I played it and it was... dreadful. Really, really dreadful. No other word comes to mind, really.^^

The graphics and animations look and feel as if they were taken from an asian console game from around 1985. The tutorial was so unbelievable braindead that I wonder if it has done any lasting damage (yes, feel free to assure me of that^^ ).

All in all: it read like a great game with permadeath and all that. In reality it turned out to be something I will remember for its crappiness.

For heavens sake no f2p for THAT game... the elder scrolls games have all lived by their flair and the (in my opinion) unreached immersion factor - having "You cannot enter this cave. Get the 'All caves in Morrowind(tm) bundle TODAY!" popping up at every corner (or ANY corner, at that) would really kill the game for me.

Nah. Monthly fee is cool for me.

I think it's kind of relativistic to say of ALL of us Eveplayers that we do to him what he did to that tendencially suicidal guy. Of course there are some freaks who are no better than he is, but I think equalling the majority of players who are just sick of that guy with those [mod edit] is quite wrong and it does not make his behavior in any way better - which is implied by the "well he did that but don't we ALL do that to him?"-argument.

If he's in the center of a shitstorm right now, well... I think he caused it. And I sure do hope I get spared of his self-indulgence now.

utterly /signed.

same over here, really.

Review vs. preview: I think your previews are quite good. But to set them apart from the reviews you will need something "extra" on the review side of things, something that keeps readers clicking on that link even if the game is out for a month or more.
So, you have to improve the accuracy of your ratings, especially in reviews. You can do that by having more than one rater. It would cost more, but if you took 3 or more reviewers, each playing for at least 7-10 days for a substantial amount of time, you may sum up their scores to get a more accurate review. Of course it would take more time and manpower to do this, but you could split up the article among the raters. There are some ways to improve interrater-accordance, mail me if you want to know more.

Scoring system: nothing wrong with 1-10. Marginal differences will be expressed no matter if they're called 5.6 and 5.7 ot C and C+. Its just another level of differentiation. The real problem here is one of Information loss. If you aggregate 5 or 6 scores (graphics, sound, gameplay etc.), you will not be able to see if it was sound or gameplay that are good or bad. So: Either you give the game a general score, which may be based on factors irrelevant to some gamers, or you split the whole thing up into facets and generate different listings (Top ten in gameplay, top ten in sound, top ten in Graphics etc.).
Maybe it would be kind of an alternative to generate such lists and to present them in a row with the list for general score.

Just my 2ct, cheers

Originally posted by garry

Good article and responses. What is most amazing to me is the 'harsh penalties' crowd have a peculiar attitude toward this subject. Harsh death penalties are already in virtually any MMO out there! Got killed - then divest your 'stuff' and 'will' it to anyone you want (just like in real life) and then delete the character. Anyone who wants a harsh penalty can do this anytime they die (to the delight of their 'heirs') and thats that. Harsh death penalty, in game, all the time for those who want it. You can even 'loot' your own character by discarding all money and equipment and starting again with whatever you have banked away. The full range of death penalties is already in most all MMOs.

 

So what is the problem. Hardcore death penalty supporters want not just the challenge for themselves, that is already there. They want everyone else to face the same or get out and play something else. My way or the Highway mentality. As Damion pointed out, in a way, STOR is not a 'niche' game for the hardcore. They can't make enough money from those players to keep it going. I am a PvE centric player (as the majority of MMO players tend to be) and I am looking forward to STOR to join the other two games I play, and pay for. Bioware has to decide whether to satisfy enough of us to support the game's very existance or the smaller group who want to force their views on everyone. Especially since what the lesser group wants is already in the game.

 

LET ME REPEAT!  Perma-death, gear loss etc...is already in the game. Use it if you want it, don't if you don't want it. An option! How wonderful is that. Not satisfactory? Then suggest you check your motives, not mine, since you want no choice for me and I support your ability to choose. QED

I am sorry but your argument is logically invalid. If you *opt* to give away your Items and delete your character, then it's not a penalty. It's a decision you can always ignore, which is why it does not get exciting. If somebody breaks into your house with a gun and tries to kill you, it'll scare you/create (very much) tension. If you have a gun in your closet which is up to you to use if you want to, it will not induce similar feelings.

-> It is an act of free will to wipe yourself out, it's a penalty if somebody else wipes you out. Fear of beeing wiped out creates tension, so: no, permadeath is NOT integrated in most MMO's.

Yours truly,

El Gnomig.

I don't like that... If I remember correctly, Funcoms numbers were not the best last year, I wonder if that cooperation was due to lack of funding. Anyhow: involving a big player like EA will probably dampen the innovation-factor quite a bit. Large companys invest in the things that "work well" - and for MMO's that's WoW-esque. Better to release TSW together with EA then not at all, but I'm a bit sceptical.

Just my 2ct. Cheers!

Good article, exactly my opinion.

All of your arguments werre valid, though they miss the point that annoys me most regarding f2p-MMO's... a horrbile community. If you let everybody play for free you get tons of imbeciles ruining everybodys day... because they do not have to fear the almighty banhammer.

In short:

A) If you seriously troll, flame and get banned in a p2p MMO you've just thrown some money out of the window.

B) If you do so in an f2p model you haven't lost anything, you get another (free) account and reroll "Phuxurmotha" who continues to flame and troll.

Take a look at GW - I used to see all kinds of verbal garbage flooding my screen when you got to a hub - not much better when you grouped. Talking about immersion, eh?

So, even though you have very good theoretical arguments, the practical argument of bad community beats them in my book. Still a nice article though, very informative.

Cheers

HOLY SHIT!. NO!

Looks like they are trying to get the "Failure of the Millennium"-Award... And they'll get it with MT.

HOW STUPID CAN ONE COMPANY BE?!

If they go MT I'm out. Would be an a really awesome fail just made for another column at mmorpg.com "the biggest preventable fails in MMO history"

Awww they can't be THAT stupid...

...I hope.

If it's RMT I will not buy or play it. 

Just my 2ct for today.

...well maybe more like 1ct.

A good article! (as opposed to Danas yesterday i might add...)

I would like to throw in an idea: the *complete* ignore

What do I mean by that? Well...

It really isn't enough to have an unlimited ignore - people can still grieve you by hopping around etc. So... make them disappear. That's right, make them vanish COMPLETELY from my game. Better still: let me do that per hotkey rather than havin to type in a line.

In Addition to that: Make a /completeignore for whole friends and even whole guilds. If my friend/matey decides he sees someone breaking his/her immersion... let me just take over his list so i don't have to put up with that someone myself...

my 2 ct for today.

Originally posted by ericbelser

I have to say that was an exceptionally misinformed and unenlightened article.

I prefer to play on "RP" servers, not because of any real expectation of roleplaying - nor to "annoy" roleplayers. I play on them because they tend to have better enforced social guide lines on chat, naming conventions and behavior.

It's not all about bad acting lessons, shakespearian accents or drama queens. It's about respecting the intended uses of chat channels and tiny little things like not being allowed to deliberately break the immersion of someone elses playing time. I couldn't care less what you say or how you say it in an OOC channel, guild chat or a private convo; because I can choose to not be listening to them. However, I find having to listen to some moron named N33D5D0P3 talk about Michel Jackson in zone wide general chat to be really annoying.

So, no they aren't perfect and they really aren't about rigidly enforced "roleplaying"...but I find RP servers to be a better social environment than most MMO servers, simply because they actually allow for the enforcement of some basic rules of conduct and consideration.

This. Exactly my point.

...especially the part about "exceptionally misinformed and unenlightened, Dana.

Originally posted by Rydeson

     I've read and watched many interviews and post by Bioware, and this game is nothing more then KOTOR 3 + internet..  The storyline choice bologna mixed in with online interaction makes things impossible, or illogical..  I"ve read and heard how one starting quest is "killing the captain" or not to kill him, and how those type of choices determine your character as you progress thru what I call a single player RPG.. Let me give you a simple example..  I killed the captain, however my friend did not early on in the game.. I get to a point where a relative or friend of the captain seeks REVENGE upon me.. Does this mean my friend is unable to help me?  Afterall, he's friendly with the capt's friends and family.. whereas I'm hated..  If my friend helps me in the fight, he then should ALSO become hated by the friends and family as well..  SO MUCH about making choices early on?  OR will my confrontation with the family be instanced where my friend cant' come with me.. OR.. even worse.. my friend does help me, yet takes NO faction hit in killing the capt's friend or family..  Meaning that Bioware conviently IGNORES the storyline in sake of grouping with no recource..  Interesting ..

     Personally, I see this is nothing more then RENTING KoTOR 3 monthly to play multiple toons with a lil online mmo tossed in to keep you guessing if it's a mmo or not.. However I think I might re-label it as SWG 2.. Another Star Wars blunder where the game doesn't meet expectations of what the market wants..  I'm still trying to figure out how a person that was LEAD screw up at SOE-Austin (aka SWG)  got the Co-GM spot at Bioware.. I guess it's all about the almighty dollar.. Should we make a KoTOR 3 and charge $59.95 that can be played on the PC, Xbox and PS3?  or should we make the game a lil bigger, add in some mmo stuff (but not much) and charge the same $59.95 plus $14.95 a MONTH every month after.. hmmmmm Lets go with the extended money game.. LOL I suspect this game fails within 2 years after release, but who cares..

 

 

 I HOPE you are wrong, but then again I THINK you are right.

I completely agree with most of what is said in the article but not with the conclusion

[Quote]

There is hope, though. As much as I’d like to take credit for all this, it’s clear many others have come to this conclusion sooner (and over the course of a lot less columns). The best looking games at E3 took this to heart. Bioware’s Star Wars: The Old Republic looks a heck of a lot like a cooperative single-player RPG. The narrative seems, at a glance, to be a large part of the focus. While other exciting games like All Points Bulletin and Global Agenda are much more focused on character parity and unlockable content.

[/Quote]

It is paradox that one should seek the core mechanics single player RPGs as an improvement to the MMORPG, because these mechanics are specialized to some extend on beeing... single player. 

When people want to buy an MMO, the usually do not want a single player game with a little global chat box.  Story is important, and immersion ist, too - but if you take on the Guild Wars-type of instanced storytelling, then you are bound to fail. GW did not live of the story, but of PvP, and no matter how good the story may turn out to be... if you took the same story into an single player game, it would still work better - because the expectation towards an MMO are quite different from that of an single player game.

Basically we are speaking immersion ( = instancing content to create a good storyline) vs. interaction here, and if people buy an MMO they are seeking some form of interaction (may it be socializing or of competetive nature), as opposed to someone buying an offline game.

Finding an satisfying way to combine interaction and immersion ( = "storytelling as a 4th pillar") is the real problem MMO's face today... and i do not believe instancing cn be a valid tool to achieve it. The only i can think of is the use of GM's to run live events, but that is way too expensive to do in a bigger MMO

I am waiting for SW:TOR as much as the next guy and i will buy it and play it, but unless Bioware's got an ace up it's sleeve i think they will fail on the long run.

Erm. Just my 2ct for today.

I solo a lot and I've tried

...the shaman - funnyand levels ok until 20, but then your DPS goes doooown und you become a fullgrown healer. So not the best PvE-solo-class around. Scenarios tend to be fun and give heavy renown.

...the Black Orc - Tank. Lots of fun, not very complicated, solos ok but at some point over 20 your dmg just makes levelling kind of slow.

...Marauder - does a lot of dmg, levels good but was not my style

...Squigherder - is pretty ok for PvE, levels ok even solo.

...Magus - my choice right now, levels like Hell when demonspecced and pvpwise very good. Not the class for everyone but I like it

Hope that helped.

A failure? It's got 400.000 Subscribers the day it hit the shelves ...

I don't play it either but the fact that you do not like it, OP, does not make it a failure...

preace.

Yeah... agreed... since most game mechanics will be the same, lokks are very similar with polished up graphics... I wonder when WoW will overhaul it's graphic engine the way EVE did and AO will.

A fight between WoW and WAR would be interesting to watch since both "teams" will be motivated to geive their best to get to the paying customer... but i think WAR will have a hard time challenging the 11.000.000-titan World of Warcraft.

Sadly. A darker design would have been my favourite too.

Well to be honest i just read this thread out of boredom, but

"Now relax and enjoy life."

does seem a bit arrogant in face of somebody who just apologized honestly. Just my 2 cents for today, do not bother answering i will not be there to read it (that's not meant mean but as i said i read this out of boredom)

Peace Dudes.