Originally posted by terrant

Because by and large it's become useless from a gaming standpoint.

 

Devs often try to find soemthing useful to do with homes, to encourage players to visit them often. But at best they end up being a location the player jumps into from time to time, to collect some special item, get a buff, ot craft. Then it's back out in the world the other 99% of the time. Why waste resources developing a segment of content players only spend a tiny amount of time in?

 

Also player hoursing is viewed as a staple of RPing, which has declined quite a bit in MMOs. 

 

Keep in mind I'm not saying I have an opposition to player housing...I remember the fun I had opening up my Jobe house in AO for the first time and decking it out. But I don't thinkit's something enough people care about and will use for most mainstream developers to care.

EQ2 handles this very well with housing competitions and rating systems. More companies should follow their lead on player housing.

Originally posted by JoeyMMO

Originally posted by mbojan75

I dont play it, never did, but im wondering...

Wouldnt that be a better option for everybody?

 Not if they want to maximize revenue. They thought the game would rival if not beat WoW in numbers. It didn't. Looking back B2P might have been worse. Lots of people paid subs, some for 2 months, some up to 6 all at once. It's not clear whether they would have made more money as a B2P.

If the game had been split in 2, or even more, games, let's say a game for Empire and one for Republic and been B2P then it could have been more succesful and people wouldn't be so quick to shoot it down.

Requiring a sub is turning into a risky proposition.

From a player perspective? Yep it should have been B2P.

But the bottom line is that EA / Bioware (and any other MMO company for that matter) will just milk subscriptions from games until it becomes more profitable for them to switch to F2P / B2P.

SWTOR still has a long way to go before a B2P model would be more profitable than subscription.

Originally posted by Thane

sucks when you dont swim with the rest of europe, and some day realize that it actually wasn't the smartest move because your shit is getting more and more expensive eh? :)

 

 next time they ask you if you want the same prices as the rest of europe, you say YES!

Completely irrelevant to the biased pricing methods of ArenaNet. Every other new game around is the same price in the US, Euro and the UK. ArenaNet are just stupid and don't know how conversion rates work. Then when it gets pointed out they announce region locking to stop people buying the cheaper versions.

Also the Euro is a joke of a currency.

Originally posted by xKingdomx

Originally posted by fivoroth

Originally posted by angrymime

I agree that an mmo that's supposed to be groundbreaking should not be charging $59.99 USD for a game.  It should also be groundbreaking in it's pricing and charge us $60 USD flat.  Yeah, refuse to play psychological games and charge us that extra penny.  I'd gladly pay it. A penny extra for no monthly sub fees.  Ever.  Or give us some item shop credit for that penny.

 

I think Americans should stop posting in this thread because the only thing you guys are doing is piss people off. We got it that the game doesn't cost more in your country. We really did. However, the OP is posting for the pricing of the game in the UK. It costs 49.99 here which is 80 dollars for the normal edition. That's 20 dollars extra. 

And don't give me that crap that games cost more here. Games usually cost exactly the same they do in the US sometimes they are actually much cheaper. However, never has a game charged people 50 FIFTY pounds!

Dear fellow European gamers,

When your

• gaming pricing is more expensive than Australia's pricing for games
• have to pay for ridiculous monthly download quota
• play with constant lag due to physical distance

Come back and tell us

 

Sincerely,

Australians gamers

 

ps: the smart portion of us have resorted to buy from online stores and possibly even online CD key stores, then guess what, that eats into our precious download quota.

As an Australian living in the UK, I think you should be happy that you can actually buy the game from America in Australia.

ArenaNet decided to region lock Europe from buying the US version. Any European player who purchased the US version will be unable to play it. Its a dick move because they knew they were ripping off Europeans and thought it was easier to screw them over than to fix the price.

Also, everyone saying that taxes etc are the reason for the higher price are just wrong. Why do you think all other brand new games are 30-40 pounds which is an exact conversion of the US price? Because you are wrong, thats why.

Originally posted by Chrome1980

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by t3lliott92

I have been so hyped for this game for months but I have to say I am so disappointed with the beta so far. I haven't played for long, 4 - 5 hours overall but I have not enjoyed playing, I will go on to even say I was bored. I have seen and heard so many positive reviews about this game but.. I am so far failing to understand why? Anyone else with a similar opinion to that of myself?

You wont be alone, others will follow suit when the honey moon wears off.

GW2 isnt going to be for everyone and I hope arenanet makes sure it stays that way.  Trying to please everyone like Rift or post WOTLK WoW just doesn't work.

Huh? i would say it worked quite well for Rift and WOW post WOTLK. if it didn't both games would be dead in water.

Worked well at keeping the brain dead masses happy. Worked well at being a good game? Hardly.

Lets be honest, most people on this site arent part of the majority of gamers. We all look for something more from a MMO. I think Toddze is right, if you try to please too many people you will just come across as mediocre in every aspect. Focus on your strengths and make a game for a set demographic, not for everyone.

If you dont enjoy it then cancel your pre-purchase. No point banging your head against the wall if you arent having fun. Personally I love the PvP in the game, its brilliant.

I probably agree that the current 3 starter zones arent as exciting as they should be, but its a fine line with the lore making the area outside the hometowns too dangerous. I can't honestly recall a single MMO where I was having fun in the newbie areas, TERA, WoW, LOTRO, EQ, EQ2, Vanguard - they were all boring at low levels.  It usually isnt until around level 20 or so when group dungeons become available that I start having fun, because newbie areas are always designed for the lowest possible player intelligence.

The first time I played GW2 I had a blast aquiring and learning all the new weapon abilities. But on a second playthrough I imagine that wont be as entertaining.

A lot of the 'dynamic events' that people are complaining about arent actually dynamic events, they are the heart events (which are more akin to traditional quests) and are just there to get you some gear. These die off pretty quickly once you leave the newbie areas as they are just there to show new players the ropes, making way for more dynamic events.

Originally posted by waynejr2

I am feeling a bit worn down by all the dynamic events.  I thought they would be a cool "addition" to general questing, but "IT FEELS like I am constantly getting into DE".   It's wearing a bit thin for me.

Umm the whole game is basically made up of Dynamic Events. This has been known for many many years. The lack of generic questing is why most people are excited about the game.....

Originally posted by QuicklyScott

I feel you OP, I kinda feel the same.

Having disliked my time in the previous Beta Weekend, I thought i'd give it another shot, as quite a few people are raving about how good it is.  I did have more fun than I did last time, and i did manage to have 20-30 extra FPS which was great.  It's just not for me though, there are a variety of reasons, but the main one is the questing system.  Like you said, I think it is repetitive. I hate having to grind mobs to level because you've done all the hearts for your area and you can't find any repeatable quests events to do.  I ended up Alt+F4ing.

Perhaps I'm just fed up with the genre?  That is what I've seen fans of the game suggest if you raise such complaints.

PS2 and Titan are the ones I'm interested in now, it's funny because, one and possible both are not even RPGs...

Grinding mobs to level? You sir, are doing it wrong.

It doesnt sound like you are tired of the genre, on the contrary it sounds like you prefer more traditional offerings. I think the reason you arent enjoying it is because you want to have your hand held from quest hub to quest hub, or just sit there and grind XP, and GW2 just isnt that kind of game. Its a 'make your own adventure' type of game which heavily emphasises exploration.

I think a lot of people with no imagination will just not be interested in this game as it wont be holding your hand and directing you to where the 'fun' is.

The large boss was impressive.

Originally posted by DiSpLiFF

Probably not until enough people pre-order for their liking. 

Yep, this is pretty much what it will be.

Originally posted by Ryukan

Why do I get the feeling that Origin servers=getting closed down the road.

Yeah the approach they have taken is confusing. Why are they trying to empty out existing servers even more? Stop being lazy and just merge them.

With the way instancing works in SWTOR I see no reason to have more than one server per ruleset, location and language combination.

Perhaps if other companies were this efficient the games industry wouldnt be in the rut that it is in today.

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by Eletheryl

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/ 2.34 Mill, 10k more than the last week, looks like even when is ¨dying¨ the keep selling like 10k copies per week. With the merge, the 1.3 update and the free trial that number will be even bigger.  What about TERA, as an example,  http://www.vgchartz.com/game/44073/tera/  0.17 Mill, and we are talking about swtor as a fail. Haters need to learn how lo live in a world where swtor is already an HUGE success, the most successful MMO post WoW, live with it.  

TERA aside... if those numbers are accurate, then SWTOR is still a failure. Keep in mind it cost 250-300mil to make the game. Even though 2.3m sounds impressive, they'd still want double that. Also keep in mind that the populations have been going down, not up.

Investing 2-300mil on a project, to more or less break even, is not generally labelled as 'success'. Not even in the business world. Especially when you factor in that it took over half a decade to make.

All of the speculation about how much it cost to make is just that, speculation. There has never been any official announcement regarding the cost of production for the game. Before it came out it was 200 million, now people in this thread are claiming 300-400 million. Its silly.

No, its just the current trend that more and more MMOs are turning to the F2P model.

Like it or not, if a game is F2P then it is more accessible, there is no denying that. And if a new P2P game comes out, it is going to be compared in value to existing F2P games, there is no avoiding that.

Basically if you want to charge a monthly fee now, you have to work for it (like Rift does at the moment), not just milk subsciptions like companies have done in the past because there are plenty of F2P alternatives out there if the company doesnt deliver.

Originally posted by Wicoa

Hey Im a human male but I now want to be called Loretta as a human female though I have no working female genitalia.  It is my right as a human to change what I am at a whim.

Oh look a potatoe is an apple of the earth!

It is not F2P it is an unlimited trial to level 15. F2P my ass, I hate swtor spin.

F2P involes a change of method and structure to give players content at paid for piece meal components, sometimes with an option of an all in sub fee that provides currency bonuses.  Until they have that in place they have no right to use the F2P title, queue unlimited trial to 15 thats what it is.

 

To be fair, its not SWTOR spin, its the MMO genre spin. Everyone calls it F2P even though it isnt. WoW and Rift both call their limited level trials 'free to play' in advertising, even though that is blatantly false.

Originally posted by Betaguy

I have played both and like the feel of TSW's combat better than GW2's.  GW2's combat feels old and stale, I have played GW2's combat style since 1999.  It will be a muchly needed refreshing change to play TSW combat as it is not done in every mmo.

Were we even playing the same games? What exactly did you find new and innovative about TSW's combat? How you obtain skills aside and looking at the combat alone... what is different?  Its the same tab target hotkey system that has been around since Everquest.... at least GW2 throws in some dodge mechanics into the mix and eliminates the holy trinity to spice it up from the same old same old.

I cant think of a single thing that is new or innovative about TSW combat. I like the game, but combat is definitely not its strong point.

I mean this just sounds like a baseless jab at GW2. If you prefer TSW thats fine, but at least come up with something plausible.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by cooper85

 

I was just looking at a blog about the GW2 skill/trait system. It seemed so restrictive compared to TSW's. So many "If you choose this, you can pick from these." type statements. In TSW it's "Here are 525 abilities, earn points, unlock whatever you want" Here's the quote in particular that got me to thinking.

 

"Again, having more options to create a build that suits your play style only further raises the skill ceiling in both PvP and PVE gameplay."

 

According to their own words on what further raises the skill ceiling.  TSW's skill ceiling  is much higher. Having a possible 525 abilities at you control and no predetermined way in which you gain those abilities makes for some incredible stratigic pvp. 150 minimum, possible 300 unique characters in Fusang is going to absolutely nuts.

 

Once NDA is lifted people will be able to see the full breathe of the TSW combat system. 

that's not how it works at all sorry...

Yeah, I wonder if some of these heralds have even played the game? You cant even mix and match 525 skills because you are limited to two weapons at a time. You can put whatever passives you want on as well, but most are linked to certain weapon types and are fairly useless with the wrong weapon.

Its not as diverse as they seem to think.

Regarding the actual point of the thread, yeah the animations need work in TSW. They just dont look like convincing combat animations, which is strange because they did such a good job with Age of Conan.

Originally posted by Rophez

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by Rophez

Originally posted by PyrateLV

What strikes me as strange about this whole thing is, when TESO was first announced Zenimax was all gung-ho about how they were using the Hero Engine for the game. They were even flaunting it.

Dude - you are out to lunch.  Please find me one source or quote from Zenimax to prove this.

It was in the original Game Informer interview where the game was announced.

http://digg.com/newsbar/Gaming/elder_scrolls_online_would_use_heroengine

I think PyrateLV is right, it sounds like they are just slightly modifying the engine and trying to say that it isnt the Hero Engine to avoid any SWTOR criticism.

Personally I dont think using the Hero Engine matters, as long as they have good programmers and artists, but what they are saying in the latest interviews about how they are not using the Hero Engine is obviously just smoke and mirrors since its abundantly clear that they have already licensed the Hero Engine, and I doubt they are going to port all their work over to a completely new engine half way through production.

When they say its a 'whiteboard' they really mean 'its pretty much the engine, we just added a few new effects'.

Um - the link you posted is a really bad summary of the original game informer article.  I mean really bad.  Like maybe someone used google translate to make it Russian and then back to English.

Please read the original for the correct context: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/25/why-the-elder-scrolls-online-isn-39-t-using-heroengine.aspx

Thats the correction version where they tried to justify it. The original article where they said they used it was print only, which is why most links online are just paraphrasing it.

Originally posted by Zorgo

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by ukforze

Originally posted by ktanner3

Everything seems to point back to SOE. Seems to me it was a business decision based on the fact that it wasn't worth the cost of renewing the license. And since they are the only ones that have the actual numbers I'll take them at their word when they say that it was time to end the game.

 

Why would SOE ruin their own game? they had a few hundred thousand players, which fell

almost overnight with the 'WOW' style CU/NGE changes to the game, you only have to look at

SW:TOR & it stinks of NGE/WOW similarities.

 

The funniest thing is SW:TOR subs started plummeting after the 1st month & kept on falling

even with their BEGGIN MAILS & FREE MOTNH OFFERS! ...it will last a fraction of the time

SWG lasted & will have zero hardcore followers...

 

[mod edit]

 

What does any of that have to do with what I wrote? I wasnt talking about the NGE switch or TOR.

Not only does it have nothing to do with what you wrote, he is still under the hardcore fan delusion that subs weren't plummeting prior to the nge/cu. I was there. The  population was falling without the NGE/CU. They had to do something. Unfortunately they did the wrong thing. And the freefall continued and sped up...making a game, like you said, which was not worth the liscence renewal.

My favourite line was "Why would SoE ruin their own game?". Uh.... the same reason they turned Everquest 2 (their own IP) into a World of Warcraft clone. Sony are greedy. They saw how many subscribers Blizzard had and they wanted a piece of that pie.

The get rich quick scheme was to dumb their games down so much that WoW players would convert and play SoE games instead. Didn't quite work out how they wanted.

This is mostly in the past though. They have largely given up any ambition to have as many subscribers as WoW and are going back to diversifying their games / making a niche. The new strategy is to milk their niche playerbase with horrible F2P models.

Originally posted by xDayx

Originally posted by BadSpock

The "modern" MMO player is motivated by reward, not adventure.

Open world dungeons work when the motivation is adventure, not when the motivation is reward.

When the motivation is reward, expect camping, griefing, and a complete lack of all the positive social variables that the TESO devs claim open world dungeons bring.

They are living in the past with this design - it can work but requires the game to be about something other than loot.

All signs are pointing to that not being the case in TESO.

I think your generalizing modern mmo players. I know many people who play current sandboxes(incl. even younger people) that arent motivated solely by reward. 

Feel free and generalize themeparkers all you want though.

 

I have to agree with Spock. Open dungeons can be great fun. I love doing them in EQ2 for leveling, and Vanguard also handles them brilliantly. The problem is when rare loot drops from mobs in open dungeons, which results in spawn camps that ruin the fun (for both the campers and everyone else grouping in the area.

If loot was the same for all bosses in an open dungeon and there was an incentive to keep moving and clearing - like in Diablo 3 where you would get higher loot multipliers by killing elite mobs on the way to bosses. Or maybe force you to loot something from each of the bosses in an open dungeon to spawn the final boss with the better loot. Basically anything to stop the monotony of spawn camping then I would love to see the return of open dungeons