All Posts by vajuras

Originally posted by Tatum

The more I've thought about "the grind", the more I've realized that the only factor that makes it so boring and tedious is...game play.  The combination of slow, boring MMO combat plus retarded, predictable AI results in an extremely repetitive and grindy experience.  If you could take a more engaging style of game play (FPS) and add it into the same MMO format, I can alost guarantee that it wouldn't feel nearly as "grindy".  But, the problem with that has always been that many MMO players don't want challenging, fast paced combat.  They want something predictable and easy.  So, here we are... 

I'm willing to bend on combat system but yeah the AI for a PVE focused game should be priority #1.  But right now there isn't any good dynamic AI. Would be great to see the world change and different things happen.

One thing i saw that was funny on a server once. Some guys planeted some plant monster at the town bank where ev1 goes to get their gear. A few hours later it grew into some kinda high level monster and rampaged all through town, killing weak players (was a skill-based game so no levels). That was great fun and totally emergent behavior that the devs didnt anticipate im thinking. The vets had to come into town and kill it

M<ost games are so error free and controlled, you never even see random stuff like that happen making the environment static and plain.

Originally posted by Bloodnok

Originally posted by vajuras

The ideas sounded really cool but yeah its a hoax post. I've been here at this site for a few yrs now and I've seen several of posts do this. No screenshots and jaw dropping features. They swear they come back and show pictures and vids.

 

You're probably right, but if it stirs up some interesting discussion on the sandbox concept then it at least serves some useful purpose.

You wrote some nice ideas why not post that as a concept at Developer's Corner? You could get a lot of good feedback there. The replies can get long and traffic is lower then general but its a great place to post ideas. Sometimes you get an anti-sandbox poster but I think your ideas would get love

Off hand, I like sliders. City of Heroes had them and it rocked. Yep, you saw some big, fat guys it was cool. I made great use of the sliders. I say we dont need sliders for a Face since they get covered up by helms

But it cant hurt to have deep facial options. I enjoyed that in EQ2

I love comics and follow both titles. Cryptic made CoX originally but then they sold that IP to NCSoft.  After they developed CoX, Jack said they had "revelations" or rather, learned more about MMO development.

For starters, when they conceived CoX it was supposed to be skill-based (many dont know this). I was pumped like many others. But then Jack claimed they went to E3, saw how lost people were, then dumped it for simplier Class based system

Over the long haul, this decision cost them he explains in an interview at gamasutra or somewhere

so now they have licensed the HERO system and will make Champions Online, which will be classless system loosely / firmly based on HERO. In HERO system you could design your own avatar. I just happened to look into HERO awhile back and alwayts said they should use it. So guess my guardian angel looked out

DC Universe I have no inside scoop. I have read impressions so far it is fairly classless as well and will be an Action MMO. you can see a lot of footage on gametrailers.com

It's a dime toss atm. We dont know anything much. We can only speculate til they both go open beta

I just found this link where they speculate it for PC & PS3. I have not had time to read it yet

edit- I stress "Speculate"

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by gillvane1

Looks like an Asian grinder, and looks to solo friendly as well. Not interested.

 

And you base that on a few minutes of combat gameplay?

seriously, how narrow minded can a person be?

people been sending that link around at work. I was like omg this most amazing RPG I ever seen.

"Please dont be an MMO. please be a Coop RPG. Please don't be an MMO"

Then I find out its an MMO. Nooooooooooo.... But like you say- its not right for us to jump to conclusions. I agree let's wait and see what it will be. NCSoft says Aion is custom tailored for our audiences maybe this will be too

So any links people have to share, post'em :)

The ideas sounded really cool but yeah its a hoax post. I've been here at this site for a few yrs now and I've seen several of posts do this. No screenshots and jaw dropping features. They swear they come back and show pictures and vids.

One guy went so far he said they had millions and it was gonna be like UO with huge cities, etc

Another guy said the GMs would be online 24/7 and they'd generate content for us and cities would be player run and in "just a few days he will come back and post links to his website" (you guys remember he even named it "Dark Hearts" something like that)

And now this one he says they got 500 mil budget and when people say they want something like AC1 what do you know- they working on that

must be posts by someone who hates sandbox games my only guess. that why I didnt bother posting

Anyway I could be wrong. I wish I were wrong but so far this has been the trend.

You guys talking about Blade & Soul?

Here's the full movie

guild wars is the only online RPG I've seen that doesnt try to bait ya with carrots. That is why I marked you will probably only like GW over the long haul.

Hm, myself I'm like you I guess. I've been tempted to return to GW. It's a great game for grind averse people. Besides that you have fps, single player rpgs, etc in abundance to play. I spend the bulk of my time in other genres these days and im a much happier gamer

Hm, just noticed Torak has an L2 banner in his sig so.... In anycase there are some FFA pvp games in the works and some are already alpha (WELL Online is alpha but in russia). Besides that we have Mortal Online and Earthrise.

I prefer FFA but Player Created Factions versus everyone else would work for me as well. Then allow the player created factions to form Alliances with others. Would turn into EVE's Alliance pvp system in the end which could work

The only problem with Race vs Race it doesn't allow Guilds to usually compete with each other. Notice WoW broke protocol and they allow guilds to fight each other in Arenas. That is really what's popular- guild vs guild.

I would also dig something that was Alignment pvp. It would be more for roleplaying but I think that would have interesting applications

Faction pvp really isn't all that 'structured'. EVE is much more structured then all of them. It allows us to own land, build structures, raze others, and enforce our own justice in our areas. That is true structure- giving players the freedom to extend 'near' safe zones into outlaw terriority

I wanted to get covert ops so I could be a "covert salesman" whereas I smuggle goods into 0.0 and charge outrageous prices and get rich. little did I know we would switch alliance after I did all that training, id hate exploration, and in my new space it so safe prices are close to empire prices anyway

Bah. still it useful for reporting intel, scouting, and pinning down hostiles

Originally posted by shrapnel20

skill-based sandbox mmos are more casual friendly than theme park mmos. a sandbox mmo doesn't require you to get to the highest level and spend 100's of hours raiding to obtain the best gear in order to compete. in a skill-based pvp game, a newbie can jump right in, train a few skills, and if he's a natural with the controls, he'll be a formidable foe for anybody.

I hope something like that comes out soon I'll play it. EVE's not quite like that

Originally posted by Ascension08

Extremes in anything are bad - we need a comfortable mix. Face it, because of WoW this genre is much, much larger - but those people are accustomed to WoW's style, which is what you clearly protest. Throwing them into a full sandbox, brutal PvP environment will scare their diapers off (figure of speech, not saying anything about age).

I wouldn't mind a level and/or slightly gear based system (with or without FFA PvP or safe zones) if they allowed the player to do almost anything, despite their level. Of course, some things would be reserved for high level...but not in a sense that you can only do those things at the maximum level. You can do them better if you're max level, but they're still available to you at lower levels. With this system everyone feels like they have progression (levels), but they don't feel like they're forced to gain those levels.

This would work better with different types of servers - some of them where there are safe zones, for the more PvE-minded folk, and some with full open FFA PvP (player looting may or may not be included, but for brutal PvP I'd imagine alot of people would want that).

Just me two cents. I wasn't here for UO, I'm by no means an MMO vet, but I'm speaking from what I've seen and heard so far.

 

EVE, like most hardcore MMO these days, offers insurance. Noobsticks can be fully insured. Veteran ships vary in insurance plans. Plus you have "Really safe" areas where you never die

It's not like you think. In many hardcore MMO you are much safer then WoW PVP server anyday, anyweek. Hardcore mmo have firm reprecussions for ganking the wrong guy.

I've died more on a bad day on a WoW pvp server then in EVE my whole lifetime

Of course, EVE is different from UO. Players can more easily enforce their own justice systems and easily relay intel.

In UO, original UO, there was no global chat lol. So yeah, UO was truly hardcore. No global chat i can recall. just like chat bubbles onscreen. can you guys imagine that

Originally posted by Chiram

Originally posted by Rebn77

Once, a long time ago, far removed from the current mmo offerings there was a guild who set sail in their dragon ships. They would sail to far off coasts and unload on horseback into "player made cities" destroying everyone and pillaging everything in sight. Afterwards they would sail off splitting their plunder amongst themselves and await the day they would raid the next village.

Now, we have been relegated to instances, and "safe zones". Our bloodlust goes unquenched and our fervor for true battle has pushed us into every territory opened within the last 10 years. But nothing is as satisfying as  Sosaria before the renaissance.

I hope Darkfall isn't vaporware, as we need the fresh breath of air after all the disappointment .

 

People who like these type of open pvp games are generally the really young, college bound or unemployed. The good majority of people who prefer "safe zones" are not "carebear", they are the people who come home from a long day at work and provide to society, and don't feel like getting camped by some group of hardcore "ebonloresque" bums who contribute nothing to society other than providing their mother with the daily job of bringing them more hot pockets.

 

Honestly, if you want a good open PVP game, it cannot be gear based, but very similar to UO. We need to get Richard pulled away from TR and after he is done with his space journey, have him make another version of UO with a company called "Originz".

Funny my Wife did much more complaining when I played WoW listening to little kids yell at us for not getting our "dance routine" correct. Now that I play a hardcore open pvp MMO like EVE she's happy because it takes me like what a few casual hours of joining a gang with my friends and pvping a little bit.

PVP is much more casual then PVE bar none. I can logout on pvp anytime and not screw over my "raid"

Originally posted by Illius

Quests before were well QUESTS.  If you managed to complete one it ment something.  Finishing a quest was akin to getting that sword of ownage and it came with an equally important reward.  Nowadays it's just exp, a bit of gold and a way to lead you from one place to the other.  They've lost their mystique, the renowned aspect that it would grand the poerson who completed it so that people who see him/her can see that and go "damn, I gotta do that".

solution #1:

Permadeath. I'm not a hardcore player like that but once I did play on an ironman PD server. Never had so much company at low levels before and town was always safe. You got XP for roleplaying in town

You could go outside and risk death but rare was this level of heroism. And when these rare few bold adventurers return they would regale us with their tales of what happened outside.

Make content hella hard and a harsh DP and there you go- you have content rare few eyes get to see.

solution #2:

Grant players some awesome advantage and it would hurt them to share the secret. Look at EVE. Gio read Trader guides. Notice something??? No sane trader ever shares their secret of success. my friends and I hav eonly found 1 guide where the guy shared his trade secrets and that only because he quit the game for good.

EVE has this all over the place. I guess put everyone on 1 server you'll have players keeping secrets all over the place. This is a bad / good side effect of player run economy

In real life a person can tell you a spoiler and ruin a single player game's "surprise ending" as well. I like walkthroughs for my single players when I get stuck and I like them for my MMOs as well.

just get in a guild with like minded people and there you go problem easily solved. Avoid PUGs (it shouldnt be hard I've been playing EVE for bout a year never joined a PUG ever)

Originally posted by fordzilla

Originally posted by randomt

Yes, Fallen Earth might in theory be a good choice.. But again it's one of those we have to wait to see what the actual game is like before deciding things.. like Earthrise, Darkfall, etc.
History has shown that getting one's expectations up about a game will almost invariably lead to mass disappointment, as far as the sandbox genre goes :]

 

 

well the wait is almost over. alpha apps are being taken on gamespot on aug 6th. you just need a free account.

Interesting.... best post ive read all day

If Elder Scrolls isn't a sandbox then cool, I don't want a sandbox. Just give me the freedom to full loot NPCs for whatever they have on them, own a house, run my own guild of thieves, freedom to pursue any career, break into a house and kill the owner then own that house, run from local law or kill the local law, pursue quests and objectives in a totally non-linear manner, become the master of the NPC guild, each profession has a Guild (like ES), etc

If ES isn't a sandbox then by golly I don't want one. Give me an Elder Scrolls clone please

By the way KOTR owned   I love that RPG. KOTR MMO will be fine if they stick to that formula

Originally posted by Flyte27

Originally posted by vajuras

Originally posted by Flyte27

 

BG2 uses D&D 2nd edition which allows for multi classing and duel classing so it does allow for some freedom.  It also has something called kits for each class which allows each class to further specialize in something.  For instance a fighter could choose a kit called Kensei at character creation.  This kit gets +1 to hit and damage every three levels and -1 to speed factor every four levels, but cannot wear armor.  This game is also very group centric somewhat like the original EQ where having the holy trinity makes you a lot stronger as a group.  The theif is less combat oriented and more around for their ability to pick locks and find traps like traditional D&D.  Mages are important for their ability to dispell magical protections your enemy may use to make themselves imune to most damage.  Other then this there is a lot interaction between the characters in your group over the coarse of the game including a few optional romances.  If you can live with the old graphics 1024x 768 2D it's got a great setup using a strategy game style combat system.  It's point and click, but you can select every character at once if you want to.  You can also pause the game during combat to assign each character in your group to do something specific other then normal autoattack.

 

That is something I love about bioware RPGs the ability to pause the game and make important strategic decisions. That new Dragon Age Origins RPG will also maintain that.

 

Weird, I like tradtional RPG combat as well as twitch based. Heck EVE is less twitchy then any other MMO out there when I look back at World of Warcraft's vids now they look so twitchy

 

I like some action RPGs, but it depends on the game.  Many games do action RPG combat different from others.  Even though many consider Oblivion and inferior game to Morrowind (including myself) I thought it's combat system was a step up from Morrowinds.  The Elder Scrolls games have some features I like such as being able to get infected with Vamprism and things of that nature.  The thing I disliked about Oblivion was they used monster scaling to the point that the game wasn't much fun for me.  I figured why bother with levels/skills at all if the monsters are all going to level with you and you will never feel superior in anyway.  One of the fun things about RPGs is you can revisit mobs that kicked your butt early in the game and return the favor when you are more powerful.  In Oblivion this wasn't possible because level scaling was used everywhere in the game.  Bioware uses level scaling in their games, but not to the same extent that Oblivion did.  Even Morrowind did not use the level scaling that Oblvion did which is why many people consider it superior.

Yeah I agree it was almost as if Oblivion removed skilling up altogether. That is the only reason I mentioned above. KOTR / Mass Effect feel very nice because you can go back and totally own anbd it makes you feel really powerful

No doubt this is why stats go hand-in-hand with RPG. It helps makes a game feels like it has much stronger roleplay.

That's why originally I posted I'm not an expert on subjects concerning character skill vs player skill. I think for now on I will clarify my stance the way you say- just call those games FPS / Action RPG.

Now I see what you meant by 'tradtional' ah (bulbs lights up)

Originally posted by gillvane1

I think it's just a comment on the sad state of MMORPGs.

The games that set the standard, UO, EQ, AC have aged to the point we don't want to play them. Very few of the new releases are worth playing, and some have been just terrible, like Auto Assault, Matrix, etc.

That leaves you with playing the current behemoth, WoW, and if you're just not into WoW, you're kind of out of luck.

LoTRo is ok, if you like quest grinding, and Vanguard is supposedly getting better. The latest release that was supposed to be awesome, AoC, turned out like I thought  it would, just a button mashing graphically pretty mess.

That leaves people just salivating for something decent to release, and the current craze is KOTOR, mostly because we don't know anything about it, so everyone imagines it's going to be the game they want to play. And most likely it will release, and turn out not to be the game most people want to play (it can't be everything to everyone) and then we'll speculate on the next title to release.

 

I hope WAR will have a good release, but certainly that's not going to appeal to everyone, because it's RvR and not everyone is looking for an RvR game. Also, we don't even know if the RvR gameplay is going to be really good yet.

you really know how to bring a guy down don't you

It is depressing Bioware has yet to officially announce KOTR with trailers and such. I'm on my way to preorder games tonight/tomorrow and sadly none of them will be MMOs. Maybe I will preorder WAR. I know it will be good. But I'm not really into that type of game, sadly

Originally posted by Flyte27

 

BG2 uses D&D 2nd edition which allows for multi classing and duel classing so it does allow for some freedom.  It also has something called kits for each class which allows each class to further specialize in something.  For instance a fighter could choose a kit called Kensei at character creation.  This kit gets +1 to hit and damage every three levels and -1 to speed factor every four levels, but cannot wear armor.  This game is also very group centric somewhat like the original EQ where having the holy trinity makes you a lot stronger as a group.  The theif is less combat oriented and more around for their ability to pick locks and find traps like traditional D&D.  Mages are important for their ability to dispell magical protections your enemy may use to make themselves imune to most damage.  Other then this there is a lot interaction between the characters in your group over the coarse of the game including a few optional romances.  If you can live with the old graphics 1024x 768 2D it's got a great setup using a strategy game style combat system.  It's point and click, but you can select every character at once if you want to.  You can also pause the game during combat to assign each character in your group to do something specific other then normal autoattack.

That is something I love about bioware RPGs the ability to pause the game and make important strategic decisions. That new Dragon Age Origins RPG will also maintain that.

Weird, I like tradtional RPG combat as well as twitch based. Heck EVE is less twitchy then any other MMO out there when I look back at World of Warcraft's vids now they look so twitchy