Originally posted by grunty

There is absolutely no way that someone else's use of a Mod would have any effect on what you see on your monitor.  There is no way.

I don't know about that there is always a way around stuff, but I will say that I doubt he saw what he thought he saw.

Back in the day when I before I first stopped playing WOW I used to use a Addon that allowed me to look like some type of wierd animal instead of a druid cat when I went to into cat form.  But that was client side to everyone else I was still the same.

Maybe someone found a way around this or maybe he was just not seeing what he thought he saw.

Originally posted by doc2552

PVP is out, Bring on RvR and WAR!

enough said.

Originally posted by bverji

 

Originally posted by Shiineko

 

Originally posted by todeswulf

More proof that a MMo based soley on PVP will fail every single time.

 

A mmo based soley on pvp will fail each time.... There's plenty of PvE only mmo's out there that have failed big time, too... does that mean the PvE genre is a failure?

 

No. Judge games based on their gameplay and appearance, not their genre.  This isn't really one of the best games out there and it gets quite dull.

That's a poor reactionary analogy. Sure there have been PVE games that have failed, but there have also been many PVE MMO's that have done very well. While I don't agree that a PVP MMO can't be successful at least I can admit that his observation is correect; thus far there haven't been any PVP focused MMO that haven't underformed.

 

Name some PVE MMO's that are without PVP and have done WELL.  And don't come here will Sims Online or Second life crap.  Names some real MMORPG's.

And as far as MMO's that were PVP more the PVE and did well I guess DAOC, UO, Asheron's Call, EVE, Lineage 1 and Lineage 2 where complete failures then huh?....

Keep trying carebears no one is really listening, no high Sub MMORPG out right now is without some form of PVP.  And those that tried to do it (EQ2/COH) quickly learned that was a foolish chooice and added PVP very soon after launch.

Originally posted by todeswulf

More proof that a MMo based soley on PVP will fail every single time.

And games that were all PVE did so well right?  Horizons.....

Like someone else said, if you make a crappy game regardless of what it is,  And also fail to market it correctly ofcourse your game will fail.  Also when 1/2 the people that try to play it complain that they cannot even run it, then guess what...

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Vato26 

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So you should keep on playing because the devs might add something to look forward for in the future? Sorry Im not buying that. Im not a powergamer but was bored at level 25 because I was basically doing the same things as I was at level 1 and from what I heard from powergamers that is basically what you would do at level 50, plus some meaningless PvP.

I guess, by your beliefs, a game should be fully finished before it even hits the door.  As in, all content finished and nothing else to look forward too.  Yeah... that's realistic.  People complain about the time it takes for mmorpgs to come out.  They complain even more when a game keeps being pushed back.  Just think how much longer it would take for a game to be released if the devs had to implement every single content, including endgame.  Yeah... it would be exorbitant, and people would bash that game for taking way too long in development.

 

OMG! A game released in a finished state and with end game content! How can that be? Hey man, just because you have become brainwashed in thinking that you should pay devs before they have finished the game then that is your problem. However that is not the norm of developing most products on the market.

As for what people would criticize (dont know why you seem to think that criticism equals bashing) the game for I cant say but I rather want a finished game instead of a prematurely released product.

 

Also, I think you are forgetting the whole basis for the story of this game.  It is based on wartime.  Therefore, you are continuously fighting the enemy.  Truly, what else do you do during wartime?  Play cards?  Chess?  I guess they could add those into the game as mini-games.  However, other than that, I fail to see what else could be added that wasn't war-based.  I've seen arguments for player housing (umm... I thought that was what the tents were for) or raids (more war-time content).  However, the main premise of war-time is  killing your enemies.

What wartime? I repeat from what I said before. There is no wartime, there is no way of affecting the war effort because there is no war effort. Its just some made up crap to give you an excuse to fire on endlessly spawning mobs and doing instanced, repeteable quests. This is supposed to be a MMORPG, meaning the world should be a persistant, virtual world where you as a player can interact and impact said world. That is how the ideas of MMORPGs started with UO.

Now, I agree that TR is not finished and lacks in some content.  However, it's nowhere near the doom and gloom you try to paint with your posts.  If devs have access to what the playerbase wants with accordance to content, then the devs have a better chance of making content that the playerbase wants.  However, with the mind-set of majority of beta testers in today's age, that proper communication of what the playerbase wants is not heard by the devs.  And, what I mean by that is, I find majority of beta testers are just in it to try out the game before anyone else, then complain that the game "sucks" (duh!  It is beta!) then leave and bash the game on whatever forums they post on.

From what I read the beta testers didnt just say it sucks. Many of them critizised (what you called bashing) the game and said why the game would be a failure. If you open your eyes and stop thinking that everyone who doesnt like the game is out to bash the game then maybe you would realise that the game has some major issues. I am not going to repeat those here but there have been many posts regarding the control points, logos, grouping (or lack thereof) and lack of content in this game. But this has all been ignored by the devs.

---

Will never happen? With that kind of attitude nothing, will ever evolve. I mean, for now I would be happy if they would just remove all these instanced quests and areas because they are against everything a persistant MMORPG stands for. I rather level by killing mobs because then it is atleast a bit believable that there is a source for these mobs that I kill and more can be produced/spawned. But telling a dying mans son that his father is dying  (some stupid quest at wilderness) a million times by million different people in the same persistant world is just retarted.

It's called realistic attitude.  What you want will never happen.  If player A does Quest A before any other player, then, by what you want, no other player would be able to experience Quest A.  It would prevent other paying customers from experiencing content that they've PAID to experience.  That's a bad system and promotes even more elitism.  Also, it would hinder the production of other content by the devs as they would continuously have to keep coming up with new quests to replace the ones that were already "experienced" by other players.  Yeah... that is not realistic.

This is excactly what I mean with having a single player mindset when playing a MMORPG. This isnt a single player! You are not paying to be able to experience every single content of the game because that is not possible in a virtual world where you are supposed to share the world. Do you understand the meaning of share? It means that not everyone can have everything, play a single player game if you want that and that is why Im saying that TR and many other MMORPGs released are nothing but single player games but in an MMORPG package.

And, about your complaint of instanced content.  I agree that instancing has gotten out of hand with some mmorpgs.  However, I view that the problem with not instancing is far greater and stems all the way back to EQ1.  Players camping mobs for hours at a time.  That didn't allow other players a chance to actually kill the mob to finish a quest or find a rare item they needed.  Hence, it prevented paying customers to experience content that they've PAID to experience.

Again... sharing and in this case competing for resources is one of the things you do when you share an online world.

---

They look the same but do alot of more damage and have alot more hp yet I can look alot more different than I did at player 1? That doesnt make any sense. Having not created enough models because you need to spend time to finish the game in other aspects isnt an excuse. I know that in the MMORPG industry it has become  a standard to release a game before it is finished for release yet some MMORPGs manage to not do so. Such as WoW, they had ten times as many models in the game at release than TR did and so did many other MMORPGs.

So, you are deciding to nit pick on the lack of models in the game.  You actually want more models rather than actual improved gameplay?  Because, that's basically what you just said in the section above.  Company's only have so much time before they have to release their games.  And, considering this amount of time, I definitely would prefer good gameplay over differences in model types (aka eye candy).

Again, I guess I have to repeat myself here, just because the gameplay is lacking doesnt mean you can neglect other areas. You finish all areas and then you release the game, I am a programmer myself and I know that you cant release products with lack of common features and then expect to keep that customer. He will just go to another product with these features and I hate to break it to you but there are scores of MMORPGs out there with many fold (ten was just a number, but it was significantly more) as many models as TR and that was at release. I know because I played all those games at release and TR is the one with the least amounts of models compared to any of the following games: WoW, EQ 1 & 2, AC 1 & 2, Shadowbane, UO, SWG, AO, CoH. Sure those games had problems but atleast they had enough models which made you feel that you were progressing the game.

And, yes WoW had a lot more models than TR does.  However, I believe you are pulling that "ten times as many models in the game at release" somewhere other than fact.  And, yes WoW had good gameplay.  However, WoW failed at one aspect at launch that TR did not... server stability.  TR had a smooth launch.  WoW's servers would crash if you had a certain amount of people in one area.  And, coming back to my original point here, I would prefer stable servers to differences in model types (aka eye candy).

What do you need server stability for if the rest of the game is lacking?

---

You said and I quote: "as you just want to continue to bash the game without actually using logic or reason." By bashing I assume you mean voicing my opinions? Yes not everyone doesnt have to agree with me but look around you, look at these forums and most importantly look at the servers. Four servers which are most of the time low to medium populated, that is weak for a game released just a couple of months ago. Even Garriot has admitted that the expected numbers of customers were higher than what it currently is. I wonder why that is...

No, I mean that you continually voice your negative opinion on a game that you have admitted that you don't even play anymore.  Personally, I have a large list of games that I have played and I thought sucked horribly (AC, Lineage 2, EQ1 just to name a few) yet you don't see me over on their forums voicing my hate for those games.  Nope... because I have moved on. 

So? That's your choice. Im on my spare time and if I want to spend my spare time expressing my opinion about the game so other people will not just get the fanboys point of view then that is my right. And I dont hate TR, its a casual single player game pretending to be a MMORPG, Im just expressing my, mostly negative, views on the game.

I leave those forums to the people who still play those games and actually want to discuss topics about the game other than having to continually defend their game from being bashed by people who haven't moved on with their hate of those games.

Uh? I guess we should then censor all negative opinions people have about products that they have used. If I hadnt actually played the game then you might have a point. But I have and Im expressing my experience with it, kind of like a review.

Reasons why there's low population: 

1. This isn't WoW, thus no millions of players at the release of the game to flood the game's servers. 
2. This game has had no official advertisements anywhere on the internet.  At least I haven't seen any advertisements of this game on any site I have visited on the internet.  Thus, that's a massive failure on the part of their marketing team (those guys should be fired).
3. Going back to my beta testers issue in one of my comments above... beta people trying the game (just so they could play before anyone else) and complaining that the game "sucked" without actually helping the devs improve the game.  Then, complaining about it on forums like these.  It's a common issue in many mmorpgs now-a-days.

 LOL! You have the reason this isnt wow as a reason for this game not being succesful. So by that logic then only WoW can be a succesful MMORPG?

Marketing is a way to get people to try the game, not to keep them playing the game. This game lacks so much content that even if people would try it they would get bored so quick. I got bored in less than two weeks which is the quickest in any of the MMORPGS I have played in my ten years of experience of MMORPGs. Possible exception is Horizon but that game was a joke, not a game.

Yes, all we are saying is that the game sucked. So the several houndreds of lines in my posts have been "it sucks" repeteated after each other. Maybe that is what you are seeing because you cant see past your fanatic fanboyism you have for this game?

 

 EDIT: I just want to add one last thing. You said that I should focus on single player games. That is funny because I feel the same about people that want instances, quests and a storyline which every player can follow. I mean, that is a single player experience but they want it in a MMORPG package which is contradictive to the very nature of MMORPGs since it is supposed to be a world where you share with thousands of other people and as such you cannot demand single player elements such as the same quest being done, the exact same way by thousands of people because that will kill the very spirit of living in the same world and sharing its resources.

And that is what is killing and have perverted the genre into some weird single player game but running pararell with thousands of other people playing the same single player game but somehow centralised on a server.

The issue of "instances" has already been discussed above.  Therefore, I will not comment on it again here.  "...quests and a storyline which every player can follow."  I thought that was the purpose of mmorpgs.  To allow every player to experience the content that the devs have placed for the paying customers.  Every argument you have seems to revolve around not letting every paying customer experience content.

 Yeah it may sound like that for you because you dont understand the concept of MMORPGs. You seem to think that MMORPGs are just single player games but running pararell to thousands of others on a centralised server. This is not what they are, or rather used to be, MMORPGs are about sharing a virtual world and its resources, to be one of many thousands and interact with those thousands to coperate and compete for the resources in that world.

 

 

LOL  giant block of colored text FTW.... You guys are nuts.

Its obvious the last two posters have issues and have been sipping on the HATERAID, since the OP wanted to know about EQ2's PVP yet they felt the need to start bashing WOW for some reason.

Now if we can get some people in here that would be so kind to actually talk about EQ2 and its PVP without it becomming a WOW bash.  Then  those of us that are thinking about trying this game would greatly appreciate it.

One question that I have off the top of my head is on the PVP server is there anything to fight over or is everyone just PVP to just kill each other.

Originally posted by Sornin

You are not being too hard, per se, you just must be a newcomer to the genre and thus have unrealistic expectations.

Mythic has been the most open developer in MMOG history.

I agree with that statement, previously that tittle belonged to Blizzard since at the time no MMORPG developer in the history of the Genre was so open as they were when the game was due to be released.

But Mythic has done one better, personally I like the house hold props and things like that.  Its interesting to me and often times funny.  Perhaps the OP should go out and grow a sense of humor and also stop thinking this is some epic film that is set to be released and expecting to see Movie trailers of the game.

Originally posted by Anofalye

PvP is already enforced too much in the game.  Shivans and nukes should not be in PvP zones.

 

It irritates me significantly already.

 

PvP should be lessen, not enforced more.  Open PvP options as much as you want, but never give it a PvE reward whatsoever, unless PvE also grant it at least as easily.  Shivans and Nukes are used in PvE, rarely in PvP.

 

Having to acquire them in PvP is bad.

 

I will not even bother to buy WAR/AoC because of the forced PvP.  Never even bother to try EvE, and I quit DAoC extremely fast.  Forcing PvP is a sure way to lose many potential players.  Any rewards linked to PvP that isn't available in PvE is a costy mistake, which reflect in lost subscribtions.

 

The only thing I hate more then Forced PvP is forced raiding.  And luckily for me, CoH/V offer your optional raiding...I even raid from time to time (errr...not often, don't get excited there), just because I CAN.  I usually rather group to earn the SAME reward, it is faster and funnier.

 

PS: I acquire shivans and nukes on a regular basic, but it irritate me everytime a noob attacks me and I feel no pleasure to defeat the (**&&%$.  In fact, it is a lose/standstill situation everytime some Noob PvPer attacks me (good PvPer never attacks an unwilling target, but that is another topic)...I didn't lose any battle for a very long time, but should I lose 1 nuke or some shivans because of that, you can be sure I wouldn't play the game for many days if I wouldn't outright cancel my subscribtion.  The game is lucky in a sense that I can send back home 3 gankers with their tails low assuming they are not hugging the floor.

 For some reason a baby with tears rolling down his face popped in my mind after this post.

Waaaaa Shivans waaaaa pvp waaaaa getting attacked waaaaa noob waaaa won't play for days.   ROFL

People like you are the reason why the game already has such a horrible PVP atmosphere as it is.  I mean you would think that have seperate zones for PVPers would be enough but you cry even with thats the case.

Originally posted by Mercer7

1.  Not yet, since the objective is to capture as many as possible.

 

2. I would like to know more about this as well... it sounded like it's a position that must be taken, similar to capturing a flag - which could be done by one person.  That would make for some great in-game drama, if guilds were making deals to get keeps and then breaking the agreements and claiming the rewards for themselves at the last minute.  It would also fit in with the corruption in the Empire.

 

3. Since we don't know exact info about portals or spell lists, there's no way to know... yet.

Just anothe reason why this game will be THE ONE to play in 2008.  These guys seem to get it, man I cannot wait to play this damn game.

I have a few questions that has come to mind though is that since guilds can hold keeps.

1. will there be a limit on how many keeps they can hold. 

2. If you have 2 or more guilds attacking the same keep and they finally overpower those inside, whats going to determine who gets to take that keep?

3. If your keep is getting attacked and your not there when you make your way back will there be some type of portal to get back inside or will you have to fight your way back in?

Oh well those are just a few questions off the top of my head and since there is no WAR official forums I thougt I would put them down here.

Cool beans and grats on your oppurtunity.

My question is GAMEPLAY related.

Q: Will there be some type of restriction placed on high level buffs being able to be cast on low level players by high level characters.    I. E.  will a level 80 be able to cast some high level buff on a level 20? Or will there be some type of  level restriction that will not allow that.

Reason why I ask this is due to the fact in AO level 200+ characters could buff level 17 characters with their top of the line Buffs.  Which in turn would imbalance PVP since you would have level 17 characters running around with lvl 200+ heal over time, str/stam, shield buffs, etc.   Which in turn would forced others to do the same thing, which eventually turned PVP into BuffVP.  Not only that but this type of game mechanics also encourages people to create buff bots.

Originally posted by forest-nl

 

Originally posted by Tinybina

What if Warhammer and Age of Conan (god forbid) both turn out to be Duds like nearly every other MMORPG in the past 2 years?....

I cannot see anything on the Horizon in the next 2 years that really strikes me as a 'can't miss' MMORPG.

I mean we have the Stargate MMO, TCOS, Aion but all of those titles will probably have a average showing.  Other then the Bioware MMO and Marvel comics MMO that will be comming out in 2-3 years the future looks horrible for this genre.    :(

 

 

And still this topic is what games  you like, many others see a bright future for other mmo's in development, and the ones you mentioned are already failors:P

 

You are a tipicial mass brainwashed player who only go for the most named or hyped games there is, more and even superior games comming soon or on market right now, so what your saying is just bull:P

But thats what troll is all about, be negative and spread rumors:P

LOL what?  About the only thing I understood from your post above was the :P.

But back to the topic, I sure hope AOC and/or WAR live up to my expectations.  I think AOC will have a crap load of depth since it somes from the company that made Anarchy Online.   WAR on the other hand looks like it will have very good combat but its the rest of the content that worry me.

After those two titles though, nothing good looks to be comming out untill maybe early 2009:( 

Maybe Huxley or Maybe TCOS, but thats about it.

What if Warhammer and Age of Conan (god forbid) both turn out to be Duds like nearly every other MMORPG in the past 2 years?....

I cannot see anything on the Horizon in the next 2 years that really strikes me as a 'can't miss' MMORPG.

I mean we have the Stargate MMO, TCOS, Aion but all of those titles will probably have a average showing.  Other then the Bioware MMO and Marvel comics MMO that will be comming out in 2-3 years the future looks horrible for this genre.    :(

Originally posted by Torak

There is Anarchy online. A game with more depth and far more developed them most games out right now.

You can't put AO on that list of F2P games since for several years in the beggining it was a P2P game.  They had to go F2P after tons of their population left due to horrible expansions that altered gameplay (Shadowlands) or just to play other titles (SWG, etc).

In response to the OP I would say P2P for me, the F2P games are just horrible IMO.  There not even 1/3 as good as most Online games.

Originally posted by JohnnyCache

  Upon my arrival, i found about a dozen hibs defending the Center Keep against about a dozen mids.  Oh, wow, thought I....this game is not dead !. 

Well I popped my head in these forums mainly because im bored and need another MMO (and I will not go back to WOW agian).. Anyways after reading that line above (which main me /rofl) its clear that this is not the one.

If  15 people makes you think a game is not "dead" then just what does?....

Originally posted by bverji

Tinybina 3 purples will get you a 75-99% bonus to your defense. The average person has at least 33% bonus to there 75%  base chance to hit , and anyone focusing on PVP or using IO's is going to have closer to 60+ percent bonus. SO popping three purples will give a person with one SO/IO acc a 5-40% base chance to hit, depending on the type of purples/acc enhancement. Against anyone slotted well more like 40-70%. this is before the addition of aim 38%, build up 15%, -defens 7-33% that stacks, Natural power bonus 5-10%, insights 25-50% per pop, TO hit buffs various. rehitting your base accuracy of 75% against a blaster that popped 3 purples isn't that big of a deal.

Which is why people often get into arguements with each other and call each other or a certain person a "Popper".

For those that want to believe this crap go right ahead but when you enter into those pvp zones and you see that Blapper comming at you and suddently start popping inspirations stay there if you want to.. Thats ofcourse if you even see them most of them will be invisible or steathed and hopping and flying all over the screen.  And when your friends decided to give chase go luck to that too since he will just bounce away basicly immune to anything you do.

You can either listen to someone who had 3 capped pvp characters or some guy who spouts numbers, its up to you. 

Originally posted by Elikal

I'll make a confession here: n 4+ years and a dozen MMOs I never made a single character max level, except my SWG Jedi - but him only because there was some bug in this Wookiee arena (if anyone recalls...)

Somehow I always stop playing my character about in the last 15-20% of levels. Always. Its something that starts to be non fun from this point on, I cant say exactly what, but it get too much grind and too less fun. It feels just too much like work and the sense of playing a "story", and adventure usually gets lost to me on the last 20% of levels.

Instead of outlevelling the character, I start a new one. Always, in all of the many MMOs I played. There always happens a deceleration that somehow takes the feeling of growth away.

Opinions??

I think you hit it right on the head though, early on leveling is somewhat fun, but when you hit the later levels it feels like more of a grind. The only MMO were it was the same for me no matter what level was Planetside.

Originally posted by bverji

Originally posted by Tinybina

Would be alot better if they added some more pvp content for those of us that actually like to do it.

Putting a global cooldown on inspirations in pvp was also be nice so Blaster can not just swallow 3 reds and 2 shot you all the while remaining invinciple for about 30 seconds because they popped 3 purples as well...

But hell I can't expect a game that had no intention of every having PVP to understand these concepts.

Anyone who thinks that popping purples makes anyone invulnerable in PVP isa very, very, very mistaken. The discrepancy between acurracy and defense is one of the most unballanced part of PVP.

Your a fool if you think your going to be able to hit someone who just popped 3 purples while the duration of the effect is still going.  A fool, who obviously has never PVPed in this game.

These guys just want to hold on to thier crutch, most likely they are the ones that come into the PVP zones with a Tray full of inspirations and leave it to go fill back up the second they run out.

Originally posted by Tabby_Cat

Originally posted by Tinybina

Would be alot better if they added some more pvp content for those of us that actually like to do it.

Putting a global cooldown on inspirations in pvp was also be nice so Blaster can not just swallow 3 reds and 2 shot you all the while remaining invinciple for about 30 seconds because they popped 3 purples as well...

But hell I can't expect a game that had no intention of every having PVP to understand these concepts.

PvP in this game is quite fun in this game if you play in a  team. Ans as far as inspirations go you have access to the same ones as everyone else does. you just need to be prepaired.

You obviously never played PVP in this game since its quite obvious you think you can prepare yourself team or not from a steathed  or invisible lvl 50 IOed out Blaster (which most of them are) and then avoided being 2 shooted by the strongest archtype in the game that not only has superjump active but Superspeed as well.

What on earth will your team be able to do once he lands those 2 shots and is also invinciple due to him being able to pop inspirations like candy instead of them being on a cooldown like Most MMO's outside kits. 

Unlike you I actually PVPed in this game ALOT attaining 400 rep on my Stalker, Mastermind, and  my DOM. Pill popping is a problem in this game and will continue to be one untill the Devs finally do wake up and understand that having a Cooldown on using inspirations will actually help PVP  out in the long run.. Instead they continue to allow lamers/kiddies/unskilled Flavor of the month archtype scrubs to pill pop and have a instant "I Win" situation.

PVP was a afterthought in this game and it shows.

Originally posted by D3mis3

It's huge over in South Korea, mainly cause its similar to Starcraft lore. Anyways, if they advertise it right before release I'm sure they'll make huge sales.

Even if what you say is true (which I doubt) the developers are foolish to basicly just ignore the North American Market  which they appear to be doing....After all its not the South Koreans that are big on Unreal Tournement (which this game basicly is)...