Originally posted by sanosukex

 

swtor is heavily instanced/phased... fact

It's not as heavily instanced now that the population has subsided, still has zones and phases, but heavily zoned compared to what? Is it heavily zoned compared to AOC?, is it heavily zoned compared to CO or STO?

swtor has linear planet design and questing.... fact

Questing is always going to be linear, have you been to hoth? What about Tatt? What about Ilum? Again linear compared to what? Linear means guided, and only guided as in there's no freedom to do anything else. No MMORPG is truly linear, I'm up for further debate on this topic if you are...

swtor gives only a couple of actual skills though talents..... fact

Define this a little? What do you mean by a couple? Also only in reference to actives?

swtor does not have 200 hours of unique content per class.... fact

Bioware never even claimed this was a fact..

swtor dialogue choices do not have major impacts in your overall story and the world around.... fact

You decide whether people live or die who are involved in the story, in any other medium these are considerind major events that impact the overall story. Also learn the difference between marketing and reality, it will reduce the impact of your letdown.

only thing on my list you could argue would be the word "heavily" and whats considered "unique" please explain to me how everything esle is not a fact

That's all that can be argued?

Originally posted by Robokapp

Originally posted by Benjola

Do you enjoy playing with 9 year old panties wearing, hips shaking  girl avatars ?

 

 

is that not allowed or...you dont approve someone else doing it or...

it shouldn't be... and no I don't actually...

Originally posted by Vesavius

 

 

haha sorry, just had to reply to this before I went... using 'they are manga style' as a defence to support they aren't sexualised... Just made me chuckle :D

HAHA, yeah it is quite laugh worthy.

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by cippalippa

Whish they just removed it, it just shows total lack of taste. Koreans can have it if they want it, i won't judge them, but definetly not my taste. Let children stay children.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVRv5u36Huw

They're not children!

 

Lets be honest, they are cosmetically disguised children.

Why on Earth do you want them to show the extra skin so badly? Is it that important to you that their knickers have been covered up?

I mean... is it? What exactly are we arguing over here? The right to see elin panties?

C'mon...  They are fine as they now. Nothing is lost from the game by a few extra pixels on an elin's ass.

 

 

how exactly are they children. western mmo's have fairies are they children too? they have bunny ears for christ sake how more innocent can they be? I'm arguing over the stupidity that some people get offended over pixels in a computer game, its complete madness that something so trivial can offend you.

IN western MMOs fairies typcially have adult bone structure, they look like minature (people/adults), that is not the case here at all, you're comparing apples to oranges.

Elin dont exactly look like humans though. its a manga style character if anything.

Yeah I realize that and manga is full of sexualized teenage girls, as i said in my edit :P.

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by cippalippa

Whish they just removed it, it just shows total lack of taste. Koreans can have it if they want it, i won't judge them, but definetly not my taste. Let children stay children.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVRv5u36Huw

They're not children!

 

Lets be honest, they are cosmetically disguised children.

Why on Earth do you want them to show the extra skin so badly? Is it that important to you that their knickers have been covered up?

I mean... is it? What exactly are we arguing over here? The right to see elin panties?

C'mon...  They are fine as they now. Nothing is lost from the game by a few extra pixels on an elin's ass.

 

 

how exactly are they children. western mmo's have fairies are they children too? they have bunny ears for christ sake how more innocent can they be? I'm arguing over the stupidity that some people get offended over pixels in a computer game, its complete madness that something so trivial can offend you.

IN western MMOs fairies typically have adult bone structure, they look like minature (people/adults), that is not the case here at all, you're comparing apples to oranges.

Anime is full of this type of thing (sexualized teens) which is obviously where they've drawn influence.

Nice might check it out, thanks..

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

I bet I could  get the OP to ragequit SQO.

IS there a charge to play that game btw? SQO? Sounds interesting, the graphics don't bug me all that much.

Originally posted by nerovipus32

He does have a point, every mmo is EZmode these days and there is no effort or sense of achievement.

IF that would have been his point I'd somewhat agree, but it wasn't, the whole purpose of the OP was A: a weak attempt at forum PVP, B: to blame his victims for ruining his game(s).

Originally posted by Zlayer77

Originally posted by corpusc

Originally posted by Zlayer77

Gone are the days when MMOS were about Hurting and stomping on your fellow man. Never again will I be able to log into a new game and find my mailbox full off hate mails. From people saying they hope I die in IRL, or crying about How I ruined their ingame experince.

 

well i guess they just ruined YOURingame experience,...... but not just for a day.... for FOREVER! 

 

so now you're the one crying.

 

don't you just LOVE karma?

 

{mod edit} for the dude saying Unfair PvP.. ruined it and greifers are to blame... Well you are not a true PvPer if you cant take to get griefed, you are just  a poser.. there is no FAIR in WAR.. only in sports.. And PvP should not be Battleground sport were everything is nice and balanced.. just shows you have zero skills and cant adapt to survive.. you need FAIR even play field to stand a chans..

ROFL (almost literally) I never said griefing bothers me, I said it has caused devs to make controlled environments. There's no such thing as a fair or even playfield in world PVP. 

I'd say it's people like you who have ruined everything. Your griefing nature is what has lead devs down this road where every action is a controlled one. Us actual PVPers like competition as well as have respect for our fellow gamers, you're just another wolf trying to prey on the weak, without your type these games would still be open to freedom and choice.

If you wanna know the cause of the effect look in a damn mirror.

Originally posted by Zlayer77

The real sad things though is that all of you who like the game Lack any Sence of vision.. or want anny type of Innovation. You are happy just to have VOs.. and linear progression that is all that is needed for you to fork up money..

For alot of us this isent Enough.. we want other things then VOs and boring kills quest, running RAids over and over.. And if you like Riads, doing quest and levling, Guess what you can do it for free.. or for a one time Fee like GW2. Its lucky for Bioware that there are people like you, makes their jobb easy, they just have to copy paste and they are done.

But dont expect the rest of us to respect anyone of you for playing this game. We dont.. you know all those old cartoons when someone gets played or are made out to be a fool.. They get a lollipop over their head "SUCKER" that is how the reast of us see when we read your posts.. And if you like to be the laughing stock of the Internet.. Go right ahead...

This is the most ridiculous post I have ever read here ( that's saying quite a lot). Do you really think anyone cares if you (or others) respect them? Thanks for the laugh....

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by eddieg50

Swtor than came into my life, like a sweet breeze blowing through your hair on a hot day, It was filled with great star wars story.... 

Were the stories really that great? I didn't think so... I put them below a Clone War cartoon plot really.

If you hate reading to the point voice over made this big a impact on you, because SWTOR dosen't have any more story then other MMO (it just has a lot of VO), then I can only say this is your game.

I found myself grouping and i rarely group in games and darn I WAS ENJOYING IT. Social points how cool was that. 

Really? Social point impacted you THAT deeply? To the point where you grouped when you 'rarely'grouped before in other games?

Wow...

 

I am glad you like SWTOR, but if heavy VO has 'ruined' you I would say, after SWTOR has proved the investment in $$$ it requires isn't worth the return, you won't see many more MMORPGs made this way for a long long time.

Well we still have a few fully voiced MMO's coming up, so considering that TOR isn't the only game that will decide such a future for this genre.

Originally posted by nerovipus32

The story in swtor isn't even that interesting.

Right because this is a fact...

Just a simple thought about teh title, but I don't think this is more broken than the WZ in WAR, you know the one...

If you need a memory refresh, think back to players being frozen in time....

Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn

Originally posted by Axehilt

 

Yup, clear quantifiable disadvantages to longer dungeons paired with unclear advantages to long dungeons has gradually steered things to where they are now.  Much like many of the features/traits of early MMORPGs which players got used (and angry when things changed) to but which were never really good traits of the games.  (Which doesn't say all MMORPG traits that were lost were bad, but in most rose-colored glasses threads 80% of the stuff listed is just bad game design.)

Game design evolution like this is definitely what steers genres, eliminating undesirable traits while adopting succesful ones.

Although I definitely don't feel like CCP is good at game design at all.  So tedious non-gameplay in that game, even down to the advance system (which borders closely to pay2win.)

Instead of making another "Axe-Hilt is wrong, as always..." reply, I'd like to comment on hourly sessions and game design focus.

 

Vanguard designed dungeons so huge you could level from 20 to 30 in the exact same dungeon and still not be done.  They tried to work in casual features which allowed people to pause their dungeon experience or have "save spots". I'm not sure if this ever worked or if it was even implemented, but it was intended.

 

There is no reason you can't log in with a group of friends to go through a 10 level dungeon over the span of a month-- all while sticking together and playing together with the same people.

Designers act like there is no such thing as a save feature or the ability to pause dungeons. And hell...with them all being instanced....WTF?

That certainly does sound like a feature that would work with todays audience. I definitely wouldn't say Axehilt is wrong though, as he's right that these games have went this route because it opens them up to a wider and much more casual demographic.

@Axehilt in some ways I agree, CCP isn't one of the better  "game" designers out there, yet they are one of the best (IMO) at creating something that feels less game like and more life like.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by nariusseldon

I am glad open world dngeons are gone. Camping a boss with 50 other people is NOT fun. Running a dungeon with a group of 5 *is*.

I don´t care if they are instanced or not, size, difficulty and how well they are made are more important to me.

And they have shrinked a lot the last 15 years, together with the diffulty being lowered.

A good dungeon should take a few hours, not 20 minutes no matter if it is instanced or not. I think people focus to much time complaining on instances and miss the point which is that they just ain´t as challenging anymore.

 Essentially the reason dungeons are smaller today than they were 10 years ago, is because they realized designing these games around people who have 2-3 hours a session to play is a lot more profitable than designing them around those who have 15 hours a day to play.

It's basically the same reason everything in the genre is as it is today. Really the only studio that has been able to combine deep gameplay with the casual nature of working professionals is CCP, the real-time based offline leveling is key.

Originally posted by nilden

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by nilden

With no subscription I think more people would be inclinded to check back or play when they feel like it. Since people don't unsubscribe they might get bored and quit for a bit but the door is always freely open... I don't think retention is really an issue at all with that business model.

Why even create an "MMO" if you do not plan to keep people playing for long periods? This thinking makes no sense to me, of course retention matters, the whole point of an MMO is to keep people playing (sub or not), that's the whole point of the genre.

Your right but not having to pay 15$ a month is a huge reason to play the game. I probably wouldn't have played Guild Wars half as much if it had a sub to keep up.

I agree there, the no monthly charge does add some incentive, but the rest lies in the quality of the game as well as community. I think the PVP population will always be healthy, it's PVE I'm not so sure about, for this world structure to work it will need players IMO, even considering the content scales down to just one soloer.

Originally posted by DJJazzy

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by DJJazzy

What's the key to retention? The people you play with.

Yes but if that's all that mattered my TOR guild would still be at 100% retention. We've played together for years (since 03) and love playing together.

Well I agree that the game has to be engaging as well. However, if you take out the social aspect of mmos, they become very poor single player games.

WoW basically turned into an expensive chat room for me the last 6 years I played. I hated the gameplay but really enjoyed the guild and the people I played with. If not for them, I would have stopped playing WoW after a month.

I agree, but I will point out that I couldn't play WOW with my guild :p (that was their pick after SWG). Just couldn't do it.. Heh

Originally posted by Master10K

And yet there are so many subsciption based games out there that fail to retain the majority of their players for a substantial amount of time and they all seem to end up going F2P now.

So? that's what makes many games unfun today, as again there's no point in an MMO that doesn't keep a large chunk of players around for long periods of time. By large I mean a couple thousand per server. These games aren't designed to be played without a constant healthy population.

Originally posted by DJJazzy

What's the key to retention? The people you play with.

Yes but if that's all that mattered my TOR guild would still be at 100% retention. We've played together for years (since 03) and love playing together.