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All Posts by Voqar

All Posts by Voqar

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Originally posted by Ranadicus
I suspect this is as much about putting gold sellers out of business as adding a subscription option

Almost.  A little maybe.

 

It would be nice if any "news" outlet could ever cover the real story.

 

It's not so much about putting gold sellers out of business as it is BEING the gold seller for a variety of reasons.

 

1.  There is no lack of players out there who want to cheat and are willing to pay lots of cash to cheat.  It doesn't matter if it's easy to get stuff in the game by playing it - it's even easier to just buy your way thru.

 

2.  It costs a lot of money to try to code to deal with bots, gold farmers, pay for customer service dealing with banning cheaters, restoring accounts of fools who get hacked after dealing with gold sellers, and so on.

 

3.  And yeah, why let some 3rd party make money off your players when you could not only make that money yourself - probably even more since $5 per transaction is likely more than gold sellers usually average per transaction in profit, AND cut down on customer service expenses AND blow off even attempting to deal with gold sellers, bots, and/or cheaters.

 

Corporations are all about greed - why let somebody else make the money that's there on top of paying more expenses?

 

It's win, win, win for Bliz and all the other companies who do this.

 

They market it as a way to pay for your sub by playing, and all the "news" sites give them extra advertising parroting that nonsense, and sure, that does happen, but the underlying bigger picture is that it enables cheaters and without those cheaters ultimately buying your gold for their cash, with the magic token in between, none of this system ever happens.

 

The $5 fee isn't some extra sub fee, it's the transaction fee on the gold for cash sale.

 

It's not like these companies would ever just let you pay for your sub for in-game gold WITHOUT there being SOMEBODY paying cash SOMEWHERE - and in all of the cases where companies do this, those people are paying well above the cost of the sub for the token/sub/whatever they're selling to you in game for gold.

 

Bottom line is it's cash for gold, which used to be cheating, til the host companies decided to market as not and to make money off of it themselves instead of incur expenses running a game with integrity.

 

Considering how much Bliz has made off of WoW, and how ridiculous their prices are for basic account services on top of the sub you already pay (like name changes and other simple data things they fully automate and charge comically high amounts for), I think it's even sleazier than ever that Bliz would stoop this low for a few extra bucks.

 

Bliz is like, we're shutting down RMAH in Diablo 3 because it takes away from the game - but we'll go ahead and facilitate gold sales in WoW because that's great for game integrity and quality.  I guess they weren't making enough off RMAH to justify keeping that slime rolling.

 

Beyond all the corporate greed and slime involved in all of this, I think I find it even sadder that players just don't care and are so accepting of cheaters or desiring themselves ways to grease the wheels of gaming that this kind of stuff doesn't get any criticism at all out of gaming media or the community.

 

As SOE might say, play it your way - even if that means paying to win, buying gold for cash - whatever dudes, just give us your money.

It's a dark day when Bliz abandons quality in favor of more profit when they're already drowning in cash from WoW.

 

It's so sad when people discuss this, like in this article, as a "cool way to pay for you game sub with in game gold" when the reality is, these systems are all marketed that way, which sounds neato, but the bottom line is that all of these systems allow players to buy in game gold for cash - ie, cheat.

 

For most of MMORPG buying accounts, buying gold, and otherwise cheating at the game has been against the terms and bannable - because, you know, cheating at games is pretty lame.

 

But because companies would rather not have to incur the expense of dealing with cheaters, and because there are so many losers out there wanting to cheat at games, and because they can instead easily make easy money by facilitating the cheating themselves, several low life companies have already built this kind of thing into their games.

 

I surely never expected Blizzard to lower their standards to the bottom of the barrel like this.

 

If you're too gutless, stupid, pathetic, or whatever to actually PLAY games you buy and would rather "play" your way by cheating and buying gold to ease your way thru, how about instead just not play and do something more your speed like coloring books or starting at a wall drooling?

 

It's sad that there are so many people who want to cheat at these games that rather than deal with the cheaters, the host companies would rather facilitate the cheating themselves and make a bit of extra profit selling the gold themselves.

 

It's sad that the so-called gaming press treats this like it's some kind of great feature.  Yeah, the idea of paying for your sub with in-game gold is cool, and if companies just did that and it ended there it would be cool - but they couldn't make any money doing that.

 

As soon as they flip it into a situation where players pay even more than the usual cost of a sub to buy a token they sell in-game for game currency, it's all just cheating, facilitating cheating, making a nice bit of money for nothing off of cheaters, and it makes the games involved not worth playing for anybody who cares about quality of game.

 

Do YOU want to play on servers knowing that a lot the players around you are buying their way thru the game with cash?  It's as bad or worse than your average F2P pay to win sleaze.

 

The overall state of MMORPGs has been very crappy for a while now and news like this just makes it worse.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Is this one of the better F2P options.

That's like saying which turd stinks the least.  F2P for MMORPGs is garbage.

We need more races like the Elin from TERA - races that look like sexy children so the pervs and pedos out there can get their "ooh ahh" on.  Ok, just kidding, keep unclenched.  But I do kind of find Elin creepy.  Very creepy.

 

I'm probably in the minority who prefer the more standard races and who find the more exotic races less appealing.  I tend to prefer making elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings - something other than humans - but still want some degree of familiarity.

 

I think it's even worse in games that totally make up their own lore and races and you can't really relate to anything at all.

That's because F2P MMORPGs generally suck?

 

F2P works very well for a game like LOL where there's zero pay 2 win and it's a simpler game.  I've thrown money at that game to buy skins or champs and felt like it was a worthy thing and that I wasn't cheating.

 

F2P in MMORPGs far too often involves pay 2 win and there's no enjoyment for normal people in playing games where you pay to cheat or are surrounded by blatant cheaters.

 

The games that let you pay cash for game gold IN the game (WildStar, EVE, GW2, Rift, etc) are even worse - that's completely blatant built-in cheating.

 

A lot of F2P is companies realizing there are lots of (crappy IMO) players who'd rather buy their way thru games or cheat at games than actually play them and they're catering to those people.  It's garbage.

 

The other element is, and I'll continue to go on about this forever, is that MMORPG game when it's good is niche.  REAL MMORPG gameplay is about grouping, challenge, and danger - and that is something that is less appealing to casuals and not something that works for solo.

 

As long as companies keep putting out what are essentially generic single player games with little challenge and no point in existing (since real single player games tend to do single player experiences far better) then what is the point?  You're not going to get casual soloists heavily invested and sticking around for utterly genreic gaming even when it's designed FOR THEM.

 

Way more games are online now.  There's way more competition for retaining online gamers.  MMORPGs would be better served by focusing and doing what they do best (and what no other genre does at ll) - the grouping stuff- and being content with smaller numbers of dedicated players and stop trying to be everything to everybody and doing a poor job of it.

 

LOTS of genres do PvP better than MMORPGs.  MMORPGs are PvE/RPG at the core.  The PvP is always weak or even weaker instanced/fake/sideshow stuff.

 

Lots of games do single player way better.

 

Lots of games have co-op but no games do the full on group experience like MMORPGs - and MMORPGs should go back to focusing on that instead of failboating at what other genres do better.

 

And ditch the F2P since it's a crap model of trying to milk the lowest quality players of money.

They should qualify their statement - "our games are too hard to learn for console/mobile players"

 

Not that I can think of a single game EA has put out that's anything but ultra simple and simplistic due to the fact that they're designed console first and are already completely dumbed down.

 

I like for there to be a mix of games.  There's nothing wrong with a really good game that's not complex.  But I also like having really meaty games that challenge me or that have deep and compelling gameplay systems to delve into.  Variety is good.  For some players.

 

When you're corporate sludge and all you care about is pushing the most games to the most players to make the most money, the quality of game doesn't really matter - just the sales.  EA has exemplified this for a long time.

 

The same mentality has driven MMORPGs into the toilet.  It's a bummer that MMORPGs are so expensive to make as that results in it being nearly impossible for anybody to make a decent one without the corporate greed factor getting smeared all over the game.

 

And since all the corporate types care about are big numbers, you get crappy MMORPGs that aren't even MMORPGs aimed at console players, casuals, and wider appeal (none of which match the niche roots of good MMORPG gameplay) and weak MMORPG after weak MMORPG.

 

How many people are really all that excited about any of the currently out generic corporate style MMORPGs or any of the other dookie piles coming out any time soon?  This weak type of MMORPG has long run its course and it's time for some returning to the genre's roots.

I really doubt this changes anything.  Mediocre MMORPGs with crappy F2P.  Just what the gaming world needs.  Oh yay.
Originally posted by chadkristen

So, this begs the question.  Why aren't superhero MMOs more popular?    

 

Because MMORPGs centered around characters who can do everything, soloing, mindless solo content, and casual gameplay suck and aren't worth playing?

 

MMORPGs were better when the genre was niche, was about grouping, cooperating, challenge, and danger.

 

Specifically with superhero lore you don't really have roles - everybody is amazing and does their own thing.  Even when superheroes team up they tend to do things as individuals.

 

Weak groups of super powerful soloists essentially sharing a chat channel is already well done by GW2.

 

Fantasy tends to latch on easier than other styles.  If you bake tanks, dps, and healers into your superhero game and setup superhero abilities that boil down to being spells or melee attacks you basically have weak fantasy in tights - may as well just play a fantasy game and ditch the goofiness.

 

Superhero stuff is more suited to pure solo (single player).  It's superman, not supermen.  It's wonderwoman, not wonderwomen.  Etc.  Some have sidekicks but the hero themselves is still "the man" or "the one"

 

I think another factor is that most MMORPGs make you out to be a hero but being a "superhero" is a whole different vibe and you just don't feel like a superhero in these games when you spend the bulk of your time fighting legions of minions (that should be trivial for a real superhero but due to pacing and progression are usually actually challenging) and you do tons of mundane and generic MMORPG stuff that isn't all that heroic.  Hey, superman, can you deliver this note to joe average over on bland street for me, I'll give you some new tights with +5 agility on them...

 

I doubt much changes.  They'll continue to push mediocre games as money grabs via F2P garbage suited for people who prefer to buy their way thru games.  About all that will change is they'll dumb their games down even more to blend into the mobile/phone cesspool better.
What's interesting to me is that minecraft is not that amazingly complex yet so many of the clones can't even come close to being as playable or enjoyable.  I have loved minecraft over time but have always felt like the game has the potential to be so much more (and their continued development is scatterbrained and glacial in pace).  But the clones usually don't even manage to to match minecraft at it's most minimal.
 
Actually, I say the same thing about WoW and MMORPGs.  WoW is no secret and so many try to clone it and fail miserably.

Very fun game.  Playing it co-op with my brother.  IMO the RPG aspects of this (and previously Dead Island) make the games vastly more enjoyable.  If it was just a "shooter" without the RPG parts it would be a lot less interesting.

 

One key element for me is the loot system.  Co-op games where you fight over loot are far less enjoyable.

 

BTW, I have an R9 290 and the game plays smooth as silk.  My brother has one of my older AMD cards and has no issues either.

 

So now they can make weak games with crappy F2P across more platforms.  Mediocrity, huzzah!

 

What MMORPG (since that's the only thing I'm interested in here at this site) has SOE ever created that was truly good?  They bought EQ, they didn't create it.  EQ2 is/was ok but not spectacular.  SOE has acquired a lot of mediocre MMORPGs over time and done nothing to improve them.  On top of that they have really crappy F2P that just makes games worse.

I've been banned from numerous forums over time (usually not permanently and even here) for violating terms.  Your opinion or interpretation isn't necessarily truth, and if you get banned for violating terms you agreed to, what's the problem?  You may mean well but it's not necessarily your job to police the web and there are likely better ways to do it that wouldn't get you banned.

I find this annoying.

 

ESO was always a terrible idea for a game.

 

ES is great - one of the best SINGLE PLAYER RPG franchises ever.  An ES VI would've been great.  ES VI with small scale co-op you could host yourself to retain what makes ES great (impact of decisions, rich content, personal experiences) would've been insane.

 

I love Skyrim.  So do a few of my friends.  If we could've played Skyrim together it would've been amazing, as one of the few negatives about it is not being able to share something so cool with a few close friends.  [mod edit]  One of the best parts about Skyrm/ES is the intimacy and that's shot once you have 30 people crowding around a quest giver or an empty dungeon waiting on respawns or fighting for kills with bots.

 

ES as an MMORPG was just a dumb idea.

 

What's annoying is that because they went subscription based and produced a steaming pile of dookie, it makes subs look bad, and makes all the F2P give me everything for nothing fanbois froth.

 

There's nothing wrong with subs - it's a great model for GOOD GAMES worth subbing to.  MMORPG history is littered with horrible games that make the whole genre look bad, and which make subs look bad, and ESO is just another example of an MMORPG that should never have been made.

 

I've said before that some games aren't worth a sub - that's my opinion.  At the same time, some games have been worthy and I never had a problem paying a sub.

 

I think the bigger problem with MMORPGs these days is that they are no longer MMORPGs, and as such are definitely not worth a sub.  Single player online games where you mostly solo on the same server as other people doing mindless nonsense isn't very compelling gaming.

 

MMORPGs need to go back to their roots - back to being something special - back to being something distinct - back to being about grouping, challenge, and danger.

 

Players have no reason to give a crap about the games that MMORPGs have become.  They have no reason to stay invested or stick around.  The antisocial me me me style games work for some players for sure, but for the WRONG players for good MMORPG gameplay.

 

Doubt it happens, because too few devs care about quality gaming and end up only being able to care about how much money they make their corporate overlords.

 

The few games that have decent slices of grouping, like WildStar, are still overloaded with solo idiot mode content and fluff content for casual players to plow thru in a few days and move on, and worse, WildStar has built in cheating with CREDD (gold for cash, why not make money off of cheaters too when there are so many losers playing MMORPGs?).  So even when a dev gts it somewhat right and has some challenging group content they still manage to screw up the game beyond playability (for anyone like me or my crew who won't play games with host facilitated gold for cash cheating in them - and we're pretty sick of generic solo ez mode too).

 

There are TONS of great single player games.  There's no reason to play an MMORPG when it's watered down solo easy mode content that happens to be on a server (or it's worse than single player since you're solo yet competing for resources/content with people you want nothing to do with)
Smaller niche games - those were the days, when MMORPGs were niche, and about grouping, challenge, and danger.  Modern MMORPGs all suck because they are mass/wide appeal solo idiot mode games that no longer resemble MMORPGs.  Toss in cash for gold - host companies facilitating the biggest of the cheating losers, and there isn't much lower that so-called MMORPGs can go anymore.

As an MMORPG dinosaur who prefers grouping over soloing, and who doesn't give a crap about PvP in PvE-centric games like RPGs/MMORPGs, I define class balance as...

 

All classes are equally important, bring something of value to the table that makes them useful in a group.

 

I don't care if class 1 can beat class 2 in a duel because dueling is stupid and has nothing to do with the big picture.

 

I don't care how any class performs in PvP minigames/sideshows/garbage that are irrelevant.

 

I don't care if every class can do high dps when there's more to grouping than dps.

 

I don't care which class is easiest to solo with when solo should be a sliver of the game and the game should be all about grouping and cooperating.

 

These days in modern MMORPGs "class balance" is more about every class being generic, being able to do everything or multiple roles, about every class being equally viable soloing since solo is the focus, every class being equally viable in duels or 1 on 1 in PvP, and IMO, you end up getting really boring classes and class systems where every class plays almost the same with minimal variance or character and the big difference between classes is the spell effects and ability names.

My view is that grouping is what makes MMORPGs what they are - it's what makes them stand out.

 

You can solo in tons of games.  Many games are single player.  You can chat online in a variety of ways.  You can PvP in any number of games.

 

No other type of game gives you the opportunity to do sophisticated PvE content as a group.

 

The push for money - to sell as many units and have as many players as possible - and in doing so dumbing down the genre going for wide/mass appeal, and also prioritizing solo over grouping, has turned the MMORPG genre into a steaming pile of generic garbage passing for games.

 

If your preference is to solo...why...why do you want to log on to a server and solo around other people that you don't want anything to do with?  Why not just play any of the far more numerous single player games, most of which have far better content and gameplay for "solo" if that's what you want?

 

If you don't have a focus on grouping in MMORPGs all you really have is really weak and watered down single player gaming where you happen to be logging in to a server to do it.  And some really crappy public chat filled with immature halfwits.

 

That's pretty much the modern MMORPG.  Solo focused easy mode with a bunch of pointless things to do.  A world where nobody cares much about anything except themselves.  The optional grouping is pretty weak.  The focus of the game is as much money throughput as the host company can finagle, not providing a high quality gaming experience unlike anything else.

 

The genre was better when it was niche - when it was about grouping, challenge, danger, and corporations weren't trying to milk as much money as humanly possible out of them and they could just be special and distinct games.

 

Casual soloists don't want grouping, challenge, or danger - they just want ez-mode and endless gratification for doing nothing.  Ie, they don't really want MMORPGs, they want tablet games in an online form.  Modern MMORPGs reflect this.  And they suck.

40 man raids are a stupid idea - I said it ages ago before release.

 

It was a dumb idea to try them again (after WoW clearly illustrated that it wasn't worth doing with a far larger population than WildStar could ever have).

 

It's content that requires a mindset that most players don't and won't have.  It requires guilds that are harder to lead, with stiffer job application type requirements, and there aren't enough players who will do it.

 

It's a monumental waste of development time to create content for an extreme minority and doubly stupid to create content that most of your players will never experience.

 

(which is why Bliz gave up on 40-man ages ago)

 

Times have also changed.  Back in the days of EQ and even early WoW, there was far less competition for people's online time.  Now there is WAY more everything online, including games, and way more MMORPGs, and people are less inclined to stick with just one MMORPG like we did back then.  This makes it even tougher to maintain ANY guild, let alone one that's trying to consistently field 40 people for challenging content or progression.

 

Too bad Carbine is hard-headed.  40 man was a bad idea but not something to turn me away from playing.  CREDD (facilitated cheating/gold buying...sleaze only suited to the worst of F2P trash) is what ultimately caused me to not buy and play WildStar, and not recommend it to any of my friends who play MMORPGs.  I'm simply not playing a game that has built-in cheating and it's especially not happening in a sub-based game with a premium box cost (it's bad enough that games like GW2 have the same type of built-in gold buying crap).

F2P games are trash.

 

GW2 is an ok online single player game but it's a crappy MMORPG, so why bother?

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