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All Posts by CyclopsSlayer

All Posts by CyclopsSlayer

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524 posts found

EVE found a wonderful thing, the balance between PVP & PVE.

The PVP fan can spend his SP on the latest and greatest in guns and engine skills. They can fly circles around a hummingbird and shoot a gnat off your shoulder from hundreds of kilometers away. BUT, no matter how good they fly, how well they shoot, sooner of later they need that new ship, the fresh ammo, a new load of Drones. So they turn to the PVE'ers for their supplies to continue their fun.

 

Meanwhile the PVE fans can mine the rarest of resources, research the rarest of blueprints, build all the toys. BUT they need access to nullsec for the resources and so turn to the PVP'er for the mercenaries needed to let them access the resources for their fun.

 

They NEED each other to be efficient. In so many other 'Sandbox' games the two have almost no interaction save as predator and prey.

After the initial foray of EQ1, and then the staggering clusterF that was Vanguard at launch it has come down to;

"Fool me once, Shame on you! Fool me twice, Shame on Me!"

 

EQ and VG remain the games I have spent the most time in, years of played time. But much if not most was after others moved in to clean up the mess left in McQuaids wake. Sadly, it is time the old warhorse Aradune is put out to pasture.

In my opinion

 

Financially the game may be a success, but too me it is an utter failure due to design.

Yes, many of my issues have been dealt with, or now have workarounds, still I have have never felt even the slightest desire to 'come back' with these Cartel Coin, and Premium Item offers. Why?

 

- For the number of 'worlds' each has a tiny and very channeled map. It is like the Planet Earth being only the stretch of road from New York City to Albany, completely skipping the rest of the planet. Invisible walls abound. A sadly controlled and contained chase from Hub to Hub. Virtually no replayability as all chars in the same faction get shoehorned into the same or very similar experience.  While I don't like fighting my way through crowds of people for every kill, the world felt incredibly barren and empty as I seldom encountered anyone I hadn't already brought with me.

- If one of your friends had the audacity to be your same class they couldn't share storyline completions, each had to initiate their own. In some cases they couldn't even enter 'your' quests. Made the game feel like anything BUT an MMO.

-The quest/event dialog system that most wore out their SPACE bars slamming through, until one party member walked off to get a sandwich, change the kids diaper, whatever and the rest are stuck with the massive timeout wait at every step. As well, does every single farmer needing you to kill 10 xxx to clear his fields really need 6 pages of text and a celebrity voice-over to tell you to go kill some rats?

-Whether they spent 10 million or 500, couldn't they have spent a couple of those dollars and a few minutes of time on an auction hall that worked? Incapable of even the most basic filters and sorts.

-Space combat and other dailies that could be macroed they were so much the same day in, day out. Reminds me of that parody of Battlestar Galactica 1979 where the same Cylon gets blown up in the same film clip week after week.

-A Light/Dark side faction system that really meant absolutely nothing, as the most evil and despicable Jedi ever could never convert to the Dark side. (btw the gameplay was heavily biased towards darkside play being the 'fun', light being the 'bad' style)

 

So while the game may have thriving players and be into the black financially, to me it is still a failure as it utterly failed to capture any sort of epic Star Wars feel. People will pay for and do the most incredible things, things others think are beyond insane.  Take Bungie/BASE jumping, fans think it is the most fun ever, other people look at it cringe and call the cops.

Up til now the forums are only open during Beta events and a couple days on either side.

Sadly he is discontinuing the site, but for now

http://www.mmodata.net/

Has the best and most updated numbers.

I always preferred the flexabilty offered by more skills and buttons.

The 5 button systems offer a very limited systems that allows little room for anything conditional. Take Elemental damages, I knew using Fire damage against a Fire based foe was useless so I would switch to Water or something else as the occasion called for. The 5 button systems are more in the ARPG family with Diablo/Path of Exile and such, than they are on the MMORPG.

The limited, dare I say crippled, skill systems have to compensate by making all things the same, a Fireball now hurts a Fire elemental the same as a Ice Bolt or whatever. They remove all traces of depth and complexity in the favor of 'twitchy' mechanics and gimmicks over strategy.

While SWG had a complex and involved crafting system, the best by far was Horizon / Istaria.

 

Not only could you make gear usable from L1, but the crafting also could change the face of the world.

- Advanced Skills and Spells were from crafted scrolls

- Housing was crafted, but had NO standard floor plans. You placed the walls, hedges, doors, storage silos, vendors, craft tools, whatever, anywhere you like within the confines of the plot of ground you bought. From a small city lot size, to hilltop full castle, to underground dragon's lair.

- Players needed to connect bridges to link to islands with more housing plots, dig tunnels down to special resources. All through crafting. While 1 person could do the work it would take years, these were more World Projects involving all players.

- Two world projects I was there for unlocked 2 new player character races. Satyr's from tunneling down to a Super Boss who was mind controlling the Satyr's, once he was defeated they joined the available races. Dryad's were also unlocked similarly. 

 

It was the Combat and Death systems and incomplete world that drove me away, NOT the crafting.

 

Originally posted by Nadia

i think 2003 was the best year

 

Eve Online

Horizons (now called Istaria)

Lineage II

Second Life

Shadowbane

Star Wars Galaxies

Agreed! 

Although I thought some of those were 2004.

Originally posted by SpottyGekko
Originally posted by apocoluster
  Lol some NSA nerd convinced his boss to let him play world of Warcraft at work.  You know.... I thin there might be some national security threats at Playboy.com too

Oh, I'm sure there's whole departments of cryptologists studying every single image on Playboy.com to ensure there are no threats to national security encoded in the gfx... 

All too true I am sure!

 

This however should have come as a surprise to no one. All Social Media is watched, and what are MMO's but Social Media with a twist? 

Wouldn't surprise me at all to learn next that the NSA has taps into the VOIP server companies, and that all Mumble, Ventrilo, Teamspeak channels can be tapped. They aren't Phone calls, so they might say they need no warrents to tap your guilds next raid, quest, or bored player gatherings.

Never broke anything, but curse.... errr, ummm, yeah...

 

Worst ever that comes to mind was my then L50 in Everquest 1. (LONG grind times to level, XP loss on death, all items left on corpse, no corpse summons at that time) Guild was on a raid into Hate when the server crashed. Of course when we logged back in to a fully respawned plane it was insta-death. No other guilds were willing to break us in that night. The next night I was out with the Parents on a planned dinner, got home and the Guild had finished their recovery. Thinking I had a week until my Corpse Decayed, I tried to regear my now L48 char while recruiting a break-in that I could join.

Turns out that the decay took a week, if you didn't play the character.  IF you DID, it only took 12 hours to decay.

 

So there I stood, naked, at the gates of Freeport, saying some very unkind things in guildchat...  :(

Check out this video of the "Immortal Shuriken" build. On almost a worst case map.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl0AYtLAmFc

Hmm, this reminds me that I am still paying on the 3 month premium plan. Haven't touched it in like 7 months...
When you register your game code. If that is before Launch then a game clock usually starts on Launch day.

EQNext seems to me to be a utter violation of everything the EQ franchise has been about to date. Not saying that is good or bad, but it's ONLY connection with the games of old will be the EQ name. I spent almost 7 years in EQ, at least 2 in EQ2. I've done the Raiding world, casual grouping, even the old slow and gearless solo play.

 

ARPG playstyle removes all the strategy in favor of flashing lights, gee-whiz mobility and a direct cloning of the WoW character armors and appearances. No room for elemental vulnerabilities when you get 4-5 buttons to rule your life. No room for 'fun' spells. Just the standard ARPG 1, 2, 3 for Single Target, 4 for AoE, and 5 to Heal BS.

Destructable terrain just leads to greifers that will dig a moat to the core of the world around every major city or valued resource. We all should know by now that a certain percentage find their only fun in taking away the fun of others, and this type of system makes it easy to do.

 

I will remain curious and watch where EQN goes, but what they have shown and talked of so far is pretty much entirely the wrong directions in my opinion.

There is also a HUGE difference between;

"Everyone can be any class at any time" and

"Everyone can be any class at any time, and play it well"

 

An amateur Healer might Heal normal content fine just mashing basic heals. HM content, and say a Titan fight and you are gonna want a focused healer.

I play my Bard well, I do a decent Monk, but wouldn't begin to trust myself Healing without a LOT more experience in doing so. Knowing what heals to use, when to use them, how to maintain Mana and not pull endless aggro, is an art all in its own right and I have nothing but respect for those that do it right.

At least they don't require you to log on to a 3rd party site, to buy Crysta, so you can pay the sub. All while having no even remotely obvious method to register a Credit card or PayPal directly...  "Look! We have a Subscription, but want to make it tough for you to give us your money!"  Square Enix is not even remotely known for their user-friendly policies.

The LAST things that should be hard, is to register, or to set up billing.


Originally posted by CyclopsSlayer

The "problem" with the (un)Holy Trinity playstyle arose from the game designers building encounters that could only be done a certain way.

 

Take EQ1 at release;

Warriors did more damage than any other class with the same Stats and Weapons (100% + Str Bonus vs. 75% and no bonus). As well with the first expansion gained a skill that reduced incoming damage to a degree vastly greater than any other class could even dream of.

Clerics, Shaman and Druids got the 'same' Heals spells, except the Shaman and Druids version healed less and were acquired at a later level (ie 360 vs 400iirc). As well, ONLY Clerics got Complete Heal, the best HP/AC buffs, no one else came close.

Enchanters were only second at Slowing a targets attack, but were bar none first at Speeding players attack speeds, Crowd Control, Mana regen, and more.

 

The Devs there then built encounters that ONLY a Warrior could Tank, ONLY a Cleric could heal, and with the best support as the Enchanter. Others were only fill ins once the group had one each of these.

Later, much later, they completely rebalanced the skills sets such that every class had a unique line and ability they brought to the table.

 

If a Warrior wasn't available to Tank, a Cleric to Heal, an Enchanter to Buff/Debuff, others could fill in for group play, but... You were much more likely to wipe and have a bad experience. Attainable content was lesser, and Difficult content needed to be avoided.

This is what brought the 'bad taste' to the Trinity model. 

Did you play EQ1?  Warriors did not do more damage than any other class.  They were on a higher damage table.  They did not have the same skill caps or special abilities (Flying Kick and Backstab were far superior to Kick / Bash).

The common heals from the Clerics, Shaman, and Druids healed for the same (they were acquired at different levels).  Complete Heal was what made raiding possible though.  It was far, far superior in terms of mana efficiency.  That was the primary reason it was used.  You don't make mention of the 10 second cast time.  That's a long cast time.  The genius who came up with Complete Heal Chains totally screwed up any content design at the time.

Warriors never had a substantial edge in tanking.  They really only offered an advantage when you were raiding something at the edge of your guild's abilities.  Knight snap agro and just plain agro generation left warriors crying in the fetal position.

Enchanters were primarily CC.  You didn't bring them for their buffs and debuffs.  You used a shaman for that.

Yes I played at release and through 2004-5. Spent most of that time in a pinnacle raiding guild.

 

Let's see...

- Warriors started with a different damage table indeed they were at 100% of base weapon damage, and every 2 levels past 26(?) they gained +1 to weapon base damage as an innate. Hybrids were supposed to be at 75% and Healers types at 50%, but for a large portion of the early years, sadly the Hybrids (Paly, SK, Rng) were set to 50% NOT 75%, Verant denied there was a problem despite parses, Sony took over and it was rapidly admitted to and fixed.

-Warriors got a skill at ~57 that reduced incoming damage by 80%, originally it had a 2 minute duration on a 6 minute cooldown. Later AA's could bring the duration all the way up to 100% up time. NO other class had a similar skill.

 

-Clerics and Paladins DID have a better heal for the same common heals. Same mana cost as the other classes, the 'Divine' version just healed more. Later all heals were balanced, but that was years later.

Here from the Project 1999 pages;

There's plenty of things like this that haven't been fixed to be more like classic. Heals for druid/sham vs cleric should be:

9/10 minor healing
27/30 light healing
90/100 healing
250/300 greater healing

 

 

-Yes Enchanters were pretty much only CC until the +30's when their specialty lines started kicking in. A Chanter could Haste better than any Shaman could dream of, Slow almost as well, had a HUGE ablative HP buff, and could do all that and CC/Mana regen. Most raids had room for several chanters, but only 1 shaman was ever needed Tash/Malo/EpicDoT and might as well camp out....

The "problem" with the (un)Holy Trinity playstyle arose from the game designers building encounters that could only be done a certain way.

 

Take EQ1 at release;

Warriors did more damage than any other class with the same Stats and Weapons (100% + Str Bonus vs. 75% and no bonus). As well with the first expansion gained a skill that reduced incoming damage to a degree vastly greater than any other class could even dream of.

Clerics, Shaman and Druids got the 'same' Heals spells, except the Shaman and Druids version healed less and were acquired at a later level (ie 360 vs 400iirc). As well, ONLY Clerics got Complete Heal, the best HP/AC buffs, no one else came close.

Enchanters were only second at Slowing a targets attack, but were bar none first at Speeding players attack speeds, Crowd Control, Mana regen, and more.

 

The Devs there then built encounters that ONLY a Warrior could Tank, ONLY a Cleric could heal, and with the best support as the Enchanter. Others were only fill ins once the group had one each of these.

Later, much later, they completely rebalanced the skills sets such that every class had a unique line and ability they brought to the table.

 

If a Warrior wasn't available to Tank, a Cleric to Heal, an Enchanter to Buff/Debuff, others could fill in for group play, but... You were much more likely to wipe and have a bad experience. Attainable content was lesser, and Difficult content needed to be avoided.

This is what brought the 'bad taste' to the Trinity model. 

@OP, I agree 100%. These were among my first thoughts when I watched the EQN presentation. That and surrounding some new settlement with land claims to seal others in/out or undermining buildings and walls so that they fall into the fires below. Much as I did in Populous lo these many years ago.

So, with only a couple skills there is no room for complexities and flexibility. No room for elemental resistances. No room situational skills. No room for FUN skills. 

So pretty much no room for anything but twitch-twitch action combat. Leave the brain at home, and bring the hyper-active button fingers.

 

Even day 1 EverQuest had 8 skill hot buttons. But ALSO had social buttons that could be macro'd, non-skilled attack buttons like 'Kick' and 'Bash', etc...

This current fad does the MMO genre no favors, and serves only to feed the short attention span, content locusts.

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