Originally posted by sbarra1x

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by sbarra1x

Originally posted by powerplay

Correct me if I'm wrong. 

 

DEs - Run around with a bunch of people picking apples, chopping trees and zerging monsters. No stratagey needed. No communication needed. If you die run back until the event ends. Very low stress no prepartion time needed. Jump in when ever you want. 

 

PvP - Click a button jump in a battle. Gear is normalized. No need to gear up. Learn the rules, then zerg towers, zerg keeps, zerg supply lines? Heavy emphasis on groups. Not much 1v1. 

 

Progression - Max level gear is all weighted the same. One person my have a different stat allocation, but the power level is the same. No tiers, no power advancement. A person playing for 5 months is the same as someone who has played 1 month, other than cosmetics. 

 

I think this is perfect for a couple of my friends who work long hours. I'll probably tell them to buy a copy so we can jump in on the weekend and get a few hours of pvp in. If I'm correct they should be at no disadvantage compared to those who spend 40 hours a week in game, right?

Dynamic events still beat questing quite considerably (quests being the core gameplay mechanic that dynamic events essentially replace, at least mostly.)

Note: quests do not require preparation, teamwork or communication, even if you have grouped up for them (generally speaking.)

If you look at the core of dynamic events and what they actually bring to the table, it’s very easy to see that they are vastly superior to standard quests in a number of ways; they solve certain problems and bring people together, making the game much more of an MMO than most (if not all) of its competitors, at least in regards to the levelling portion of the game.

Adding to that, how do you know that there are not dynamic events that require true teamwork to the extent that raids in other MMORPGs do? Have you seen and experienced all of them for yourself? And if so, how do you know that they will not be added to the game at a later date? The groundwork is all laid out; there’s no reason at all that this could not be a possibility.

 

What’s wrong with that? Being able to experience the game for what it truly is without having to grind is a good thing; it’s not a negative at all. Also not being at a forced disadvantage just because someone has spent more time playing that you and or had more luck than you is also a very good thing; someone should only be better than you if they are just that; better than you. Normalised gear will allow the more skilled players to stand out from the crowd; nobody will be carried by their gear.

 

Exactly, how awesome is that? Well, for me at least. As a pvper I don't want someone to best me just because they have more spare time; if that extra spare time does not translate into a greater degree of skill and in game knowledge, then why should they have a free win handed to them?

I can see why some people do not like this aspect of the game; the gear treadmill is what a vast majority of MMORPGs revolve around these days, but it doesn't have to be like that. What about playing for months and even years on end just to have fun? There are still going to be plenty of nuggets to help distinguish yourself from newer players; you can still get that sense of achievement and advancement, that same feeling of progression.

 

Pretty much, unless the people who have played for longer are just better at the game in general.

But yeah you are right; Guild Wars 2 is going to be an exceptional game for casual players, but that does not necessarily mean that hardcore gamers shouldn’t play it as well.

Do you really need more powerful gear to make the game meaningful to you?

There will still undoubtedly be challenging pve content that requires preparation, teamwork and communication, skill etc. As for pvp content, well it’s all about those things already, just to a larger degree than other MMORPGs as you cannot be carried to victory by your gear.

 

Blue.

 

Purple.

 

OCD complete.

Um, ok.

It’s more just an easy way to quote something specific. Note how the colour of the text matches that of the text it’s in response to.

Yeah but now I want either lifesavers or fruitstripes gum.

Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

"It is ALL mindset. 

 

You can PLAY casually or you can play hardcore."

 

well,maybe i missed some cool and exiciting thing guild wars 2 is doing.but in terms of mmos,you eather have a hardcore mmo,or a casual one.you cant play both,both hardcores and casuals want different things.you cant please both at the same time

Sure you can, MMO's are big games, not all content has to be designed around one difficulty or one ideal demographic. Their dungeon system is a great example of this. That's not even going into PVP aspects like the competitive type.

Played some music, and played some Warband. Same as every weekend more or less.

Originally posted by DJJazzy

Are we really this bored?

 

True time for some warband.

Originally posted by Dredphyre

Originally posted by Trobon

This thread has definitely made me lose a little faith in humanity. Not because of the OP of course, but because of far, far too many people who thought he was somehow serious when the original post was ridiculous and every post he's made in the thread since have been even more so.

I guess I no longer have to wonder how anyone could mistake the Colbert Report as a serious right wing show.

The difference is that Colbert is actually a good comedian, and knows what he's doing with regard to satire.

 

What I find rather ironic about his 'ironic' post is that he's trying to claim that GW2 is innovative and original, and yet his ironic post is so cliche and lacks any originality.  Seen these sorts of lame attempts at irony for nearly 10 years now...for every MMO.

Originally posted by Dredphyre

Originally posted by Norpan
Hey guys. OP is obviously being ironic. Thought that was pretty clear...

No. It's actually not that clear.  If that is true, that he's trying to be ironic, then he's a horrible comedian.

" This is where it is most obvious that Guild Wars 2 is just another WOW clone. The combat is just the standard repetition of hitting things, shooting things, and casting spells . . . LAME. And you do all this WITH WEAPONS. Plus, what is it you fight? That's right, monsters and bandits and crap, just like every other MMO."

"I want TRUE innovation!!! Round screens! 4d! The ability to play as a real engineer that builds memory cards for typewriters! A game that plays itself!"

Originally posted by aesperus

I don't know what's more hilarious.

The OP, people getting angry about the OP, or haters agreeing w/ the OP. Lol

I know it's the internet, but some satyre is still obvious.

It works like this

 *See thread title*

what follows is this...

Then the rest of us are like

             ~ "did you take the time to read guys?"~

Originally posted by terrant

Originally posted by bazak

actualy your wrong here, he is by his very words ignoring and miss stating things, he continualy denys that you can fire a projectile without tab targeting (except ala aoe ground targets) an have it hit. he is trying to spread mis information.

 

normaly i find your posts reasonable, but lately they have been getting slanted (grain of sand or two added to one side) toward defending people who come in spreading misimformation. based on how u usualy post, i just think you dont want to see that a good portion of these people are actualy trying to spread lies etc. i understand the wish to be nuetral but... there comes a point where trying to remain nuetral you start to see things a bit wrong (a pit ive fallen into enough times that i notice it when im doing it most of the time now).

 

Disclaimer: people who try to make GW2 look like something it isnt, whether it be to make it look better or worse are both just as wrong in my opinion

Here's the thing about the tab targeting mess. The answer that "you don't have to tab target" doesn't cut it. To opponents of tab tageting, having it as an option removes much of the challenge from the game, since you just hit whatever you target regardless. So it doesn't matter that you can choose NOT to tab target, to someone like that. 

 

However, tab targeting is not the same as auto-lock, something MANY players don't realize. Mostly since most games that do one do the other.

 

I'll agree with the rest though. While a proponent of the game, I try to see both sides, but I also try to stomp out misinformation on either side as I come but it.

I just want to point out I was referring to his basic list of facts that are truths borken down to their barest form (only to attempt to say the game is bad due to these thinsg or "just more of the same"). I wasn't referring to his OP. Where he tried to explain a game he hasn't played.

Originally posted by bazak

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by terrant

Originally posted by bishbosh

it is FACT that gw2 combat is tab target with a dodge skill

it is FACT that dynamics events just keep on repeating with minimal lasting effect on the game world

it is FACT that you can not rent out shops or lease a forge after you capture a castle

 

im sorry but provided FACTS. its not my fault almost everyone here is so blinded by fanboyism.

Since there's a lot of just "you're a troll lolol" and not a lot of clear disputing of your "facts" allow me to rebut.

 

actualy your wrong here, he is by his very words ignoring and miss stating things, he continualy denys that you can fire a projectile without tab targeting (except ala aoe ground targets) an have it hit. he is trying to spread mis information.

 

normaly i find your posts reasonable, but lately they have been getting slanted (grain of sand or two added to one side) toward defending people who come in spreading misimformation. based on how u usualy post, i just think you dont want to see that a good portion of these people are actualy trying to spread lies etc. i understand the wish to be nuetral but... there comes a point where trying to remain nuetral you start to see things a bit wrong (a pit ive fallen into enough times that i notice it when im doing it most of the time now).

 

Disclaimer: people who try to make GW2 look like something it isnt, whether it be to make it look better or worse are both just as wrong in my opinion

I was actually saying what you are just in a less overt way. My point is he doesn't seem to want an actual discussion he will just take everyone in circles around these facts "that mean a bad game"...

Reason 1 The "facts" post above

Reason 2. responses like "so you agree GW2 does have simple tab target mechanics with a "dodge" gimmick"?

reason 3. Saying things like "blinded by fanboyism."

Originally posted by terrant

Originally posted by bishbosh

it is FACT that gw2 combat is tab target with a dodge skill

it is FACT that dynamics events just keep on repeating with minimal lasting effect on the game world

it is FACT that you can not rent out shops or lease a forge after you capture a castle

 

im sorry but provided FACTS. its not my fault almost everyone here is so blinded by fanboyism.

Since there's a lot of just "you're a troll lolol" and not a lot of clear disputing of your "facts" allow me to rebut.

 

1) The game can target with the tab key, yes. There is a dodge skill, yes. However, it's not auto-lock ala wow. Positioning, los, the direction you are facing, and the presence of any other opponents in the field of view affect things. In other words, if You fire a shot at my team mate, and I get in front of it, I get hit, even though they were targeted. While your two facts are correct, that's like saying "icebergs are made of water, therefore I can drink an iceberg". You''re missing some thngs.

2) That is NOT a fact. if certain events are not completed, they will spawn new events and WILL have an impact on the world (albeit temporary). Both players and NPCs can and will vie to control waypoints, overrun towns, etc. No, you won't permanently change the game forever for doing an event, but it does make a different. The newbie zones are poor examples of how it works, because they repeat WAY too often right now, esp since everyone's in them. Event timers scale to zone pop, I believe.

3) Truth. All transactions taken place on the auction house. There are no player shops or anything like that. This isn't that kind of game. If that's what you are looking for, this isn't the game for you.

This is the funny thing about this type of thread I mean if you read the op's points, he's really saying the same thing you are, it's just how you look at these things that really matters. All three of his points really apply to most themepark MMO's. ;-(aside from the dodge aspect of course)-;

The only fact I can see in this whole thing really is that the OP clearly thinks these are bad things in a game, he's essentially trying to argue on the basis of preference, it's just going to be a redundant merry-go-round, most likely to his own benefit (he's bored).

Note this is more aimed at the OP;s post than your own, which was a well written point by point rebuttal, and I agree with you over the OP. It's just all he's going to do is say why all of these things are bad, which really only has any bearing for himself.

Originally posted by p_c_sousa

Originally posted by bishbosh

Originally posted by DannyGlover

 

---

Originally posted by bishbosh
no one here has actually bothered to refute any of the points i made. just personal attacks

 

i guess i must be correct

---

 

You're confusing point with opinion. You really don't have a point, you're just sharing your opinion. There's nothing to refute. Sorry people are bashing you. You are correct in assuming your opinions are yours.

it is FACT that gw2 combat is tab target with a dodge skill

it is FACT that dynamics events just keep on repeating with minimal lasting effect on the game world

it is FACT that you can not rent out shops or lease a forge after you capture a castle

 

im sorry but provided FACTS. its not my fault almost everyone here is so blinded by fanboyism.

it is a fact that you clear need play GW2 yet.loool.

tell me how i tab target anything if i didnt any tab target key??? you can atack anything without select any mob, even range can do that ( i do that with Necro in stress test).

you must see youtube videos about dynamic events and read some stuff....

FACTS? you dont know anything about game but you can say that are facts??? looool.

Definitely the most important fact here, if he hasn't played, there's no reason to say as fact how the game plays.

Originally posted by Master10K

 

The beta of SWTOR was overwhelmingly positive for the majority of those who played it, present company included.  The "WoW in space" complaints had begun long before anyone got into beta, as they were the result of Bioware's claims that they weren't going to depart from the WoW formula.  

Other notable "postive" betas:  Warhammer and Age of Conan.  I'm not saying that GW2 is going to end up like any of those three games, btw.  I'm just commenting that positive reviews from betas are pretty commonplace, even for games that don't do well live.

Yeah, I remember that SW:TOR beta. It was when everyone was boosted to level 50 and was able to try out the endgame PvP and Ilum. Remember that.

What does this have to do with anything? The question was wasn't feedback bad during TOR's beta? He's correct that it wasn't. BTW I thought it was a good thing that ANet was holding back things such as Asura and Sylvari areas, you know so they're fresh for launch?

Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

Originally posted by bishbosh

Originally posted by xposeidon

Yeah it's not that awesome, that's why most people that were in last beta are eager to play again. Thanks for enlightening us.

just like swtor

 

wasnt the beta of swtor where everyone trashed it and thats where the wow in space thing came from?

cuz ive heard alot more people say the beta of gw2 is good then i have bad

 

"WOW in space"  came as soon as the game was announced and got worse once people saw the art direction. On top of that we're only hearing from those willing enough to pre-purchase the game, they're already sold on the game.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Sora2810

The fantasy MMO genre has become a corporate adventure. When stock holders become less important than end-users, we won't see anything 'breaking norm' for a while. Unless you want to drop the AAA and head with indie developers. That tends to be your best bet. 

NCsoft can really capitalize now by bring ArcheAge to NA/EU. That would fit your vague description of a AAA polished sandbox.

Archeage is being developed and published by XL Games.

The games that NCsoft is publishing in the near future are Blade & Soul made by Team Bloodlust and Guild Wars 2 made by Arenanet.

There was a rumor that Ncsoft was picking up AA to bring it to NA, with some evidence to back it up.

Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

also there is EVE online.

one of the most successful MMOs, and considered by most to be what you would probably refer to as a "sandbox" game.

ONE which had a really rough start and took years of hobbiest support to reach the pinnacle point of it's success. People always seem to forget Eve's beginnings weren't all that different than something like Darkfall. If EVE was facing this same crowd/atmosphere back in the early 00's it wouldn't be where it's at today.

Originally posted by Amaranthar

 

Understood. If there's one thing that's seems to be coming clear, it's that these companies do see the problems. But much like politicians, they don't want to give up the core beliefs. In this case, that players play primarily for the "dings" (levels and gear). And that to me is the core, the foundation, of what's wrong. That gets old, because one to another is really all the same. But a game with experiences, now that never gets old. But designing a game with the variety that comes to mind, that requires player interaction. Not PvP, but all sorts of interactions based on trade, knowledge, discovery, community, all this can be in a game if the game only allows the players the freedom to do it, mith minimal content (camparatively speaking). Look to Eve and UO (rares, trade and player contracts, player run events, all the social stuff) for this, as examples, and expand on those lessons. I believe PvP with controls for players (justice system that works) can add a lot to this, but it comes with too much bagage now. I see guild wars as a separate thing that can also be included, or not. And I believe that a great game can be made using only PvE.

As a person who's favorite MMO experience was SWG pre-cu, you can bet I agree with everything you said here. I think many of us who prefer that sort of thing will never grasp what it is that keeps people playing themeparks that do not incorporate these aspects, or this philosophy.  You did a good job of highlighting the main problem we see in those games above the yellow.

Originally posted by Wolfynsong

I don't have any screenshots, unfortunately, but there are some normal greatswords out there.  I had a claymore-style greatsword on my Guardian, and from Wikipedia's average measurement of 47-55" in length, I'd say it was pretty well in-scale too.

It was just a low-level bronze greatsword, as I recall, nothing fancy or anything.

Most weapons are just skins though aren't they?

Originally posted by Amaranthar

 

We'll see how it goes. If it doesn't play like a Sandbox, I say it loses subs too. And that's the point of the general difference in Sandbox/Themepark. It's not black and white, it's general. And it's all about the game play. Players that love Skyrim call it a Sandbox (unless they understand the mechanics), even though it's got the mechanics of a Themepark. It's in how it plays. But there's a big difference in how a SPG and a MMO work with the same mechanics. GWII is similar to Skyrim in how they hope to change up from Themepark, right? (Generally speaking.)

But it's more than just the term Sandbox. It's "worldly", in my mind. Sandbox can be taken to mean the mechanics of interaction, but if you forget the freedom to go where you want to (as in directed game play, not total lack of "leveled" content)....and I'm not sure I'm saying this right....then you end up with Themepark game play.

Don't misunderstand, I understand what you're saying here, I too believe sandbox design lends itself far more to longevity, I really don't think there's any question about that. That's in reference to what we've seen over the years though.

I feel the thing that's really hurting themeparks today is the gated nature of it all, and too much focus on rewarding only those who want to grind for the key to those gates (gear). Replacing that with something more about long term fun may be the answer (for that design), and I think that's what GW2 is trying to do. I'm not sold on the game myself yet. I'm just speaking in terms of trending opinions shared over the last year or so.

Originally posted by Drakxii

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Drakxii

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Amaranthar

 

Sandbox and Themepark are the two general principles. Mudd/Diku. Rails/Freedom. Whatever you want to call it. And of gamers are turning off of Themepark, then they damn well want Sandbox, or nothing. They want something different, and there's only one other thing.

That's a overly black and white way to look at it, what about something in between or a different approach?

For many GW2 is the answer, it's something different but it's also when broken down a basic themepark that handles content differently. This alone debunks your theory.

No it doesn't...  GW2 isn't even out yet.  I saw lots of praise for SWTOR, AOC, Aion, etc... during their open betas as well.  You can't judge how much players like an MMO till atleast a month or two in.

The concept is what I am talking about, it's not a sandbox, but it is something many who are sick and tired of basic themeparks are looking forward to.

And they were looking forward to SWTOR VO and 4th pillar, to AOC actiony combat and mature(boobs) content, Aion's flying and pvp, War's city battles and public quests, etc...  But in the end they were still sick of tired of the basic themeparks and began to look forward to other MMO themepark crap covered in a slightly different sauce. 

So you're saying all these people could only really want a sandbox? There's nothing else possible in design terms that is different enough?

Originally posted by Drakxii

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Amaranthar

 

Sandbox and Themepark are the two general principles. Mudd/Diku. Rails/Freedom. Whatever you want to call it. And of gamers are turning off of Themepark, then they damn well want Sandbox, or nothing. They want something different, and there's only one other thing.

That's a overly black and white way to look at it, what about something in between or a different approach?

For many GW2 is the answer, it's something different but it's also when broken down a basic themepark that handles content differently. This alone debunks your theory.

No it doesn't...  GW2 isn't even out yet.  I saw lots of praise for SWTOR, AOC, Aion, etc... during their open betas as well.  You can't judge how much players like an MMO till atleast a month or two in.

The concept is what I am talking about, it's not a sandbox, but it is something many who are sick and tired of basic themeparks are looking forward to.