Originally posted by DeniZg

Originally posted by lordoffiling

Having said that, I'm still not seeing anything in this cash shop that would give me an unfair advantage over anyone. Can someone point me to something specific that is in the cash shop that is unbalancing?

Truth be told, the only thing that can be considered P2W in NWO are Wards. They are very expensive (1K Zen=10$) and are required for high level enchants, which in turn would provide an edge in PVP. You could get ZEN from AD, but it would take you some time.

Yep. All the other stuff people have mentioned are either drops or fluff. Wards are the real money ticket for Cryptic. However what the anti-F2P crowd fail to realise (because they are not level 60, they are just finding stuff to whine about in a game they had no intention of playing) is that the lower level enchantments drop like candy. There is a 1% chance that you can refine the lower level ones into a higher level one, but its still a decent chance considering how often they drop. The wards just guarantee it for real money and speed up the process. You can fully gear yourself in the best gear in game without ever spending a cent in the store. That means that this game is not pay to win, by any stretch of the imagination. What people pay for is convenience.

I don't see how this is any different to the 1% or less than 1% items we used to grind in games like Everquest. In fact in this case I am likely to get it even faster because of the sheer drop rate of these things. I remember running a dungeon in EQ2 every cooldown for 6 months to get a rare dagger. I doubt I would even have to put 1/10th of that effort into getting a max geared character in Neverwinter.

But hey, these types arent swayed by logic. They are just looking for an excuse to bash the game.

Originally posted by Zaphear

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Sovrath
Isn't this supposed to be based on a more current rule set? 4th edition or some such thing?

 Yup.  It's based on or inspired by 4th edition and neverwinter setting. Without a human Dungeon Master, crpgs will not truely be DnD imho.  NWN wasn't truely DnD by that measurement either.  But NWN was based on DnD.

DDO does an immensely better job at this.. it in fact DOES feel like a campagin with the narratives sometimes. FFS they even have Gary Gygax doing one.. Neverwinter is stricly an MMO/WoW clone with some DnD flavor.

The voice overs and character customisation were nice in that game. The setting itself and the combat were a snooze fest.

But yes, if you are purely basing your decision on character customisation, then DDO is 'more DnD' than Neverwinter. You will be pleased to know that DDO is still up and running for anyone who feels that DDO is 'more DnD' and simply cannot abide Neverwinter and its lack of customisation.

But you will probably find that most dont care, because Neverwinter is a fun game in a DnD setting. With a dungeon maker.

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by neorandom
i dont get this "the combats fun except that it roots me"  everyone goes on about, im a great weapon fighter/cwizard/rogue and ive never been rooted, i can move anywhere i want, and then attack, and move again, my attacks dont force me to not move, i can still get out of the way of a nasty incoming hit, it just stops any attack that doesnt go off instantly (like the giant cwizard daily or continuous magic missile toss).  you arent rooted, you just cant ranged kite with running casting, no game allows this because meelee would never be able to close on you and present a danger.

many games allow this.. i'd try playing a few more games:) gw2 for example allows almost all abilites but a select few to be used on the run.. if i remember vanguard as well allows movement while you are channeling or casting.. many others do as well.. It's not really that hard you basically just need to give melee gap closers, some ranged attacks and ways to catch up to or stop ranged and games like gw2 do this just fine.

Vanguard reduces movement speedwith 50% while casting..

pand in GW2 some chanelled spells require you to stand in place, or they fail...

 

 

But free movement while casting/playing an actionbased mmo, is almost a requirement and one of the weak parts of the games combat, when it comes to immersion

Which lead to really cheap AE farming on Wizards and Psionicists. Not ideal.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by neorandom
i dont get this "the combats fun except that it roots me"  everyone goes on about, im a great weapon fighter/cwizard/rogue and ive never been rooted, i can move anywhere i want, and then attack, and move again, my attacks dont force me to not move, i can still get out of the way of a nasty incoming hit, it just stops any attack that doesnt go off instantly (like the giant cwizard daily or continuous magic missile toss).  you arent rooted, you just cant ranged kite with running casting, no game allows this because meelee would never be able to close on you and present a danger.

many games allow this.. i'd try playing a few more games:) gw2 for example allows almost all abilites but a select few to be used on the run.. if i remember vanguard as well allows movement while you are channeling or casting.. many others do as well.. It's not really that hard you basically just need to give melee gap closers, some ranged attacks and ways to catch up to or stop ranged and games like gw2 do this just fine.

I like GW2, and still play it, but the combat feels very floaty and lacks any real consequence for using skills at the wrong time. As long as you kept circle strafing and double tapping at the right time you can do whatever you want. Had the same issue with TSW.

Neverwinter makes it more tactical. You are choosing to open yourself up to counter attack by stopping to attack. It means you have to pay more attention to your surroundings.

Also with GW2, they didnt have healers or control in the same sense as Neverwinter. A cleric or wizard with spells on the move? No thanks. It would just be cheap and boring.

Also constantly running around in circles just looks rediculous. Again I could overlook this with GW2 because it is a solid game, but not so much with TSW. Neverwinter animations look far better as a result, and lead to more interesting combat.

Originally posted by Shodanas

Originally posted by joe2721

you do release that they have to generate income some how and just a 60 box price would not work for a mmo. theres upkeep and  additional content.

GW2

Has a cash shop almost on par with Neverwinter...

How long is a piece of string?

That poll you referenced, most of those $60 and $200 responses relate to the founders packs. Most of those players will never need to spend another cent in Neverwinter. They already have the best speed mount in game for their whole account, and many used their free AD to buy additional character slots.

Having leveled to 60, I don't really see any need for me to spend any more money in the game. I got a founders pack and used some of my AD to get 2 more character slots (so I now have one of each class).  I might spend some more if three are cosmetic items that appeal to me in the future, or if I want to unlock a class / race (if they go the pay route for those).

I doubt I would spend more than the average box + sub game. I have already gotten more gameplay from this game than most single player games I blow $60 on.  

Its a video game. It was never meant to be a replacement for tabletop DnD. They made a video game using the lore, classes and setting of DnD. Making it very much DnD.

Just because it doesnt have every single element from the PnP game, does not make it any less DnD.

Look back at 95% of DnD videogames, none of them offer the customisation of DnD. The only one I can think of that came close was Neverwinter Nights, which is where I guess all this angst comes from.

Does anyone remember the side scrolling DnD arcade game? You got to pick from 4 characters with set classes and races. Was that less DnD because of that? Should we remove the DnD label on it? No. It was an arcade action game based on the DnD lore / setting.

If Cryptic had come out and said 'HEY GUYS THIS IS AN EXACT REPLICA OF DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS IN MMO FORM!' and marketed it as such, you would have a point. But they were very open about what the game included. It was an action MMO with 5 of the classes and 8 of the races from Dungeons and Dragons 4th edition.  

I am assuming you havent even played the game, so I will let you in on a secret. The game, and the world, feel very much like Dungeons and Dragons. Everything about the game oozes with DnD look and feel. But you wouldnt know that because you are obviously have a vendetta against the game not being a spiritual successor to NWN.

Originally posted by Inf666

Originally posted by Banquetto
Stupid question but.. Neverwinter has a dodge mechanic? How does it work? I saw nothing in the tutorial and I haven't found any way to dodge??

That's one of the things I like least about it, if I'm mid swing when an enemy starts a cast, I physically can't get out of the red zone in time - in GW2 you could dodge out.

For clerics it is: Shift + direction or double tap in the direction

Not sure if everyone gets a dodge.

Everyone gets a damage avoidance skill. And its always shift.

If its a dodge (cleric, rogue, wizard) then you can double tap. Warriors have to use the shift for either block (GF) or sprint (GWF).

Originally posted by cybertrucker
So which of these 2 games is better? Which one has better story? Better combat? Better world? Also which one do you think will offer more depth and longer playability? Thanks and lets try to keep it civil.

Varies from person to person I imagine.

Story? Probably Guild Wars. Neverwinter overarching story is a bit weak, its more about the individual stories the quests tell.

Combat? Neverwinter. Much more fun. Less skills, but feels more strategic. Trinity makes it less chaotic, but can bring imbalance in PvP.

World? GW2 by a long shot. Neverwinter has great locations, but its not a world like GW2 has created.

Longevity? Neverwinter. The foundry will make far more content than the GW2 folks can keep up with. Personally I think they both have long shelf lives ahead of them. But its hard to beat user generated content. For PvP they both will have staying power.

They are both good games, and given the chosen payment options, you don't have to play one at the expense of the other. Neverwinter is more of a traditional dungeon game with a trinity. GW2 offers a new experience that tends to polarise people one way or another.

At the end of the day, its a good time for MMOs. Lots of quality titles incoming.

Originally posted by Vigg

Signed up for NW yesterday, but I can't post a new message on the official forums...so looking for help here.  My question is, as a GWF, should I try to move out of the way of all telegraphed moves with sprint, or should I save it up for the big, red circle attacks?  I've tried to move out of the way of the non-circle telegraphed moves, and even if I appear to be clear of the attack, I still get hit.

 

Thanks!

You tend to get a feel for what hits will hurt. Only area attacks are telegraphed, there are some other attacks that you can spot the animation for and move away (big stuns etc). You most certainly can dodge all attacks. GWF can move further and faster than most dodges, but doesnt get full immunity while doing so like wizard and rogue get.

Also I should warn you that GWF feels a bit weak until 30. It gets better later on.

Originally posted by deniter

Originally posted by baphamet

 

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Originally posted by simplius

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Originally posted by RefMinor A reverse NGE.

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yup, hardcore games attract most players, thats common knowledge

 

luckilly, there are no mmos, who have had success, by simplifying gameplay

and now a look at tomorrows bizzaro weather...

swtor need so many changes, that it would be easier and cheaper to make a new game

and use a GOOD and TESTED engine,,most of the changes in the OP cant be done,

because of the engines limitations

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disagree with this, hardcore games actually don't attract more people, not sure what you are basing that off of but you are definitely wrong.

one only needs to look at wow to come to this conclusion. they copied a hardcore mmo design and simplified it all around and in came the masses.

hmm.. i thought they only have lost subs since the simplifying trend begun. i'm not saying WoW was too hardcore in the first place, but certainly they didn't win much by changing their design philosophy.

Only about 1-2 mil. And most of that was probably just due to old age, rather than desire for those players to play hardcore games. Although I do find it amusing when 'vanilla' WoW players think that WoW was somehow hardcore at launch. Yeah no. It never was.

Originally posted by bestever

I feel the great weapons fighter is a little low on dmg at low levels but I have seen them get better above 25.

Yeah up until 30 I just let fighters (both GWF and GF) hit me without bothering to move, since they were so weak. But after 30 they start hitting hard, and GFs become nearly indestructible in 1 on 1s (except perhaps for Rogues / GWFs).

Originally posted by bezado

1. When you log out you go right back to the login screen where you have to put your info in again.

2. Control Wizards look ridiculously stupid the way they look in casting animation. Holding that sphere and when not in combat it floats on side their heads. Seems really dumb to me and quirky, not a fan. What dev made it like that needs to be kicked. =)

3. Mail - Character@handle WTF is this crap? I sent something using just a name and it sent but never arrived. Guess you got to do that dumb stuff character@handle is lame.

4. Not being able to simple /t (name) to send tells.

5. PVP scaling. The system scales you up to level but this poses a huge imbalance for players who for example pvp at lvl 20 and scale to 29. Players who were 29 who entered are stronger. The PVP is not balanced as of yet. Also the PVP is very linear and boring at the moment. I think they hashed this together just to put it in for launch because it is really lackluster.

Other than these 4 issues I think the game has lots potential to grow and polish. Nowhere near the polish and ease of use that WOW has for an example.

1. Yep agree, annoying. They should have a 'log out to character select' option.

2. Disagree. I love the animations on all classes in this game.

3. Love the @handle system. Means I can pick the names I want to use, rather than putting X's or stupid spelling in to get the name I want.

4. Never really had a problem with the system.

5. Never had a problem being competitive fresh into a tier. The scaling system seems to work well. In fact, at lower levels I think they scale you up too high, because I hit like a truck in the first half of the tier (probably to compensate for less skills).

Note: You listed 5 issues :)

Originally posted by Vannor

Originally posted by danwest58

Originally posted by Derros

Originally posted by danwest58

Well it happens.

 

http://forum.us.runesofmagic.com/showthread.php?t=76663&s=9570501e5cfbfd0ae1fbe7a3125f3ed2&p=571635&viewfull=1#post571635

Some person pays $2K on Runes of Magic.  Like I said I knew someone who spent $500 on that game, played with him in rift before I quit.  

Not questioning whether or not it happens, I guess I just cant get into that mindset of someone who would spend that much.  In the same way I cant get my head around how someone would spend 10+ hours everyday trying to be the hardcorest raider on the server.

Check out my message above because I just did a little bit more checking on what I said about the 3 guilds.  I did remember the one talking about the scrolls that people must have.  This is what I mean about P2W. 

I dont care to much about paying for a mount here or there but honestly I cannot justify $30 or $40 for a mount in game.  As far as I know and I asked around to get a mount you have to pay for it period.  So why am I going to play a game where I need to pay for things like that.  At least if they did have an in game mount I would be happy.  See I dont want free but we nickle and dim for for everything.  Give me a Sub and let me go play the game and unlock everything.  

Even if some guilds out there think they need those scrolls to be able to finish elite dungeons, they are wrong. You don't need them.. that guild is wrong and the answer to the problem is just join a guild that isn't full of idiots.

Pretty much. The game was tested for difficulty using no cash shop items. You can play on easy mode in PvE by opening your wallet if you want, but its not necessary and you are only ruining your own experience.

In PvP all those items are disabled, so its balanced and fun.

Originally posted by CoNk3r

I don´t know, why so many ppl. can justify the fact that right now a bag has a price tag of 10$

 

Because you can earn bags, with more than enough space than you will ever need, by actually playing the game.

If you simply must have more space so you can return to the vendors less often, that is a convenience. Which you should pay for.

Originally posted by Meriik

  Ok first off Id like to say that I'm having quite a bit of fun playing this game.  The game is fantastic, combat is fluid and engaging, the soft trinity is great, questing is fun, easy to get groups for skirmishes and dungeons and has cooperative and rewarding gameplay, and the foundry is one of the most innovative implementations to the MMO genre in a long time.

  Now take everything they've done right with their well venerated IP and take a pay 2 win crap all over it and you've got Neverwinter. The cash shop  is full of items to give unfair advantages over other players, and a massive amount of pay for convenience items.  It's intrusive and annoying to be constantly be bombarded with reminders of how much better i could be by buying all their overpriced items.

  Ok i already know the counterargument, "well why dont you stop freeloading and support the developers".  Im not a cheap individual I just dont find paying for random crap all the time fun, and i believe all players should be on a some-what level playing field.  If this title was separated from the cash shop and the game systems reworked based on that I'd gladly shell out 60 bucks plus a 15 a month sub, no problem at all.

  Im not going to sit here and attack anyone if they like the free to play business model that's their perogative, but i am going to take a stand with my wallet and not support this endeavor.  I fear if this project succeeds, which at this point i think it will, then other mmo developers will be more inclined to make their games in Neverwinters image, thus destroying my beloved genre even further.  Anyway, just sharing my opinion, dont hate me too much!

 

What exactly do you feel obliged to pay for that will help you win at this game?

Serious question. There is nothing in the Zen market that I felt I needed to buy at any point going from 1 to 60. Nothing. And I never felt gimped at all. If people were buying power, I never saw it in PvP where I constantly get the top of the leaderboard and rewarded with blue items.

Do you guys actually look at the store and judge it by its merit? Or just see F2P and jump to conclusions about P2W.

The only thing close to P2W at end game, is buying items to guarantee the fusion of enhancements. You can save up enough Astral Diamonds to buy this in a few days of decent play. Or get lucky and win them. So yes, people who spend money can get them faster, and its incentivised to get Cryptic some money, but if you have enjoyed the game all the way to 60, you probably should be giving something back anyway. Or you can spend more time and earn it the harder way.

TLDR: This game won't fail because it has one of the best F2P models around and the game itself is very solid and fun.

Runes of Magic was the biggest pay 2 win farce I had played. EQ2 and SWTOR both had terrible F2P models, but didnt really rip people off with an endgame lottery.

I'm sure there were a lot worse asian F2P that I never bothered with that had more P2W than RoM though.