Originally posted by Vannor

Originally posted by Jerkbag

it baffles me that an elder scrolls game with so many fans and followers only has a current hype on this website of 8.20 below games like Path of Exile  and World of Darkness.

Maybe i rate the elder scrolls franchise to highly and have unreasonable expectations i dont know...maybe its to early to give out any sort of info...

What you you guys think?

I think... the only reason it has more than a 6 is because of it's name.

Everything we know about the game and everything that's been shown just looks average. It's riding on the franchise's coat tails from the look of it.

It could prove to be a decent game but it just doesn't look like it so far. Just looks average.

If anything the name has hurt the overall hype of the game, due to expectations that have come with that name. If this wasn't a TES game it would be heralded as the next DAOC right now, more so than CU.

Originally posted by deveilblad

So I was watching the paths trailer today and literally half a second after the video I thought ... well I'm just going to put my campfire next to the first questgiver of the game and EVERYONE will use it and I'll get max lvl in 15 minutes... Am I alone that thought about it ?

 

And I wish Carbine thought about some cap or a way to avoid these kind of exploits with paths.

Is it possible to build right next to a major quest NPC of this sort?  As for them not thinking about it.. Have they discussed building radius at all? In the examples I've seen (SWG, etc) typically you can't build/place within NPC city limits. They could easily implement a similar limitation in WS.

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by jimdandy26

Originally posted by Distopia

While I'd agree the pricing structure has nothing to do with the quality of a game in an overall sense. The service method does control the quality of  the services rendered. What i mean by that is, when MMO's were largely sub based you were able to get everything you may want by simply playing the game. This isn't the case anymore in a lot of areas. I prefer to get my cosmetics and the like from doing something fun within the game, rather than opening up my wallet.

How do you come to that conclusion? WoW and Eq2 both shit all over that idea. Eq2 started with the abysmal quest packs in the store, and then later mounts and such before going f2p, and WoW has sold pets and mounts for quite some time.

I didn't play either of those games more than a week or two; coming from SWG they felt extremely limited. I really don't write about things I have no real experience with, so if that's the case there, it had no bearing on where I was coming from or how I came to my conclusion. (if anything their method solidifies my stance here)

AOC launched with no Cash-shop as did TOR, and a few others. While they weren't great MMO experiences, they were made far worse when they decided to start selling "the cool stuff", rather than offering it as something to earn in game.

Also before the F2P transition didn't SOE (EQ2) separate the Cash-shop servers from regular ones? I thought I read an article on that at one point.

So you're cherry picking the shitty former P2P games who switched to F2P to stave off death? What about Star Trek Online which went from dying under P2P to flourishing under F2P? What about World of Tanks? What about League of Legends? Path of Exile? Entropia Universe? (arguably the balls to the wall hardest game in existence to play completely free but I still managed to do it for a good half year, got pretty far too but once the honeymoon period ended and I didn't find a group of people to play with I just quit) Rift ? Terra? Forsaken World? Dust 514? there are more examples but lets not keep this going all night :3.

What exactly are you arguing here?

My point was that I prefer a game to offer everything I may want through an in-game means. Some F2P's do this as well.

Originally posted by SavageHorizon

Originally posted by ZedTheRock

Originally posted by richarddoyle

So you see quite a few threads talking about the gameplay of ESO, but how do people feel about the art style of the game?

From the screens and videos I've seen, the environments look nice enough but the player models seem kind of meh.

And I don't mean the engine they're using, just the art style, the way the modeled everything.  Also, some of the animations seemed a bit... over the top for an Elder Scrolls game maybe?

No offense but it's a thousand times better then something like Wildstar.  Also the art direction is fine, esoecially considering they are shooting for 200 people being rendered on screen at one time.  Personal opinion but I like how it looks, feels very elder scrolls'y.  My only complaint is they are not including a Dye system for armor.

You have to be blind if you think the animation are good in this game or some of the character models. Let's hope you don't get into beta "everything's fine" is not the type of beta tester this game needs.

Looks like they're coming along in the animation department to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST9D_P0d_Oc

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by jesteralways

these f2p publishers have shit load of "defenders", they slave themselves in f2p games and when someone says something bad about their favorite f2p game they start  their "holy defense". you can't really get a proper argument from slaves, years of slavery has completely wiped their brain of intelligence, all they can say is "this game is f2p, you don't need to spend a dime to play". on the other hand  there are people spending money in game because that game is based on a famous IP, these people don't research about game publisher or the developer. after spending money they go into the piss poor game and start crying "god damn this publisher is worst in the world, i want refund". i don't know which one of these 2 type of people is the worst.

many of us said it when this game was in beta "stay away from PWE games, they are the worst f2p publisher",  but did you people listen? you went ahead  and bought "founder packs", then kept defending the high price in cash shop and finally when they screw you over you start crying. serves you people right. next time do some research before spending money in f2p game. 

Glad I didn't listen, the game is fun. Nope I didn't buy a founderpack, never bought pre-order or something similar for MMORPG's. I did however spend 15 € for Zen for those unlock key's to open Nightmare Lockboxes after playing the game for nearly 3 and half weeks. The rest of the Zen market doesn't intrest me.I thought I would spend about a sub worth each month, but at the moment not sure if I really need those key's, I gain Astral Diamonds just at a much lower pas then turning in some Idols (if lucky) 

Is the game MMORPG fun to me...NOPE, but the game is fun enough for a onlinegame to enjoy for me.

My thoughts exactly, on a personal experience note, I took a survey and won free zen, went in-game looked at the Zen market and didn't see a damn thing I wanted to buy. Considering I can get the stuff I'd want for AD (ID scrolls/Gear), I see no real reason to ever use the Zen market unless I wanna throw Cryptic a bone for being a good boy, which I haven't felt them deserving of that yet, considering the many issues that have popped up since OB.

Originally posted by jimdandy26

Originally posted by Distopia

While I'd agree the pricing structure has nothing to do with the quality of a game in an overall sense. The service method does control the quality of  the services rendered. What i mean by that is, when MMO's were largely sub based you were able to get everything you may want by simply playing the game. This isn't the case anymore in a lot of areas. I prefer to get my cosmetics and the like from doing something fun within the game, rather than opening up my wallet.

How do you come to that conclusion? WoW and Eq2 both shit all over that idea. Eq2 started with the abysmal quest packs in the store, and then later mounts and such before going f2p, and WoW has sold pets and mounts for quite some time.

I didn't play either of those games more than a week or two; coming from SWG they felt extremely limited. I really don't write about things I have no real experience with, so if that's the case there, it had no bearing on where I was coming from or how I came to my conclusion. (if anything their method solidifies my stance here)

AOC launched with no Cash-shop as did TOR, and a few others. While they weren't great MMO experiences, they were made far worse when they decided to start selling "the cool stuff", rather than offering it as something to earn in game.

Also before the F2P transition didn't SOE (EQ2) separate the Cash-shop servers from regular ones? I thought I read an article on that at one point.

Originally posted by Eir_S

 

Maybe not, but my point was it seems to have done substantially better than the P2P garbage that hasn't been able to rise above its competition.  Even the Star Wars IP couldn't save a bad sub game, and paying monthly for crap doesn't make it stink any less.

People who think that a game has to have a sub or it's low quality are just flat out wrong, and hearing it is getting kind of old.

While I'd agree the pricing structure has nothing to do with the quality of a game in an overall sense. The service method does control the quality of  the services rendered. What i mean by that is, when MMO's were largely sub based you were able to get everything you may want by simply playing the game. This isn't the case anymore in a lot of areas. I prefer to get my cosmetics and the like from doing something fun within the game, rather than opening up my wallet.

Originally posted by AwDiddums

Originally posted by Kumapon

The chargeback mechanism exists primarily for consumer protection. Holders of credit cards issued in the United States are afforded reversal rights by Regulation Z of the Truth in Lending Act. United States debit card holders are guaranteed reversal rights by Regulation E of the Electronic Fund Transfer Act. Similar rights extend globally, pursuant to the rules established by the corresponding card association or bank network.

 

A consumer may initiate a chargeback by contacting their issuing bank, and filing a substantiated complaint regarding one or more debit items on their statement. The threat of forced reversal of funds provides merchants with an incentive to provide quality products, helpful customer service, and timely refunds as appropriate.

So as far as PWE is concerned they are full of bullshit.

If you've taken reasonable steps to contact their customer support, noted the time and date of each attempt, printed out copies of correspondence and so on, and not been able to come to a solution that both parties agree upon, that'll be enough for the CC company.

Here in the UK you also have up to 120 days or from the date of purchase to start chargeback proceedings, however it is not a cut and dry deal, if your card issuer or bank finds after issuing you with a full refund (they do this early on in most cases) that the offending company HAD tried to resolve the issues ie fixed exploits,reimbursed lost money etc then they are fully within their rights to grab back that refund from your account, and ofc all relevant punishments will follow.

 

So basically if your going to chargeback, make sure you have a solid reason to do so, it's a system that isn't there because you don't like something, it's there to protect legitimate claims.

 

The only real solid reason is when you have been a victim of false advertisement or fraud. In this case that's a long-shot considering there was no form of fraud committed by Crytpic. Services were rendered with no form of criminal malice. Before it's said, greed (pricing) is a downside to capitalism, it's not a crime.

The answer here is a boycott if you feel wronged, this targets future sales. The answer isn't using loopholes to step out of dealings that have already been delivered on.

http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/62173.html

Looks like it's been a matter of importance for a while now. This topic actually peaked my interest and spawned some google searches on fraudulent charge-backs, which are showing some interesting results (like the above article), as most of the "debate" seems to be focused on protecting the vendor from responses to issues like we're seeing now.

Originally posted by Dahkoht

From the massively thread,

 

http://i.imgur.com/oA6Z8.jpg

 

Apparently some have pointed out STO had this same bug months ago , and yet the Cryptic programmers let it happen in NW also ?

 

Seriously , someone defend this , someone excuse this , someone tell me how in any way this doesn't make NW not up to any even reasonable standards ?

 

 

 

 

What's the purpose here, reporting something or fighting about it? Sounds like the latter to me.

Originally posted by Xepo

Originally posted by ragz45

Originally posted by Grailer

The guys who actually paid money to obtain Zen I feel sorry for them ,  They are helping keep the game afloat.

 

But everyone who benefit from the exploit easily obtained every single item they wanted without paying a single cent or putting much effort into it .

 

Very sad that this bug was able to get into the game unnoticed by Devs for so long .

 

 

No what's sad is I, and several other people, documented this bug and reported it across several different media to CW during the first day of release.  And we were ignored completely.  And then this happened.

  Exactly. This is more the issue and what should make everyone playing and supporting the game sad... nay... angry! Cryptic and PWE has ignored a bug/exploit that was in at least one other game they created. This time it cut into their profits so it was finally addressed, but to be that lazy to use an already confirmed exploited code in another game is very sad. This along with many other ignored bug reports is what people should consider before giving them another dime of hard earned currency!

Not sure what I have to be mad about, this changes nothing about the game in regard to the parts i have played of it. As far as the economy goes I really couldn't care less, in two months the only ones who will be on top of said economy are those who are willing to pay to be there, this would be the case regardless of this exploit. Besides my bottom-line is, this game and those like it aren't designed to be long-term time investments.

Originally posted by Skooma2
This is the kind of thing that keeps people from even trying the game.  Why get excited about a new game when the game doesn't police itself?  Even if they ban the accounts that did the cheating, they all will have dummy/mule accounts holding the filthy lucre.  I don't like walking down the street in high crime neighborhoods; and I don't like playing games with known thieves being allowed to get away with their "crimes."

You realize mule accounts can be uncovered by tracing the activity of an offender right? Whether they take such a step remains to be seen, however, there have been many cases of legit players being banned due to unknowingly accepted trades from those who had exploited currency (in past games). Tracing said activity is the why of such bans.

Originally posted by Baleout
All I want is a level playing field to start this game on but wont be getting that it looks like.

How in the world can you offer a level playing field in a game that allows you to buy currency with RL cash?

Originally posted by bill4747

Originally posted by SupportPlayerMM

Originally posted by bill4747

Originally posted by drantik
Sucks.  I kept thinking that would happen to innocent people using the auction house legitimately. 

All I did was sell some items. I did not buy anything, and we are talking chump change here too.

Curiosity is killing me :) I want to know why.

 

 

check the email you used to setup the account... how could anyone here on mmorpg.com fathomably know why a random person under a different name got banned from a game hosted by a different company on a completely different site.

Still waiting for any actual info from PW.

I posted this here because I though someone might suggest a cause of being banned I did not think of.

Might have something to do with exploited AD, perhaps whoever bought your items used the exploit, and they traced the AD exchange to you. That's my best guess right now anyway.

Originally posted by DanitaKusor

Originally posted by Icewhite

Simple fact is that the general gamer rabblerabble just isn't educated enough on the systems involved to have a valid opinion. Nor will they believe the individuals who might be, because they're certain that everyone at EvilCo who might say so is lying, and if you're another anonymous face on a message board, you're lying too.

Perhaps not, but the general gamer rabblerabble at the ones whose money that is paying for the game so their opinion is the only one that matters in the grand scheme of things, valid or not.

And to answer the OP, I believe the reason you are looking is a combination of two 4-letter words, hope and hype.  We hope that the next game will be as good as the hype so we are willing to accept lower quality products in the hope that the game will get better.  Unfortunately most recent offering have proven to be little more than hype so we are left to hope than the next game along will be better.

 

IMO "Hope and Hype" have nothing to do with playing a game, speaking for myself here of course. I see no reason to continue to play (put up with) things I dislike simply on the belief it may get better. Too many options out there to do be doing that, It's simply a matter of having fun or enjoying the subject matter ( if it's story oriented). Playing a game is more of a here and now type of thing for me.

Originally posted by SupportPlayerMM
If they don't wipe i'll probably walk away and do a charge back on my 50.00$ explaining the situation on how I paid money for things others were allowed to exploit and get for free.

In layman's terms those people stole that currency,  "allowed" is a bit of a stretch. You write as though they'll walk away with impunity as a certainty. At this point anything could happen.

As for the issue at hand, I'd call for a rollback if I thought it would change anything about the nature of F2P economies in general. A rollback would be important if balance was to be expected in such an economy.  It's really not.

I'm not saying this to support PWE's stance on the matter, as I think it's rather low of them to not at least consider the feedback coming in. They shot it down rather quickly.

This may just be an example of why many simply detest PWE's practices.