to a safespot' (see goonfleet safespotting video for newbies).

I swear on everything I died way more in WoW pvp servers then I do in EVE. I hop in my little Taranis and park in front of a gate waiting on pirates (gate camping). EVE has many Bottlenecks giving us the power to lock hostile forces out

So it's not 'choatic' FFA PVP. Many gamers, like me, we want FFA PVP + Faction PVP. This is why some of us are also willing to try games like WAR. The only downside to WAR is that like in WoW your true enemy may be on your same side

I hope this explains why some of us like FFA pvp. it gives us great Guild VS Guild PVP. I hope that is clear. That is what I love---- Guild Vs Guild PVP

Originally posted by SwampRob

Originally posted by vajuras

Originally posted by Venger

Eve is concentual pvp.  You don't have to go to lower security systems if you don't want to.  Not nocking Eve just stating facts.

I gave Eve a try and I really wanted to like it but it just didn't do it for me.

 

You are not stating facts. There are many ways pirates can get ya in high sec:

1) Anyway in group with ya can kill ya

2) Anyone can wardec your corp/alliance and kill you ANYWHERE

3) pirates can jump in yer mission with ya, steal your loot, if you aggress them they can kill ya

4) pirates will scan down yer ship and if you hauling a fortune and not warp to 0 they will kill ya and take it all. a guy jusyt lost 200mil he was hauling a Hulk in a hauler and the pirates got him

 

EVE is that game above that is what many of us play it is straight up FFA

 

All true.   Sad too, because if it wasn't for the ganking I'd still be playing EVE today.   That game had lots of cool features I enjoyed, but once I found out I couldn't even mine the best ores without opening myself up to being mugged, that was it for me.

It was a frustrating realization, but whaddya gonna do?    Yes, I play 'carebear' style, but so do many others and eve is sadly no longer getting my monthly fee because if it.   If they ever do decide to go more than one server, and offer perhaps a pve or only-consensual pvp server, I'll gladly rejoin.

Like you I play 'carebear' style most of the time (not all but most of the time). I live in nullsec and its incredibly safe if you watch the Intel and Local chat. I've been living in nullsec for months and months never been ganked once. Only one time did I die and that was because I undocked from station before checking my local chat window (local system for reds).

They make it really easy to live. I've lived through many wardecs. Of course I'm a member of a nice Alliance and that is how I roll.

Lastly, dont mine for ore. Loot it from shoip wrecks like the rest of us unless for some reason you adore mining (in which no one really does miners tend to quit more then anyone)

<edit> and no man EVE must stay 1 server that what make it special. I have honestly met bout 4-5 people in real life that play EVE. It is so great we all on one server. you have no idea how convient it is not having to transfer servers to play together. At all times we in same channel and communicate with each other. This is why I been wit EVE for a long time now and no plans to leave. It is only true MMO besides maybe Guild Wars (yes seriously IRONIC GW is not an MMO but it is 1 server)

Originally posted by Venger

Eve is concentual pvp.  You don't have to go to lower security systems if you don't want to.  Not nocking Eve just stating facts.

I gave Eve a try and I really wanted to like it but it just didn't do it for me.

You are not stating facts. There are many ways pirates can get ya in high sec:

1) Anyway in group with ya can kill ya

2) Anyone can wardec your corp/alliance and kill you ANYWHERE

3) pirates can jump in yer mission with ya, steal your loot, if you aggress them they can kill ya

4) pirates will scan down yer ship and if you hauling a fortune and not warp to 0 they will kill ya and take it all. a guy jusyt lost 200mil he was hauling a Hulk in a hauler and the pirates got him

EVE is that game above that is what many of us play it is straight up FFA

Originally posted by Draccan

Originally posted by vajuras

I love sandbox but I love Bioware. in this case I choose Bioware because my sandbox needs should be covered by earthrise, mortal online, well online, something if one of them releases. worse come to worst I play EVE + KOTRO

 

Bioware wins. sorry my sandbox brethern I will sell out on this point.

 

I wish SOE would bring back SWG pre-CU server for you I really do I would pay it with you

 

Earthrise is number 1 on my watch list. I just hope it will release and not succumb under the development pressure and not end up being a shadow of what is promised. Mortal sounds too good to be true. I really want to believe in Mortal, but something in me hears the vaporware (darkfall) alarm bells ringing.

so weird I never seen you post before (well until the other day) but I like what you have to say I agree

I love sandbox but I love Bioware. in this case I choose Bioware because my sandbox needs should be covered by earthrise, mortal online, well online, something if one of them releases. worse come to worst I play EVE + KOTRO

Bioware wins. sorry my sandbox brethern I will sell out on this point.

I wish SOE would bring back SWG pre-CU server for you I really do I would pay it with you

Originally posted by Draenor

Originally posted by vajuras

Originally posted by Draenor

Originally posted by vajuras

Originally posted by Dkevlar

i only played wow for pvp (have 35x xxx honor kills). 

 you are assuming something that is extremely wrong.. most are not like you , or me.   well i was rank 14 3 times and sustained rank 13 for almost 8 months....

Even in wow pvp servers- and i only played in pvp servers, where i have+ 10000 hours on a single character - yes thats more than 400 days played- one of the things i noticed was the pvp by itself was not sufficient to hold the crowd for long. it held me, but  i counte by the fingers of my hand how many were similar to me.

players do pvp, but they dont want to pvp all the time. I was on a very rabid pvp server , where most took it really to the extreme, to the point of passing all the time flasked just for pvp. But even this guys end up not wanting pvp all the time they are in game. 

the majority of the people do not want the kind of pvp that probably suits you and me- jesus just have a look at the AOC forums... and AOC was supposed to be a heavy pvp centric game... that would attract the hardcore pvp crowd... half to those were complaining about being ganked....

 maybe this is just more obvious to me since being to an extent associated with politics i'm more aware of how the crowd thinks- most often than not what they want is not what i want or would chose.  One of the first rules of democracy is to think that we- in I- are the minority.

 

None of those games are PVP centric. PVP centric games are like Asheron's Call 1, EVE, Ultima online, Shadowbane, DAoC, and maybe even Guild wars for structured pvp.

Age of Conan- us true hardcore pvp vets bounced as soon as we saw there would be no penalty for death

 

lol "us true hardcore pvp vets"

 

what the hell does that mean?  People who are really into corpse camping and griefing?  People who think that pvp is only good if there is permadeath and player looting?

 

I for one, will be glad when it is announced that this will not be the next mmo for "true hardcore pvp vets"  as it will mean that I don't need to worry about having the morons run around ganking lowbies and going "skillLOL"   I look forward to the erruption from "true hardcore pvp'ers" who tell everybody how this game will fail because of its lack of open pvp.  Because i assure you, that if what you desire is permadeath, PC looting, and full open pvp, that you will not get what you want, because those of us with common sense realize that a mainstream MMO that is aiming at mass success will never have these things.

 

 

 

please spare me carebear tears he tried to call Age of Conan a hardcore pvp MMO in which it isn't. No need to write a long book that I won't waste time reading

 

haha, I'm no Carebear, I've played plenty of pvp MMO's like Eve Online...and I've pvp'ed in the supposed "carebear games" like WoW...I enjoy pvp, i just don't like elitists who act like it's only fun pvp if somebody loses their whole damn character when they die...This game won't have that, because the vast majority of players don't want that, because why? 

Say it with me now buddy

Because it's not fun and nobody wants to pay 15 dollars a month to lose their character.

 

Carebear my ass, you have no idea what kinds of things I enjoy in MMO's.

You make many assumptions. When did I act elite please show me the post where I said you have to lose your character to have fun. I never ever mentioned permadeath, you did.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

I can't decide what I'm most excited about. Being a huge Star Wars fan, I'm naturally excited about a KotOR MMO, even though I have a feeling it will be a linear WoW clone, which isn't what I'm looking for. I'm pretty excited about Earthrise as it sounds very sand boxy, I just hope it can deliver. Tonight was the first time I looked at Jump Gate Evolution, and quite honestly I think it looks really cool. Never played(or even heard of) the original and the basic idea is very interesting, on top of the fact that I have been a combat flight sim fan for all of my gaming career. It's a very exciting time for MMO's for me, as the last couple years have been very dull, repetitive, and disappointing, the next year or two looks very promising and exciting.

omg that feels like a post I would write down to the last letter

Seriously though EVE is okay if you can get past the extreme learning curve. What mmorpg are you playing right now to tie you over or do you play other genres to occupy your time. I'm currently playing EVE + KOTR 1 which occupies all my time :)

Yeah Earthrise should be sweet but it feels like a long way off. But we still got WELL Online as well on the horizon. Yeah there really is a huge hole for scifi western produced MMOs

Originally posted by gillvane1

Originally posted by vajuras

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

Soulbound items in my opinion just force players to experience the game. Back when there was no need to farm for anything, players would just take heaps of gold and buy it, never experiencing certain boss encounters or certain dungeons.

I don't believe in bind on create crafting i think it is stupid since crafting is a economic thing, and should be used to build a market not only improve yourself, but as for all other items they should be soulbound. Except mounts. I don't understand the concept behind Soulbound Mounts.

 

Well stated however soulbind items simply force players through a "linear path" to acquire the item. If soulbinding did not exist then players would be free to accumulate gold and purchase it. Also, guilds can give their members items and award this to players based on merits and performance (which happens in EVE)

Soulbound items impede the ability for players to assist each other.

That is why soulbinding was instituted by SOE in an attempt to prevent players assisting others and it allows the developer to exercise a lot more control over your character development (aka force you to grind through the title at the intended pace )

 To clarify- you mentioned that players should be forced to grind through encounters to acquire the item. There may be many players, like crafters and pvpers, that may not enjoy being forced to engage in that activity to acquire that item. This is why I avoid those titles personally because I do not want to be forced into something I do not enjoy

 

Grinding through the content at the intended pace isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Although it's nice to add sandbox elements to a game, and it's nice if the game is not strictly linear, it's not nice to allow players to disrupt the game balance, which is what you seem to be advocating.

If you don't control the pace that characters grind through the content with bind items, then you should use other mechanisms.

A game that's horribly out of balance because of twinking, etc.,  isn't any fun.

You can basically wreck the economy, and make the all the low level content worthless, with unrestricted twinking.

You forget, items have level restrictions on them. Twinking is a problem in WoW because the game is such a loot fest. City of Heroes didn't suffer from that and many other MMORPGs

Besides in most linear titles you often have no economy to begin with. This is really their advantage, it makes them much simplier games to play for casuals. They dont have to worry about grinding out gold or anything

And low level content is already worthless in most linear titles. You have no reason to ever go back there. Compare that to a sandbox like eVE where vets go to high sec all the time never leaving trade hubs. Even a newbie can produce an item a veteran can use. Isn't that something?

Linear titles are seriously not trying to have a complex economy to begin with. Bop items by far had most value in WoW when I played. You had to raid or do pvp for best equips

I dont expect mmorpgs to change for decades but for Coop RPG or a sandbox I'd like to see this:

The system accounts for the skill of the "player" instead of the skill of the "character".

So, when it comes to learning how to swing a sword. The player's skill in learning how to swing that sword should come into account. But then, levels would be eliminated altogether. All grinding would be eliminated practically. As soon as the player knows how to swing a sword and is able to pass the 'trial' then he gets a license or something to acquire the next sword

Some players might beat the trial in a couple of hours. Others it might take them quite awhile.

Such a system doesn't really award a player's dedication to the title though. IT only awards player skill. So the persistance factor would have to be moved to other things besides character development

You could still have acquisition of loot and such though

Originally posted by Consensus

you choose, factions or go evil and kill whoever you wish. this means both RvR and FFA and choice!

Interesting Alignment systems in MMO space does indicate a player has the choice to slay another. But this action occurs an alignment penalty. It would still be Factional PVP but with a little player choice splashed in. That could work

Originally posted by Kabbax

If they implement a FFA PvP system where people are rewarded for killing each other, with no consequences it will fail.

 

If they implement a Faction based, Sith vs Jedi PvP system with rewards for killing each other, it will do well.

 

If they implemented FFA PvP server with full loot rules, and no "PvP Point" reward, it would work. Why, you might ask? Simple. If you kill me and take all my stuff, and you killed the guy next to me and took all his stuff, now you have 2 people that will work hard to kill you and take all your stuff. The more enemies you make, the harder you make your own existence. And people are more willing to help a friendly person to get new gear, then a evil person that runs around trying to kill everyone.

 

But the die hard FFA PvP people that usually argue for FFA type PvP don't want to have consequences to their actions. They want to kill without penalty. Which is why Servers like DAoC's Mordred has a population of like 20 now.

 

P.S. This is all my opinion. If you look at a history of PvP RPGs the ones with serious consequences did better then the ones that turned a player into a infinite resource.

why are people discussing FFA PVP in a KOTR PVP thread? Jedi do not slay each other and remain on the light path in KOTR games. IT will be Factional pvp surely. IT shouldn't take a lot of thinking for people to figure it wont be FFA and full loot

[edit] Ah I see the post you are responding too