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All Posts by asdar

All Posts by asdar

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I'm not sure how many of the list I like. Some I do for sure, some I think might be bad for the game.

I've been playing again on an emulated server and it's been great. I was surprised how many people were on and playing.


Originally posted by Neanderthal

Originally posted by Torvaldr   So what does fun, exploration, and adventure mean? Those are really vague subjective assertions. What does a game need to do to meet those aspects?
 

Like I said, it's not my job to figure that out.  Oh I have a vision in mind of my dream game....like about a million other people...but even if I typed all of it out nobody would read it.  To actually give a detailed description of how I would make a game if I could I would have to type out at least 20 pages of explanation and who the heck would even want to read all of that?  It's pointless.

As far as Project Gorgon goes I'll just repeat what I said before.  All I can say is that this game didn't make me feel like I was having adventures, it made me feel like I was doing a lot of boring chores.  I'm not saying it would make everyone feel that way but that's how it made me feel.

I will say this much about how I personally feel about this stuff.  I would honestly prefer a game with no quests at all over a game with tons and tons of tedious chore "quests".  I'm not talking about my dream game here, but I actually feel it would be better to just let players obtain skills by killing mobs or something...anything, other than doing trivial tasks involving fetching odds and ends to take back to a npc.

You want to learn necromancy?  Go kill the king goblin or something and take his necronomicon book or something like that.  No you don't have to report back to a npc afterward.  You got the book, you read it, now you have the necromancy skill.  No you don't have to collect 10 king goblin turds and stir them in a pot with 5 cat eyeballs and 2 shiny rocks.  You killed him, you got the book, you read it,....you now know necromancy, or at least the basics.  Oh and no, you don't have to get permission from a npc before you go kill the king goblin.  He's just out there and if you stumble on to him without ever having heard of him and kill him and take his book....fine that works.  Or maybe another player told you about it.  But you shouldn't have to be told to do anything by a npc before you can actually do it.  You shouldn't have to go around collecting a list of friggen chores to add to your to-do list.

Just put stuff in the world and let people find it.  And let them use it when they find it without having to jump through a bunch of silly hoops.  It might not be ideal but it would be a better way of doing things in my opinion. 


I really like what you said here Neanderthal. I almost totally agree. My only nitpick would be that I like putting things together. Like if I went and killed the Goblin King and got the book I wouldn't mind having to be taught to read the book or some such. I don't want to be given the task of finding the book and then killing the king, I want to receive the book as a drop then figure out what I need to in order to read it and learn Necromancy.


I guess what I'm saying is that I like what you said, but I also like some more complexity. I like things dropping what they drop without being assigned the task. I don't need that drop to be an instant reward all the time, but I don't want it to be conditional either.

A lot of players were PVE, hit 50, max skills done.

If it was just like EQ I'd be ok with it, but the important part is to make death meaningful.

I favor big XP loss if you don't get to the body, but not gear loss. I wouldn't make it days of loss, EQ, even at 50 was a few hours loss.

I thought the gear was where EQ crossed the line especially at max level. I'd be happy if it was the same as original but I can't see a game ever having gear loss. Maybe a FFA loot game where gear doesn't mean as much.

 


Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by asdar Crowdfunding is the BEST thing to ever happen to gaming. The very best because it allows the consumer to guide the direction MMO's will take. I can guide the direction by funding those projects that say they're going to try to make what I want. Too many people want to be protected in this world. If someone rips me off, then I certainly won't invest in them again and if it happens too many times then I won't fund anything. Even if the latter happened I'd think it was a great thing. I like to gamble a bit, I usually take $200 and play with it until I run out. I don't go over my limit, I don't feel bad about losing that $200 because it's the cost of gambling. I see this as the same thing. I'm willing to gamble and if I lose I went in prepared to lose. Instead of the negatives I'd like to take a look at the positives. I'll use Star Citizen as an example because they're the king of funding. I've always wanted a game that had space battles, space boarding, FPS, trading and land based game play. Now I get to gamble on this game. I can send a real monetary message to devs that this is the kind of game I want. If I win my gamble I get something I've really wanted for a long time. If I lose, I lose less money than I spend on a single Xbox game that I'm not all that happy with. If you're not a responsible person don't gamble either with funding or at the tables. I am a responsible person and don't need or want your protection.  
To me, crowdfunding is way to get something funded that can't funded through the normal channels. It also means, not really having to make a product to get the money - just say "OOPS SORRY!' and walk away.

 

 

If the game is funded through normal channels, the developer has development milestones they have to meet or the people funding it, can pull the plug. With crowdfunding there is no checks and balance system like that. They can really just take the money and run. I will be amazed if Start Citizen ever comes out - all they seem to be doing is putting out more ships to make more money.

 

I would rather flush the money down the toilet.


 

 

I'd say the easiest method of flushing your money is to spend it on another game that SoE backs or another crappy WoW expansion.

I won't tell you how to spend your money, and I don't need your two cents on how to spend mine.

[mod edit] For the first time in this genre we get to back the games we want. There are milestones in every drive I've seen.

Do you think if an established investor pulls out they get their money back?

 

You're all just locked into your stand toe to toe thinking.

You have to step out of the box for a bit. FPS games would be a good way to look at it, but with a depth because of magic and the arc path of arrows. It was clearly the good part of Darkfall combat.

All the time people want more aim in MMO's but with melee it becomes all snipers and that ruins the combat.

I'm going to use Darkfall as a starting point, but not the PvP part, just the Archery and Magic mechanic for Combat only. The rest of the game design could be whatever flavor from Sand to park that devs do. I'm just talking about a way to make combat more fun.


If you played DF long enough to get used to the controls you know what I'm talking about, the archery and the magic in that game were pretty awesome. There was just a bit of arc to arrows, and being a RL archer it looked pretty real. Magic was straight line, but not instantaneous. It was like watching your brother shoot a BB gun and you could see the BB coming but it was just a little too fast to dodge.


I'd love to see a game that was all that, magic casting and archery.


There is no melee system I've seen that's good in the same way. It's all either bunny hopping or tanking. I don't like the frantic circle kite that decent action combat has, or the button taunt that draws mobs like a magnet.


The only melee I'd have is something like a knife attack at close range, so there was some reason to pay attention. I wouldn't have a class that had it, I'd just give the casters and archers the ability to knife and make it a decent attack so it wasn't just standing at distance.


Stealth would be realistic stealth so no names, you'd better watch that bush line.


Healers would have to target to heal, I like the idea of direct magic heals that you aim and AE potions that you fling. (think of a healing grenade look where you might see an arc when you equip it)

Whether PvE or PvP I think it was the best part of DF and could be the heart of a great combat system. I've seen games that went the other way, all melee and no magic and they try things like special attacks and it never works well. But I've never seen them go what I think is the right way and do ranged only. (unless you think FPS is like that)

Crowdfunding is the BEST thing to ever happen to gaming. The very best because it allows the consumer to guide the direction MMO's will take. I can guide the direction by funding those projects that say they're going to try to make what I want.


Too many people want to be protected in this world. If someone rips me off, then I certainly won't invest in them again and if it happens too many times then I won't fund anything. Even if the latter happened I'd think it was a great thing.


I like to gamble a bit, I usually take $200 and play with it until I run out. I don't go over my limit, I don't feel bad about losing that $200 because it's the cost of gambling. I see this as the same thing. I'm willing to gamble and if I lose I went in prepared to lose.


Instead of the negatives I'd like to take a look at the positives. I'll use Star Citizen as an example because they're the king of funding. I've always wanted a game that had space battles, space boarding, FPS, trading and land based game play. Now I get to gamble on this game. I can send a real monetary message to devs that this is the kind of game I want. If I win my gamble I get something I've really wanted for a long time. If I lose, I lose less money than I spend on a single Xbox game that I'm not all that happy with.


If you're not a responsible person don't gamble either with funding or at the tables. I am a responsible person and don't need or want your protection.

I'm trying to list things that just aren't in other games. I know some of my list probably have similar things in other games, and that some of the features in my list aren't liked by the masses.

List your own or criticize my list.

1. Low level challenge
2. meditate - looking at the book/sitting down
3. Death penalty 1 - XP loss
4. Death penalty 2 - gear loss
5. Quests are received by talking, not glowing icons
6. Open world dungeons, not instanced
7. complete heal (HP multiplier/chain heals)
8. Feign Death - To split mobs/pull
9. Feign Death - to stop aggro
10. Runners at near death/fear aggro, mob group attack (train to zone)
11. Wizard/Druid Teleport
12. SoW
13. Mez/charm, and breaking mez/charm
14. BIG Quests
15. grinding mobs instead of quest hub
16. kiting classes
17. Fear as suicide technique
18. Trains
19. Intentional Trains
20. Ruthless AI (I summon thee!) Death


Originally posted by hfztt

Originally posted by DocBrody  Can´t wait until it reaches 100 million $ of pledges, the console-only fans, publisher agents and other game advertisers who don´t want to see SC succeed will probably implode with rage.
After the project started subcontracting other development studios, there is no real basis for saying that this is being produced without a publisher. RSI is a de facto publisher on this.

So I think other publishers actually want it to succed, as thus the door would be open for other publishers to copy the concept.



I think the reason people say it's being produced without a publisher is because production without a publisher means that RSI makes their own choices, and that much is still true as far as I know.

It's no different than just hiring the programmers, probably better as each group will have their own existing structures without extra work.

The important part of the statement is about control of the project and the same person that started the project still has total control both of the vision and the money.


Originally posted by Pepeq

Originally posted by asdar I started from a place where I loved PvP. I wanted PvP everything, but now I'm of the opinion that PvP and PvE should be strictly segregated. The only crossover should be arena style or consensual duels. Open PvP has problems that I think even pure PvP can see. 1 out of 5 fights are fair, and that's generous. I don't want to fight 10 against 1 if I'm on the 10 side ever. That's just not fun for me. The people that like to fight that way are not usually nice people. Internet people aren't all that nice to begin with and this just draws out the worst of that lot. I'd call unfair fights zerg, but the real zerg comes into play if there's something to win in the consensual zone, such as a keep or castle. At that point you see a 600+ person guild strutting around. The Best you can hope for is spontaneous large combat that's a good fight. When it happens it's awesome, but it's so rare that I don't like the down side. Better to have a 32 v 32 arena style game where you get large, but it's a good fight. I don't think it brings anything good to PvE, it hogs resources and sets up confrontation that PvE people don't generally like.
You could literally say the same things about open world PVP and instanced PVP (Arenas/Battlegrounds/Etc).
 

PVP is not about rules or balance or fairness... never was.  People seem to think that it is.  

 

From day 1, players were ganking other players... it's not a recent phenomena.  People act like it's something that came from the Bush administration.  



GW1 was fair and other arena games are close. Just the same I'd choose to play pure PVE or open full loot PvP but nothing that's a mix.


Originally posted by xpowderx
Considering pve and pve has already been combined and proved quite successful. With old games like Star Wars Galaxies and the king of PVP Dark Age of Camelot. It has been shown that pvp and pve can be combined effectively.

 

To this day DAOC is still best combination of pve and pvp. Many of the current games copied from DAOC. That includes WOW, Rift, and EQII

 

 
 

 

 


Well, you say that, but SWG and DAoC both went under pretty fast.

I liked both games for what they were, and I'm not knocking them, but I played SWG for the PvE and DAoC for the RvR (pvp)

Mixing the PvP and PvE was part of what I didn't like about both.

I hate what you describe because games all but force you to play that way. It's boring and too structured to feel like a real world. To me there should be real quests that mean something and give a special reward.

A good leveling system should be at least a little open. Players want to play in different ways. Give players quests, but leave the open exploration an option. Supposing I go and kill 144 goblins and you do 12 quests that tell you to kill 12 goblins, 12 orcs, 12 rats and so on until both have killed 144 equally tough mobs. To me that would be roughly fair. Instead of over rewarding quests or NOT rewarding quests with XP there should be a balance.

If I want to head over that hill find a dungeon and crawl through that dungeon killing 144 tougher mobs than your 12 guided quests of 144 mobs then I'm all for getting equal XP for both of us even though I had to look and find my challenge while yours was spoon fed.

To me that's 3 different ways to play and I think that'd make people happy.

The last part of what I have to say would be about quests. What you're calling a quest I would call a task or daily or something because it's just too easy. A quest should be a larger undertaking with a specific goal. EQ had famous Epics quests, but they also had class quests and item quests that were amazingly challenging and complex. I think I read that somethig like 20% of EQ quests still haven't been completed.


Keep the tasks, if you want, and let people level that way, but give us back real quests. Plus let us level the way we want without such disadvantage compared to following the trail.

I started from a place where I loved PvP. I wanted PvP everything, but now I'm of the opinion that PvP and PvE should be strictly segregated. The only crossover should be arena style or consensual duels.


Open PvP has problems that I think even pure PvP can see. 1 out of 5 fights are fair, and that's generous. I don't want to fight 10 against 1 if I'm on the 10 side ever. That's just not fun for me. The people that like to fight that way are not usually nice people. Internet people aren't all that nice to begin with and this just draws out the worst of that lot.


I'd call unfair fights zerg, but the real zerg comes into play if there's something to win in the consensual zone, such as a keep or castle. At that point you see a 600+ person guild strutting around.


The Best you can hope for is spontaneous large combat that's a good fight. When it happens it's awesome, but it's so rare that I don't like the down side. Better to have a 32 v 32 arena style game where you get large, but it's a good fight.


I don't think it brings anything good to PvE, it hogs resources and sets up confrontation that PvE people don't generally like.

1. UO - Sandbox/PvP I think definitely influenced gaming, I know Darkfall referenced it.

2. EQ - 3-D MMO/PvE - This has to be on every list to be a valid list. It influenced every other game after it.

3. AO -  Sci-Fi  MMO/factions

4. Lineage korean/siege MMO

5. WoW - Polished game, Quest Hubs

6. DAoC - RvRvR

7. GW1 - Arena, dual class, buy and play pay style, Lack of Level grind

8. Runescape web based MMO/Free to Play model

9. Eve Space based, no limit PvP

10. GW2  ( I couldn't think of a 10th)

I can put up with all the rest of the stuff in this game, but not taking 45 minutes to log in. The first month I was ok with that, it's a new game and all, but it's still going on.

Some days I get online in 5 minutes, then the next time it's a 45 minute slog while I watch that crappy white text highlight across the leaf only to get a "the gods have disconnected you," message.

I have a good computer, latest and greatest mid-level computer. I play with 2 other friends and they have the same problems and one has the highest gear.

I've set up internet checks to see if it's my internet, but my net is fine throughout launching, it's just AA that's the problem.


Originally posted by Nanfoodle
I agree combat is not the direction most EQ fans would ask for but I think EQN is far from Dying. Game gets announced and people go nuts and forums get tones of activity. Few months later the time frame of release date sets in and the same people go look at games out or coming out sooner. You watch, as soon as open beta comes close all EQN forums will again be highly active. 

P.S. As for the game looking bad in play and combat. If you dont know what Alpha is you really need to read up. I have seen Alpha footage of combat before and EQNs looks good for being in Alpha. Does it still need work? Yes its Alpha lol


Well said even if you're on the opposite side of the discussion from me. It's rare to see someone willing to discuss things civilly.


I'm not new to MMO's, I was there at the start of them. My post wasn't based an a few months and then some knee jerk reaction.


It's been more than 18 months since the announcement and it was clear that they were working on the game for some time before that announcement. Even so, my post wasn't based on the 18 months. 18 months isn't a long time for dev before Alpha or Beta.


My post was based on the fact that the population of Landmark is fizzling out. Maybe that's my impression only, but based on real experience. Even that wouldn't be enough for me to think maybe the game is dying. The rest is the fact that the forums are dead, and totally void of meaningful discussion. Both the Landmark and EQN forums.


The community Dev leader left the game because of difference of opinion, and that's not a good sign and other high profile devs have been shifted around.


Then the last bit for me was Titan closing down, which doesn't mean a thing, Blizzard would be stupid to undercut their own success. Better to hold onto new game concepts until you're not making a gazillion dollars on subscription.


The last part of your post I would disagree with. I've seen Alpha footage before, it's often clunky and animations often are just awful. The mobs aren't necessarily balanced for combat and speeds are not final. EQN combat was fluid, but the skills it has are clearly jump into the middle of a group of enemies and spin skills.

They've shown live footage of PvP combat even and that doesn't look good. I've talked to people since I posted this that said the combat was fun, but not one of them would say the combat is deep. Maybe that's something that's coming, I'm certainly willing to wait for it.

Like I said, if the game releases, even if it doesn't look like what I want then I'm going to try it. It's got too many brand new concept features that look GREAT!

I'm not complaining or bashing any game, I'm just curious.

I see people that think it should take 10 yrs which just seems ridiculous to me, but 1 year is just as crazy.

Darkfall took 8 years or so, and people constantly complained that it had 8 yr old graphics which seems to be what would always be the case graphics being the carrier by which the game is built.

I'm coming down around 3 yrs based on watching development. anything longer than 3 yrs and the game seems to whither anything shorter and the game has problems.

I'd especially like to hear from someone who has actually been a part of a dev team on a real game.

I totally agree with the OP, except about Vanguard. It was old school and failed, and hurt the whole MMO market.

I don't ever dislike Devs, but the Vanguard devs I have some hatred for. That was the chance to turn MMO's in a good direction and they trashed the whole concept.

Eventually the game was OK, that's the one time I think SoE did something good for a game, but you can't go back and fixing it then was too late. Even VG wasn't the game I wanted.


I think CU is looking to re-make the good MMO, but that games going to be almost purely RvR or crafter sandbox type game.


I did every mob, every dungeon in EQ right up until I quit after the Luclin expansion and I never camped for even a few hours. The horror stories you hear about camping were people driven to complete quests or people that didn't want to explore because they might die, not the core people that played the game.

Just stirring up trouble here, and wondering what other people see as the best and worst parts of what we think this game will be.

My order for good things:
1. NO quest hubs
2. Crafted most everything
3. I like this style, vikings/brits/tuatha
4. 3 faction RvR, and I think hard lines so they can't convert
5. water and boats (I think)
6. Semi-Regular weapons, not the 10ft long kind.
7. Characters I've seen are spot on what I like. Not Cartoon, but they're not trying to hit 100% realism which usually leaves me thinking how bad it looks.
8. Subscription (Yea!)

My Bad things
1. August will likely be the first chance I get to play
2. I'm not really a PvP fan right now. I have been in the past and by Aug I might be again.
3. No Free to Play might limit population (I'm a subscription fan, but this will be a test of how many will still pay that way)

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