SOE has been working on the itemization problem for years now, so I doubt it will get better with this attempt.  Also if EQ2 holds true to form, there is a leadership at the helm which means the game mechanics are going to change again and repeat the whole process all over again. 

I don't see the itemization problems from EQ2 in WOW or LOTRO.  Nothing even remotely close to be honest.

Originally posted by dougmysticey

I normally try to stay positive but these threads are getting so old.

First, SWG players please take off the rose colored glasses. SWG was failing before NGE which is why NGE happened in the first place.

Actually SWG was gaining subscribers during the Combat Upgrade time period.  The NGE was a product of greed, envy and lack of care for customers.

None of that is changed by which version of SWG someone thinks is better.  Two completely different issues.

Originally posted by Ardwulf

 

(A) SOE didn't cause their own downfall. World of Warcraft did that, for whatever value of "downfall" you think is appropriate here. It did so because it was frankly a better and much more accessible product than what SOE had out at the time.

(B) If you'd like to compare EQ2's update and release history with WoW's I'm prepared to debate this point-for-point, but at the end of the discussion you'll find that EQ2 has released way more free content than WoW has, and has fixed a lot more broken stuff as well.

(C) The only major fix of old content Blizzard did was in the context of, guess what, a paid expansion. That one quest in Stormwind City that was broken for years? They fixed it, finally, with Cataclysm, by wiping almost the entire old world and starting fresh... and introducing new broken content, still unfixed. I grant that broken quests in WoW are uncommon, but they are in EQ2 as well.

Just to address 3 points you made

(A) SOE intentionally chose to release EQ2 early to beat WoW to market.  It was their choice to release EQ2 in the condition it was.  That is how SOE operates.  They look at marketing projections as the major decision making tools.  Blizzard on the flip side was all about not releasing their content until it was ready and it was fun.  That is why each game was received so differently.

(B) SOE has always chosen quantity over quality as an approach to developing their games.  More expansion packs in theory generate more sales.  Smedley has said in interviews several times that their strategy was quantity and that it caused the quality of their products to suffer as a result.  As a result they slowed down their production schedule for expansions in an effort to increase quality.  It would seem that all that really changed was the amount or content they can deliver was reduced and the amount of RMT/Cash Shop development seems to have increase in direct proportion to that. 

(C) Cataclysm was a fix to anything, because the old content worked just fine. 

Originally posted by vesavius

 

The highlighted points are especially true.

EQ2 is extremely healthy, and has years left in it, which is lucky for SOE because EQ3 is a long way off.

They need that time to reskin Free Realms with a Norrathian theme.

I don't think EQ2 is as healthy as people are suggesting.  It just had another round of server mergers a few months back and if the trend holds true people will start talking about empty servers around this time next year.

The expansions for the "well supported" game have been getting smaller, further apart and generally received much worse than the previous one.  The next one isn't even going to have content if what SOE says is true. 

SOE has been in fleece mode for longer than is reasonable healthy for a company.  As their populations have declined they have tried to even out revenues by "taxing" their playerbase with more and more additional purchases.  Now that they are in financial hardship they have little choice but to find some way to increase revenues. 

In short, SOE isn't going to get their head out of their ass anytime soon, because they cannot afford to do that.  Their money grubbing is going to continue and actually accelerate between now and the release of PSNext/EQNext.  All of their existing games have been declining for years and really only exist now to fund development of future games that have a chance to keep the company sustainable. 

Originally posted by Beanpuie

Are you nuts..??

 

are you trying to invoke the rage of  thousands of  SWG role players in a blood frenzy??

 

Thousands?

Originally posted by gotha

Originally posted by Xondar123

A) Lucas Arts isn't shutting down SWG, SOE is. B) How can TOR be NGE2 if it is an entirely different game from SWG?

Ho hum, more "I wanted SWG2!" complaints.

 

Cause SOE is always shutting down games that only pull a small profit.  Must be why they shut down vanguard.......oooh wait.

This call came from Lucas Arts who probably did not want to renew the lisences.  I suspect most shit calls came from Lucas Arts.  I am pretty sure there is an former SWG dev blog somewhere on the internet that confirms that with NGE.

• The matrix online (closed down)
• The Agency (terminated)
• Champions of Norrath (closed down)
• Dungeon Overlord (sold)
• SWG (closing down)
• Platform publishing - PC/mmos (Closed)

SOE has no trouble closing down failed/failing projects, especially if their is a 3rd party fee to be paid. 

Very nice to see action being taken.  Hopefully these are some people deeply invovled in the attacks and they get their just rewards.  

It sure would be nice to see some hackers shut up for a while

Alot of what I like about the game has already been said, so forgive any repeats.  

• Classes system:  create your character the way you want to.  Pick and choose how to build your character and the ability to switch it around between events in the game.
• Levelless system:  since there is no max level people won't be pressured to rush through levels just to reach "end" game.  The game can be the same from beginning to end and it will all be relevent to players.  There will always be some sort of progression to achieve instead of filling artifical emtpy bars to be rewarded with some dinging sound.  Ugh I hate that.
• Setting:  The game uses the whole world and interesting creative twists on legand and lore.  Some like the cthuluness, some the undertone of secret societies fighting for control of the world, some the mystery.  It really is a nice blend of elements.
• Ragnar:  he is well regarded for creating nice stories in his games and the story is being given a lot of attention in this new game.  At least by what they are saying. 
• Creative gameplay:  puzzles, alternate reality gameplay (web searching, etc), things in game having more meaning that clicking on someone with a flashing ! over their head.  I can't really put this into words, but the small things really add up to a bit more engaging looking gameplay.  Having to notice a flock of birds fly overhead that could lead to a special encounter is pretty cool.  Having to notice symbols hidden in the gameworld that might lead to a special location is pretty cool.  No huge glowing arrows to point out secrets to the players will be refreshing.

Originally posted by Antarious

Originally posted by TigerBlood99

My prediction is:  SOE releases amazing subscription/sales numbers within the first 2-3 months of these games being out....  Then, nothing.

 

The Irony is this could be said of every MMO that has come out since December 2004.  

Actually there are only a few few exceptions to that and unsurprisingly those few games have been the few games that have been cited for solid gameplay and polish at release. 

I agree with most of what you said aside from this small point.  Overall I would say that the market has been flooded with incomplete rushed untested games since 2004 as companies sucumb to gold fever or fail to reign in their ambitions in game design. 

Originally posted by Boge

Does anyone even know what "polished" means these days?  The performance in the game shows the lack of polish in Everquest II alone.

I have to agree that people are throwing around polished about any game that doesn't crash their computer or the server for more than a few hours these days.

The poor itemization that has plagued the game for several expansions now shows that EQ2 still lacks a lot of polish.  Just that one problem has a cascading effect on the games content and how players engage in it. 

No question EQ2 is a decent game, but the lack of polish has really held it back from its real potential. 

Originally posted by CasualMaker

Originally posted by EverSkelly

What's up with linked mobs? You pull a mob, another one or two comes from the crowd, because they are linked.. wtf?

Mobs are social; have been since EQ. You're only noticing this now? At least in EQ2, clicking on a social mob visually shows you which other mobs it's linked to.

Some would say that clearly labeling the group of mobs just by clicking on one takes away from the immersion and mystery of the encounter.  The unbreakable links also take away from player creativity and ability, because aside from exploiting there really isn't any way to change the encounter and take control of the situation.  No tactics or creative thinking will have an effect on the outcome of the grouped mob mentality. 

Even if one of the allies is down the hall, around 2 corners and behind a closed door, he will telepathically know his friend is under attack and rush to assist. 

SOE is in a real catch 22 as far as their business practices go.

SOE is no longer in a position where it can run over its playerbase with annoying cash grabs and ignore their protests.   They need every single subscriber they have and need to attract and retain new players.  .

However SOE is not longer in a financial position to make those types of changes.  SOE has been downsizing for the last 3 years with a massive downsize just a few months ago.  All of their mmos are in rapid decline or in a terminal condition.  They have over a dozen online games to support, 2-3 large projects in development and a drastically shrinking customer base.  SOE is no longer in a position to stop trying to reach into players wallets with cash grabs, cash shop content and anything else they can come up with.

DCU was supposed to be a huge hit for SOE, but it has tanked horribly.  There is nothing coming within the next year+ to revive SOE.   The only way for SOE to make additional money and minimize their losses is to tax their existing playerbase. 

Just watch how many times over the next year SOE tries to reach into their players wallets with payment up front offers, cash shop additions, special items and anything else they can manage to sell. 

I'm not saying anything is Mark Andersons fault as he is walking into something that is already a total mess.  However he isn't going to be some miracle worker that is going to turn the game around, because he has replaced Chris Cao.  Most of the problems in DCU are already set in stone and will never change.

While Andersons post count may be low, Deadmeat has only posted 3 times since Cao left.  Again I don't think much is changing from SOE in terms of communication.  There will be spurts of communication followed by the typical information blackouts that have plagued the game.  SOE is terrible with communication and much of that is intentional.

Vanguard is still running, because SOE owns the IP.  They leave the servers running and never spend another minute of development time on it and not have to answer to a 3rd party.

You are right that SOE will run a game until the very last cent can be squeezed out of it, but SOE doesn't own the Star Wars IP or the Matrix IP and as such had to close them down.  I don't think Warner Brothers or Lucas Arts see their IPs so cheaply as SOE does and neither really wants to watch SOE squeeze a few dollars out of a dead game.

Originally posted by gt4980b

While CC was running DCUO, no devs spoke about anything but bugs in the game.  Not one peep came from SOE austin.  Smedley made more comments on the game than the devs on this game.  CC would pop on every month to post a description of the content...but no feedback on the game.  Deadmeat only posted about bugs during this time.

Post Cao there has been an increase of communication in quantity and quality.  Please keep in mind there were Facebook and a tweet or two.  Not much on twitter to be honest.  They have been more honest about the state of the game.  Real Q&A's on stickcam vids.  The last stickcam vid had NO marketing people in the room which is a first for this game.  They have relaxed the iron grip on the forums and have let the player vent.  There is a test server.  Not only for mega servers but update 4 is on the test server right now.  They have actually changed some of the power animations to allow player to differentiate between a power that heals you and a power that will get you killed.  CC would not even entertain change.  Its little small things that make a huge difference in connecting with your community.  The players that are still left are much happier today than 3/4 months ago. 

By the by...M Anderson was pretty much the driving force behind the change of DCUO combat from classic RPG to an action RPG. (Some people find that good and some bad) That's why he was recognized and promoted.

I don't really agree that the communication has improved.  Replacing Cao was really just a confidence move for the players.  Someone had to take the fall for DCU and Cao was that person.   Mark Anderson should be posting all over the forums to give players confidence that he is going to make things right.  So far he has 12 total posts and all of them are replies to existing topics.  I would have expected any new developer to first and formost work on a state of the game address and detail a plan of action to correct the games issues. 

Are most of the players left happier with the game than the entire populace was 3/4 months ago, I suppose.  Yet I don't think there really is an overall level of satisfaction with the game.  The server mergers are holding a lot of hope for the small amount of players still left, but I do not think it is going to resolve the games issues in a way that the remaining players think it will.  Server mergers are a temporary fix to declining popuation.

Lastly, Mark Anderson was not the driving force behind the DCU combat system.  He has stated it serveral times that the combat engine team created the system and it wasn't a product of his efforts. 

This all leads back to the original point of what can Mark Anderson do to turn the game around now that he is in charge?  He has a smaller staff and a smaller budget.  He has all the problems that previously existed on top of meeting the monthly content promise, filling a cash shop with items, creating miniexpansions for sale, merging all the servers into a new phased single server architecture all the while trying to retain the remaining players and try to attract new subscribers. 

Was Chris Cao really preventing all that from happening and replacing him with the Art Director really going to resolve those issues?

It is nice to see a face that isn't Chris Cao, but I don't really think there is much a change of leadership can do for fixing DCU. 

Originally posted by mad-hatter

More diversity, hah.  If anything it's been droves of wannabe WoW clones since it came out, with very very few exceptions.

• Fallen Earth
• Auto Assault
• Crime Craft
• All Points Bulletin
• Darkfall
• Age of Conan
• Mortal Online
• Xyson
• Fusion Fall
• Wizard 101
• Dungeons & Dragons Online
• Dark and Light
• Planetside 2
• Earthrise
• Tribes Universe
• Dungeon Fighter Online
• Free Realms
• Sword of the New World
• The Secret World
• Gods and Heroes
• Vanguard
• Wurm online
• Aion
• Guild Wars 2
• Hellgate London
• Pirates of the Burning Sea
• Huxley
• Jumpgate evolution
• Lego universe
• Perpetuum Online
• Seed
• Tabula Rasa
• The Chronicles of Spellborn
• Dust 514
• Tera
• Battlestar Galactica online
• The Agency

I would not exactly say there are "very very few exceptions" to companies trying to make wow clones.  The lack of major success doesn't mean companies have stopped trying to make different games.

I doubt you could name that many "wow clones".

Going by the tone of this thread I suspect someone will find a way to blame the failure for all of those games on blizzard or wow.

This is what you are going to get from DCU in its current shape

A new actiony combat system.  Some people love it and some hate it, but it certainly feels designed for a console controller.   Be warned there is a lot of clicking.   Really a lot of clicking.

You will most likely get your first character to max level in a week or two, depending on how casual you play.  Leveling is quick, really quick and there isn't much content.   You will have seen almost all of the leveling content so if you make a second character you will be doing most of the same missions over.   Some might be slightly reskinned to suit leveling a hero versus a villian, but they are the same exact missions.

The game world is going to be very empty.  Once you finish leveling there little reason to actually go into the game world, so very few of the remaining people still do.  The world is a ghost town and by the time you reach max level you will have seen the all the areas in both cities.  The game world is really small and can be travelled from one end to the other in just a few minutes.

At max level the game almost instantly changes into running instanced missions that are limited to once per day.  Grinding missions and raids for tokens to get suits of raid armor is the extent of the end game content.   That is it for end game content.

The next three game updates have already been discussed and it looks like nothing but mudflation of the raid suit gear as players are given new suits that require more tokens for the next 6-8 months.   

The next game update is going to feature Krytpo the super dog as the end boss fight.

I don't think it has anything to do with giving up max level characters or amounts of gold.  If that were the case then people simply would not leave in the first place.  If those things were so precious why would those players even try out a new game?

On the flip side it is very very common for players to have max level characters with tons of currency in the new games they played only to return to WoW.   In addition hundreds of thousands of players left their long established max level characters in other games to join wow and never to return to those other games. 

Like Omega3 said earlier in this thead, there is just something that has been missing in most other mmos.  That is why people continue to return to wow over and over again even when they are burned out from the gameplay well beyond a healthy limit. 

There are a lot of people just waiting for a better game to come along and when it does they will leave in pretty large numbers.  Thats just my opinion, but until that happens most will just keep going back or switch to other games. 

I'm curious how DCU has gotten better since Cao has left.  What exactly has changed to suggest that things are getting better?

Since Cao left DCU has had a cash shop added to the game, cash content update instead of free content updates as promised.  Otherwise everything really seems like it is business as usual for the game.   

The excecutive producer "Deadmeat" has a total of 61 posts, but only 3 posts since Cao was fired.

The lead producer Mark Anderson "Manderson" 12 total posts and not a single new thread to his credit.

Jens Anderson the creative director has 12 total posts and all 12 were done over a span of 4 days after SOE fan faire last week.

Mark Anderson is a much more likable face than Chris Cao was, but he is walking into the mess that Chris Cao created.  I don't think the team was unaware of the problems with DCU and Cao was somehow keeping the game from reaching those goals.  At this point the problems are built deep into the design of the game more than they are held back by the person making decisions. 

Likewise I just don't think that promoting the art director to lead producer is somehow going to create a drastic turnaround. 

Originally posted by GreenHell

Auto Assault - even the headset that came with it broke in a few days.

I don't mean to laugh at your misfortune, but that is funny.