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All Posts by Antarious

All Posts by Antarious

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Originally posted by Jjix

I remember during the first year of DAoC I joined the VN forums and  wrote, "what the **** are you guys talking about? This is one of the greatest games ever made in the history of . . . well, in the history of the world." I was laughed right out of the forum as a complete newb who knew nothing about gaming and its history. Now I look back and feel like I didn't make such a bad call. 

Oh I think that DAoC was one of the greatest and certainly the greatest for the way it did RvR...

 

However, it was also a big neon sign for how the customers and lack of action by the company were going to destroy it and every other MMO.

 

Oh why is that?  Radar....   I remember when it first came out someone said something about Odin's Eye in guild chat.   I was such a noob I thought they were talking about Midgard cuz we all RvR'd in that frontier at the time (not emain).   I don't even remember the server name but I remember the guild was Crusaders of Honor (I mean CoH lol.. coh was announced already at that time of course).

 

Anyway I quit and came back a bit after Nimue (rp server) opened.   When we started having bg's that's when I knew what odin's eye was.  (because of the sheer volume of people using it and skilla etc etc).   Mythic did nothing....

 

Hell they gave a free lifetime account to the guy that found the hole in the zone wall and went into albion griefing people out in Salisbury plains... then did finally at some point end up perma banning him for exploiting.   However, they did nothing about radar until November of 2004... right between the launches of EQ2 and WoW.

 

To me the combined action of players so obviously happy to cheat and companies lack of action in banning... defined most of the player mentality we run into.

 

Its ok to do all these "bad" things because nothing will happen... it destroyed the communities... it destroyed the player base.. subscriber base etc

 

You see the same crap in RL with the lack of consequences for your actions and the affect its having on the things people escalate into their behavior.

 

/shrugs

 

For games to change much for the better the ToS and Eula need to become legally binding contracts.   We agree to abide by it and the company agrees to enforce it.   You break it.. you get banned.. they don't enforce it.. you get your money back.. all of it.  (no lawsuits just complete refunds).

 

Of course this is just my point of view... but it is the exact reason I solo mostly now.   I do not have any interest in grouping or playing with people I see as trash because they cheat and/or act like it.

What sense would that make?   If an actual person is staying awake 20 hours a day to play... yet their super duper virtual self that can cast fireballs, slay dragons or fly starships around etc... can only manage to stay away 8 to 10?

 

 

If anything my toon should play its self for another 12 hours after I log off.. because its so powerful... <- not serious.

There are two things in the OP I will really comment on... because I see similar statements made and its like everyone has blinders on in regards to today...

 

When DAoC was young... EverQuest was still the largest game in the Western MMO market...   and in that regard we are talking about a game where the bragging right was 450,000'ish concurrent subscriptions.   The reason I bring this up is because for much of this time the MMO market was relatively small and this directly impacts....

 

Open world dungeons....     I have my personal view points on instances and I don't think they are something which should be everywhere.   I do believe they have their uses especially when you want an area to convey the amount of danger it is supposed to have.   Which is one aspect of it because you can think of Avalon City (yes I played Albion most of the time).   During its peak zoning in there would often result in every single camp.. being camped and every single mob being dead.   When you expand the size of the market and end up with servers that have even more people on them... guess what?   This to me is something early games could get away with simply due to market size...

 

Darkness Falls while it was a fun place to um cause people grief or take part in the portal wars when access changed....  Did you ever take part in those keep sieges that were so epic... if you happened to go link dead you couldn't log back in?   Well imagine what would have happened if that many people had ever been in DF....

 

The number of people is something companies are trying to work on to support epic battles.. but I'm not sure how you get around the lack of mobs for people to kill.   Which is one of my biggest issues with "open" content... when something is supposed to be dangerous.. it should not instead convey a feeling of being in the DMV... waiting for your ticket number to be called...

 

 

 

Supposedly the amount of people you would need would depend on what you are trying to do... so I'm not exactly sure there is going to be a "standard" in EQN.    Altho if you always attempt the same type of thing.. I guess you could create a standard.

 

Of course that's just based on some vague comment with an example of Crushbone.. that I saw in one video.    Where they said you won't go into a place like that with just a couple of friends...

Well this is why they keep talking about all the work they are doing to handle it... (they mention all the data they will be pushing in a few video's.)

 

The main problem with a game that can change isn't what the server can handle... its the fact that you don't have a static "map" on your (the users) computer anymore... To some extent you can look to a product like Second Life where every "sim" might be hand made.

 

The result is a lot of bandwidth used on your end because all that changing data has to come to you...  to me in the end that is going to be the biggest "problem" for people with capped bandwidth.   I had a friend up in Canada that was a builder in SL and it used a ton of their monthly allotment due to all the data they had to receive...

As to the one remark I saw about companies with money not making a more targeted game...

 

 

If you look at companies willing to make a niche game you are either going Indie or crowd funding like they are doing with Camelot Unchained.

 

Companies don't have money for most of these projects... they have investors money.   Which in the end is the direct relationship between what gets made and what doesn't...

 

That is why earlier in this thread I was alluding to...  EQ was more popular than UO.   UO pulled up on number after Trammel but that was after EQ had taken a huge lead.   If UO had done better than we would have a more diverse market up until 2004 at least.

 

The thing about my SWG comment was... everyone in the west thought EQ was king with around 450,000 concurrent subscriptions.   So at the release of SWG it was the fastest selling MMO and came close to EQ Numbers... closer than any other western MMO.   That is why there was a lot of positive PR at the time...

 

If that was how the market stayed we would have seen investors willing to fund more diverse projects because the market would have shown that there was money to be made in more than one core game.   When WoW came out in November 2004...  it was in many ways EQ Evolved and obviously that became the only factor about future investment in MMO's (for the most part at least).

 

That's why I said if WoW had only been as successful as SWG ... (or hadn't been made at all).   Its not that WoW was bad exactly... but its numbers were so large that's all investors could think about.   You look at 38 Studio's and think about the fact that Curt Schilling personally lost a reported $50 million of his own money... (along with other investors including Rhode Island having 10's of millions more).   That's not really pocket change to toss around making a niche game... and WoW made other core types "niche" until someone makes a non EQ Clone (WoW was an EQ Clone imho) game that has big numbers.

Originally posted by Bidwood
Originally posted by Antarious
Originally posted by flizzer
I would never play a full open PvP game either and neither would most of the MMO community.  You are delusional if you think otherwise. 

 

After some time to think about it... I believe that the OP and the many post like it are due to the cool-aid.

 

 

You know this guy once upon a time convinced a whole bunch of people to drink the cool-aid.   So its kind of like if someone keeps posting about Full PvP (and why you really want to play it even tho you don't) eventually people will just give in..

 

Tho I would say the simple logic is this...

 

People talk about FFA (or open) worlds and freedom... but that "freedom" only works if you choose to play their way.   Which by any logical thought process would not be relative to freedom.

 

Oddly the "carebears" are entirely open to PvP servers and/or PvP areas that they don't have to go into.. which of course is actually "freedom" because everyone can go play in the place (or server) that meets their playstyle.

 

So using logic once again... trying to force people into a "full open pvp" world... is simply trying to impose your playstyle on someone else aka grief them.

Here we go again...

 

The myths

1. You just want to grief me.

  • This is the self-centered argument of someone who was scarred for life in Ultima Online a decade ago and can’t move on. We actually don’t care if you play the game. In fact, if you dislike full PVP then we hope you don’t play

 

It is definitely a self centered arrogant argument to try and impose something on other people and then blame them for not wanting this "thing" they never wanted. 

 

Here is a fact... there are almost no full PvP games because almost no one plays them in relation to market size.   Even a failed PvE game (with opt in pvp) does better.

 

So where is the arguement even coming from?   There is no full pvp game anybody has asked to be changed into something else... while there ARE plenty of games a certain self centered portion of the community want changed... even tho developers aren't changing them.

 

Nobody that I know of was scarred for life in UO... in fact its the best MMO ever created (in my opinion) and that was certainly before Trammel ever existed or the various versions of murder penalties.   Of course let's avoid the fact that UO would have done much better had Trammel existed at launch and we might have avoided the endless EQ clones that eventually led to WoW... because we'd rather just have these veiled discussions that really revolved around some unskilled persons desire to kill hapless miners and their mules...

 

*edited to add*  When UO added the ability to declare war on other guilds through your guild stone (which they had to consent to).   That evolved into some of the best/wildest fights I've ever seen in a game.   Adding into the fact that you obviously had to consent to PvP when you knew your guild was at war... that you could fight in guard zones (no place was safe unlike the FFA version where the guards 1 shot killed you) ... those are the kinds of systems that could exist in ANY game... and allow people to take part in the play style they like....   that's the logical path... the path that doesn't end up in dead games or games that never happen because nobody is going to invest the 100 Million plus $$'s to make that FFA game.

 

But you know... whatever...

I'll admit I first came to this site because of the NGE....

 

Yet I don't really get a lot of the posts I see on this site.   While I did originally come here raging about something as many were, in a forum that no longer exists.. most of us got over it or at least moved on.

 

[mod edit]

The original post of this thread was flawed and that is putting it nicely.   It really has nothing to do with EQN... at best it would be some kind of "general" rant about SOE with no real logical thought process behind it...

 

Which in a way simply highlights the odd moderation methods this website uses.

This is just my opinion...

 

Binding is used by companies that don't really understand game economy and/or don't have a very good system with or without binding.

 

EQ2 is a game that didn't have Bind on Equip at launch... it was added and the excuse was "to help stimulate the crafter economy" which it of course didn't do.   Why?  well because as with almost every other MMO crafted gear is sub-par to "uber loots".

 

 

The only people that BoP (in WoW as an example) really affects.. are the people who will never get to do certain content.   While the people who can raid... are going to obviously get to the point that the BoP is either sold (to npc) or disenchanted everytime it drops because everyone already has it.   (In EQ2 you can sell "loot rights" as you can join after the fact and loot but that's not really a great system either).

 

If somebody wants a great economy in a game you need something like UO... Meaning crafted is as good as anything.   The gear can be lost somehow and replacing it is not a huge money sink.   Which means your crafters have ongoing sales and your average player isn't going broke replacing their items.... binding will not fix anything if you don't have that and if you DO have that.. then you never need binding.

 

At this point in time you are going to have as much "purpose" in progressing a character in about every MMO out there.   The issue is more likely to be the age of any game you join (aka everyone else has been there done that etc)

 

 

Or at least that is my point of view at the current time... which doesn't mean any of the upcoming games will be better (or worse).   It just often seems to be better to get involved in a new thing so that you progress with everyone else....

 

 

Tho I guess there won't be anything new for quite a few months at the current time...    I'll admit I still play WoW now and then but only to screw around in the bg's... just the same as why I used to still play DAoC.  

 

 

Just killing time until something different comes along... which is also why any sense of "progress" in current games is lost on me.

Originally posted by flizzer
I would never play a full open PvP game either and neither would most of the MMO community.  You are delusional if you think otherwise. 

 

After some time to think about it... I believe that the OP and the many post like it are due to the cool-aid.

 

 

You know this guy once upon a time convinced a whole bunch of people to drink the cool-aid.   So its kind of like if someone keeps posting about Full PvP (and why you really want to play it even tho you don't) eventually people will just give in..

 

Tho I would say the simple logic is this...

 

People talk about FFA (or open) worlds and freedom... but that "freedom" only works if you choose to play their way.   Which by any logical thought process would not be relative to freedom.

 

Oddly the "carebears" are entirely open to PvP servers and/or PvP areas that they don't have to go into.. which of course is actually "freedom" because everyone can go play in the place (or server) that meets their playstyle.

 

So using logic once again... trying to force people into a "full open pvp" world... is simply trying to impose your playstyle on someone else aka grief them.

Round table isn't really doing much of anything.   They toss out a question which seems either relatively pointless, vague or an obvious answer (aka a question about something that should obviously be an option so that the player can choose for them self.)

 

All of it is simply done so that people can state opinions and argue with each other.   There is no real indication that any of it affects development (decisions might have already been made).   So that on a random day they can announce "blah blah blah" and the people that supported that idea will think they were "heard" and everyone else will not...   While the reality is likely that it was already decided and no one was really heard.. they just happened to land on the right ( ? ) side of the decision.

 

So the title of the column seems pretty non relevant...   unless it was simply pointed at large company politics or some such...

 

Round table to me is point blank a distraction so that you won't think about how little information is really out there... how most of Gamescon was a repeat of SOE Live (for information etc) and the fact that Landmark is supposed to launch before the end of the year and here we are at almost Sept and there is no large scale heavy load testing on landmark and all its new features/tools....

 

Sept - Possible release date before Xmas is not a lot of time to have 10's of thousands of people breaking your stuff and giving you a chance to fix it and if Landmark launches ugly it will not give EQN good PR... so that's my opinion it (round table) is just a distraction.

Its kind of Ironic because on some of the official SOE forums and the EQ/EQ2/EQN fansites...

 

They were talking about how Bill Trost was back at SOE and they had hired back a bunch that had left for Trion and 38 Studio's.  I don't really pay attention was just comments I have read and people saying some of the devs were people they didn't want back at SOE...

 

Then I come here and see this thread...

 

As to SOE... it used to be part of the movie division.   afaik now its in the same division as playstation ... which is pretty much actually how it all started because it was originally part of Sony Interactive Studio's America.. which went on to be purely consoles.   Anyway the concept being SOE as it is now would never get the plug pulled unless the playstation online services go away....   As opposed to perhaps some of the less active MMO's being retired as new games come out.

 

As other have stated its vague and they don't say much... as to whether it was actual SOE employees (aka on site) or the contracted workers for a particular project.

Personally in your case I'd just leave it on Auto... The only game I saw you mention by name in your post was TSW (which as far as I know doesn't have any PhysX support.)

 

The only game I've personally ever played that eventually had GPU PhysX was Planetside 2. (It didn't have it at launch.)  Other than that I think I played maybe one game that had any PhysX support at all and it was definitely not gpu level.

Personally if I don't buy it... it won't be due to any of the things in the title.   It would be IF EQ Landmark is actually out before the end or the year (or at least in a beta state that I am in).   Simply because I am more interested in building things on my plot at this point.

 

If EQ Landmark was delayed and ESO came out.. I'd buy it.

I guess...

 

There are some aspects of gaming that are objective and many are subjective.   One major problem is people think their subjective opinion is somehow fact.   Which for them it is... but may not be for anyone else.   So on that point its hard to "debate" the subjective because you can't be wrong or right as long as its applied only to you.

 

The main problem with these forums beyond the trolling is the sheer volume of posts with no logic or anything to back them.

 

/shrugs

 

I love debating things but it doesn't really happen here that often (it does happen sometimes).

Have you ever really wondered how a game that people aren't willing to pay a subscription for... is suddenly making all kinds of money when it goes "free to play."

 

Why are people so eager to spend more than a subscription fee in a cash shop for the same game they didn't want to pay to play before...

Why would anyone think that Sony Online Entertainment wouldn't cross platform their games to Playstation?

 

In some cases there will be separate servers (I believe they mentioned this for Planetside 2 as an example) and in other cases there may not be.  

 

It allows them to bring in more potential customers and is also something that PS4 (etc) will have that Xbox doesn't...  Which may or may not be a positive depending on your view of the particular games.

 

/shrugs

 

I can't see console gamers being any worse than the trolls we have in general chat as it is. 

 

I might even buy a PS4... and I don't like consoles.

Fae...

 

So that I can make a crafter named:   Tinker and I want golden dust to shower down when I flap my wings.

 

Maybe not but I actually liked them in EQ2...  *edit* I probably would have one as an alt actually and I dunno why that's the race I'd pick... I just would.   Likely because the race my "main" will be is already in game... (unless the lion king was just for show and tell that is.)

They likely lose quite a few and not exactly due to the "issues..."

 

This game has another thing working against it... It was already launched and deemed by them to be incomplete and so they relaunch it.   I actually don't think I remember these issues with the original launch... but the fact its a relaunch adds some color.

 

Anyway the reason companies lose customers during a time like this.. is people go to forums to vent.

 

Then genius "fanbois" defend the game with various reasons that just piss off upset people even further and thus... customers are lost.   Which is why to some extent its the fans that kill games...

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