Im press Im pretty good at saying what I can without breaking NDA , its how I keep a reputation.

but a buffing/melee vs an aoe debuffer is not going to be as good in melee as a melee class with no buffs.

kinda like how a daoc warrior will eat a valkery or a skalds face off. overall they are all 3 equally ballanced, but for the job of melee one is clearly more dominant because he has no other skills

Your ranking was a bit off. Swordmaster chews all of those guys faces off.

As for the person who said "anyone with real pvp experience will join the bandwagon"

what games have you played????

UO the underdogs were more powerful

DAoC the mids were the underdog and the most powerful

RF online the underdog was most powerful

and eventhough wow wasnt a pvp game, the horde whooped up on alliance in the beginning of the game before gear progression became a factor.

the underdog ALWAYS wins because you get more experience in how to fight when you are out numbered. you alwo gain points FASTER because you have more fights to get in.

most of the old midgard 8v8 gank groups already have said they were going to play whatever side was the underdog for that very reason.

are you guys picking sides based off looks or based  off class description?

like witch elf is not a wow rogue, its a daoc shadowzerker spec or a midgard savage.

Chaos warrior may wear armor but its half caster.. so its more like a ret pladin since you have to debuff many people to be effective. A swordmaster would eat him for breakfast.... but dosent "LOOK" as cool.

you have to think about class ballance, which is something mythic is famous for. SO even if you havent played the game u can use common sense. the more things you can do, the less effective you will be at each of them to preserve balance.  So you have 3 tanks lets say... Swordmaster, Ironbreaker and Chosen. Chosen has aoe debuffs, ironbreaker buffs himself and his oathfriend and swordmaster just swings a sword.... who do you think is going to be the better at melee? you should be able to rank them 1 2 3 if you are thinking rationally and not be looks.

Dark elves already are the most played. just read all the comments about how many witch elves are all over the place. the diciple of khaine is what all wow paladins wanted to be, a little bit of healing with a whole lot of offense and the best caster class is the sorc.. so its just gonna be hawt goth chicks running all over your server.

Little kids will want to play little goblins , dwarves are not cartoonish enough for them to like.

Order is the daoc equivilant of DAoC midgard... not wow's alliance.

Im playing order just because they are the underdog. I will miss playing my diciple of khaine but I will love being a rune priest fighting 6 vs 24 type odds and gaining extra points.

since order if going to be outnumbered you guys do know they will put in a system thats gonna give you extra points and xp for playing on an underdog like they did in daoc right? all of us order players are gonna be level 50 in a month

order is the underdog. the underdog in every game always winds up being better in pvp... this is a pvp game... I will play order to be better in pvp and be better than everyone else.

also... order has the best tank, order has the best supporting healer

those are the only 2 things that matter, every other class in a game is insigniffigant

competition made daoc what it was.

you felt like you were trying to be #1

no other game has come close to it. there is also the novelty of a 3 way war

Having played the game in all versions including the current. Gear dosent matter, hell level hardly matters sometimes.

I will show you guys a video when NDA drops. A moron in good gear mashing 1 button (ala warrior mashing mortal strike) getting flattened by a runepriest in basics.

you can earn 40% of your stats by gear or whatever... but 100% of your stats dont = your damage.
There are too many buttons to push in this game for gear to be the rule all factor like it was in wow.

and kids, eventually there will be a stat cap at the endgame.... its MYTHIC they balance EVERYTHING

I am currently talking with the guys at "Why so serious" (they have a post on this board), and am prob going to toss my guild in with his..

my group never uses voice chat... never will. As I always say, I have no desire to talk to other dudes it ruins my focus on casting fireballs.

I would suggest rollin with us but we are not 10hr a day types since my group are all in our 30's. But just to be clear.... my group will have "cuts". if your not good enough or not efficent enough... you better have some really funny jokes or your not coming back to the group.

But I am thinking if we can get a bunch of people from this website to form a team it would be a blast.

Heres one thing I want you guys to keep in mind when comparing DAOC vs WoW players with UO players mixed  in.

WoW is a very easy mmo based off high twitch low strategy high fun playstyle.  so most of its fans started playing as young as 13 and would be 16 now.

DAoC is a HARD mmo based off low twitch and high strategy and was not a very high on fun game. The difficulty of the game at the time made for an average age of 25 thus making them 31 now.

UO players would be 35 now

So you may not see it in the overall score when the game starts because obviously the 17 year old is going to score more total points than the 31 and 35 year old.

I know Im an old fogy and wont be able to pour in 14 hour days like I did when I was in daoc now that I am an adult.

I spoke about this on another thread already.. and it was posted on another board.

In instances... dispite daoc not having instanced pvp.. daoc players are usually scoring higher.

another trend people are noticing?

More wow players are playing the physical damage dealing classes and daoc "groups" are healers and tanks......

Im guessing this is because of the dynamics of what worked in each game people are trying to duplicate that success in the new game. But rumor has it that the top scorers are already daoc vets, lets see how it is when open beta lifts. I could go into more specifics of what I actually see in beta but it would fall under NDA.

I just love watching these google video clips of 8 man daoc elite groups killing 30 and 40 people.... before toa.
So just think about it, with equal gear and equal level you are killing 3-5 times as many other players at the same time... because your simply a better group of players.

guilds like bedlam even rerolled to other realms and player opposite classes and climbed BACK to the top again..... you never saw guilds on wow reroll. It was not a game noted for player skill. war is SO different from wow I dont see the wow players as being any type of threat.
So far in beta the wow players are actually not liking war and are falling behind in point totals in pvp combat... and usually its someone who used to play daoc who are the top in points according to what they are saying on other sites.

Actually the top guilds in the height of every pvp games time was always a small guild.

EVERYONE thats played DAoC knows who BADLAM is.
That core group was 5 people.
FIVE

My Guild was ranked number one overall. We had nightly zergs of 40 members and ran our alliance... but when we looked at the daily and weekly totals, out 300 man guild was getting out earned in points by bedlam every week.

In WoW the top guilds are now the smaller groups/guilds that have formed as a result of the arena system. but wow isnt a pvp game at all so lets not count it.

UO was also about small packs of PK'er teams formed into a "clan"

Call of Duty 4 best teams are small... and thats a shooter... but its more of a team based pvp game than WOW is... so I will throw it in as well.

you also have to remember. the main portion of people playing this game will have come from daoc. In DAoC, eventhough the game was based around large groups we all had the mentality of making small elitist  groups.

Originally posted by Gynthazi

 

Hi Kraiden,

I'm not sure why you're even posting here as the thread is about large guilds and their impact on Warhammer online, not about 30 member guilds or about Divinity. Maybe you should post in the Divinity guild recruitment if thats a discussion youd like to have? or possibly PM anyone you'd like to talk to in Divinity i'm sure they'd love to have a nice conversation with you.

To the rest of the community:

This is an interesting topic and discussion going on here, and I think it’s very healthy for the community to talk about!

Well greetings to you fellow gamer!

Well, food for thought is the point of my post. bigger isnt always better. I have been around long enough on the mmorpg scene to see this happen over and over again. So I just posted from my experience. DAOC was created for large rvr as well. The keep structure is the same keep structure and the grouping size was actually larger...... and it still turned into elites finding eachother

UO actually became a FUN game, when us elite players started player killing the "carebears"

And even wow... the game that encouraged you to steamroll over computer controlled dragons for game progression .... eventually became a place where smaller groups began to excel.

So I dont think overly large guilds will have any major impact on the game, as I think in any competitive game you cant find a way for the players who are elite from breaking off.

The game also has a feature of alliances just like DAOC did. so smaller guilds will band together and do things. DAoC in the end wasnt about how well your GUILD was run, but how well one leader got all of the elite groups to work together inside of the alliance.

I feel the same will happen in WAR

I think I will fold my guild into yours. We are all former gamer geeks who are now husbands and fathers, but still know and thirst to kick A and talk smack to emo teenagers.

We are a rather rowdy bunch. But even in a carebear game like wow we found our niche.
My group actually DOES have a class restriction. so I guess if we fold 6 heavy melee and 2 Healing healers (no our healers dont think they are "uber l33t nuker makinez"

All of us are North East (nyc area) players and play primetime...... or when our wives/girlfriends let us.

we plan on playing on a large server so we can be totally outnumbered by Emo teens and wanna-be goth punks.... the more outnumbered we are the more points we earn and the cooler we all look right?

ya get in contact with me, so we can hang. Im in closed beta now.

Hasani

 

What you don't get is that we have about 50 members in closed beta. And well over 100 of us going into Open Beta along with Headstart. Are guild master has been in CB for like a year and know everything about this game. I really don't think you can have more of an advantage as a guild as we at divinity do. Most of you people are crazy thinking your getting anything done with less then 50 people in this game. To take a keep you probably need around 100-200 people.  WAR is ment to have huge guilds that battle each other. Personally i think it will improve the gameplay vastly.

OK.
Im old... like REALLY old.
I am not  a young gamer and I do not have uber skills and I am too old to play 30 hours of gaming a week.

In saying this I am placing an open challenge to  "divinity" as a guild.
My guild will have a higher points per player average than your guild by the end of year two of this game.

This is a friendly throwing down of the gauntlet and done with much love.

I have free CE of this game but wont be playing head start. My guild will never be more than 30 people... ever. I plan to have ONE main group and 11 active day to day players. I have been in CB and was even in ALPHA and the quests and classes are not even the same as they were six WEEKS ago, much less 12 months ago so thats not much of an advantage.

Hasani

AKA Bishopx "pvp healer"

There is no such thing as large "elite" guilds.
And there is no such thing as dominant large guilds in competitive games.

I will repeat... NO SUCH THING.

it goes against male nature, and these games are made up of mostly males.

Being elite means a small group of highly skilled indivituals. YOu cant be elite having open applications and welcome to all classes. THATS NOT ELITE.

And any guild that is actually large and has good players? Same thing that happens in every game. the best players.... we ALWAYS find eachother. Then we ALWAYS form the best groups comprised of the classes that have the best synergy and we roll over countless amounts of normal players.

this causes people in our guild to resent us because we dont include them in our dominance. But if we included you.... we wouldnt be elite and it would slow down our process.

This divide usually causes us to break off into our own guild. Once the elite break off there will always be a group that leaves as copycats to try and do the same thing by themselves. Losing this many quality players makes most guilds fold.

Hell, even in the description it says what I just did.

"the guild that formed after retribution broke up"

Wow was filled with large guilds until making smaller elite teams of 10 people was better for arena and raiding progress.

DAoC was dominated by zerg guilds in the beginng. I was in the #1 ranked guild from opening of the game until the 2nd year. We had 200 ACTIVE members. and everyone of us LOVED to zerg. this guild fell apart when the best players realised we could earn more points/money/respect by playing with better players in smaller groups.

same thing will happen in war, its human nature.

I wonder if I am allowed to tell the readers that they have polished the game to new heights for open beta and have totally new chipsets and the game looks twice as good now as it did last week.

You guys are in for a very nice treat, this game is NOTHING like what you saw last year and at con's

thats as much as I can say without breaking NDA according to what my letter says.
I have a video on the ironbreaker when NDA drops for you guys.
Since order is the underdog Im going to be playing there and making videos of the classes that I am playing.

I played DAoC since a month or so after launch. I heard about it thru word of mouth and didnt want to
"get sucked in to a game like evercrack"

So..... I lost the job I had around the time I started playing, and thats all she wrote from there!

Total 15 hour a day addiction to the game for 4 years.

I left because everyone seemed mad at daoc for changing the maps and making the land mass ballanced so they all went to wow. So I followed the masses. Even at its height I had better days in DAoC than any in wow, but the thought of playing back in camelot with nobody there wasnt appealing.

spoke with a buddy of mine who used to be on the mythic team a few hours ago.

They said

"didnt you play a zerker in daoc"

my answer "yes"

"dont you remember how many nerfs you got"

my answer yes

"well there you go, it would be bad for the progressioon of the game to bring out and then nerf"

Im gonna hold off on the rest of the conversation because it involved alot of 4 letter words from me.
I have to say the mythic is the most meticulous gaming ballance team in any game I have ever played. I trust their LONG TERM decision making ability fully.

Heres the GOOD part of having the classes cut.
Now there is a REASON to choose a side. DAOC you choose your side based on playstyle... now you choose your side based on army stregnth.

Destruction has no offensive 2handed tanks! this is why Im playing order now and loading up on swordmasters in my guild... my main pvp group will be me healing 4 swordmasters with another healer.

Order has no aoe debuffer like the chaos warrior is. The chaos warrior also doubles as a anti magic tank, thus giving Destruction TWO anti magic melee in a game with more casters than melee.

make your choices on playstyle... and see you on the battlefield.

Hasani

everyone isnt elitist in mmo's ....

just stop trying to group with us elites then.

I always wonder why non elites want to try and join  up with the elites... cuz then that makes us not elite.
In daoc we had this Thane (part melee, with a shield and aoe magic spells so wasnt good at anything) try to join my group CONSTANTLY. He kept talking about how good he was and how much skill if we would just let him in.  I told him once I would let him run with us, he just needed to recped to 2handed weapon and kill casters insted of  trying to be a wanna be tank... he refused. Wrong class and wrong spec but wants to run with the elites? ya I don tthink so.

After the announcement yesterday the demand for perfect groups is going to be higher. Now you have 4 lesss melee tanks in the game. This finalizes my decision to play order. My guild mates are going to play swordmasters of Hoeth and they are just going to have to like it since there is no hammerer.

2 runepriest, 3 2handed swordmasters of Hoeth and 1 Ironbreaker wit a shield, with the alternate person playing a runepriest or an arch mage. Elves and dwarves in my group only.

No tanking with 2 handers, no nukers, no aoe, and no hybrids. we'll see you on the battlefield.