Originally posted by benseine

Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

Originally posted by benseine

Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

Originally posted by benseine
Not being able to remove creditcard details from an account is the perfect way to prevent account selling. Wich has been against the rules in online gaming forever. Ever thought about that????? If I'm correct you can cancel your subscription. But you can't remove your creditcard details. I think Snail Games is onto something here. No more powerlvling for accountselling anymore. Don't know why they screwed you out of your ingame money and stuff. Maybe you broke more rules then you think ;)

Not removing credit card details when requested can lead to nice big sanctions including losing the ability to accept major credit cards as the cc companies will simply deny service to Snail games. Plus lawsuits, which are even more fun. Ever thought about that? Of course you haven't.

 

 

They why are more companies doing it these days? They are all frauds or they all never thought about law suits? ;)

Name one American mmo company that doesn't allow you to remove your cc details.

Edit: By the way, "Those other guys do it!!" is not a valid defense in court. Just because noone has been hit yet doesn't mean they can't or  won't be.

American? You fool, the world is bigger then the USA... Big lawsuits might be normal in America. The rest of the world calls it insanity.

Originally posted by Zorgo

Originally posted by benseine
Not being able to remove creditcard details from an account is the perfect way to prevent account selling. Wich has been against the rules in online gaming forever. Ever thought about that????? If I'm correct you can cancel your subscription. But you can't remove your creditcard details. I think Snail Games is onto something here. No more powerlvling for accountselling anymore. Don't know why they screwed you out of your ingame money and stuff. Maybe you broke more rules then you think ;)

Really? 

Your argument is that this seems honorable and  Snail should be praised for its ingenuity? 

You'll have to try harder to convince me that a foreign company refusing to remove cc information is good for the consumer.

 

 

Sites that sell powerlvling? Ppl that use it aren't cheaters in your opinion? It is in my book so they have my support. Even if it is just to reduce the annoying spam about it in globsl chat.

This makes no sense. Are you implying:

' there are powerlvling companies which support cheaters, this therefore proves Snail 'holding' your cc number is honorable'

I said try harder, I'm not sure you are trying at all.

Originally posted by benseine
Not being able to remove creditcard details from an account is the perfect way to prevent account selling. Wich has been against the rules in online gaming forever. Ever thought about that????? If I'm correct you can cancel your subscription. But you can't remove your creditcard details. I think Snail Games is onto something here. No more powerlvling for accountselling anymore. Don't know why they screwed you out of your ingame money and stuff. Maybe you broke more rules then you think ;)

Really? 

Your argument is that this seems honorable and  Snail should be praised for its ingenuity? 

You'll have to try harder to convince me that a foreign company refusing to remove cc information is good for the consumer.

Originally posted by Nitth

 

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Originally posted by Zorgo

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Originally posted by danwest58

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P2P is only having a problem because games are coping an pasting WoW designs and are not worth $15 a month.  Add to that there are what 48+ MMOs so its a competition of crap vs crap so who is going to spend their money when nothing is worth it right now?   If we continue down this path what will happen is the MMO industry will shrink, fewer publishers will be willing to take a risk there for fewer MMOS will be out again.  That will bring back the P2P system because all of these people that are no MMO players will be gone thank god.  

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I don't disagree, but I don't think it is that simple.

 

If a company concluded that they could net more profit from f2p as opposed to a sub, then they will go that route no matter the design. 

If they can determine players will pay 15 dollars a month regularly under a sub plan, but those same players will average greater than 15 dollars a month on a f2p model, guess what they would choose, wow-clone or not? 

Look at a 5 month comparison:

15 + 15 + 15 + 15 + 15 = 75$

0 + 15 (I need another char slot) + 5 + 20 (man i need that mount)  + 50 (xmas time! thx for the gift certificates)  = 90$

Voila! F2P model accepted, wow clone or not.

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And thats what people don't understand: F2p is worse for the consumer.

Again, I don't disagree, but don't think it is that simple either....

I have a friend who bought a full size pick-up which gets 11 mpg. My car gets 21 mpg. Every time he goes to the gas pump he pays significantly more than I do. Yet, he is happy with the product and satisfied in paying more.

Needless to say, I would not be. 

If the customer is satisfied with paying more  - who's to say it is wrong?

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Yalexy

CC is fine aslong as it can be countered.

Look at EvE Online where CC works perfectly fine. On the one hand not everyone can bring CC to the field, but only specialized ships can do this effectively. On the other hand there's counters to every CC, which basically every ship can fit.

The same would be possible in a MMO like WoW, when you put the CC abilities into a seperate talent-tree into the top of the tree, and have the DPS of this tree drastically reduced on the same time. This way you would have a CC-role, that can't really do much more than that.
However, CC should never disable a target to a 100%, e.g. the stun or the root needs to go. Slowing is a fine example for a good working CC for example, or debuffing armor, range or whatever. And ofc, there needs to be counterspells, to buff yourself against CC or to remove them once applied.

Most developers are pretty much clueless to come up with a working CC-system however, and aslong as it's not balanced like in EvE, aslong CC isn't really any good in a game, but only frustrating.

 So CC is fine as long as you have a way to counter it and not really be affected by it all except enough so you can say you support CC. 

So can I get a button to simply push so I don't take damage for a while?

First...that button is called "Divine Barrier" - or a thousand different other powers/spells across multiple classes throughout time. 

Second, read my post above as a way to prevent the consequences you fear.

Originally posted by danwest58

 

P2P is only having a problem because games are coping an pasting WoW designs and are not worth $15 a month.  Add to that there are what 48+ MMOs so its a competition of crap vs crap so who is going to spend their money when nothing is worth it right now?   If we continue down this path what will happen is the MMO industry will shrink, fewer publishers will be willing to take a risk there for fewer MMOS will be out again.  That will bring back the P2P system because all of these people that are no MMO players will be gone thank god.  

I don't disagree, but I don't think it is that simple.

If a company concluded that they could net more profit from f2p as opposed to a sub, then they will go that route no matter the design. 

If they can determine players will pay 15 dollars a month regularly under a sub plan, but those same players will average greater than 15 dollars a month on a f2p model, guess what they would choose, wow-clone or not? 

Look at a 5 month comparison:

15 + 15 + 15 + 15 + 15 = 75$

0 + 15 (I need another char slot) + 5 + 20 (man i need that mount)  + 50 (xmas time! thx for the gift certificates)  = 90$

Voila! F2P model accepted, wow clone or not.

Originally posted by Wicoa
This will shake up the industry a fair bit!

How so? 

AoC, LotRO, CO, DCUO, EQ2, EQ, VG, SWtOR, Tera, etc.

Seems like the industry has already been shaken like a snow globe and rift is just one of the last flakes to settle.

Originally posted by BahamutKaiser
Depends on how you view it really. What is taunting and aggro control if not CC? And both tank and healer fit into a broader category of support, so there's really only 2 roles DPS and support, or offense and defense.

I'm not gonna repeat the solution today, we can talk about it all day, its up to developers and gamers to realize or overlook it.

This is like a religious awakening for me. 

There is no trinity - only offense and defense.

Brilliant.

+2

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by waynejr2

Plus there are many who hate CC when it happens to them.

That's a big reason why it disappeared. Theonly players that like Mezz/Stun/Root are the ones that aren't on the receiving end. Creating it as a PvE only skill would just force the devs to deal with constant pestering to add it to PvP (the place where people hated it most) so it makes more sense in most cases to leave it out and not deal with the hassle.

I would like to see devs bring CC back, but have it much like UO and EVE, where they can be reasonably countered by a prepared player. Without a counter, it's simply an annoyance to most players.

What if.......

non-cc class roles would earn skill points through pvp which could be placed in 'counter-cc' abilities? 

The more you pvp, the more resilient to cc you can become. You could focus on resists or powers which 'un-cc' you or reduce effectiveness (i.e. you are snared, but barely and as you gain skill you may be able to resist entirely.

However, to keep the cc viable at the top end, (everyone is maxed out their anti-cc), the cc classes also gain skills through pvp. 

With the end result that a maxed cc role could dominate those not maxed to varying degrees, but when matched against a role who is maxed out anti-cc, the battle boils down to the actual skill of the player. Meaning knowing your timing and the right cc or anti-cc power to use at the exact right time.

-or- 

we could say it is just an idea viable in a pve game

Originally posted by Quirhid

I wouldn't like the arcaic combat system a dedicated CC class implies: the cursed holy trinity. And grinding each of the roles for a class is just more grind - nothing to do with replay value.

Well....obviously this would be a concept for those who haven't taken up arms against divided roles. 

As for grinding each role.....well I think that is a matter of design. If you create multiple paths in a non-linear fashion, I see it as leveling a new role through new content. So in my mind, that is replayability.

I'm certain  it could be poorly designed into a linear grind fest where you repeat the same content 4 times - however, since this an imaginary concept, I don't think we need to assume the worst.

Just out of curiosity - have you never had fun in a game with the trinity?

And as for archaic, are you also on a crusade against chess? with their archaic class roles with limited functions? Would you recommend chess change it so every piece was a queen? Just because something is old, doesn't mean it is broken. In fact, sometimes it means the rules have stood the test of time.

So EQ had 4 roles necessary for groups: tank, healer, dps, cc. My theory is that this was reduced to the trinity to 'fix' the grouping problem EQ had - meaning it was more difficult to find 4 roles than 3, thus, taking 25%ish longer to form groups.

Yet as is often discussed, there are consequences to being able to form groups faster. One, it still isn't fast enough for some. Two, many find it more predictable and formulaic combat. There are even those that argue it isn't 'grounded' in reality, i.e. in reality, why wouldn't you smack down the cloth wearing magical power house before hitting the indistructable wall? 

The list goes on.....

So the question is, in today's climate of mmo's, would it be possible to re-introduce cc as a necessary role? Is there a way to combat the greater difficulty in finding groups?

Here is my idea to reintroduce cc into the mix.

Every class has 4 specs for each of the roles: tank, healer, dps, cc.

But...... you have to level each of the roles separately. You may be a lvl 50 tank but a lvl 20 healer and 17 dps....etc.

I feel it may combat several issues actually.

Replayability.

Keeping newbie zones more populated. 

Adding complexity to combat.

If someone is looking for a role - yes you can fill it (at max all) while giving you options - you can play the same toon at a variety of levels - do I want to play in my 20s or my 40s or maybe I'll check who is lfm....

Consequences I see potentially:

how can a warrior be a healer? i.e. classes would be limited to something non-traditional. 

What would be the pros and cons of this idea? could it be fleshed out?

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by Rusque

So in this thread: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/384446/Proof-of-sandbox-popularity.html

500k subscribers is amazing and proves how popular sandboxes are because EVE is the bestest game evar!

 

But in this thread 500k is tiny and inconsequential.

 

Look SWTOR sucks and is a bad game. And so is EVE. Both are sucky. But the way people spin sub numbers as justification that their preferred gaming style is superior is hilarious. 500k is a good sizable population for any MMO. Now let's all hold hands and sing kumbaya.

 

Bingo.

Hypocrisy at its best ofcourse.

Actually SWTOR does not have 500K subs, it has/had just under 500K subs at the time of the conference call

How much is "just under"? I could see them calling 300K "just under"

Very good illustration on missing the entire point.

All dps?

-or-

All hybrid healer/tank/dps?

And.....because GW2 doesn't have healers.....why does that mean they have been 'removed'?

Seems to me NW has a healer. Looks like they haven't gone anywhere.

Has your 30 seconds ended yet?

Originally posted by birdycephon
Your poll is kinda fubar. Paper or plastic? Yes.

I'm a little sad it took 8 posters before someone actually read it and noticed it made no sense. Shame on you Quizzical.

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by VastoHorde

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by VastoHorde
 Eve Online does not have close to 500K subs.

Oh yes they do.

http://www.ccpgames.com/en/public-relations/press-releases/article/74405/eve-online-surpasses-500-000-subscribers-worldwide

 

 

Then its not #2 behind WoW. I was talking about western subs because I know it did not have over 500K over here. If we are talking about World Wide sub then games like Aion, Blade and Soul, Lineage 1 and Lineage 2 have subs in the millions. 500K world wide is nonthing.

It is still ahead of SWTOR.

Or you could say......

SWTOR is one of the most popular mmo's, close to EVE in subscribers and well over a million F2P accounts. Most mmo's would kill for that success.

Y'know, if you want to look at the glass as half full. I do believe the other half is beyond empty.

Just keep in mind that the only 'proof' here will be:

what active posters on mmorpg prefer (and only if they came across this thread). 

This isn't a random enough sample or comprehensive enough with tight enough controls to definitively 'prove' anything.

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by Zorgo

why so excited?

Because it hasn't released. 

As with all games, the excitement will fall precipitously once the game is released and the features don't work at all like you dreamed they would.

We dream of perfection. We live with flaws.

The game is released.

So this thread is about all the people who are so excited about currently playing the game or is this thread about all of the people who haven't played it, excited about the NA release?

why so excited?

Because it hasn't released. 

As with all games, the excitement will fall precipitously once the game is released and the features don't work at all like you dreamed they would.

We dream of perfection. We live with flaws.