Im biased but im going to say EQ1. Still best MMO out there just gotta be ok with the ridiculous AA grind that u will need to do and get them early as possible meaning 65 - 70 because after that AA xp starts to slow down greatly compared to those levels.

This game shouldnt be anything other then Canned like Matrix Online. And F2P model is a slap to all the people still keeping this pile afloat because it should of been F2P since feburary 27th, 2007. F2P model doesnt work on established games and if your F2P ur game will get no love PERIOD.

Originally posted by Paragus1

Substanitally increasing the games exposure with more attractive price tag should definitely help.

 Doubtful this game though might be fun and colorful wont attract any new people.

Originally posted by Garvon3

Because SoE was their publisher and forced them out 6-8 months earlier than originally promised to Sigil, and made them launch a week after WoW's first expansion. 

 I wont say SoE forced them Sigil could of had some back bone and said its not ready. Sigil also wanted to launch it because they werent going to get anymore funding to continue this pile. So whats fastest way to get revenue? launch the title yeah its crap but you will get that inital 200k at 50 bucks a pop. Get the intial 10mil from that u know ur player base is going to drop to 10k. Then 15 x 10k then times that by 36months. Damn 5.4million How is this game afloat still??? didnt this game cost 60mil to make. Microsoft got burned but least there name isnt associated with this pile.

Originally posted by itpaladin

Originally posted by Olgark

Vanguard was a good concept, problem was it needed more time in devleopment. But SOE being the huge greedy corperation they are wanted their money and so forced Sigil to launch. When it failed at launch they bought it off Sigil and took over the development.

And true to SOE form they killed it like they have done to every other MMO they own. Just got to look at SWG and EQ1 and 2, along with the Matrix.

Why does everyone blame SoE that picked it up AFTER the failed launch?

How is EQ1 and EQ II being killed by SoE? I played EQ1 from like 1999 to 2001 (wish things personally didn't change that contributed to not playing), and played EQ II two weeks after launch and off/on for close to 6 years.

 Umm i dont know because well lets say because SoE Published it. If you publish crap you are just as much to blame as the people who developed the crap.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Goldknyght but sometimes you need to take a step back and let it go for the community.

uh no.

I don't make decisions based on people who I don't know and who in the end do not (nor should they) have my best interest at heart. If that's the stand you want to take, why not "sometimes you have to step up and support it, for the sake of the community". That blade cuts both ways.

So umm... You actually truely believe SoE and Sigil had your best interest at heart???!!! And I now sir place you in the 1% club because the other 99% of mmo players get it and you just dont.

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by Goldknyght

Originally posted by bcrankshaw

Gee so much positive responses to the post and Vanguard Im overwhelmed with emotion......not !!!

 

I love Vanguard and will continue to pay my subscription until the game go's under

Good idea's Justin ...I'll support any initiative to increase support for the game ,lets see what people suggest :)

 No offense but its subscribers like you that keep telling publishers/developers that they can release anything and someone will pay for it. This game warranted a damn BOYCOTT of all SoE games, thats how horrid this game was at launch and yes you might be having fun and loving the game but sometimes you need to take a step back and let it go for the community.

 

You do realize that Vanguard was not a SoE game right? Microsoft dumped Sigil who developed it and SoE just published it. Does seem pointless that SoE saved VG, which probably would have never been released otherwise, only to neglect it afterward though.

 You do realize when I purchased my handy box that was vanguard it says SoE. Yeah i know who developed it and SoE should of did what Microsoft did and Dumped this pile because they knew CEO of Sigil was a complete dufus when he made this game. He wasnt making head way on the game so they dumbed his ass. SoE being that they might of owed Brad i think it is was the owner of Sigil a favor for the sucess EQ1 had so they took a gamble on him. But Sigil was still BSing and SoE being SoE released the pile that was VG at launch. And since SoE were the ones behind the LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH agenda its SoE's Fault just as much as its Sigil. Hence me saying Developers(sigil)/Publishers(SoE) think they can just release any pile of crap and people will still pay. We should of Boycotted SoE so they know the next time they decided to publish a damn pile they will know better. But they wont because VANGUARD IS STILL ALIVE. and Developers like Sigil know they can just make a game thats 60% done and still make a profit when they release it. Yeah they wont make any future profits but they made a little profit after launch.

As to SoE neglecting VG they were just being Capitolistic n nature and Earned there little bit of profits at launch heard all the negative things about it once it did launch and made the decesion to just not waste any more money on the game that they helped get released. They moved it into the catagory of If VG makes money we will spend it if the numbers just keep dying we will MILK IT FOR ALL ITS WORTH and let it die. Guess which one they choose VGBoi/Gurls???!!!

Originally posted by bcrankshaw

Gee so much positive responses to the post and Vanguard Im overwhelmed with emotion......not !!!

 

I love Vanguard and will continue to pay my subscription until the game go's under

Good idea's Justin ...I'll support any initiative to increase support for the game ,lets see what people suggest :)

 No offense but its subscribers like you that keep telling publishers/developers that they can release anything and someone will pay for it. This game warranted a damn BOYCOTT of all SoE games, thats how horrid this game was at launch and yes you might be having fun and loving the game but sometimes you need to take a step back and let it go for the community.

We as gamers could save Vanguard its as easy as everyone resubbing back to the 200k status it had at launch. Thing is Vanguard isn't worth saving anymore. It has to many negative things about it and it still isn't fixed in the bug department. And unless its been fixed as of recently I remember some of the abilities not working correctly too. Keep dreaming Vanbois/gurls but Let this game go away please. For the love of everything that is MMO, Sigil burned us by not commiting to the game, SoE burned us because they wanted to make money on it to early instead of waiting, and if we keep allowing these companies to burn us each time its our fault not theres. Let them pay, Kill the good game that is Vanguard, And stop letting Publishers and Developers get away with Robbery as they did on this game. Everyone deserved a refund on launch day, Everyone.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

THis is the Hero Engine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boqHWm3fQmc&feature=player_embedded

 

A modified version was used to make TOR. 

 

It's a commercial engine costing 100's of thousands of dollars. 

However, Simutronics is soon releasing an indie version  of the engine that will be considerably less expensive. 

 

 

http://mmorpgmaker.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=51

 

It's very unusual that you will be able to get your hands on the same or similar engine a commercial MMORPG was built with. 

 It will be similar in things it can do only thing is you wont get the same kind of perks. Which are useful and they usually leave out a few features but if you know how to code you can do the stuff yourself just takes longer hence the reason why commercial users dont want to spend that extra time coding.

Originally posted by SequenceLost

 HUH hope you mean for these new mmos and not Everquest. Having and EPIC in EQ meant you did spend time with groups of people online and you had a social life within the game. Thats what to me makes Epic weapons in EQ so awesome. The hard battles and having to overcome them with your guildies. Then getting to show it off to the rest of the gamers that envy you because you did accomplish something in the game.

If I may, I'll once again refer to my previous statement:

" Just a simple note to those of you out there that do "wave the epeen around", the rest of us really dont care.  When you show off that special item you got after only 33 hours straight of gaming, the rest of us with lives outside of the game world, simply sit back in our chairs, shake our heads and laugh at you. "

 

Being laughed at and being Envied are two completely different things.

 Well then i say to you sir or maam your full of S***. Yeah you can have a life outside of the game my fault for wording it incorrectly because i didnt get my EPIC all quick like that in 33hours it took months but i felt like i did something inside the game that was satisfying. I have a life outside of MMO's and it come first and always but i play to have fun and EPICs to me bring you into the game community aswell and not have you sitting there like a LONER everytime you log in to play.  Where is the fun in that. Im not saying you have to get an EPIC but to say i sat there n laughed at someone who was showing it off is ubsurd.

Originally posted by SequenceLost

Thank you for posting this and saving me the hassle!  After reading the OP I was thinking the exact same thoughts and was prepping myself to post a response, but you completely hit the nail on the head here.  As I continue on through my years of gaming I find it seriously pathetic how many folks complain because for whatever reason (change in payment method, changes to game play, etc) they get "digitally castrated" and cant fathom the idea of not being able to wave their giant epeen around.  When did MMO's stop being about having fun with groups of online friends and all about showing off your new nifty-difty *Insert game item here*?

  Just a simple note to those of you out there that do "wave the epeen around", the rest of us really dont care.  When you show off that special item you got after only 33 hours straight of gaming, the rest of us with outside of the game world, simply sit back in our chairs, shake our heads and laugh at you.  I understand a large percentage of MMO player base is comprised of younger teens that have a lot of free time, are going through "changes" in their lives, and who dont fully understand how to control themselves, but it really saddens me when folks who claim to be 18, 25, 30+ years of age still feel the need to act out in this manner or try and convince the rest of us that a specific game is no longer worth playing just because they no longer have that ability.  Honestly, I welcome LOTRO F2P with open arms.  Im not a huge fan of most F2P games, but Turbine did a bang up job with DDO if you ask me and once its F2P I may actually spend some quality time back in LOTRO again.  On top of that I will likely have friends who normally dont play MMO's due to subscription fee's right there along side me if I do.

 HUH hope you mean for these new mmos and not Everquest. Having and EPIC in EQ meant you did spend time with groups of people online and you had a social life within the game. Thats what to me makes Epic weapons in EQ so awesome. The hard battles and having to overcome them with your guildies. Then getting to show it off to the rest of the gamers that envy you because you did accomplish something in the game.

Originally posted by Kungaloosh1

 Originally posted by Goldknyght

Originally posted by Kungaloosh1

At least Lotro is going the f2p way with their shop instead of charging a sub AND operating a shop like that steaming turd john smedly for eq1/eq2.

 You cant get nothing of value from EQ/EQ2 shops except xp pots so wtf you talkin about. Sub or not the shop doesnt benefit any player unless you want xp pots. LOTRO is going to have real items on there shop so get a clue.

 You are obviously ignorant of what the word "value" means. It means different things to different people.

Example, the furniture items that are offered on the eq2 shop are items that could have been added as recipes for crafters, making their skillset worth more.

The other items in the shop, including pets and costumes and whatnot are all things that truthfully belong as items that can be quested for or bought in game, not with your visa card.

 

If eq2 would go the true free to play route and put game changers in their store, then that would be fine. That's the model, go with it.

But to withhold items from the game unless you buy them seperate, it shows you as a greedy gus.

 

Kudos to lotro for having the guts to go ahead with their model. They aren't hiding anything. It is up front and honest. They know not everyone will like it, but if it keeps them in business and makes them more profitable, cool.

 No i interpret VALUE to things that can CHANGE the aspect of the game. Furniture and and costumes and COSMETIC things are not of any VALUE to the game. They are just trinkets that look cool or differant then what other people have. You cant BUY yourself and EPIC weapon, You CANT BUY yourself epic armor, you cant BUY anything that will help you in a raid that you cant already get for free if your raiding other then XP pots. Yes people may think of those things as valubale to them but it doesnt change the game in any way at all. So no im not ignorant you are because you cant understand wtf im tell you because your fixated on stupid cosemetic value crap thats on the damn marketplace.

Originally posted by Kungaloosh1

At least Lotro is going the f2p way with their shop instead of charging a sub AND operating a shop like that steaming turd john smedly for eq1/eq2.

 You cant get nothing of value from EQ/EQ2 shops except xp pots so wtf you talkin about. Sub or not the shop doesnt benefit any player unless you want xp pots. LOTRO is going to have real items on there shop so get a clue.

No Lotro going to F2P only makes me feel like i was correct in the decison i made not to by that pile after Open Beta. Games that have to go F2P are crappy games to begin with. They are in my mind only there to fill that gap of nothing to do while you wait till the next Premium MMO comes out. F2P games could make alot more money if they made the market not about obtaining items but rather an item graphic like EQ does with there marketplace. You still have to go and get that prestige item but you can turn into some other kind of graphic to make it unique. And with me saying that i mean have alot of customizable graphics for the items. People will buy them. And make a game have AA's like EQ so that EXP is needed so people will buy XP pots because there is 4k+ AA's they can earn after max level. Dont make heal pots because that should be a Crafters item i agree but running or leviate type pots have them on the market but at a low price. That way people would rather buy them from a crafter in game because they can make the money in game money to buy the item from crafters it would only be a last resort to a player to buy them off the market place because crafters just havent put any on the market to buy at the time you need it. F2P could actually be a good format if they follow some of my advise. Yeah you wont make a killing but you should make a F2P game with a 50buck price tag at launch like Guild Wars. Not saying the game should play like guild wars just saying that model. You will make your inital money which will pay for the budget and you will make a lil coin not alot but a little profit and then just use the market place to keep the servers up n pay the crew that fixes bugs. If you need money just release good content through expansions and i mean good content not this crap we seen with EQ when they were releasing xpacs every 2 days. I love EQ but i think they lost alot of luster when they did that. Because i remember playing and i was just starting to get into the first game then Kunark came out. so i go explore kunark to see velious come out and im like damn i still havent even finished EQ original yet. Then i just couldnt keep up with the costs to play and not even get to use the content. Hell i bought luclin and i dont even think i did anything in luclin till OOW came out. other then goto bazaar. I know people dont want to hear it but Capitolism is what is killing the genre and i know you want to make money but if you love the genre you will be happy with not raping your playerbase and you will have a solid game.

Well this is all i can tell you dont listen to no fanboi/gurl and EQ2haters. Just download the trial and find out. You can do pretty much anything on the trial version except send tells unless ur responding if im correct. And no its not because SoE hates trial people its because of the damn SPAMMERS who would just make a new trial account and spam the shit out of everyone. So yes you suffer for it if u dont subscribe.

They survive by making a game people want to play and not try and be Blizzard. Blizzard got retarded lucky because all the MMO's that at the release of WoW worth mentioning were good games. EQ, EQ2, and DAoC. Problem was WoW could play on computers EQ couldnt and EQ was released in 1999. There is alot of people that love the Warcraft IP and alot of non RPGers know the Warcraft IP and probably didnt know they were about to play a nerd game essentially  and got hooked on WoW because RPGs are ADDICTIVE no matter what type of gamer you claim to be. From sports only gamers to sim only gamers. They here from a friend enough times try this game out, just try it. ANd boom there hooked.

My opinion WoW was successful because of the Name. Everquest sounds like a nerds game as does Dark age of Camelot. So even if you try n say try this game out you will like it a cautious sports game only player would say naw im ok. But with the name world of warcraft, a sports only gamer would say hmm it has War in its name so it cant be too crappy. And boom there hooked because WoW didnt start out with 11mill subs they had the normal 200-400k range of players for quite some time in the beginning.

Originally posted by Dmyankee

Look at SWG ... it is still floating and around ...

 Till SWTOR is released. Vanguard is doomed regardless unless it goes to a F2P system anyways. No one wants to pay the 15 bucks to play this damn game anymore. Yes the Isle is packed but its packed with Non Subbed people that once they finish the isle they are poof no where to be found. I made the mistake several times listening to all you VanBois n VanGurls that say oh pops up pops doing this and so what because i like fantasy mmo's and yet everytime its a barren landscape and no one is grouping like these vanbois/gurls would like you to believe. I like vanguard but it screwed to many people to many times and it will never get played by those players again unless they can play it for free.

nm here is forum link

http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?topic_id=53481

because no one is playin in EU too? Maybe dunno prolly isnt legit then if its not on vgplayers