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When was the last time you played AoC? Do you know AoC has had a complete DX10 re-work that has virtually all advanced graphics techniques and things such as grass physics, godrays and blowing wind in trees etc? Also, the new expansion zones are quite massive. You can set the clip plane to 3500 meters. Yes, that's 3.5 kilometers, I've never seen an MMORPG that you could see so far in the distance. Now I am not hyping up AoC as I think some design elemts are stupid such as zoning, but just to prove a point that Tera's graphics are nothing special. |
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Originally posted by stayontarget
Let's take a look at this photo of a few Tera characters in a city:
A running player with a sword on his back that's so big it's dragging the ground and that also goes about three feet over his head. Not to mention the weapons get even larger as they are held and swung for combat. Oh, and don't forget about that cuddly bear looking NPC that has an Axe on his back thats not one, not two, but three times the height of it's character! Ya, no stupid overboard graphics here lol.
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I see nothing impressive about those screenshots posted. Granted, they aren't bad, but certainly nothing to write home about. Relatively simple textures on characters, mobs and terrain like the rocks and trees in the background. Nothing of high detail. Virtually nothing showing specular lighting, godrays, screen space ambient occlusion, parralax mapping or any advanced graphics for that matter. Remember, the game is based off of the Unreal 3 engine which has been powering tons of games since 2007. So how magicallly this over 3 year old graphics engine is making graphics so far above current and future MMROPG's is just fanboi'ism at it's best. AoC is widely known to have among the best of current MMORPG graphics and from a technical standpoint look superior to anything that can be made with the Unreal 3 engine. Example:
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Originally posted by naraku209 Lol, I think he needs to look up what the word fact means. |
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Originally posted by Mannish I've watched all of the HD movies in regard to Tera. I would put the graphical quality as mainstream at best. Everything is bright, virtually no use of shadows, no very detailed textures and no super far view distance. You do realize that Tera uses the generic Unreal 3 engine that has been out for years and has powered tons of games don't you? Not only is it not the best looking of MMORPG's coming out, it's not even up to par graphics wise with a current game such as Age of Conan that has it's own highly detailed in house graphics. |
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Final Fantasy is just a PvE game, so that isn't even in the realm of possibilities for me. Tera looks just like an aim to fight version of Aion. I am not sold on the aim to shoot/fight game design method over the traditional click to target. In large fights, you lose a lot of situational awareness having to manually aim and fight over being able to click on individual targets. Not to mention Asian games are traditionally about grind and not depth and content. Look at Aion, that game was terrible. I also cannot stand the art design of these Asian games. Little 70 pound warrior girls wielding 20-foot long swords that appear to weight 300 pounds. Characters and MOBS that make giggling sounds. Rift is my favorite of the bunch, but I think they could also screw this one up. MMORPG's should be about depth, tons of content and exploration, group difficulty. Not about over the top graphics and art styles, shallow mind-numbing 5-year old themepark gameplay and grinding. |
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I think it might have similar issues that Aion did. I don't think an MMORPG designed in Asia has ever done well in the West. Aion was just terrible. I do like that Tera will have PvP, but the graphics already seem dated and the WoW'ish cartoon style is so rediculously over-done. The largest problem for me is the silly art style. You see a melee character with a sword on his back. He equips the sword in his hands, and now the sword is 20 feet long and three times the size of the character. The Asian art style of a 70 pound tiny little warrior girl swinging around a 20-foot long 300 pound sword is completely retarded. I mean sure this is fantasy and you can exagerate some, but there has to be a limit somewhere before things become stupid. |
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Originally posted by Nebless
Thanks, some good answers there. I do have a top-line rig, I was playing the trial on max settings under dx10 at 2560x1600 resolution and it was beautiful and smooth. I am definitely in favor of a more hard-core PvP game. You say there is no level restrictions to PvP - so say a lvl 80 can fight like 5 lvl 20's etc?-, no zone restrictions? If I read you right, when you kill someone in PvP it's just for the enjoyment, you don't get any coin or items or anything. What about exp, is it a decent amount when you kill someone? Could you level ooff pvp-ing? I noticed those quest movies are pretty annoying. In the trial during a movie a npc attacked me and I couldnt get out of the damn movie. Any way to disable the movies and still do the quests? I could see people camping quest mobs just to kill people watching the quest movies. In PvP, you said you can instantly be attacked at loading screen. Does this put you in a death-loop if the pperson keeps killing you and the only way out is to quit the client? In PvP are spells/arrows line oof site? As in, if you walk behind a wall can you still cast/shoot at players? Any "tracking" of other players, such as on a Ranger class? One last questions: since you say high levels can just crush low levels and the servers are already mature, can you level and gear a toon on the PvE server and then transfer to the PvP server? Since I am sure there aren't many low levels to level up with, might make it easier to get to end state PvP instead of just getting slaughtered by high-levels as you progress. |
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Started the free trial and joined one of the PvP servers. Although, I cannot post in the official forums. What type of PvP is in AoC on a PvP server? Is it full world PvP? Are there any safe zones? Is there any level restrictions to attacking other players? Is there PvP looting? When you die PvP do you leave anything behind? What kind of repercussion is there for dying? Can you bind camp? Spawn zerg/rush? Is there factions/team based PvP or is it FFA? General questions: are there zones? Instances? I've already run into invisible barries which are lame. What do you think are the good things about Conan PvP? The bad? |
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Originally posted by Chessack
Nonsense. PvP has been an integral part of most MMORPG's from the beginning. There is a huge difference between MMORPG's and first person shooters. I do play both. In a FPS, you join in, kill people and leave, there is nothing persistant about it. In a MMORPG, it's about a 24/7 world and character building. Saying a PvP MMORPG fan should just go play a FPS is like telling a strategy guy to go play a flight simulator. They have nothing to do with each other. |
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Originally posted by Hyanmen
When talking about time constraints, all good software takes years and years to develope. I believe such a game could be financially viable. By this I mean a "decent" profit. You see though, game companies aren't in it for great games and decent profit. They are in it for massive profit by shoving many titles out there as quickly as possible. Let's take WoW for example. They maybe had what, 50 people design WoW? They make massive profits with their 10 million subscribers. They could easily make such a game as outlined in my original post. But why would they? I am sure they are working on another title of limited content spread over hundreds of servers with a small staff. This equals massive profits and the cycle continues.
I do like the thoughts in this thread, keep them coming! |
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I agree, having open world PvP servers and PvE servers works pretty good. It worked quite well in EQ. 90% of the people could enjoy their NPC fights and the last 10% of us bastards could have an extremely good time fiighting each other. |
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I agree, 2-faction system is fail. |
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I am posting my thoughts on the ideal fantasy MMORPG for myself just for fun. I am not positive such an MMORPG would even be technically possible. The budget would also be staggering to create such a game and the profit margin against a game like WoW would be relatively small in comparison.
1. Single Shard - Every single player plays on a single game server ala EvE Online. Massive server farm far beyond what is deployed in current games with a huge internet backbone connection. Massive technical challenge and expensive to hold hundreds of thousands of concurrent players.
2. No Zones, No Instances - You could move from the starting newb area to the deepest furthest high level dungeon without a single break in game play.
3. Content, Content, Content - A world so large that hundreds of thousands of people can play with plenty of room would require content creation on a scale an order of magnitude above what has been seen. Games like WoW have relatively small worlds and can get away with limited content because players are split up between god knows how many servers. On my scale, I am talking about hundreds and hundreds of employees working just on creating content. No two areas are the same, tens of thousands of quests, hundreds of massive dungeons.
4. Dynamic World - If you kill the last massive boss of a dungeon, he stays dead. Kind of like the Sleeper concept in EQ1. The dungeon remains, maybe another boss takes his spot, or a ghost of the boss replaces it. Never the same enemy, over and over and over like current MMORPG's. Maybe an algorithm of NPC components that spawns different bosses with different attributes and fighting styles and different models but never the same twice.
5. Player Built Cities - Based on the guild/clan concept ala Shadowbane. Cities can be built pretty much anywhere. Cities can be built to facilitate defense, offence, trade, storage, etc. There would also be massive studio produced permanent cities all over the world.
6. Siege Warfare - Of course if player cities can be built, they must be able to be taken down for strategic reasons.
7. Limiting the Zerg - How do you control and prevent hundreds of thousands of players from converging on one point, crashing the server and bringing everyone's client to a halt? A dynamic movement and life force based limiter with associated in-game map. Say a city of 200 well dug-in players in a city are being besieged by 300 players. The 300 players call in their friend clan of another 300 players, etc. The zerg in motion. One of the huge problems with Eve Online. If you can't beat them, overwhelm them. Create some sort of storyline that limits the total amount of "life-force" supportable in one area so things do not get out of hand. As you approach such an area from a distance with too many players, you start to move slower. Your health and mana start to decrease. This continues until there is absolutely no point trying to go near where there are too many players currently.
So how do you prevent players from just zerging an area first, staying there and keeping the area full to just deny others access? When an area first reaches a "quota" limit, a timer starts. After a certain period of time or death, the original players suffer the effects of the outsiders trying to get in. This keeps a possible rotation in play. People cannot be resurrected near such areas that are affected by the quote and large population.
8. Crafting System in which Unique Items can be Produced - Give the players the tools to create unique items and sign their items for sale. No more 100 pieces of wood + 100 rolls of yarn = item 101 everytime for all crafters. Items with enough skill can literally be created out of nowhere based off algorithms/combinations and dynamically be populated into the database. These items can be protected in such a way that if others do not know the combination or skill to produce said items, they remain the original creators indefinitely. Essentially invention. This would also be a huge content resource hog.
9. Dynamic Items with Finite Life - You just got that single Sword of Truth off that single Dragon boss that you will never see again? Guess what, that item is completely unique and there will never be another. You shall hence forward be known as: Lothar; the carrier of the Sword of a Thousand Truths. Oh by the way, as you use the item it takes damage and can be repaired. Eventually though, after quite some use and many times repaired, it will falter (Lifespan depending on just how hard it was to acquire). This prevents stagnation, templates, keeps interest high and the world dynamic. Another feature requiring huge creation content resources.
10. Open World PvP - Not a single safe-zone, instance, arena, battleground. There would be relatively safe areas such as your races starting city with high-level NPC guards and such. Even some outposts and definitely your guilds player created cities would be relatively safe. But if your opponent was indeed cunning enough or powerful enough to either fight or sneak his way into the heart of your city and kill you at the bank (quite difficult), that is entirely within the realm of possibilities. There would be penalties to griefing and a system in place to prevent such things as bind camping and low-level area slaughtering. A faction system would also be in place based off of the races/groups you would be fighting and killing.
11. Faction System - Similar to EQ1 in which different cities/races/classes/alignments/deities all have factions associated with them. Complex system in which NPC only factions exists that effect quests, items, crafting, area access. You actually have to pay attention to who you ally yourself with, who you make enemies with, and who you kill in PvP.
12. Travel System - Obviously in a world so huge there has to be a decent travel system of Boats ala EQ, Air ala WoW, Horses ala DAoC, Teleportation. Limited ingress and egress points so that travel does not become trivial.
13. Risk / Reward System for PvP - A balanced system in which there is a reward for killing and a negative for dying. System very similar to EQ1's PvP servers in which if you are killed you go to your bind naked without your corpse, low on health/mana/stamina. You leave your corpse behind that must be recovered. The victor receives upon looting all on-person coin, non-equipped items and one randomly selected equipped item. The equipped item drop percentage would be based on the quality of the item. For instance, a relatively easy to come by item might have a one in five chance of dropping (20%). Your an uber player and you posses the Sword of Truth. You die, but your Sword of Truth only has a .1% chance of dropping (Once in about a thousand deaths). The drop percentage of quality items is also on a dynamic scale. Based on the number of opponents you face, the drop percentage of high quality items changes. If you fought a solo opponent, the opponent has the 0.1% chance to attain your Sword of Truth. If you fought twenty players and lost, there is virtually a zero chance that the Sword of Truth would be loot able.
14. Fully Scalable Client and amount of Client Limitations - A client designed so that even people with limited computers could play, yet powerful and impressive enough so that machines years after release on the highest settings would be stressed. Elimination of huge multi-account holders and prevention of macro bots' and buff bots'. A system in place in which you would have to go to extreme lengths to have multiple accounts. Different names, credit cards, computers, internet connections. With a limited world and population cap, one account per person.
15. One Character - Due to a classless and level less system, you would only create and advance one character. If you go down a path you do not like, you can delete the one character and start over. A skill tree system of advancement of a huge scale of thousands of possibilities. A partial off-line system of advancement. A player who spends 20 hours in the game per day would still get the furthest in the game based on sheer effort. Although, there would be diminishing returns as players that do not play as much get a limited off-line skilling bonus. This keeps the huge gap between meta-gamers and more casual players normally seen a bit narrower. The meta-gamer could still be king of the world yet the determined yet more casual player isn't completely out classed. Given enough time and determination, a player could be a master mage and archer. Although, a player that plays less than half as much could have no mage abilities but be just as much of a master archer under specialization.
16. Entire Staff Section Devoted to Balance - This staff section would routinely test, evaluate and quality control players interaction with the world, PvE and PvP. A balanced game where sheer ability rather than selecting the skill or ability of the month determines success.
I think such a MMORPG would be incredibly fun and enthralling. For such a game I would easily entertain a subscription cost above and beyond what is paid today. A world that could support 100-200,000 concurrent players would have a subscription base of around 500,000-1 million subscribers. Take the mean average of 750k subscribers @ $30/month and the revenue would be 22.5 million/month. A game of this scope would say take a design house of 1000 employees. Mean average employee salary of $6000/month ($72,000/year) = monthly personnel expense of 6 million/month. Factor in 50 million dollar loan for creation costs (5 years), design studio building itself, server hardware, internet backbone connection, I believe the business model could still be well into the black.
Granted, a game like WoW with limited content, limited personnel and a huge subscriber base makes a massive profit. Far above and beyond what I proposed above. I believe a game like WoW though is not for quality gaming, it is for the profit. Now, all I need is to win the 100 million dollar lottery to get this kick-started.
If you read this far, you must also be frustrated with the dismal state of MMORPG's. Please post your thoughts on my ideas and let's hear yours!
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Sadly, PvP in MMORPG's is in a very sad state these days. No, I do not consider little playgrounds like instances and battlegrounds as "PvP". If you can hide away from PvP 100% of the time like you can in 99% of so called games that feature PvP, I don't even consider them having PvP. If you think about it the last few games that had decent open world PvP where at the beginning of the genre. Games like EQ and Shadowbane. Some of my favorite gaming times were back then when you had decent PvE yet could fight PvP and get attacked ANYWHERE. Made for great teamwork and kept you on your toes = exciting gameplay. Something incredibly lacking in current titles that people just don't understand. Open world PvP games today like Darkfall and Mortal Online have great concepts but very poor execution. As a matter of fact, going down the future games list, I don't think there is a single MMORPG that has open world PvP. If they claim PvP, it is some watered down crap like arenas, instances or battlegrounds. I never understood why the vast majority of people would rather stand around in a circle jerk holding hands fighting only computer opponents. I guess a large part of that you can rack up to laziness, a lack of intelligence and a fear of confrontation. Right now I am playing EvE. Although a decent game, can get pretty boring considering once again most hide from PvP. Although you technically can attack and kill someone anywhere, you suicide in the process if it is high-sec. I think the game would be much better if there was no CONCORD or security status. Then again CCP would most likely lose a ton of carebear subscribers.
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Server merges coming starting on July 7th
General Discussion « Vanguard: Saga of Heroes 6/20/10 6:33:02 PM
I was going to give VG a try but now I understand there will be no-PvP at all after this server merge. No PvP = game put in dust bin of history as far as I am concerned. If I only wanted to play against computer opponents I wouldn't be connected to the internet. Pity. |
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I was really looking forward to GW2 until I found out the PvP is more instanced type nonsense and "special zones". Having 95% the world safe from PvP is lame. Nothing is more exciting then having a full PvP world in which players could battle it out anywhere and at the same time they PvE. I guess the golden era of full world PvP like EQ PvP servers are over, what a shame. Those are some of the best times ever. |
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Originally posted by Nasir64
Please post your facts other then your ramblings. Please show me where CCP shows these numbers. And please point me to where this says individual accounts. You have to understand I am on unemployment right now due to the economy and I play from DT til 1 or 2 am EST . I know what my screen says when I log to switch alts for my cyno pilots. Lets put this in 8 hour shifts shall we. 3 x 8 hour shifts at 30k (being nice) players. that is 90k players all around. Now give or take 20k for ones offline that are used for manufacturing, that is 110k at BEST. And a good majority of them are alt accounts. Subtract the trials at say 20k to be nice. and you still have 90k subs.
This shows such a lack of basic statistical analysis understanding that it is laughable. You should stick to watching cartoons instead of trying to make an intelligent post on such a subject. |
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WOW has over 50% of the market whats going to beat it?
The Pub at MMORPG.COM « General Discussion 2/26/09 7:24:11 AM
Originally posted by Chieftan
How many times are you going to reply with the word "shills"? Aren't you cool. Your argument is stunning. Not to mention you are using the word in the wrong context as I have nothing to gain from my statements. |
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WOW has over 50% of the market whats going to beat it?
The Pub at MMORPG.COM « General Discussion 2/25/09 7:24:18 AM
I agree. I don't see how you call the incredibly polished interface and your smooth interaction of the game world being mechanically bad in EvE. Especially against a game like WoW that has the complex mechanics of "Press F1 to swing sword", "Press F2 to cast spell" and you win. |
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