For the love of everything holy, it's jedi, not jedis.

Originally posted by Rydeson

Bioware's story will be dust as soon as the spoiler sites start to share info..  People that like to PvP won't give a shit about story, but they will choose path on the spoiler sites so they can be awarded the "Uber Saber of Darkness".. lol   So much for story.. Wait....  Bioware wouldn't be so stupid to reward the Sith a Uber Saber and not give anything to the Jedi's...  So the Jedi's have a quest that give them the "Almighty Saber of Holyness".......  Wait.. I thought making choices means you choose different paths.. BUT in the end everything be the same, just with different names or colors.. So I guess it does matter which path you take, ya'll end up with the same crap.. just different graphics.. LOL

First and formost it is jedi, not jedi's with a s. So you don't care for TOR, we can see and read that. Why  come into a thread and rain on others parade.

[Mod Edit] It has been said many times in the last few weeks, that once you leave your starting home world you will not have to follow any of the story if you so choose. Meaning that, you can play TOR just like any MMO. If you choose to follow the story, you can even do so solo or within a group.

Just because you follow the story, it doesn't mean that's all you can do throughout the leveling process. You will be able to go in and out of your personal story anytime you wish. Raiding, crafting, exploration and pvp will be available through out the game as well. Once at max level, you can continue to do those things or wait until new content comes out to continue your own story.

If you decide to roll another toon in a differant class, you will not have to do the same quest's that you had to do for your origional one. They said you won't ever have to do the same content form each class, so starting over will be like a whole new MMO.

[Mod Edit]

Yet again, another old and tired out complaint thrown at TOR from a SWG vet or whatever. Dude, i played SWG from launch and even though it was my first MMO, that i spent countless hrs. playing, i honestly have started to despise the whole game and people just like yourself that was or is part of that community. You come here to a forum and bitch and moan about how TOR will not be SWG2, and think somehow BioWare owes you a sandbox SW MMO. Get over yourself and grow up.

The truth is, for all the people that start negative threads about any game, usually are people that want to hear themselves talk. All one has to do, if they want to know how TOR will play out, is to do a little research and actually read. Once again i could get into specifics about the game, but at this point it seems overly redundant.

Originally posted by BioNut

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by Vrazule

I'm getting really tired of nerds who depend on game mechanics to force people to socialize and I'm really getting sick of people who think grouping is the end all, be all, social mechanic.

You people are sad and pathetic and need to grow up.

 

OK, lets look at this another way.  What is in this game that requires me to interact with you?  Is there PVP? Yes  Is there Crafting? Yes (albeit what system, no one knows)  Is there an Entertainer system?  What makes interacting with you, for the games sake, at all required?

If your a Star Wars fan and I am to, great.  We have something in common and that should be enough.  If your a MMO vet, and I am to then that might have wieght also.  We then converse about our like interests.  What if you hate Star Wars and don't care for MMO players?  You then have nothing to share with this MMO community of significate note.  But, what encourages cooperative play in this game?  I can only note one mention in helping fellow players to earn quicker "progress".

 

See the two red insertions. 

 

I'd like to add that they also mentioned there will be "raids" (though in what fashion and form, no one knows yet). So there's PvP and Raiding which actually -requires- other players, no? 

 

And that leaves out the pure social aspect of people simply getting together to play together because it is fun. Not sure why everyone gets their panties in a bunch because the Dev's opted to give you a chance to do nearly anything solo. 

 

-OPTION- being the operative word here.

Singsofdeath, do you PVP?
 

If so, great, I have no prob with that.  However, the direct market that this game is trying to appeal to does not.  They want that solo play experiance without having to be exposed to negative interaction of the PVP crowd.  This is a barrier to them ever sending you a /tell.  They want thier 3 hours a night unfettered then log to sleep for work or school.  That is the general conception of the target audiance.  Anyone that devotes themselves to improving thier character beyond finishing the final Quest is deemed Hardcore.  This is a concept that is beyond the pratical PVPer.  They don't see themselves as a niche demographic because the masses never come to boards like this and post about it.  Why make themselves exposed on 2 fronts (game and forums)?

 

I think what we have here are the frustrations of SWG vets and other jaded MMO old timers coming out on a game that is obviously not their thing. They want a sandbox game so badly that it hurts but nobody will make it. And when they do (darkfall) its not good enough for them.

Honestly, BioWare is going after the community that will make them the most money, the same people that buy their single player RPGs. This is a sound marketing strategy and with their talent they will create one hell of a game. And you people bashing it why? If they did not claim it was an MMO would  you still bash it?

They have stated that each class' story line will be twice as long as a single play through of kotor. So lets say the average playthrough of Kotor is 30 hours. Thats 60 hours per class x 8 classes = 480 hours of gameplay. Now add in PvP, raiding, socializing and crafting  you can easily have 800- infinity hours. But lets say you only get 800 hours out of it and only play 8 hours a day (which is a lot if you have a job).  800 total hours/8 hours per day = 100 days or 3 and a half months.

I would think, in a story driven MMOG, that they could have new content out for you to devour in 3 and a half months as Turbine does it with LoTRO. With the way the hero engine works its possible they could add 10 hours of gameplay for each class within that time and hell, if they make it episodic, they could realease the game with new content ready for the next 6 months like TV shows do.

 

In conclusion, I am sorry that the sandbox MMO is dead (I would like one too) but the constant whining and bitching about  "theme park" MMOs is getting really old. SW:TOR looks to be something different and I, for one, am excited that SW:TOR will be an  MMO with a lot of great story content and the OPTION to group, raid, PvP, craft.....................Wait why is this not considered an MMO again?

You're a little off on the hrs. each class will have. They have said many times that each storyline for each differant class are hundreds of hrs. At that time at the end, you can either just sit back and wait for the next big content patch that would continue your story or you could raid or pvp or do whatever all other mmo's have as end game content.

The great thing about the way Bioware is doing it is , if you decide at max level to roll another toon, like so many of us do. You will not be doing the same things that you did on your origional toon. You will not have to go and grind out the same missions over and over. The story will be differant and it will be like starting over from scratch. This to me, is the most exciting thing about TOR.

Once again some people are missing the point totally. Bioware never said this game was not a full blown MMORPG. They said that they have a system in place that would allow the player to turn off all multiplayer functions if they chose to do so.

Simple fact. If you want to play TOR by yourself, you will have that option. If you want to play the game like all other MMO's there's that option. The only part of the game that will make you follow a solo route, is your personal story flashpoints.

If we know that pvp, guilds, crafting, harvesting resources, raiding and exploration are in the game, how can some of you come to the conclusion this is only a single player game. I think Bioware is smart for bringing something for everyone to the table.

Let's take a look at a few other mmo's that cater to only one style of play. They get a small to medium size community which in itself is not bad. Bioware on the other hand is bringing this massive MMO to light and it seems won't be content with making just another run of the mill game that will cater to just the hardcore pvper's or just the pve crowd.

We can all speculate on what hasn't been released yet about the game, but from my perspective, what has been released, TOR will be a huge MMORPG that will have a diverse community that will be able to live out their SW saga as they choose too.

Originally posted by Khaunshar

And the countless threads of witless imbeciles shall commence : "Lol jedi are supposed to be powerful, normal trooper is too strong " "I picked sith because they are badass, why is that bounty hunter able to kill me? I quit !"

Trust me, in a mainstream MMO, I am not sure they ll really be able to dodge that bullet, no matter how much sense it makes.

 

As a sidenote, do we actually require balance? From all we know, there wont be serious PvP anyway, at least not something requiring balance, and you run with NPCs in solo instances, Guild Wars style, most of the time anyway. So why the need to balance classes when there isnt really much content in which they compare?

Or did I miss something and we got definite info that they will, indeed, make group/raid/pvp based content as something other than a small percentage of a game tailored to soloists?

They definitly said Grouping, PVP and Raids will be in but they never said it would be on a small level. It was more in lines that we are still working those things out. So it is a wait and see game from this point.

I still can't understand as well why some people are still so shocked about jedi/sith being a starting class. This is not a game set in the time of the movies. There are plenty of force users on both sides and it was said even though your toon will not be a known character from that time, you will feel like you are the hero in the story. This was also said of every class that will be in the game.

As for this being a solo game. This is just not all correct.They said TOR will cater to all playstyles. Yes, you will have your own main personal story in which you can solo ,or use companions as well as group, that being taken from the E3 demo. Other than that,they said this will be a MMORPG thorugh and through, with the likes, of exploration, grouping, auctions, crafting, harvesting resources and pvp. I would say that while not being involved in your story, you will play out the game just like all others.

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

I think star wars the old republic will be the first real MMORPG. Its the first MMo promising to focus on the story, and nto just trying to see how many people they can jam onto a server at one time. The hero engine is pretty impressive, and i think st:tor will show people that, so basically while i am waiting for AIon and champions online, i have faith that SW TOR will not dissapoint.

I agree however, PC is the strongest gaming rig out there, and every MMO is always years behind what the pc is capable of , so far  behind that morons actually belive consoles are the best system

 

I think you are going to be in for a shock.  SWTOR is shaping up to be the purist theme-park game ever made, heavy on the solo play.  It may be an MMO, but I don't think it's going to be much of an MMORPG.

 

What makes you believe that will shock me, i hapen to like the idea of cinimatic combat, and solo emphasis. Most of the time i only feel like playing in small groups, 2 to 3 people and only really want to do multiplayer in pvp, another solo thing, the only community interaction i really do while leveling if i can help it is sell items to otehr players.

 

Its going to online, story driven, interactive in both the combat and how the story goes for your personal character, and there are missions that can be influenced by you alone and a full party. What part of MMORPG are you missing, sounds like you just confirm the whole "Gamers have no idea what they want" THought mentioned earlier. MMOs arent twiched based, so all of them are on some track, Bioware doesnt hide the fact that it is, and i think they will do a good job when launch comes.

 

I know what Star wars is offering, ive been following it since it was announced, and all the things you put down as cons are the things i actually would enjoy experiencing.

 

I think the MMO market needs to have a split down the middle and keep the Massively Single Player games like TOR apart from the actual MMORPG's. It's clear that there is a split in the philosophy of the two types of games, so why mash them together on sites like this?  That way, the makers of the type of game you and most WoW players want can move on with the business of removing every non-quest/instance based feature out of their games (they are slowly doing this anyway with each new generation), and the real MMORPG developers can go on making 'Open Ended' living worlds where the larger community actually interacts while gaming.

The two philosophies are at least as different as an RPG is to a true MMORPG.  Why not make it official? What you are describing sounds like a single player game with co-op to me.

Excuse me, a single player game like TOR. If i was you i would do some research before labeling TOR. It was said just yesterday by Gordon Walton, that TOR would have every element that all other MMORPG's have in them. Guilds, auction houses, raiding, pvp, exploration, crafting and even harvesting. The game might not be as open world as some, but it will have it's elements of sandbox thrown in there. Even though your toon may have his/her's own personal story doesn't mean that you won't be able to go out and do other things with a group that is part of the bigger picture. I really believe that BioWare has taken the best parts from many other games, thrown in the new stuff like full voice over and story, and are polishing it to be one of the best games to ever be developed and released.

Originally posted by dark-merlin

 I was much more impressed by Darkfall's Alpha video than this cinematic hogwash.

 

I cant believe so many of you themeparkers believe "omg this game will be awesome" from a CGI movie, just boggles my mind.

 

Show me CGI as an intro and the rest (90%) ingame footage, running around, fighting, PVE whatever. That will impress me...

 

Notice I didnt say the game sucks, it will be good probably although not my flavor (FFA PVP). But i'm just amused from the praises you guys throw around "omg this is best EVA omgomgomg!!!" from watching CGI.

 

Perhaps i'm just insane, lost my edge prolly thinking that....

The gameplay footage will be shown on Wed. I think they have like 20 or 30 minutes of it. So even though i think this cinamatic was very nice, i am still wanting to see the real deal as well. In my opinion, i think we will all be very pleasantly surprised and pleased.

Originally posted by stillkillin

Originally posted by tillamook

Originally posted by stillkillin

can anyone say bioware failed? i guess i will bioware failed

tor looked boring and stupid it looked like a sci-fi world of warcraft rather then what it should be a star wars game

and it's still class based and oh yay i can hear npcs talking lame

i have a better idea bioware why don't you give us gamers what we really want with tor that being 32+ professions that can be mixed and matched an open world with lots of player crafting and pvp battlefields

oh wait i believe that is swg pre-cu the game everyone wants back

 

 We had SWG, it was good times and now it's done, most of us have moved on, now we have TOR.

You want pre-cu? Go play the F'n emu, or if you want sandbox go play Second life and stop complaing about a game you don't like. Nothing is holding you back.

 

you don't get it do you

us swg vets lost our game cuz $OE wanted to try and make wow in space we told them it would fail and it failed and now we are owed a star wars mmo game and bioware stepped up to the plate and rather then do what us real gamers want bioware is trying to do wow in space 2.0

every gamer should be demanding bioware return the pre-cu to gamers everwhere

I really just don't understand. If you love SWG pre-cu so much just go and join the EMU. I have, it is exactly what you would be looking for, even though it is not complete yet. If you truthfully loved pre-cu you can have it for free instead of wishing everyday  SOE would do a rollback and then you would have to pay to play. I can't understand why anyone would bash a game like TOR.  It will truly be a SW game that actually captures the SW spirit.

Why don't everyone just slow down. I believe on Wed they will be showing actual gameplay footage and will also introduce the smuggler class as well.

After watching the trailer a few times, i can only hope that with the release of the game it will spawn some type of Old Republic movie, either live action or done just like this. We all know that gameplay won't be like this, but damn, this made me want more Star Wars.

Well with the Agency and DC Universe coming out not only does shutting down the Matrix doesn't surprise me but i wouldn't put it past them doing the same thing to SWG. Vanguard seems like it has somewhat of a stronger community than those two had so i see them keeping that game going.

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by musicmann

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by musicmann

 So what are we all doing here?  Talking about religions?

This is a game discussion web, we talk about the good and bad, and why we join or quit a game.  Its call discussions.  Oh by the way, what are you doing here?  Talking about not talking?  Interesting.

By your same logic, why should people exchange views at all,? If you do not like some food, just leave quietly and forever hold your tongue.

My logic is more correct than most others. <blah blah blah>

The highlighted portion is illustrative of the real problem with what is going on - egos getting in the way of a constructive exchange of ideas and opinions.

I don't have a ego and i will admit that was a poor choice of words on my part.  I was trying to convey that mmo's can be discussed but when people start to cross the the line from a disusson to a down right trashing, then that is taking it to far..

Yes the OP's thread was civil. The problem is, out of that one thread, this topic has spawned 16 pages of non consrtuctive drivel that serves no purpose. The truth is, DF was not meant for this dude.. No need to shout it out loud so everyone knows that.

You either play the game and have fun or you don't. Every game has certain aspects that will cater to one type of crowd or another. It will never satisfy everyone. Coming here and discussing either a released game or a up and coming game is fine. When that turns into a personal opinion that tries to sway others form purchising or playing a game then that becomes a hidden agenda that doesn't deserve a discussion.

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by musicmann

Even though the OP post was well written and articulate, it still doesn't give a plausible reason to make a exit thread at all. Every MMO on the market can be picked apart and have their good and bad elements dissected up and down. The final verdict though stands with the indivdual player. You either are having fun or you're not, no reason to try and post and sway others from a personal opinion.

I still can't figure out why people think there's a need to bash or for that matter praise any given mmo. It's really all subjective and no matter how many may like it, there's an equal amount who can't stand it. Does that mean the one's who hate it have the right to tell the others that play and potential customers to stay away from it. A MMO will run it's course and either sink or swim, due to how the players percieve the game direction is heading all on it's own.

 

So what are we all doing here?  Talking about religions?

This is a game discussion web, we talk about the good and bad, and why we join or quit a game.  Its call discussions.  Oh by the way, what are you doing here?  Talking about not talking?  Interesting.

By your same logic, why should people exchange views at all,? If you do not like some food, just leave quietly and forever hold your tongue.

My logic is more correct than most others. Sure it is not horrible to give praise or even discuss problems within a mmo. The point i was making is that it is all subjective and when people start to cross the line and try and sway others from spending their hard earn dollars on a product, then it becomes a problem.  Who really cares if DF was not made for everyone. Most mmo's other than WOW is built to cater to a certain type of gamer. Who are you to tell anyone that the game is so horrible they shouldn't play. MMO's will run their own course and either survive or fail. I've never even played DF, and probably won't. It surely is not from what anyone has said because i wasn't lazy and did research on the actual game and found it not to interesting. 

As for your example of bad food, movie or whatever. I have never went off what other people have wrote or said. Like i mentioned, it's all subjective to the indivdual's personal taste. I'm not the type of person that needs others to lead me around and tell me what is good or bad. I'm an adult and can make that decision for myself apparently unlike yourself.

Originally posted by hoopty

Originally posted by musicmann

Even though the OP post was well written and articulate, it still doesn't give a plausible reason to make a exit thread at all. Every MMO on the market can be picked apart and have their good and bad elements dissected up and down. The final verdict though stands with the indivdual player. You either are having fun or you're not, no reason to try and post and sway others from a personal opinion.

I still can't figure out why people think there's a need to bash or for that matter praise any given mmo. It's really all subjective and no matter how many may like it, there's an equal amount who can't stand it. Does that mean the one's who hate it have the right to tell the others that play and potential customers to stay away from it. A MMO will run it's course and either sink or swim, due to how the players percieve the game direction is heading all on it's own.

 

Running around Darkfall naked because players are afraid of losing there best gear.Is not consider a game,It is not fun,It is not full loot..It is called chicken shit..The game is all pvp  nothing more and nothing less..It is a no brain game...I have better things to do in life than watching naked people running around and chasing each other.That must be real exciting for you!

This is funny. I have never even played DF and probably never will. I seen this thread yesterday and decided to chime in with a post more in line of all mmo's and not just DF.

Even though the OP post was well written and articulate, it still doesn't give a plausible reason to make a exit thread at all. Every MMO on the market can be picked apart and have their good and bad elements dissected up and down. The final verdict though stands with the indivdual player. You either are having fun or you're not, no reason to try and post and sway others from a personal opinion.

I still can't figure out why people think there's a need to bash or for that matter praise any given mmo. It's really all subjective and no matter how many may like it, there's an equal amount who can't stand it. Does that mean the one's who hate it have the right to tell the others that play and potential customers to stay away from it. A MMO will run it's course and either sink or swim, due to how the players percieve the game direction is heading all on it's own.

I still for the life of me still can't figure out why some of SWG vets want to trash on a new SW mmo that anyone hardly knows anything about, other than a few classes and planets. To be honest, i can't see why anyone that played SWG pre-cu is still bitching and moaning about how SOE changed the game. If you want to still play SWG PRE-CU you can surely find the avenue to get you there, and for free i might add. You also will be able to play the new MMO when it get's released. To me that is a win/win situation.

Basically this thread is full of fail and redundant.

Originally posted by stillkillin

if $OE brings back the pre-cu tor is done for

i don't see ppl playing a lame class based game i see everyone going to the game that offers 32+ mix and match professions with more to do

Why all the hate? You can easily play SWG pre-cu for free now as well as play TOR when it get's released. Honestly it will be the best of both worlds.