And one does not simply have the ability to influence and organize the playerbase by having a virtual title. The problem is the devs are stuck in fantasy land, hoping a commmand structure like the one you see in real armies plays out the same way in a video game just buy copying it. It doesnt work. Theres a difference between a real life army assembled and funded by the civilian population and a virtual army where people come in to shoot stuff and have fun. You wont get organization the way the current HC is structed because there isnt that relationship between officer and soldier like there is in a real army. In the video game reality, dedication and disipline to a cause come from groups of like minded people that come together and form guild/ squads/ alliances that have the power to do something on their schedule. Even then that sort of organization is rare in video games and reserveed for the elite competative players in the game. This game is like one giant pug where no one gives a shit because they were brought together by game mechanics not their own intiative. Hoping that a player commits themselves on this level just by subscribing to the game is false. Players will only commit to this kind of organization of they, be it a squad, guild whatever you want to call it, when they have to power to get something done in game. It is why the retention rate of this game is terrible, people actually do buy in to the one army one leader principle of what the devs are trying to do, but quickly are left feeling disconnected from the the one mega guild who they dont know or care to follow. No amount of coaxing, teaching or bribing the playerbase is going to foster that fake relationship between leader and follower unless the players are given the power to choose that leader and the leader is given the power to lead them to his goals. This game is trying to re-enact a war, not let one happen. No ones buying it.

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Originally posted by arieste
I dislike PvP in general, so i'm not an expert, but EVE definitely has most meaningful and interesting PvP.
 
AoC certainly has A LOT of PvP and there are sieges and things.  Like i said, getting randomly killed and spawn-camped by 20 morons for no reason isn't really my thing, but if you enjoy that type of thing, AoC will definitely hook you up.
 
I've also heard Darkfall is pretty hardcore in terms of PvP.  Not played it though.

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But you like eve...

I find eve's pvp not to be competative at all, as in like a sport, its more of a gank or be ganked , no one wants a fair fight and numbers only really matter, and you get spawn camped all the time at gates, infact the only time pvp happens is when you spawn into a system or spawn out of a station. Then theres the fact that you have to wait to train skills and those people who started before you are ahead no matter how much you play, and dont forget the cost. It costs a lot to pvp in that game and even more so to learn how to do it well. You will loose many hours of grinding to be able to pvp for 5 seconds. I guess thats why EVE's developers started selling their own currency for money. Bunch of low life suckers playing that game is all I can say.

I dont think its gay if you want to dress up like a woman and have sex with men. At leaste youre trying to be a woman about it. If you dont want to have sex men and still want to dress up like a woman, then you are a gay. A lesbian.

Maybe you wish you had a female body, ask yourself this... if you had the choice before you were born to have a male or female body? Right. Im guessing you chose female. Nothing wrong with wanting to be something your not. If youre not it you can fake it until you make it. Dress up real pretty and have some butt pounding good sex. Its healthy.

I just want a game that lets you group up and do something. This game doesnt allow that. I could get 1000 guys over, draw up an elaborate plan, and I wouldnt be able to excecute it because the game wont let me with the HC system. Sure I can spend the day trying to convince those with power to give me some, but why should I? People is power, If you can organize 1000 people you should get power to pick a target, it doesnt make any sense otherwise and call this a mmo. Its a simple concept, what dont you understand?

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Originally posted by Eberbach

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Most MMO's are based on a lot of little instant gratification that slowly leads to larger gratification. Gamers are naturally lazy, they want to do things the easiet way. i.e., Do something easy and be rewarded for it and still feel like you accomplished something..

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BG:WW2OL is not exactly that kind of game. The pace is more or less...well to put it this way...if WOW is for kids who shotgun energy drinks then WW2OL is for men and women who sip their whisky.

The two guilds point is simply not true. There are many squads that comrpise any one side. The squads are akin to guilds with the high command being the ones looking at the big picture. Its important to remember that the high command is comrpised of people who play the game and are also members of squads and who also want to enjoy themselves. Its very easy to get in contact with an officer and ask them to set a mission up for you, its called coordination, and a lot of people who play this game play it for the coordination and teamwork, because quite frankly there is no other games out there that requires the combination of player skill and team coordination at the same scale this game offers.
 

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To coordinate at such a level effectively it requires a chain of command. Tell me of one organization in the world that is large and successful that is not organized in some wa?. If you want do the big picture things in this game its just a few whispers away generally.
With the recent introduction of placeable spawns has made the game more lively with larger battles so that is quite an attractive new feature as more time is spent on the battleground rather than looking for battles (generally their are at least two battles going on somewhere at the same time if not many more).
Finally, where else can you in the course of a couple of hours, call in fire for mortar teams, blow up an enemies barracks, go on a bombing mission, shoot down enemy planes with aa, and roll across the enemy in a tank? The combinations are so varied and complex that no two battles are ever the same. I have played WOW, Fallen Earth, and a few other mmo's and they all pale in comparison to the entertainment value of this game if one sticks with it for a bit, at least for my tastes.
 

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1. It is 2 guilds. When the loot is a capturing a town, turning it over to your flag, then theres only 2 guilds because they hold the power to start, stop and choose a target. Having to ask someone in game if you can go on a raid means your not a guild, youre in one. Theres only 2.

2. To coordinate takes people willing to coordinate, and that willingness wont be gotten in a public guild where the person in charge is not the one you chose to follow. In real life a High Command system promotes coordination where soldiers are paid for their efforts, in video game life the HC system of this game does not promote coordination where people pay to play.

3. Battles are not attractive when its not your battle.

4. You cant call in a mortar team, you spawn a mortar unit and spam spawn points hopeing for a kill.

You cant blow up barracks.

You dont roll across the enemy, you roll to their spawn point and camp them until you can cap the town.

Look their are many thing wrong with this game but the gamebreaker is thats its not a MMO. You know where you can get together with your squad, coordinate and get some phat lewts.

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Originally posted by Lasaathnann
WoW killer?  No way....

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YES Way!!

WoW? omg that game still exists? i dont care how good her personality is, shes gotta look good or its no deal.

Guild Wars 2 the WoW killer.

You know, where you can group up with some friends, get something done in game on your own intiative? I know this doesnt fit into their HC high command structure, but their HC system doesnt fit into MMO's.

How are you supposed to play a game with only 1 guild , well 2 1 for each side where you cant do anything in that game but follow the 1 guilds plans. Thats not mmo. And since its a public guild the cooperation and teamwork and caring is just not their. It would be if you allowed anyone to make your own guild that can actually get something done in game that counts.

I wanna get my guys over to the game and raid England, I cant. What gives?? when??

my life was pathetic

What about Guild Wars? Best F2P game imo.

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Originally posted by Zeblade
yet here you are..
 
and every forum is has its few.. suck it up.. let it go.. move on.. stay out of the threads you dont like.. blah blah..   :)

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Would you care to elaborate? Im not really sure what youre getting at or how it relates to what I said.

Thats why I dont come here anymore. The only people not inrested in debate on this forum are the debaters. However, seeing as the fine people that run this sight are impartial, it would be in their best interest to encourage debate. In nature, the constant fight between positive and negtative charges is what allows the universe to exists. If one side wins, there is no universe. If there isnt 2 sides, there is no universe. Its simple paradimg id like to pass along to the fine people who run this site. And I encourage you to open up the debate, so that the universe can exists.

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Originally posted by Meridion
Yea well... it surely offers enough unique fun experiences to sell for 50 bucks and 30 days playtime...
I mean I've literally played dozens of single player games for 50 bucks that kept my attention for less than two weeks. FEAR, Splinter Cell, Far Cry, Half-Life 2, Project IGI, Unreal 2, just to drop some... Sure, they're all shooters and have very little replayability... so? You still pay the full game price for them.
So why should I drag a 'uuuh the costs' argument in the ring when it comes to MMOs? If STO keeps me entertained for my full 30 days I already got a lot for my money and surely more than my average pew-pew-campaign.
M
EDIT : And chances are I will at least level up a character to the cap. I always did in any MMO I'd given a serious shot, and STO will be no exception.

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Ya but with a single player game you get a higher quality experience for $50 even though its shorter your not grinding for your 30 days and thats it. You can also replay single player games forever once youve bought it. 30 days of meaningless grinding in a mmo is not worth $50. Subing to a mmo that your not going to play more than 30 days is a waste of money, more so than buying a shity single player game.

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Originally posted by BEMotormouth
Spiz,
I just read a thread in the forums this morning about a massive para-drop (100+) organized by players just last night. There are some awesome screenshots of it.

We're also working on a list of in-game organized events that can be run on the live server fairly easily. Things like the Commander of Chief of one side or another being shot down in enemy territory, or an envoy trying to get into a hotly contested town to deliver HQ comms and putting a bounty on their heads. A bunch of ideas floating around that I'm hoping we'll see in the live game very soon.

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I count about 40 in there, and that stuff is rare. Organizing anything in this game is a waste of time and no one does it. And when you do do it the game is so unbalanced you got a guy waiting for you near a table about to respawn every 10 seconds to kill you after your 1 hour flight. Its ridiculous, it doesnt work, its broke. Theres many reasons why people dont organize in thsi game but the devs are just incapable of understanding as evidence by their failed attempts at fixing it.

So instead you gotta put on lame events no one wants to bother with because they have nothing to do with the live PVP game thats going on. Why do you have these fake re-enactment events? Isnt that kind of admiting your PVP game sucks and doesnt work on its own where you need special events to experience organization and teamwork? Isnt that what spiz is saying? That there is none? And there isnt.

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Originally posted by s1th80
RMT all the way. I wouldn't still be playing lineage 2 if i couldn't buy the adena and enjoy my pvp without having to worry about farm-time.

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But would have you even started playing lineage if you could of bought all that stuff from the start? Wasnt the fact that it was hard to get or rare part of the attraction of playing the game which eventually led you to buy gold? How would you cheat and get ahead of other players if they're all allowed to buy gold from the start? You would want to play a game where everyone has everything? Whats the point?

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Originally posted by Loktofeit

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Originally posted by Skarothlock

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Originally posted by grandpagamer

No. Its in the same category as hacks and other exploits. The old " im too busy to advance" doesnt cut it. If someone doesnt have the time to play the game without cheating, they shouldnt play the game. 

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It's not cheating if it is sanctioned by the game co. and open to all users
 
Skaroth

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Exactly. Especially in a PvE game where it makes absolutely no difference what the guy next to you has or does since there is no competition.

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If PVE doesnt matter why do you want to buy gold so you can buy crap to look cooler than the guy next to you?

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Originally posted by Skarothlock

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Originally posted by grandpagamer

No. Its in the same category as hacks and other exploits. The old " im too busy to advance" doesnt cut it. If someone doesnt have the time to play the game without cheating, they shouldnt play the game. 

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It's not cheating if it is sanctioned by the game co. and open to all users
 
Skaroth

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It is cheating even if its sanctioned. More importantly its cheating in the eyes of the people playing the game legitimately. D

Once you let players buy their way to the top, you discourage players who like to earn their way to the top via skill or time invested and these players make up the majority of the MMO market.

Infact its these people who drive the demand to buy gold. Its their legitimate play that provokes others to cheat and get ahead. Without legitimate play theres no reason to cheat or buy gold. If buying gold is legitimate them then theres no reason for a typical gold buyer to buy gold because they cant get ahead because everyone can buy gold freely. Thats where it all breaks down. Basically in the end it just makes the game more expensive which shrinks the potential market and playerbase size.

This is why gold selling must be kept illegal in any game to be considered legitimate. It woudl be like the goverment making drugs legal. Sure there are some things that maybe shouldnt be illegal but the fact that they are keeps a nice balance and check from letting things get too out of hand. I believe gold selling is one of those things that needs to be kept illegal and companies must find ways to get their cut other than selling the gold themselves.

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Originally posted by johnmatthais
 I still love sandboxes for not having predetermined quests. Quests should provide fun, not rewards. Maybe a little look into lore.
OR MAYBE DEVELOPERS CAN FINALLY USE INSTANCES LIKE THEY SHOULD BE USED AND MAKE PERSONALIZED EPIC STORY QUEST INSTANCES. GRAAHHHH!! HULK SMASH!!!

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NO!! We dont want instances!! we want non sensical watered down content with respawning bosses so we can accomodate the 3d chatroom sandbox game!!

Heres some examples why I quit

Guard Tower machine gunner spamming unlimted bullets at you. You finally get around some cover to take a clean shot and - nothing. Nope, bullets dont kill gaurd tower machine gunners, you have to run up to him and drop a grenade at the tower base. All the while hes shooting at you. BWhaaaa? lol

Tank Commanders. You see a tank commander pop his head out of his tank. You finally get a good shot at him. What happens? Nothing. It takes 2-3 bullets to the head to kill one of those and by then hes back hidden in his tank. BWhhhhha? Realistic? This is all the while regular infarty units all die to 1 shot unless its a leg or arm. So why doesnt it work here?

Gun Crew. You need to shoot like 3 bullets in each crew member in the ass or soemthing because the damage model is fucked up, and they try to run you over while youre shooting at them. Ridicullous.

Basically everything you want to do as an infantryman is broken, messed up in some sort of way that needs stupid explainations and justifications of why it sucks or doesnt work, this just isnt worth the time and frustration. The refusal to acknowledge these problems is laughable. The value for the dollar this game offer is terribly low compared to the competition. It should be a F2P really and even then wouldnt hold an audience because its so frustratingly messed up.

^^^

These wall of text BS replies trying to convince you to fool yourself into believing some how a man in a tower shouldnt die to a bullet shot in the head is big part of the reason I left and wont be commming back. Listen to yourselves. Pathetic.

One of the worst communities ever in a mmo, only the lowest of the low, worst of the wort still play this game, and they dont help the games cause. Hmm but maybe your right guys, maybe a man shouldnt die to a bullet shot in the head, definately not if hes a tank commander!! /sarcasmn No you guys are wrong, so are the devs who listened to you idiots all these years because they arnet any smarter themselves.

Have fun playing with nobody.