Originally posted by Regomar

I play 2-3 hours a day and I've NEVER seen a bot.  Nobody named kfjhsdfsdkjf, no naked rangers, no bot chains. 

Methinks this 'epidenic' is greatly exaggerated.

Oh I have and from time to time you will come across a bot chain, lol love that name, and ironically they were all rangers with shortbows.  all chasing one another.  All attacking the same mobs, all collecting loot, all visiting the same npc vendor, I followed two seperate chains for an hour for .. well for the fun of it. lol   I found it to be amusing, not annoying, was a level 50-60 zone and haha, I enjoyed watching.  What skill, what talent, one armored 5 naked.  well nearly naked.  And all had very unique names, not the sort of erfdfdsfer names you expected to see.

Anyway, botting is an issue, but is it so much an issue to make you this upset? or is it game breaking?  no, I don't think so, gold farmers are gonna be around forever, they just get more creative as new code is introduced to dectect them.   Lets give the devs a few months to work it out.. and just keep reporting the bots.    We can all do our part, not rely solely on the devs.

GAME OVER!

Welcome back Pocket, that was a much better read than the last, good to see your back in your old form.  :)

Firstly, I'd like to agree with you, for the most part.  While I am unsure by your column if indeed you were pointing a pejorative finger directly at developers employed by gaming companies, or the executives of these gaming companies(or the company in general).   Clearly from the posts above there is a lot of finger pointing at the developers themselves.  And it is with that I have an issue, and to an extent, disagree with you. (if indeed you were fingering out the developers)  

A developer, irrigardless of the project he/she is working on, has a job to do, for the most part, that job includes writing code.  It is their role to, for lack of a better explanation, convert ideas, logic, and or any form of function/method etc., into 'virtual' reality.  That is to say, they are given a set of rules, some logic for instance, and it's their job to ensure that a specific result is achieved.   When I press a left mouse button, my character interacts with what ever I am mouse'd over, or, I activate a skill.. etc....  For the likes of me, I can't see where having gaming experience can make that task any more easier, or more to the saticfaction of the gaming community as a whole.      Ok, I know that is a very litteral example and a poor one at that, however it gets my point accross.  Being a gamer has little to no baring on developers.  They have a task they are assigned and it is their role to ensure the desired results are achieved, no more, no less.

Now, if indeed you were pointing your finger towards the executive, designers, artists, world designers, quest/lore writers, customer support, team leads, community managers, and the like (the list is too long), well, then I agree whole heartedly.    It lies squarely on the plate of the creative minds, this, lack of gaming experience we talk of has the greatest impact from the 'creative' departments.   This is the area where I personally believe the problem begins, it is these groups and those like it that send their requirements to the dev teams to bring to light.  It is their expectations, design rules, good or bad, their logic that needs be coded to produce the desired results.  Keeping in mind the technology requirements, also dreamt up by the engineers who like to built lots of pretty blinking lights into the hardware (lol), a developer has a lot on his plate to contend with, lets cut them some slack.

Ok yes, I agree that EVERY employee should be questioned as you were with company 'B'.  That was AWESOME.  And yes, I agree that IF it were my company, I would indeed be looking to employ as many creative minds with some REAL WORLD GAMING EXPERIENCE.  And yes, I would indeed hire someone who is NOT a gamer if their specific skills would be considered an asset to the final product.   So, in closing, I do NOT agree that every developer needs gaming experience, their skill in developing solid, bug free code is, or would be, my first priority, but I assure you, the creative minds had better have their sh_t together or find themselves replaced, I've a budget and a timeline/deadline to meet.  Investors to please, and of course my own ass on the line.    :))

Good job Pocket, cant wait to read more.

GAME OVER!

I just don't understand the need for such a site.  I mean if you don't like the game why bother playing it, and more importatnly why bother spending your time and money to bash it?   There is no logical reason, as you can voice your opionions on sites like these, or the many other sites that cater to mmo's, even swtor specifically.   

I just think your time, effort, and hard earned money can be better used in perhaps a game you do like.  what ever that be.

Best of luck to you finding the game you do like.

GAME OVER!

yes I am quite aware thanks.

when I said 

"In closing, articles like this, frustrate me, passing one's opinion off as fact is, well, shameful. The FACT is, we are all very different, and the opinions on this subject are as varied as we are unique.  I do not believe that any one opinion, be it mine, or anyone ones will be the answer to the gaming industry woes."

I was speaking in general and not fingering out the Author.. I was actually pointing out that this article will solve nothing.  And as the title was meant to "get our attention", it did more than that, it did not ask the question whether or not F2P is killing the industry, it had already presumed it has, and the content of the "editorial" would explain how it did?    My point was.. IT HAS NOT.

Wow, Pocket I am not going to go all "I'm so disappointed in you" but I will have to admit, this is not what I expected from one of your articles.  I have come to expect more from you than this really short, shallow article.   You've always been careful to keep a balance good vs. bad, and gone the extra mile to make the bad seem, well bad without being too rude or obnoxious about it, as many bloggers do.  Enough said on that, except I hope to see the old you back soon.

You have certainly picked a topic I have great interest in, and if anyone has ever read my posts in other threads or blogs will know I have the said time and time again, that no matter the platform, the business model, the genre, the publisher, developer, or any other differentiating factor, the blame for the rise and or more specifically  fall of any title lies with the gaming community as a whole.    

We have become heavily burdoned with expectations, we want to see everything we love from every mmo we've played included in a single title, we want everyting we hate, dislike, and or could do without excluded from the same title.   We've come to expect the fully polished, bug free, exceptional combat system with active, required dodging system, line of sight targeting, fast pased, one shot snipers, invincible tanks with their trusted healer at their side.  We've come to expect a storyline filled with lore, options, voice over, content based on our choices with nearly unlimited variations and an open world to pawn the silly little noob who crossed your uber path with his PvP flag up.   Hey why not.. we are after all the reason the game was made in the first place, we are the consumer who will use, consume, play, live, or otherwise use the software.  Right?  How dare those corporate suits tell us how we should play their game and or what content we can have or what tools, skills, or weapons are left out.   How dare they make my flip over the head of my foe with a double twist and back stab look like I blinked and phased through my foe and smacked the back of their head with my open hand.  How dare they.....  

STOP!

It's their game.  And if they gave us everthing we wanted in one title it would take a life time to develop, test, retest, release, patch, content update, improvements, more expectations, more demands from the players, etc.. on and on and on.  It would never end.   I am not saying that for a second we as gamers have every right, or no right at all to demand anything from any title.  It IS however our choice to continue playing any title we see fit to play.  Will we ever be 100% saticfied with that one game?  Will we ever find a game we love every aspect of, and hate nothing?  No.. we wont.. unless you develop it yourself, and well.. more power to you I wish you all the success in the world.  But I suspect you will piss off allot of players, and perhaps make a few happy.  

The bottom line here is, and I hope everyone who has commented and made some pretty valid points, all of you have, and all of your opinions matter as you are the consumer, you are the player, and your voices shall be heard if even in this forum.   But the bottom line is there are just far too many voices to be heard, far to many opinions, far to many expectations, far to many of us, for any one title, publisher, develper or game house to even think about pleasing everyone.   The current trend is to please the masses, the largest of numbers and don't think for a second the companies are not listening to, reading posts, and or otherwise polling the community to find out how players play, game metrics, statistical reporting, community managers in the forums, customer service inquiries, complaints, praise, you name it.. they listen.  And it is a result of those that they pick and choose from the largest community as possible and implement, plan or design their game around.     Only AFTER the fact do the real voices come out.. and that is those of us who had, for what ever your personal reasons are, higher expectations, than the average.    We will always be the ultimate consumers, we will blast through the content, designed for the average casual player to take 6 months to complete, in a week or less.  We will always be the one's who claim combat sux, or is too unresponsive, we will be the one's who complain end game is really end of the game for us as there is nothing more.  We will always be the first to come back after a major patch just to get the newest latest top end game gear.    We will always come back......  IF we loved the game, even for a short time.    So I put to you a question, all of you.  Which game is it that YOU always go back to?  Why? Perhaps the first mmo you ever played?

I will conclude with one last statement, no matter our expectations, be they unrealistic or not, we will always find fault where there is fault and sometimes where there is none, and that fault is relative to YOU, not the game in general (bugs aside).  We are individuals, unique in our expectations as much as we are unique in all aspects of our lives.   How can we as a community expect a single game developer and their partners to churn out a product that meets ALL our expectations?  I think that is our biggest, unrealistic expectation of all.

GAME OVER!

Originally posted by rumpleman

Ugg... why does everything have to be so absolute?

 

"Free to play is killing gaming", "this game is dead", or "that game failed".

When in all actuality, lots of people are gaming. Some would argue that there are more gamers than ever before. And those games that people often quote as "dead" or have "failed" are still making money or they wouldn't be online.

 

Just because "you" don't like a particular game or aspect of a game, does not mean the sky is falling. If you want things to change, make a stand and stop spending money on the games you dislike.

 

/endrant

edited typo's

I agree with this statement, F2P is not the enemy.. we are.  The problem is not the buisness model, its the player base.  WE force the companies into being more creative with their buisness models because WE are more choosy, we have more games than ever to dedicate our gaming time to.  WE have other finacial responsiblities, WE are more and more becoming more demanding, have more expectations, some unrealistic.    WE, the gaming community sub-culture as a whole are the issue here.  WE are killing games.   WE are all as unique as the next fellow in game genre's, gaming playstyle, preferences, likes and dislikes and, frankly, now that there are MILLIONS of gamers, and for this conversation I am going to exclude console gamers as, well, this is MMORPG.COM.. so we will stick to MMO's, WE have come to expect ALL our demands be met or we simply move on to the next game.  

I might add, I am rather disappointed in this article, it's poorly written.  The examples used to justify your opinion are weak and in all honesty, self-saticfying.   I mean.. The Sims?  Who even played that?  Kidding, I know allot of people did, it was a distraction from other MMO's when one was needed, like SL, or IMVU, or some other SOCIAL, and or REAL LIFE/VIRTUAL LIFE line blurring games are.  

Look, Free to PLay is not the enemy, subscription based business models are no longer the BEST models to use, Cash Shops, Pay for Power, or Pay to Win, how ever you wish to coin it, is here to stay.   This article would be better served if you were not forcing your opinion on us as fact.  You failed.    And I wont even begin to touch on my personal choice of business model because I'd like to think it varies.    BUT..   if given the choice I would have to say it is totally dependant on the title.    Allow me to elaborate;

Lets take a title like the recently released Guild Wars 2, and its predecessor Guild Wars 1.  Here is a business model that clearly has worked, pay for the game, no sub fees, pay for expansions, and a cash shop you CAN  use if you so desire for consumables, social items etc...    While I PERSONALLY think this is a great model, and perhaps even IDEAL, I would like to say that a PERFECT model in my view would include the above with an OPTIONAL subscription.  Subscribing has its bennifits, so I would hope there'd be some real advantage to subbing to a game with this model, say, sub based content, or items, exp buffs, etc.. 

Now, lets look at the subscription only model, keeping it recent,  games like Rift, WoW (yes I know wow is free for 20 levels, so is Rift), TSW, etc..  All pay for client, pay for subscription, and pay in cash shops.  All fine and dandy untill you burn through all the content and get bored, a new title is released, cancel sub, play new title, get bored, and re-sub to your favorite game.    Lets be frank.. While wow may be the king of subcriber accounts, it was NOT king of the mmo's, if one uses percentages, wow may have had the largest number of subscribed accounts, but it also has the largest percentage of canceled subbed accounts as well.  Simply because of its numbers.    But my point in bringing this up is only to show that subbed based business models are not always the best way to keep your players long term.  

Next, lets look at the Free to Play model, and the massive number of titles in the business model, and lol, all the titles that have converted to it  from a sub based model, those that are about to (swtor, AoC, and Aion are just 3 examples) .  I use these three because I subbed to all of them at one point.  There are also a slew of titles upcomming that will be FREE to PLAY..   Why?  An attempt to KILL the gaming industry?  LOL come on..   the only thing that can kill the industry would be we all stop playing games, and that's not likely to ever happen, even as we grow older, we, er I at over 40, are still gaming.  And younger generations are joining in on the fun.  Free to Play just opens the doors to more and more gamers, who, perhaps do not have the cash for subscriptions but do, perhaps from time to time have a few extra bucks they can sink into a cash shop or micro-transaction shop as they are better known as in the industry, for some gear or consumables, or bag expansions, what have you.

I do not claim to be a profesional writer, nor is my spelling all that accurate, and lacking a spell checker in this forum post, pretty sure you will find many.  Nor to I claim to be an expert in the gaming industry, I do however claim to be a gamer, and as a true gamer, perhaps old-school gamer, business model means absolutley NOTHING to me..  What matters, and what should matter is whether or not I enjoy the game, that is what will keep me playing.  If I am no longer challenged, I move on.   Hell I paid over a 100 bucks for all of WoW's expansion, bought 6 months of game time, and I played 2 weeks.  Did I give it a fair chance? Perhaps not, but no game that lets me go from level 1 to 85 in three solid days is worth my time.  And I am not singling out WoW here, so fan boys and haters need not troll, but its true of ANY title..   Sorry TSW, loved the game, just blew through it too fast, same is true with swtor, and many other titles.  

In closing, articles like this, frustrate me, passing one's opinion off as fact is, well, shameful. The FACT is, we are all very different, and the opinions on this subject are as varied as we are unique.  I do not believe that any one opinion, be it mine, or anyone ones will be the answer to the gaming industry woes.  The Fact is, some people do not like to pay subscriptions, some perfer it thinking they get ALL the game has to offer for a montly fee, some like a mix, some like Box Priced games with no subs and a cash shop to support the developers and still, some prefer a mix of all three.   There is no industry killing business model.  There is however game killing players who move on for lack of .. well content, a game that keeps their attention, and I have been at this a loong time, very looooong time.   I can say with some certainty, no matter the business model, if you love a game, you stay and play, if you get bored and move on to other games , you WILL come back to the one game you loved most, provided it is still online.    Lets put the game killing chat behind us and own up to our own faults first.  WE are the game killers.  

thanks all.  cheers.

Originally posted by Saryhl

GW2 and TSW were not both trying to be classless. Op you made a slight mistake. GW2 is a class based system where the ROLES are blurred to become near roleless so no dedicated tank or healer roles. TSW is a CLASSLESS game but still employs roles such as Tank, DPS and Heals. The two words are not synonymous and should not be lumped together.

 

/end mini rant.

You would be correct, and my use of the words roles and or class in conjunction with both TSW and GW2 was intentional, it was in fact meant to exaggerate my point some what.   I agree with you whole heartedly, with one exception, I do, and perhaps others might agree, is that infact the lines have been blurred.  For example, there are Tanking Class', that fill the tank role.  Healer Class' that fill the Healer Role.  The Class's can be blurred too, for example in Rift, Cleric, Rouge, and Warrior have a Tanking Spec, soon, the Mage will have a Battle hardened off Tank (and from what I have heard a very possible full on tank).  As such, these Class' not longer have a set Role.   That was sort of my intent.  Perhaps could have been more clear.  But, I am no professional writer, just.. random thoughts jumbled together to form a pseudo-logical discussion about what was on my mind, and to perhaps get some thoughts on the subject from all of you.  :)  

As for the posters comment about ragging on any game, no, I enjoy playing most games solo, in groups, or what have you, I absolutely will not flame any one game, well, perhaps WoW.  Never really cared for it much lol.  hahah Sorry.. had to be funny.

Cheers.

Originally posted by Kilrane

Originally posted by Kyleran

At the end of the day, it's just easier to lump them all under a single umbrella and not worry about the acronym acurately reflecting the core design of the MMO. 

This ^

 

I don't know why people get so up-in-arms about silly lil' labels. At the end of the day did you enjoy your game? Does it really matter if it has 60 people on the same server at the same time vs. 50,000 on the same server as you?

 

I understand there is a thrill about having so many concurrent players on at once, and I agree that there is a time and place for it but not every "MMO" is capable of pulling this off. My question to the OP would be, does every multiplayer game out there that isn't capable of server loads such as what you see in EvE, or capable of obtaining and holding onto sub numbers seen in WOW really effect your game play to the point that its no longer an "MMO"?

Firstly, I don't think we are up in arms about anything really.  I simply wanted to point out that perhaps we need take a look at  what it is we are actually playing.  MMO Role Playing Games(RPG), MMO Action Games (AC) , MMO Real Time Strategy (RTS), MMO Fantasy Action Games (FAG), MMO First Person Shooter (FPS), MMO Third Person Shooter (TPS), and the like. I am saying, or rather, suggesting, that we have lumped everything together in an attempt to simplify things?  or confuse the gaming comminity as a whole?  Let's be realistic, allot of gamers read a review, and see FPS, and immediatly they think stalking prey in a fist person view PvP action filled war time shooter.   They'd be correct, for the most part.   But Say RPG and all of a sudden it COULD mean role playing, it COULD mean Action Adventure PvE , WvW, Exploration, and or anything else you can stick in there.    It's a discussion, not a true rant or an attempt to troll.   Everyone's thoughts, opinions and suggestions are welcomed and appreciated.  Thank you for yours.

In response to your question, I'd first like to point out, that....

a) Server population or capacity has absolutly nothing to do with the topic of MMO's being Role Playing or not.  While population might extend the Role Play to a wider audiance, or groups of players intereacting more interestingly, it has no baring on the topic.

b) By definition, and MMO is a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game.  Or, that is to say, 2 or more players.  :) really, multiplayer implies more than one.  That is all I have to say on that subject.    

In closing, the point of this topic was to discuss the RPG, or not RPG in many MMO today.    While a ROSE of any other name may smell as sweet, it's still a rose.    And todays so-called RPG's, especially the MMORPG, are simply no longer a rose, but instead, perhaps, a Tulip?    The Role Play is lost in RPGs today, that was my point.   And the topic of discussion, not server populations or subscription retension.    Which by the way, the future of MMO is the FREEMIUM business model, subscriptions will soon be a thing of the past.   You can mark my words on a calendar. :)

Anyway, thanks for the replies tho, I do appreciate you input, and I will again check back in to continue the descussion.

Originally posted by maji
MMORPGs are for the masses. The masses don't want to be forced to look for other people to team up with. The masses want to log into the game, and do some questing and stuff. As such: sure, sooner or later such a game will be made, but it will be a rarity. Most games will be tailored for solo play.

What then is the point of having it online if all we are doing is soloing?  Massively MULTIPLAYER..   implies more than one .. more than solo.   OP is right..   too much solo,   not enough Role playing in SOCIAL INTERACTIVE, IMMERSIVE game play..   

Hi all,

Believe it or not, this is the very first thread I have stared since I joined MMORPG.COM a long time ago.  Just never really felt the need as everyone seemed to already be discussing things that were on my mind, lol, and some things that blow my mind.   But, I wanted to share something, and I hope to have an open, rational, and troll free discussion here.

It has dawned on me that of late, with all the recent title releases in the past few years, and those soon to be released, that MMO Role Playing Games are not really RPGs.   That is to say, so very few people immerse themselves into their characters anymore.  And as such, I think the genre needs be renamed.  Perhaps to.. MMO Class Playable Games.  

The Holy Trinity, no matter the game, despite claims of a classless system exists.  And yes I know this is not the fault of the game maker, but rather, that of the players themselves.   By that I mean, it seems we have been brainwashed that this is the only way to succeed in the game.  (Not True)  Recent titles with claims of being classless and giving player freedom (sandboxing) all end the same way...  /lfg LF1M TANK for XXXXX Instance.    I am not saying this is bad or good, I am saying, I guess, what's so unique about a classless system where everyone still plays a class and this extends to Roge, Warrior, Mage, or what have you.   They are all class' are they not?  Sorry GW2 and TSW, love you both, but.... you failed at classless. 

And that brings me to my main point, have we redefined the word ROLE to mean CLASS?   Sure, Tanking is a Role, DPS or Healing, are roles.   But I remember when RPG meant role playing game.   As in, we were all in character, played out a fantasy role what ever it was for you.   There was a HUGE social aspect to RPGs you NEVER see anymore, and I don't mean social as in we are all on a VoIP server communicating strategies.   The RPGs of today are no more than a co-operative kill spree, race to end game games,  and then what?  Bitch about no content updates?  That the game got boring?   Of course it did, your not in character, your just OOC Killing.    Yes?  No?  Your thoughts on this?      Oh and I know there are some of you out there "Competitive Professionals" who enjoy the out right slaughter of others for the shear fun of it, me too at times.  But the race to END GAME?  lol just saying it makes me laugh, we call it END GAME because?  Well, its the END of the game, there is no more..  Some will argue that an MMO starts at end game, lol, silly people, it started at 0.  What you did, or how long it takes you to get to 220, well.. that's up to you.   (I am guilty, I do it too, so I am not arguing this point.  Just saying.)

I for one miss the days when logging into my favorite MMO at the time (what ever it was) and getting INTO CHARACTER, and playing out a role in a very social, fun, and often crazy wacked out world WE made.    Yes yes, there were times we ran amuck sticking daggers and arrows into the knees of mobs, and or ganked a few newbs who stumbled into our little community unaware of the dangers a foot.    But we never went OOC.     I have played on a few RP servers, in MANY..  omg so many  MMO in the past few years, and um... where was the RP?  I might as well have just joined the PvP server and ran around owning noobs and yelling.. WHO'S YOUR DADDY?  after each kill.    Really.    

I am sure this topic has been brought up, but I thought we'd re-visit it considering recent so called classless ROLE PLAYING GAMES being released.  But I think the consistant whine, bitching, complaining and general unhappiness of gamers in threads these days really boils down to being our own fault.   We turned a once awesome genre into a race to the end, and world firsts, and co-operative instance gear farming.    "HEY.. LOOK I GOT AN ACNIENT EPIC PURPLE WITH GOLD BORDER CHEST..  WOOOT ! "  big deal..   now you need farm the rest of the set for the set bonus.   lol keep grinding.    

I personally am bored, burned out of the now normality of MMOCPGs.   BRING BACK THE ROLE PLAYING IN RPGs.  

/end rant.   

Comments welcome, please be civil.  

Cheers.

Originally posted by loulaki

Originally posted by Thebigthrill

Not copying.

The secret world sucks , SWTOR was a disaster and hopefully GW2 will bomb.

 

A prison mmorpg

A cowboy themed mmorpg

A zombie mmorpg

We need to be able to build towns , cities , houses , use our webcams so we can put our faces on our toons, upload jpegs so we can add custom logos to our creations.

Upload mp3s so we can put custom music in our houses , we need 1 server so we can play with millions of people.

 

for that reasons you want GW2 to succeed otherwise the WoW will ghost the industry and its products...

 

btw all these you mention are in EVEonline and the ArcheAge Online...

also in GW2 you can upload the music you want ...Choose Your Own Music in Guild Wars 2

finally there is a reason devs wants premade logos for guilds, cause of the innapropiate manners of some guys who walk around with a penis on their back ...

LOL Penis on their back... gives new meaning to being Fkd from behind.

Originally posted by SuperDonk

I didn't want to do it, I wanted GW2 to be my last hope...

 

But, it's not. GW2 has it's place on my harddrive, and it will continue too, but it isn't going to be my mainstay MMO. I really, really wanted it to be, but the PVP is just not what I was looking for. I thought the "balanced" pvp and the lack of gear differences would of been enough, but sadly it isn't. There is nothing in GW2 that is like my rogue in WoW....

 

Maybe I'm getting to old to PVP, maybe I do need gear to balance it out when I have had too many beers (my favorite time to pvp). But I'm finding myself wanting to go back to the PVP my fingers know.

 

It's funny that I'm sad that I have to go back to WoW, but it's time for me to realize that nothing out there in the MMO market gives me what WoW gives me. And that is simple, fun, killing of others. I don't care about massive battles, I want to kill the guy in front of me.

 

I know now not to prepurchase another MMO because I always end up back on my rogue, ganking at will, under stealth. I'm sorry GW2, you will be a great game for many.... just not me .

you can always send me the account information, I'll play it.

Originally posted by Kenze

so much excuse making for what is basicly a bad game. Im not sure where you people who claim funcim didnt advertise live.. but i saw more Gaming site Banners(here especially) and  TSW commercials on tv than I did ToR or GW2.

The game setting is nice, the visuals are nice but those alone arent enough to make people stay.  TSW is another in a long line of mmos w/  unrealised  potential

 lol this makes me laugh..    serioulsy?    Bad game = WoW, or any other no skill required game. lol. 

Nonetheless, TSW is an amazing game, but being amazing is not enough.  Not today.   Truth of the matter is there is just far to many mmo on the market and more coming every day it seems, be they free to play or sub based.     The market has changed, no matter how you slice it.  Free to play is here to stay, and while I do not subscribe to the model, not as it stands, it has potential to be the future of gaming.      That said, FunCom has not failed here, dispite many doom sayers here, and all over the mmo community of late, the real issue here, and I did not see it mentioned, EA.    EA has a history of pushing games to market as quick as possible in order to make that instant cash grab of boxed sales.    Let us be realistic here, this "publisher" relationship is going to be a thing of the past as boxed sales will be a thing of the past, electronic delivery of a product is the way to get your game on.     Unless you are playing some console system when a hard copy of the disc is needed (and even that is becoming a thing of the past with HDD's installed in console game systems).   

If we were to take the game itself and base our comments on a true evaluation of the game we could only conclude that there will be as many varied opinions as there are gamers.   Some will love it, some will hate it, some will be on the fence, but one thing is for sure, TSW, like ANY OTHER MMO is not for everyone.  Lets face it, TSW requires you have a brain, and know how to use it.  While combat is not much different than most mmo, your ability to be more than DPS, or HEALER or TANK is required, your ability to decipher clues and solve investigation mission, tho not enough of them for my taste, is required.   The fact that boxed sales are not up to snuff according to investors is a fault not of the game itself, but unrealistic expectations.    One can not really expect a million sales for a game in todays market.  There are just TOO many mmo to choose from and far too many are free.    

I purchased my copies (2 of them) for TSW not because I love the game, which I do, but because I showed some support to a company who brought me 10 years of enjoyable game play in Anarchy-Online and a few months in AoC.     10 YEARS.  well actually its 11 years now  .. but  think about that, for a "FailCom"  game 11 years is an EPIC fail.  NOT!  Get over yourselves haters.

TSW will have its place, I do, however, think the business model needs changing.  Success today of any MMO will be of the subless business model.  IF your going to charge me 60 bucks for a game (in this case I shelled out for 1 Master Pack as well) so 150 bucks..   I expect everything else to be free.      Not because I am cheap, but because I will get it elsewhere, and THAT is the only reason a game today will fail, because we can get our fix for free elsewhere.   So unless you are pumping out content daily, and I dont mean repeatables..  cause frankly I am sick as heck of dailies.     Tired of repeating the same quests, killing the same mobs,  running the same instances over and over and over.   I had hoped to see more content in TSW.. and was willing to give more time to see that happen, but I have to honestly say, it's not happening fast enough.   I am NOT a completionist, or hardcore end game raider (tho I certainly do enjoy it),  in two short months, I have completed all 5 nightmares, ran through all the lairs, completed EVERY Quest but one. (Too Deep) and have killed EVERY rare mob in EVERY map.    Sooooo.. I ended up being a completionist without even trying.    

IF Ragnar happens to read this..  I hope you take away from this post what I wanted you to.. The game is great and you have my support, but PLEASE.   re-think the sub based model, you are not offering me anything to keep me subbed, I'm done already.  What's next?   Am I to be forced to consistantly repeat every mission from the start again in an attempt to fill my skill wheel?  Oh.. btw.  I am 87% complete in the skill wheel too, I cuold farm AP in SH speed runs for a couple more days (tho I am subbed till the end of December) and will have completed that too.   So, Funcom, Ragnar, what are we paying for????    Think about that.    Charge your 60 bucks for the game, lose the subscription, and boxed sales will go up.. I assure you.

cheers.

GW2 had nothing to do with it.. if you ever really played the game you will have realized in short order just how lame a game it was.   what potential it had was tossed out the window with its extrealy long, and MASSIVE learning curve, and poor tutorials.  Lack of any real content to speakl of and a seriously disappointing attempt to compete with EVE.   

I am soo not surprised to hear this in the slightest.

Indeed, and if one understands the life cycle of the developer world, there is a moderate sized team working on a project, as it nears release teams are enlarged, or hours extended to meet deadlines, and once published, released, and working fine, layoffs happen, there is no need for larger or even moderate sized teams, a small dedicated team is all you need to maintain patches and content given the right set of tools and talents.

I'm not worried in the slightest.  It's common place in our world.   And yes, I presume they will be hired back, as FC also stated there there is a Prohect X in the works..   I wonder what it is?

After watching the video, reading the entire thread, and having been in CB some time PvPing.... TONES  without FATE.. (lame, but useful way to test PvP content I suppose.)  All I can say Oper.... Go back to WoW and your Macro Spamming..  really.     Thats all fanboy.

agreed, the first time new player will be lost completly in the *cough* tutorial..   Frankly I stopped playing the moment I was done the tutorial. and well maybe a mission or two.. the game just was not, is not ready..