Originally posted by Bunks

Originally posted by holifeet

Originally posted by Zlayer77

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=294210

Lots of other threads but I think this one just shows that the mayority is either leaving.. on the fence or just to blind to see what is going on...

 

So the majority of SWTOR supporters fit on 11 pages of replies to a single thread do they?

The way you put it anyone that says they might leave one day is leaving asap, and anyone that is basing their decision on other games is on the fence umming and aahing. Anyone who wants to leave the game that SWTOR is is blind.

I think that last fact opens my bias up for the whole forum to see.

First it was month one, and some predicted the end of SWTOR. Month one passed and everything is still unknown. Some servers are still busy and people are happily enjoying the game. So now the attention turns to the end of month two.

Are we going to have a 'SWTOR is great' thread from people at the end of every month?

Find something better to do with your time, people. Ignoring trends from hundreds of deleted pages of replies is a sign of denial.

See how logic has to have balance when you try to wield it.

Oh yeah, I see what you've done there. Very funny. Turn the argument on its head to prove that the bashers must be correct. Except for one very important point. The OP did suggest that people not umming and aahing or wanting to leave are blind. He says it very clearly in the starter post.

You're assuming I think that anyone who wants to leave must be blind. I don't think that. Neither do I make continual posts to say that I think SWTOR is amazing. I see the faults with the game as readily as anyone, but I'm enjoying myself because it is good and has great prospect to be even better. I just don't see the point in continually having to make new threads to assert that belief. I will answer those people that make poor attempts to 'prove' that SWTOR is going to flop, such as ascertaining that the majority of players are leaving, thinking about leaving or just blind, and from one linked thread.

I pop in here from time to time and answer the first most deluded thread. If people don't like the game that's great. Go sit in your little room and don't like it. If you have to find reasons to insist the game will flop at the end of every month then do so in the privacy of your own head, or on a guild forums somewhere. If there were constant threads populatiing the front page that stated how great SWTOR was because 12 people answered that they liked it on one thread then I couldn't say this. But there simply isn't an abundance of those fan threads. There's an over abundance of hate threads, and they all say pretty much the same thing.

I am just about to log in to my heavily populated server after having dinner (the reason I was able to come on here and make one of my infrequent posts to argue with idiots). There will be hundreds of people on there enjoying themselves, like I will be. That is a much better measure that the game is a success. Lots and lots of people shouting for groups and running about the game, because it's great.

Originally posted by Zlayer77

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=294210

Lots of other threads but I think this one just shows that the mayority is either leaving.. on the fence or just to blind to see what is going on...

 

So the majority of SWTOR players fit on 11 pages of replies to a single thread do they?

The way you put it anyone that says they might leave one day is leaving asap, and anyone that is basing their decision on other games is on the fence umming and aahing. Anyone who wants to stay and enjoy the great game that SWTOR is is blind.

I think that last fact opens your bias up for the whole forum to see.

First it was month one, and everyone predicted the end of SWTOR. Month one passed and everything is going good. The servers are still busy and people are happily enjoying the game. So now the attention turns to the end of month two.

Are we going to have a 'SWTOR is going to die' thread from people at the end of every month?

Find something better to do with your time, people. Making up trends from a few pages of replies is a sign of madness.

Originally posted by precious328

I left the group and headed over to the nearest Auction House. It was flooded with players - all wearing the same Battlemaster-whatever gear. They all looked the same. They all had the same few speeders. They all had the same little pets. They all had the same titles.

My goodness. This game is honestly the worst MMO I've ever played. It's not a clone of WoW, though. Even a linear game like WoW has MUCH MORE depth than SWTOR. This game is terrible and should not be considered a MMORPG.

Even my guildies agreed that they would be long gone had it not been mildly entertaining playing with friends.

That's funny because I just stood around near the bank on the Imperial Fleet, deciding what piece of armour I wanted to wear, and I was amazed at the differences in clothing. I was looking about to see what looked great and what I might ask about and everyone looked different.

I'll agree there's problems, and there's many a thing I don't like. It is a linear game and the lack of great crafted gear at latter levels is a shame. This is still undoubtedly an MMO though. It's no less linear that Rift and it has far better grouping. WoW isn't linear, and I honestly believe people's lack of tolerance of SWTOR is down to everyone trying to compare the two games. What does it matter if SWTOR is a MMORPG or not a MMORPG? It's a game and should be judged on that regard. Not on whether it lives up the masses need to qualify a game under a genre.

The fact that your friends are still there means they must enjoy it. Regardless of whether it was fun grouping with friends in a game, or not, I would still leave if I didn't enjoy the game. You're trying to make a point there out of one that doesn't exist.

Come on, be honest with yourself and all of us, Precious. You're just posting this because you wanted to hate SWTOR and you wanted to diss on it? True? You went in to the game with predisposition to think of it badly and, surprise surprise, you came out thinking it was bad. You didn't like the game, so why did you think that was going to change? Now you feel you need to tell everyone about it.

Originally posted by 77lolmac77

I want names that people will remember though. Instead of being lore-inspired name #420,024 Id rather have a name that people will see and go "hey, I remeber seeing that guy before" especially in PvP.



I wouldnt roll on an RP server with names like that so I dont see anything wrong with it.

 

I suppose it works in PvP. Speaking from a personal standpoint however, if I see a name like eyesmokeganj then I make a point to try and avoid grouping with that person. I just assume they're a bit of an idiot.

Sorry. It's just that so many times in the past I've found myself in a group with someone named after a statement (often in a comical way) and they've been a complete detriment to the group.

I know it's probably not the truth for all people who follow this naming trend, but it's a stereotype that sticks for me. Quite a few times in SWTOR I've been looking to do a particular heroic quest and seen someone shouting for more people. If they have a terrible name I wait.

Isabelle: Thank you for saying, in an article, what so many of us have been saying for so damn long.

I played one of the last beta weekends for TOR and I thought the pace of levelling was okay, maybe fater than I'd hoped, but okay. Then I got into the final game and it appeared as though they'd upped that pace. By level 20 I was miles ahead of the curve and I recall there was a huge spate of people asking why the levelling was so damn fast.

I'm just reaching level 50 in SWTOR right now (this weekend, I expect) but it's obvious I'm so damn far behind everyone else. I've been seeing people calling for HM groups for weeks, and I've been hiding from level 50s in PvP for weeks.

I also feel hampered for not being level 50. It's almost as if when I do get there I'll be left out in the cold because I haven't been level 50 till now. It already appears to be harder to get groups in game, though I don't think the population drop is seriously drastic. Noticeable maybe, but not huge.

There is one thing that makes me really think, and it relates to Isabelle's stories of the old games, where levelling was an achievement. I recall my first days in Everquest, a young noob attempting to crush bats in Gfay, my trusty club in hand. I turn my head to find my elusive prey and what do I see? A level 50 clothed in shiny garb and arms full of presents for the noobs. He gave me a full set of patchwork, armour I cherished till my late teens. I was so grateful and so impressed. This guy was 50; a serious achievement. I worshipped the ground he walked on.

Now on to SWTOR and I recently made a trip back to Korriban as part of my story quest. I wasn't level 50 like the hero above, but I was close. I wanted people to bow at my feet and recognise me as someone who had made that journey and suceeded. They were never going to though. Being 47 was no achievement. Being 50 was no achievement. The best I had to offer them was a buff. I could have given them some low level gear, or maybe some mods, but they'd be obsolete a few hours on and they'd not cherish them like my noob cherished his patchwork.

I felt like a king without a flock. Then I realised those youngsters making their way to level 10 in the noob zones probably had level 50s a week before I even made 40. I was a pretender. Years of fast levelling had made my effort meaningless.

Let this article be the start of something new. Let us who realise the problem be a voice to the devs, and a louder one than Isabelle's locusts. I want that feeling of awe directed on me like I directed it on the very welcome giver of patchwork. I want to be proud that I reached 50.

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by holifeet

People will complain about the PvP in TOR till the cows come home, but I think there is one major, overriding fact that's not being taken in to account.

TOR was never hyped as a PvP game, was it? It's essentially a PvE game with some PvP tacked on to keep the masses happy.

Those masses are all the people that seem to think any new MMO must have some PvP in it to make it a hit. You see it everywhere. Where's the PvP? What are the PvP factions? What, no PvP?

I don't mind PvP, even though I'm pathetic at it, but TOR has made me seriously meh meh on PvP. I can't stand Huttball, and it's the only warzone I ever get, so I've stopped doing warzones. I like open world PvP but I never see any. I've seen a few republic running about in the high level questing zones but it's only ever one-versus-one (or actually more often two-versus-one in republic favour - they stick together often). I don't find that fun though.

I'm actually wishing I hadn't rolled on a PvP server, mainly because there's no point in having done so. I'm hampered often by republic underdogs sticking together (which I don't blame them for) but the Empire don't look out for each other. I've mentioned in chat before that there's a nuisance jedi causing havoc somewhere and gotten a 'so what' reply. The other day I saw someone say that the Republic were camping a quest hub and the reply was 'yeah, they always do'. Maybe that just echoes that PvP in TOR is a grind taking place in warzones.

The problem is that PvP should be just an add on. It should be carefully thought out and have some meaning. I don't blame BW/EA for this though. I blame the community that insist on every game having PvP. That's what brings this on. BW/EA have no choice but to tack on a bit of PvP or their game will be slated across the spectrum of internet gamers, and more so than it is now. 'No PvP, what the heck'?

People insist on PVP in a game so the devs tack some on. It doesn't work how people wnat it to, even though the game might not be a pure PvPer, and they complain. Do people ever consider that TOR isn't a hardcore PvPer? No, they don't. Should they consider this? Yes, they should.

Let's have games that are designed (from the get go) for PvP or games that aren't. Not games that are 'a bit of this' tacked on.

 

I'm looking forward to PvP in GW2 because ArenaNet appear to have been really thinking about it. There's the obligatory small team matches and then there's much hyped world versus world battles that pit three servers against each other. It's thought about, not tacked on. And there'll be no under populated faction against an over populated faction.

 

Just one last point to say I really am enjoying TOR, but I like it for the PvE and the story. I'm seriously bored of the PvP and wish I hadn't rolled on a PvP server.

 

To be fair, we hear the exact same argument from PvEer's, even on PvP based games. We also hear the exact same argument from Soloers on group based games.

I remember a ton of complaining when WAR first released. Even though it was a PvP focused game, there were constant complaints like "what If I dont feel like grouping, I just want to solo" or the famous "Its not fair that I have to worry about players attacking me while I grind on mobs".

Vanguard and FX got the same complaints about being "forced" to group, even though the devs stated from the beggining, that the game would be group based, and still you guys complain. Recently with all the F2P hype, we PvPers are getting yelled at even more than ever.

I dont see this changing soon either, in fact I would bet my bottom dollar that when PS2 comes out, there will be mobs of players complaining that they keep getting attack by other players, while "exploring".    lol?

 

Well yes, I have to say I agree with you. My post wasn't meant to be a 'get at PvPers', so sorry if it came across like that. I was trying to get across that games need to be what they intend to be rather than appeasing as many groups as possible.

I may not be a hardcore PvPer, but I want to try PS2 and I won't be sitting there screaming that I can't explore...trust me. I'll be out shooting people, or helping my team to shoot people by engineering or crafting or healing for them.

A similar thing goes for hardcore PvP games such as Darkfall. I really thought mechanics sounded interesting in that game, but I wasn't in love with the very hardcore PvP environment so I stayed away.

The community, as a whole, does need to draw itself away from wanting everything in a game. If a game can do everything well, like GW2 seems to have a chance of doing so, then all is good. I just don't think SWTOR was ever meant to be a PvP focused game. People clamoured for PvP and got a half there add on. That's the problem.

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Personally i think it runs alot deeper than just fixing PVP,they made a big bobo using the hero engine.Anyone who thinks that BioWare have not thought about all these pvp ideas over the 6 years is delusional.They have had devs from DAOC working with them and devs from war.

It's to little to late,the backdrop was set the day they agreed to use the crap graphics engine they built this game on.All this "with time bioware can" blah blah is just wishful thinking,they haven't got time.

Any serious PVP gamer would choose daoc three faction type pvp over swtor and sorry to bring it up but GW2 is that game.

Believe me when GW2 comes out many PVPers from swtor will switch.

BioWare can't turn back the clock and change the hero engine,this is imo what is stopping them going all out on RVR type PVP,the engine can't handle that type of PVP.

 

 

I'm sorry, but what has the engine and the graphics got to do with the quality of the PvP? Nothing, that's the answer.

This is just another post targeting the fact that you don't like SWTOR, isn't it?

Why does a graphics engine stop them from doing meaningful RvR?

People will complain about the PvP in TOR till the cows come home, but I think there is one major, overriding fact that's not being taken in to account.

TOR was never hyped as a PvP game, was it? It's essentially a PvE game with some PvP tacked on to keep the masses happy.

Those masses are all the people that seem to think any new MMO must have some PvP in it to make it a hit. You see it everywhere. Where's the PvP? What are the PvP factions? What, no PvP?

I don't mind PvP, even though I'm pathetic at it, but TOR has made me seriously meh meh on PvP. I can't stand Huttball, and it's the only warzone I ever get, so I've stopped doing warzones. I like open world PvP but I never see any. I've seen a few republic running about in the high level questing zones but it's only ever one-versus-one (or actually more often two-versus-one in republic favour - they stick together often). I don't find that fun though.

I'm actually wishing I hadn't rolled on a PvP server, mainly because there's no point in having done so. I'm hampered often by republic underdogs sticking together (which I don't blame them for) but the Empire don't look out for each other. I've mentioned in chat before that there's a nuisance jedi causing havoc somewhere and gotten a 'so what' reply. The other day I saw someone say that the Republic were camping a quest hub and the reply was 'yeah, they always do'. Maybe that just echoes that PvP in TOR is a grind taking place in warzones.

The problem is that PvP should be just an add on. It should be carefully thought out and have some meaning. I don't blame BW/EA for this though. I blame the community that insist on every game having PvP. That's what brings this on. BW/EA have no choice but to tack on a bit of PvP or their game will be slated across the spectrum of internet gamers, and more so than it is now. 'No PvP, what the heck'?

People insist on PVP in a game so the devs tack some on. It doesn't work how people wnat it to, even though the game might not be a pure PvPer, and they complain. Do people ever consider that TOR isn't a hardcore PvPer? No, they don't. Should they consider this? Yes, they should.

Let's have games that are designed (from the get go) for PvP or games that aren't. Not games that are 'a bit of this' tacked on.

I'm looking forward to PvP in GW2 because ArenaNet appear to have been really thinking about it. There's the obligatory small team matches and then there's much hyped world versus world battles that pit three servers against each other. It's thought about, not tacked on. And there'll be no under populated faction against an over populated faction.

Just one last point to say I really am enjoying TOR, but I like it for the PvE and the story. I'm seriously bored of the PvP and wish I hadn't rolled on a PvP server.

Originally posted by Starpower

Originally posted by holifeet

Welcome to episode 233 of 'Let's scratch at the floorboards and search desperately to find something else that's bad about SWTOR'!

 

But seriously, I don't understand how people can say this.

For years now it's been a constant complaint that MMOs offer us a wall of text and quest after endless quest.

Bioware dare to do something different. They bring the story in to the MMO complete with interesting cutscenes that let you develop a personality for your character. Your character has come to life before your eyes. he speaks. He gestures. He replies, sarcastically.

A complaint resurfaces. People are now annoyed that they have to sit and listn to their characters talking to them. It ruins immersion.

MMO developers across the land throw their arms to the skies and cry God for mercy!

 

Now a little thing about immersion. For me immersion is hugely complimented by imagination. If you don't have, or are unwilling to use your imagination then you will never feel like you are in this worlds. So many people appear to lack this human characteristic because they complaint ime after time about immersion.

 

Of course it could just be because people are so desperate to complain about this game. A point that brings me fully back to my first line. I'm in shock and awe that this thread exists.

As mentioned before it's not about the issues being brought up. It's about SWTOR hurting peoples feelings for not being the game they wanted. Complaining is just a means to convey it.

If you really think about it, what are the chances of an MMO being everything you want in a game? Every single MMO will have some things people like and some things people don't like.

The problem at heart is people getting too attached to what appears to be part of the game in development. I followed Vanguard heavily throughout its development and was shocked that it was so different from what Brad McQuaid had been saying.

I only had myself to blame.

Why? Because there is a common sentence that comes out of the mouths of developers time after time during the development cycle of an MMO.

'Subject to change'

Or it may be 'work in progress', even if that's slightly different.

Because MMos are subject to change or a work in progress. They take years to develop. Ideas are thought of. Ideas don't work. New ideas have to implemented. The game changes and progresses.

Read and digest, young padawan. Sit back and you'll be less disappointed when 'possibility A' and 'maybe B' don't make it in to the full game. Or if you want to follow a game's development then understand the one overriding sentence that should be etched into your synapses...

'Subject to change'

Because it will.

Welcome to episode 233 of 'Let's scratch at the floorboards and search desperately to find something else that's bad about SWTOR'!

But seriously, I don't understand how people can say this.

For years now it's been a constant complaint that MMOs offer us a wall of text and quest after endless quest.

Bioware dare to do something different. They bring the story in to the MMO complete with interesting cutscenes that let you develop a personality for your character. Your character has come to life before your eyes. he speaks. He gestures. He replies, sarcastically.

A complaint resurfaces. People are now annoyed that they have to sit and listn to their characters talking to them. It ruins immersion.

MMO developers across the land throw their arms to the skies and cry God for mercy!

Now a little thing about immersion. For me immersion is hugely complimented by imagination. If you don't have, or are unwilling to use your imagination then you will never feel like you are in these worlds. So many people appear to lack this human characteristic because they complain time after time about immersion.

Of course it could just be because people are so desperate to complain about this game. A point that brings me fully back to my first line. I'm in shock and awe that this thread exists.

Originally posted by Kabaal

Remove the cookie from your browser and you'll be able to access them fine, they get bugged out with that queue thing all the time.

It works. It logs me out, but it works. I did try to log back in and ended up on a queue page, so I'm just reading the forums logged out.

Originally posted by Tyvolus3

reading all these /ragequit threads here has made me want to play RIFT again.  Although I didnt buy or play SWTOR, somehow being on these forums has pushed me to want to re-sub to RIFT....WTF ?

And I thought madness wasn't contagious...

I might not like it but I can accept the servers having to go down for maintenance. I work nights but I rarely play morning/early afternoon because I'm sleeping. For that reason it's of little inconvenience to me. It's a selfish reason, I know, but it works for me.

Then I have a week off work and I'm able to play during the day. Now this maintenance becomes a little more annoying, but I went out yesterday thinking I'd have the rest of the week.

I'd been on TOR for maybe an hour today and I see a message saying the servers are going down...at 4pm UK time. The talk in chat then says it's a 4 hour patch which would take it to 8pm UK time. That is right in to UK prime time and that is not acceptable really.

I'll find something to do so it's not the end of the world, but how can BW/EA justify taking the servers down just before a large percentage of the UK players are heading home and hoping to spend some time in a game they are paying for (or will be soon)?

I wanted to go to the forums and check out the latest on how long it'll be, but there's a queue. I'm stuck in a waiting room and it says I'll be redirected when I reach the end of the queue. I've been in that queue for 30 minutes now.

This is really not good planning from BW/EA.

Originally posted by Wicoa

Not only that this stops people again from unsubscribing thats if they put in the cancel now button

 

Yeah, that's probably their main aim for taking the game and website down...to make people pay for an extra month!

/end sarcasm

It is normal at their site. I've encountered queues a few times there but they rarely last more than a minute. The servers just went down for more maintenance so I guess everyone has flooded on to the forums to have a moan.

To be fair I wanted to. This is the second time in two days they've had maintenance during UK awake hours, and today (if estimates of 4 hours are correct) it will be in to UK prime time.

During the day I can accept, but during peak play hours is not acceptable.

Originally posted by spaceport

Originally posted by holifeet

Originally posted by spaceport

he, i still think that the way SWG handled all the Jedi thing was terribad.

But still, justifying anything with lore when SWTOR is probably the most lore raping Star Wars game ever made is kinda funny.

You know, like how a lightsaber skills has a DoT that makes the target BLEED.

Or a SITH HEALING with a skill called "DARK HEAL" (Quality bioware writing right there)

Maybe they hit the enemy with the butt of the lightsaber, or a punch maybe. And what's wrong with Dark Heal? If you're using the dark side of the force to heal then it's pretty apt to call it a dark heal, isn't it?

Are you seriously defending a skill named Dark Heal?

What next? Dark Rage?...  Dark Leap?

Lol it's Sith and they are bad so we name the skill Dark Heal xD

Bioware should add a skill named Good Slash, now that would be hillarious :D

Do you know Star Wars? It's the Dark side of the force and the Light side of the force. If they named it good heal then, yes that would be terrible. Dark heal, however, seems apt to me. Dark is a side of the force, good is not.

Originally posted by spaceport

he, i still think that the way SWG handled all the Jedi thing was terribad.

But still, justifying anything with lore when SWTOR is probably the most lore raping Star Wars game ever made is kinda funny.

You know, like how a lightsaber skills has a DoT that makes the target BLEED.

Or a SITH HEALING with a skill called "DARK HEAL" (Quality bioware writing right there)

Maybe they hit the enemy with the butt of the lightsaber, or a punch maybe. And what's wrong with Dark Heal? If you're using the dark side of the force to heal then it's pretty apt to call it a dark heal, isn't it?

Originally posted by spaceport

Originally posted by holifeet

Originally posted by EduardoASG

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by pierth

There are a ton of people that bought the game for lightsabers alone- just goes to show how low expectations are anymore.

One of the things that made becoming a Jedi so spellbinding back in pre-CU Star Wars Galaxies was that it wasn't easy, you had to work hard to unlock it.  It was also dangerous to be one, as your lightsaber would flag you for PvP, and you would likely end up on a Bounty Hunter quest.

Now anyone can be a Jedi from the start, and there's no fun in it.  Bioware blew that aspect of this game too. Completely ignoring what I said above, they made the journey from Padawan to Jedi Knight the matter of a few trivial quests and little fanfair.  Boooooooooringggg.

swg pre-cu was the shite.

amazing game like we never ever saw again. pitty SOE scrwed it.

but y.. jedis and the like should be a hard to work class to achieve.. not somehting you can choose right from the start.

You need to alter that view of the game in to a context that goes with the lore of the Star Wars universe at the time TOR is set. TOR is set 4000 years before the time of Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker or the fall of the jedi order. At this time there are thousands of jedi and sith roaming the galaxy. It's really not uncommon to see them.

What would you rather people start as in TOR? The ship's cook with ambitions to be a trooper or a little force sensitivity? 20 levels of preparing salads and you get the chance to train at the academy or have to pick up a pistol in a skirmish?

While what you say is true, nobody really cares about lore when discussing gameplay mechanics and features.

And it doesn't change the fact that becoming a Jedi on SWG was actually special, and in SWTOR, it's not.

At first maybe, but then every man and his dog became a jedi and the game went to pot. The lore does matter. 400 years before the battle of Yavin jedi were a common sight. People commonly say that gameplay and mechanics should be built around the lore of a world, such as the views on numbers of factions for the forthcoming 40K game. That is except when people want to take a swipe at a game.

My story in TOR is of a former slave that becomes a sith, and I have been told of how low I was at every opportunity. I have risen from the ranks of nobody to become a powerful warrior of the Empire. Now BW/EA could have made it so that I spent 30 levels mopping up rat infestations on Korriban to make me realise how special it was to be a sith. Boy, people would have complained about that. But at least it would have been special. I'd have been bored silly, but I'd have that special feeling come level 30.

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but anyone who says the game shouldn't start with jedi or sith is talking absolute nonsense.

Might I make a suggestion that the devs make one thread for people to post that they cancelled their account today. That way we don't have all these different threads of people saying how and why they felt the need to that open up the floor for all the haters to have a pop.

If people don't like TOR then they're welcome to their opinions, but they have to sound them at every beck and call, and there's plenty of them with threads like this popping up hourly. I used to do the same on the Rift forums and got warned for it. I now realise how bitter I looked.

Originally posted by EduardoASG

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by pierth

There are a ton of people that bought the game for lightsabers alone- just goes to show how low expectations are anymore.

One of the things that made becoming a Jedi so spellbinding back in pre-CU Star Wars Galaxies was that it wasn't easy, you had to work hard to unlock it.  It was also dangerous to be one, as your lightsaber would flag you for PvP, and you would likely end up on a Bounty Hunter quest.

Now anyone can be a Jedi from the start, and there's no fun in it.  Bioware blew that aspect of this game too. Completely ignoring what I said above, they made the journey from Padawan to Jedi Knight the matter of a few trivial quests and little fanfair.  Boooooooooringggg.

swg pre-cu was the shite.

amazing game like we never ever saw again. pitty SOE scrwed it.

but y.. jedis and the like should be a hard to work class to achieve.. not somehting you can choose right from the start.

You need to alter that view of the game in to a context that goes with the lore of the Star Wars universe at the time TOR is set. TOR is set 4000 years before the time of Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker or the fall of the jedi order. At this time there are thousands of jedi and sith roaming the galaxy. It's really not uncommon to see them.

What would you rather people start as in TOR? The ship's cook with ambitions to be a trooper or a little force sensitivity? 20 levels of preparing salads and you get the chance to train at the academy or have to pick up a pistol in a skirmish?