All Posts by Dracis

I only know of three options for what you're looking for.

Realm Crafter ( http://www.realmcrafter.com/catalog/information.php?info_id=6 ), which isn't all that great but it is getting a graphics update. It only costs about $50.00.

Multiverse ( http://www.multiverse.net/ ), which is completely free until you start charging your customers.

Finally TGEA ( http://garagegames.com ), which has an open source MMO project being developed by the folks who did and still do run Minions of Mirth.

I would suggest in the future though you search these forums and do a little internet searching as well. You'd be surprised what Google will bring up.

Originally posted by spikenog

Originally posted by Dracis

Originally posted by spikenog

Originally posted by Sonno

I don't care who is responsible for it, I'm boycotting both of them. They both suck. Niether could give a rats ass about their products or their customers; only the $$$. Screw em both is all I gotta say about it.

Hate to break it to you...all companies only care about the money.

Funny mine doesn't. My small indie dev company is about developing a community of players and a family of developers. I know, I know, ideas completely unheard of in today's day and age.

And this small indie dev company does not want to make a profit?

Look, I'll be honest, we're not a convential "indie" game developer either. We have a different business model than most. Unlike most developers, we don't want to pink slip half the employees once the major project is done. I've just gone out and spent $12K on servers because we got tired of dealing with hosting issues, not to mention hiring someone full time to run the servers. I wouldn't have spent all the money I have if I didn't hope to make some of it back, but it takes time, patience, and a little luck.

At least our company isn't like half of them out there at the moment trying to start building an MMO from scratch, without any prior experience. Look at the Developer section on the site here once and a while and you'll see everyone and their brother thinks they have the next, newest, and best thing in the MMO genre. While we do want to make an MMO eventually, I'd rather concentrate on building quality games, a good community and a family of developers. After that, the rest should hopefully take care of itself.

Originally posted by salvaje

 

Originally posted by iwantmyswg

 

Originally posted by firefly2003

Oh well, when the game gets canned then this long war between the two $OE love and HATE will end finally end. Which I really hope is soon since it seem no communication is taking place at the SWG forums about pretty much anything the communication between the community and the devs as I have dug thru has been getting less so it seems something is going on there insidiously.....

a war that we the vets have already won.

 

and this war will go on. no game or mmo should be anything like the nge.

 

And no company that does something like the NGE should be allowed up off the mat and to survive.

I've always said that I blame SOE and LEC both, though I throw more of my blame at SOE.  Even if LEC handed them the design document for the NGE and told them to do it (which is not true), SOE still implimented it in a piss poor manner.  Even today, 2 years on, the thing isn't even stable enough to call a beta.

 

You know this question keeps coming up about who suggested the NGE and I swear that Smedly stated in an interview that he went to the head of LEC and suggested it. I know it's been posted here(in this forum) before, I just can't find it at the moment.

Originally posted by spikenog

Originally posted by Sonno

I don't care who is responsible for it, I'm boycotting both of them. They both suck. Niether could give a rats ass about their products or their customers; only the $$$. Screw em both is all I gotta say about it.

Hate to break it to you...all companies only care about the money.

Funny mine doesn't. My small indie dev company is about developing a community of players and a family of developers. I know, I know, ideas completely unheard of in today's day and age.

Music is often a much overlooked aspect of games.

@ the OP: If you have a serious amount of music to put up for sale, might I suggest Garage Games ( http://www.garagegames.com ) .I own several music packs from them and they are all done by indie artists.

Also, if you're giving some music away, I'd suggest the Game Creators ( http://www.thegamecreators.com/ ), as they have FPS Creator and other game design programs as well as their own assets, including music and they are located in the U.K.

Oh and yes, just like the other folks here suggested, it's always a good idea to have a sample handy for folks to listen to.

Originally posted by solareus

Good job pix, though Dark and Light still operates ..... I guess the job is done. See you never again in this forum section

I guess you're missing the point once again solareus. This was the counter suit by NPCube against VWorld, not the main suit of VWorld suing NPCube. So that case is still not settled by what I'm reading, although it looks very good for _Pix_ when the counter suit is dismissed and NPCube is fined.

I would suggest Overlord: http://www.garagegames.com/products/109/ . It's a pretty good system and I own it myself for working with contractors or working with other programmers over the internet.

Originally posted by Zorvan

 

Basically my point is that someone taking your car/house/tractor/etc. are things that affect a persons real life. These are real life issues.

 

A company changing a game to something you don't like is not on the same scale..at all. I take your car/house/tractor/etc., I've caused you financial and emotional distress. I change a game you play, you cancel your sub and find another game.

If changing a game causes the same emotional distress as losing real life items, as it appears it does to some of the more "outspoken" vets apparently, that's not SOEs' fault. That's a mental health issue.

Now, I don't come here and rant everyday like others do. I have moved on and have tried other MMOs, like you and I both tried the other notrorious MMO, which shall remain nameless .  I just don't want you to think that everyone who had an emotional attachment to SW:G has mental issues either.

Originally posted by Kanubis

OMG.. that was my server. LRDP, TSA, Lukis, Mojo-the-way-uglier-than-my-char Twi'lek... 

 

/nostalgia 

Mine too...lends shoulder 

Originally posted by Zorvan

If it's true, I am glad to hear about the "dialog heaviness" of the script. I'm tired of mmorpg dialog and story being kept short for the ADD crowd.

Agreed . But remember, because of all that reading they changed the game in the first place. I hope that interview haunts Nancy McIntyre for the rest of her life.

I have a feeling that they are either A) repackaging it into another "Starter Kit" or B) moving everything over into the new Station Launcher. I can't seem to find anything but SW:G time cards on the Lucas Store and SW:G is not even for sale on SOE's online store. It's pretty sad that they can't even seem to handle the move from D2D back to their own online stores in a timely manner.

I swear there used to be some form of notification on MMORPG.com as far as PM's go. I can't remember if it was via email or a small pop up window, but I thought there was some sort of reminder/notification that you had a new PM.

Is there any way to add this function to the site or re-add it, if it was taken off? I don't send or recieve that many PM's, but I have noticed that I had a few sitting there for days and didn't know it.

Just a small feature request if possible.

Originally posted by salvaje

I've been predicting and so far have no reason to take it back that 2008-9 is going to see a crash in the MMO industry.  There are far too many similar games and concepts chasing the same type of MMO player.

This will cause a lot of bad companies to exit the market.  In the end it will be a good thing.

There is plenty of money to be made in MMORPG's, if you don't go "gold fever" mad and think that anything short of WOW like numbers is a failure.  So far the only successful MMO launch since WOW is LOTRO, a typical WOW clone, but it's fallen short of 1 million.

In time, even WOW will fade.  Will it die?  No, of course not, but eventually the WOW kiddies will grow up and want to play a real game.

 

I still don't understand why a game with 250k players is considered a failure. Heck Minions of Mirth, which is by far the most successful indie MMO I know of, has about 30k people playing it and they continue to refine it all the time and make it better. It's not the prettiest game out there, but at least you don't have all the corporate BS to deal with.

I've always personally thought has SW:G stayed the course and not done the CU/NGE that people from WoW would have eventually graduated from to SW:G. I guess I'm saying the original version of SW:G came out before it's time. Let's hope the future of MMO's and the gaming industry will eventually grow up. After all video games aren't just for kids.

Originally posted by hubertgrove

Originally posted by Dracis

 

Originally posted by salvaje

Well, I guess years and millions of dollars will have to be wasted before I'm proven right and we start seeing MMO's once again reaching for their potential.

Casual gamers want to buy something they will pay at most $50-60 for EVER, play it for a few weeks to months, then take back to the gaming store and trade in for credit for the next "shiney" that comes out.

This model works with console gaming.  I don't see how it could ever be translated into funding the massive development and operating costs of even the simplest MMO.

Even the most basic MMO makes money because of commitment (ie: the subscription fee).  Even changing that to RMT amounts to the same thing.  You've already shot one foot off and are reloading to shoot the other when from the get go you are going to try to market this to the uncommitted.

 

To counter that point and once again let me state that I'm looking through "corporate dev eyes", look at things like Webkinz (not sure if it's spelled properly), or Hello Kitty Online, ToonTown, and other such titles. While they may not be MMO's by our standards, they are for kids who are more fickle than the typical adult casual gamer. But yet these things are profitable and becoming more popular. Like I've said, this is the corporate mentality at the moment.

 

I don't like that direction anymore than you do salvaje. If I had the millions that were wasted on SW:G post NGE alone, I could probably build an MMO that would make most of us vets here happy. Unfotunately, I have to build up my business slowly and develop the resources to do that. If I won the lottery tomorrow then you're damn right I'd begin hiring the people it would take to build an MMO you, me, and many other core gamers would want. It's just too bad life doesn't work that way, nor does the industry.

Yes, but Salvaje's point is that there is room for more than one type of MMO to be profitable in the marketplace - just as there is room for many different types of car into the automotive market. His objection - and mine too - is that at the moment there seems to be pretty much only one type of MMO under development.

It's going to take a game like EvE or a game like pre-CU SW:G get over 1 million subscribers to get the industry to take a second look at the "Core gamer" type of MMO. And like salvaje said, it's going to waiste millions of dollars of basically our money for them to find that out.

Originally posted by salvaje

Well, I guess years and millions of dollars will have to be wasted before I'm proven right and we start seeing MMO's once again reaching for their potential.

Casual gamers want to buy something they will pay at most $50-60 for EVER, play it for a few weeks to months, then take back to the gaming store and trade in for credit for the next "shiney" that comes out.

This model works with console gaming.  I don't see how it could ever be translated into funding the massive development and operating costs of even the simplest MMO.

Even the most basic MMO makes money because of commitment (ie: the subscription fee).  Even changing that to RMT amounts to the same thing.  You've already shot one foot off and are reloading to shoot the other when from the get go you are going to try to market this to the uncommitted.

 

I don't like that direction anymore than you do salvaje. If I had the millions that were wasted on SW:G post NGE alone, I could probably build an MMO that would make most of us vets here happy. Unfotunately, I have to build up my business slowly and develop the resources to do that. If I won the lottery tomorrow then you're damn right I'd begin hiring the people it would take to build an MMO you, me, and many other core gamers would want. It's just too bad life doesn't work that way, nor does the industry.

Originally posted by salvaje

I disagree.  The hardcore market is gold, as proven by EVE's success.  Want to make money for a long time?  Follow the sandbox model.  EVE proves that a true sandbox that is pretty hardcore will grow over time, even as the game approaches being 5 years old.  EVE has more subscribers than any single SOE game, btw, having passed 220K and projected to close 2008 at 300k! 

Which player do you think over time pumps more money into the game, a hardocre EVE player, or a fickle, "i wantz shineyz" casual player who will pick up a game and drop it after at most weeks like most console players do?

"Casual" gaming will only make you money if it is:

1. Cheap to develop because you wont' have as long to recoup your development costs

2. Damn near perfect at release because while your "target audience" isn't expecting depth or complexity, being an uncommitted "casual" player he will expect "instant gratification" upon first starting the game.  Glaring bugs, stuff that doesn't work won't be tolerated. 

3. Budgeted in such a way as to be able to make money with HEAVY churn (ie: turnover of players).

In my mind, looking at EVE, and looking at the failure of damn near every MMO launched since WOW (except LOTRO) the sandbox model appealing to the committed, rather than the "casual" WOW clone is the much smarter investment.  Sandbox players, if handed a great framework, will tolerate more, will be more patient, and will stick it out for the long haul if made a partner in the process. 

The "casual" player has to be instantly satisfied with perfection right out of the gate, or your whole investment is wasted.  After all, he can choose another of the dozens of WOW clones that will be out soon, why does he have to play yours that has massive lag (despite low populations), a combat system that doesn't work, unrealistic graphics (stuff shooting through objects) to name a few examples of how badly put together the "casual" NGE game is?

 

 

The other thing I disagree on though is quality. As an industry and as one dev who will never release anything until it's done, we need to move to more quality than quantity. That's why we see things like so many fluff games coming out for the Wii than we see really good core games coming out for the PS3 and Xbox 360. That is Microsoft's actual target marketing at the moment, just so you know. More core games for the core player, hence I own a Xbox 360 for me and a Wii for my daughter. I guess part of it is the U.S. dev/publishing companies look at how the Korean market can churn out MMO after MMO and still turn a profit. While the core gamer in each country is different, this is the approach SOE has taken and I know of others like EA, who are trying to follow the same model.

I guess this is one area where I can see both sides of the arguement, so please understand that. As a whole I know where you guys are coming from, heck I'm with you, but I'm just trying to state the mentality that's in the industry right now.

Originally posted by salvaje

Very good points.  The "instant gratification" model won't work in this industry, either as game design or as a business revenue model.

If bloated, large companies can't handle the type of model that makes successful MMO games, then they will exit the industry.  Which won't be a bad thing in the long run.

 

Now, I realize this is just a matter of opinion and I apologize if I have gotten away from the original purpose of this thread. I would say SW:G was always a niche game, as is EvE. So I voted 250k-500k. I'm not saying that SW:G being a niche game is bad. Even pre-NGE with about 250k people (if that number is corrrect) SW:G was still profitable and there is still a place for niche MMO's in todays market, like PotBS. I will say that if we had actually gotten the first version of the CU, the one that fixed alot of problems, probably would have reveresed the slow bleeding of subscriptions.

Originally posted by SioBabble

 

Originally posted by Dracis

I read on the official boards that the deal with D2D ran out and it's being moved to the SOE online store. I thought Valara had posted about it, but I can't find the thread now.

Unfortunately it's not the end, but I have been known to be wrong...

 

I'm a bit confused as to why SOE elected to give D2D exclusive rights to this game and cease all sales of it themselves, but then SOE might have wanted to save some bandwidth from their transaction servers for a bit while they retool or something.

Still, it is rather amusing that RoTW and ToOW are priced as they are when you can by the whole shebang for less.

The price point for ToOW hasn't gone down far enough for me to consider re-purchasing it after I got my refund over two years ago on it.

Then again, the price point on access to the basic game itself hasn't gone down low enough for me to consider reactivating any of my three accounts.

I agree though the prices for the expansions are ridiculous when you can buy one game with all the expansions. I guess they left it up for those who want the additional items that came with those expansions. Anything SOE does marketing wise is a complete mystery I guess. You have to wonder how they even stay in business at times. I realize not every game from SOE is like SW:G, but when you're running 20+ servers for one game that could probably due with 6, it's like throwing money out the window. Maybe that's the reason for all the lag, they lease out their servers to D2D for downloads? New conspiracy theory anyone?

Originally posted by FikusOfAhazi

Originally posted by Dracis

Ok, I've tried to avoid posting here for the past several days, because even I can't stand the stupidity at times. I dislike, hate, loathe, what ever you want to call it SOE's unethical business practices, as do most of you folks.

I also watch the official forums as well to see what is going on there. Now, let me say this and say it for the last damn time, "We vets do not need to fight between ourselves!" Fishermage is one of the few people who I consider a vet, that I see post on the official forums. Not because he posts here, not because he dislikes what SOE did or is doing, but because he stands up for himself and beleives that by at least stating our beliefs here on the official forums he is a good thing. Which he is.

We've talked about lawsuits, and we've talked about subscriber numbers, and we've talked about the changes made to the game. Most of it is just BS. I've tried to be the voice of reason but obviously some of you folks would rather turn your hatred of SOE on to someone who does not deserve it. Im a little confused..who is turning their "hatred" on who..sorry Im slow just trying to understand nothing more.

When I see posts like the ones above insulting other vets, I cringe at calling myself one. What a sad state of affairs this vet community is in.

 

Moaky's rant is that by anyone saying SOE is a bad company hurts the players of SOE's other games, like EQ and EQ2, which apparently Moaky plays. Well, I most certainly disagree. SOE does more to hurt itself than we could ever hope to and not only regarding SW:G. They've done bad things to EQ and EQ2 as well, so we folks in SW:G are not alone. We just have the destinction of having the most radical change done to our game.

The thing is SOE has one thing and one thing only on it's corporate mind, money. While I know game development is a "For profit" business, you can't always do what ever you want to the current players of that game, just because you think you'll make more money from new people. SOE does not care one iota for it's customers or the service they run and would sell any of their current customers out for the latest, greatest, newest thing if they think they can make more money by doing things completely differently.

_Pix_, you must have the patience of a Saint. I will admit if the same thing would have happened to me, I'd have probably flown to Reunion Island and done more than given the folks at Farlan a good talking to.

Well, hopefully you can get this all resolved as soon as possible and in your favor.