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All Posts by Daaken

All Posts by Daaken

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158 posts found
Originally posted by Apraxis

Ok.. we know

- there is Cyrodiil a huge open zone (i believe to remember that it should be bigger than GW2 WvW zones)

- we can enter Cyrodiil past lvl10, and as much as i remember correctly we will be "upleveled" of some kind?

- in Cyrodill will fight 3 factions against each other

- there will probable some keeps, and we can siege keeps

- one player can become emperor if certain circumstances are fullfilled

 

Thats about it.. as much as i can remember now.. can someone add more details, or correct me, if something wasn't really that exact or even wrong?

Do we know anything about different targets especially regarding the group scale? Objects or possibilities to play as a small group (2-5 players) or medium groups (10-20) or even solo? Sieges are for larger groups, and for large groups there will always something to do.. but it is more often than not more difficult to find a place for smaller scales of pvp.

Do we know anything about objectives in general?

Do we know anything about group tactics, character/class skills?

With other words i would be interested in a collection of all information around pvp/ava.

Cyrodiil is about the size of all other zones combined.  It is truly massive.  PvP in this game is the least likely system that needs worrying about.  It's the PvE endgame that has me all sorts of worried.

Originally posted by Alders
Originally posted by Daaken
Originally posted by munx4555

All I can say is people are putting a hell of alot of faith in a AI they havn't seen a thing of, storybricks itself is a company that is completly unproven atm.

Don't get me wrong, I hope the AI will be as awesome as they claim, but I try to be a realist atleast some of the time.

 

And even if the AI is as advanced as they claim, have anyone here played pvp in mmos lately? even when fighting against actual human players these roles are still important, without pvp becomes a zerg aswell.

And they will remain important until we see a mmorpg that has combat as advanced as mount and blade in which case we will really just see new roles such as: Infantry-Archer-Cavlary.

In my opinions roles are a must in a Mmorpg, it dosnt have to be the original trinity, but if the need for certain roles just isnt there, you will end up with a zerg mentality.

 

 

I really hope it works out, and dosnt become a boring zerg like gw2, but I don't see anyway around the inevitable chessboard with only pawns problem.

  No such thing as a tank in PvP

 

That's part of the problem.  There should be.

And how are you going to force other players to attack the heavily armored tank in full plate with a shield when there's a squishy Wizard 10 meters behind him?  There's a reason why Tanks, and to a lesser degree Healers to not work in a PvP environment, because smart tactics will always outdo rigid archetypes.

Originally posted by munx4555

All I can say is people are putting a hell of alot of faith in a AI they havn't seen a thing of, storybricks itself is a company that is completly unproven atm.

Don't get me wrong, I hope the AI will be as awesome as they claim, but I try to be a realist atleast some of the time.

 

And even if the AI is as advanced as they claim, have anyone here played pvp in mmos lately? even when fighting against actual human players these roles are still important, without pvp becomes a zerg aswell.

And they will remain important until we see a mmorpg that has combat as advanced as mount and blade in which case we will really just see new roles such as: Infantry-Archer-Cavlary.

In my opinions roles are a must in a Mmorpg, it dosnt have to be the original trinity, but if the need for certain roles just isnt there, you will end up with a zerg mentality.

 

 

I really hope it works out, and dosnt become a boring zerg like gw2, but I don't see anyway around the inevitable chessboard with only pawns problem.

WUUUUUUUUT?  Roles are important in PvP?  No such thing as a tank in PvP, and in general every player in PvP multi-task and take on different roles during the course of a fight.  Poor analogy on your part because al lit does is prove that you can remove Trinity in the face of smart AI yet still retain semblance of role structure.

https://twitter.com/intent/retweet?tweet_id=365150981861801984&original_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eqnexus.com%2F2013%2F08%2Fweekend-roundup-4-everquest-next-information-index-grows%2F&tw_i=365150981861801984&tw_p=tweetembed

 

Storybricks @Storybricks
 

What we are trying to show is that once you remove the boundaries of a scripted AI having a trinity or not becomes a minor issue.

 

 

Wow, who da thunk it!  This is why people shouldn't be so upset over the removal of the trinity.  As I said in other posts, it is common sense to know the archaic Trinity system breaks down in the face of Smart A.I.  So you can either quit complaining and change your mindset, quit comparing it to a game like GW2, or continue living in the MMO middle ages with your archaic game design.

 

 

 

 
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by CalmOceans

The new "thing" in MMO is artificially grouping people together.

MMO are no longer about dependency but about being able to solo on any class, at any level, and anywhere.

The result is that people don't talk, they don't form a community and most know no one on the server, at best they know their guild and that's about it.

These people become social recluse in the game and lack the ability and social network to form groups.

 The way new MMO are trying to fix this is with artificial bandaids, so people can imagine they actually have a community in their game.

GW2 calls them Public quests, EQNext calls them rallying calls, Rift calls them rifts, WoW calls them dungeon finders, FFXIV calls them Fates.

 In EQ, everyone knew each other on the server, we made our own groups, our own raids, we didn't need these bandaids. We knew the people we grouped with and made an effort to get to know the ones we didn't, so we could build out our social network and build the server community.

MMO have truly become casual and excuses for multiplayer games, where the community is so incredibly weak that they are unable to form their own groups.

Unless you're grouping with bots, it's not artificial: it's grouping.

Unless you're soloing, you're grouping -- and dependent on others to do their job.

So these aren't "artificial bandaids" by any stretch.  They're obvious ease-of-use fixes to the clunky archaic systems of the past.

Certainly if you want the most tight-nit community possible, you stick them into a seething, stinking pit of poor game mechanics, unnecessary hassles, mandatory grouping, and other hardships.  The nature of such a game dramatically limits its appeal to a niche.  Then, because grouping is required, the remaining players will desperately band together and do everything in their power to keep each other playing.  And as a result of suffering the brutal hardships of the game together, they'll become some of the closest gaming friends possible.

I'm being totally serious here.  That's what would happen.

But it's kinda like a war vet saying, "We should start a war because there isn't enough brotherhood in the world."  Yes, if you put people together in a desperate struggle to survive, forcing them through hell, they will cling to some of the tightest friendships the world has ever known.  But...it's just not worth war.

Similarly, gaming comraderie is certainly more limited in good games, but it's not worth making a game shitty just to have a tighter community.

 Very well said and I agree 100%.

Originally posted by xray00

It has nothing to do with gear but rather with making a dungeon feel like a dungeon. Dungeons are about a small group of people entering, exploring and conquering. When a dungeon is not instanced and you can have dozens of groups working through them.

Dungeons are about isolation. They are about overcoming the current occupants. They are not about camping or fighting with other adventurers for content.

I've never understood why people oppose instanced  dungeons. If you don't want to run them because they are instanced and it breaks your 'immersion' (now there is a joke in an mmo but that aside).

Because the thrill of meeting someone in the last likely place and forming a social bond pretty damn entertaining. I'll never forget the First time I stepped foot in Glendon Wood Dungeon or Black Death Catacomb while playing Asheron's Call or Stonehenge Barrow's in DAoC.  The same can not be said for any generic instanced dungeon in any other game I played in the last 7 or 8 years.

Originally posted by Galadourn
well, having skills bound to weapons might seem restrictive at first, but it makes sense if you think it over a bit; a piercing attack would hardly be executable with a great hammer or mace, for example, so it makes sense to have it restricted to certain other weapons (rapier, for example). LIkewise a cleave attack isn't fitting for a 1h weapon. I's less of an issue than it sounds really.

 Again no one is asking to have every skill available for every weapon.  It isn't hard to give a pool of skills to each weapon that match the flavor and aesthetic of said weapon.  Options, even if limited are better then rigid GW2 style skills that never change.

Originally posted by OfficialFlow

I have to politely as possible say, No i dont like it

Why?

because in its core it is still WoW sure it has new and innovative mechanics as well, but to me its not enough

not enough reasons?

the skill effects are too flashy, the cities are badly scaled and too empty

Combat looks chaotic even though its trinity, due to too flashy skill visuals

Combat is trinity based

Linear storyline

Level system

Music

Forced grouping

now what i think are good things

............

good art design (not ugly graphics)

well as you see the bad things far out weight the good so i dont even know why i bothered to post a reply

This is exactly the reason why I do not like it.  I keep trying to watch video's, read forums, and get in with the game but it all boils back to the one thing that has ruined MMO's for the last few years.  Lack of endgame, boring combat and nothing original.  I really hope this game fails, not because I am a hater but because I get sick of seeing the same pre-hype for the same thing every time a Themepark WoW clone gets released.  If any site should not like this game it is this one but for what ever twisted reason this game continues to grow in hype.

Originally posted by FinalFikus
Originally posted by Waterlily

Decreased, I don't believe that they have a working combat system that doesn't revolve around DPS.

When you remove tank, healers and pullers, and likely CC since they're non-tab, all you're left with is DPS.

To support a community and grouping you need clearly defined roles, removing trinity and replacing it with multiclassing does the reverse.

Trinity combat creates elitists, not community.

Non combat roles create community. Communities form from mutual interest in creation. Mutual interests in destruction creates teams of d-bags that advocate for themselves instead of the world (game world).

Developers artificially nerf and empower different roles in trinity games anyway. Have people not realized that making your class not suck anymore isn't content worth waiting for? Or developers ruining your class with a nerf? People still falling for that?

That's how gamers get ripped off, not how they form a community. Creation forms community. Addiction simply need company. there is a difference. Which one do you really want? a real community or company for your misery?

 Exactly right.

 

The way in which the developers are hoping to build community is through a non traditional system with Smart A.I., huge 3 month long public types of quests that span the spectrum of building a city and protecting it to dealing with a menacing threat.  The possibilities to create "meaningful" community aspects are present in spades.  We no longer have to worry about having all the problems that are associated with Trinity based group composition.

Originally posted by Ecoces

if you need a game to promote mechanics that FORCE people to group with you ... you are the problem. I have run with groups constantly in EQ2, WoW, Guild Wars 2, Rift and countless other "solo MMORPGs".

 

see thats the beauty of MMORPGs right now,  people have options, they can either solo or they can group IF THEY WANT. recently in guild wars 2 my guild took 2 groups and started over, just running from event to event leveling up some new players from another guild game. it was amazing and fun but if someone wanted to go and do their own thing they could by themselves.

 

forced grouping to do anything in a game is bad game design, sorry but someone has to say it. sure there should be some content that can only be done as a group however designing the whole game NOW around the concept of "you must group or get left behind" is destined to fail.

 

so to all those out there saying they can't find groups or the community feeling and games need to force grouping. its most likely YOUR attitude that's keeping people from interacting and grouping with you.

 Agreed!

 

Also I am one of those advocates who after 14 years playing MMO's still consider Guilds the perennial social construct and interactive mode.  That's not to say I've never carried on a cool and enjoyable conversation or have never interacted with others in an MMO but the primary way I do so is through my guild mates. Other players are just there to create the sense of virtuality that a single player game can not recreate.  Look at it like this, do you converse with every person you meet during the course of a day?  I suspect most do not, they go about their own business....this is the same scenario in an MMO.

Originally posted by ClassicEQ
Originally posted by GrayKodiak
Originally posted by ClassicEQ
Originally posted by Fionn
Originally posted by ClassicEQ
Originally posted by Fionn
Originally posted by fizzlesticks
Originally posted by TaliskerDev These 4 abilities are earned over the progression of the class. 
 

Whaat??? So you're saying there will be a time we don't even have all our 8 abilities? What are you people thinking?

-This is the same in GW2, you start with 1 ability and level up more abilities over time.  Nothing is wrong with it and in GW2, you had all 4 abilities very quickly.

- The reason for this is it mainly gives you time to learn each ability independently.

- Another thing to remember - You have your class with 4 abilities, but you can customize your other 4 abilities based on 40 classes of abilities.  If you want a Warrior who can Mage Teleport.. you can do that.  

 

 

 

I'm worried everyone will acquire the Mage/Wizard class through multi classing. Which means everyone will be able to teleport. Which means no interdependence. Everyone can do everything. Basically a solo game like gw2. Very disappointing if this is the case! I love EQ.

I'm not worried.  Each class supposedly has a different ways of movement.  So you will have a lot of diversity.  

And what good does that do if everyone can acquire every class? You won't need each other.

Just because you can have every class doesn't mean you can be every class...at the same time.

I am more worried about this carrying over to crafting and people maxing out every crafting spec at once, which was a big problem with the new darkfall system. This was certainly not the case with SWG or UO and I hope, since they keep paying homage to SWG in conversation they do not go that route.

Back to your point, you may have a healer class an undead CC class and a ranged DPS class edit:A system already demonstrated in talent trees and various other systems all throughout MMO space  but unless they let you swap in fractions of a second I doubt you will be able to heal yourself CC the undead and Range DPS the enemy all at once, and I seriously doubt they are stupid enough to let that scenario into the game. So you will have to choose which one you want to do and then find other people who wish to do the other two.

 

 

Also,

Back to the main point of this thread, didn't at some point in this massively unorganized roll out one of the devolpers say there were weapon classes and then sub types? I could have sworn someone said This is the sword class and this sword is of the fire sword subclass.

If that is the case it could be much more expansive than just, I want to cast fireballs so I use a scepter...maybe different scepters do different things...this would be much better than the GW2 model..so much better.

Of course you can't use all the classes during a single fight. You will have to find people willing to be that class for a group. But I'm talking about out of combat interdependence that makes up a huge part of the game. Traveling (SoW, teleports, bard song) or just needed a necro or a levitate or whatever. Having unique skills are very important within a good mmo community.

Don't be stuck In the EQ mindset please.  There are plenty of ways to convey and reinforce OOC interdependence without using skills needed to be placed on a hot bar.  Asheron's Call, DAoC and others have managed to reinforce community and team work without having to rely on this sole construct.

Originally posted by TaliskerDev

Lots of good conversation going on here. Figured it would be easier to make an account and respond to everyone than send telegraphs via twitter. 

Please don't take anything I saw here as flippant or condescending,etc.  This is good conversation and I thank you all for participating. 

Let me clear this up for everyone. The current plan is that each class has a pair of weapons that they can use. Each of these weapons  gives the class 4 unique abilities themed for the class. These 4 abilities are earned over the progression of the class.  So if a class uses 2 swords and a spear then they get 4 abilities for the sword and 4 for the spear.   This list does not grow beyond 4. 

Why did we choose this design?  

As we stated in the class panel our many classes is each very focused. Very very focused on a particular gameplay style.  We also want each to be very visually distinct and identifiable.  Both of these goals become impossible to reach with too many abilities

 As has been pointed out n this thread, in EverQuest Next you are able to become any one of 40 classes at launch. These will feature a wide variety of equipment choices, ability load outs and multi-class options.  On top of that you can mix character abilities between classes for even more customization. Trust me there is something for everyone here.

Another thing that I cannot overstate - this is not your typical mmo. Our class and progression model cannot be accurately compared to anything on the market today.  We have played the games you have played. We know exactly what you are talking about when you bring up issues. Our hope is that together we can make a game we all want to play.

Please keep up the feedback, you guys/gals rock. 

Talisker

Thanks for coming on here Darrin hopefully I'll be able to convey my worry here instead of being limited to 140 characters on Twitter.  As I've previous stated having your weapon skills fixed was the primary reason I quit GW2, I am sure the Dev's over at Arena Net can also show you the many posts I made during beta as to why this is bad design, especially in a game that attempts to give players freedom and choice.

 

In any game that allows weapons to also function as skill acquisition there is choice on what a player can slot on his/her hotbar for example in WoW with my Warrior I have the choice to play with certain skills such as Hamstring I may or may not find such an ability useful.  Example in GW2 using Whirlwind Attack is not optimal in many situations. In WoW I had choice, in GW2 I did not.  This is compounded by the limited action bar we have.  I prefer the ability much like The Secret World or GW1.  I think you can still get the visually distinct and identifiable gamplay down while still giving players the choice.  Hell TBH I'd take illusion of choice if I could get it. 

 

The only positive and the reason why I say this isn't a total deal breaker (as it was for me in GW2) is there we were limited to 8 classes, and we have over 40 in EQN.  I am unsure as how many classes will have access to 2-handed Swords but I would suspect it to be much higher then 8.

 

Originally posted by doc_shevek

I often don't post on forums because people are not actually willing to discuss views they disagree with. Instead, people are claiming I am a graphics whore and gameplay is king. So, rather than engage in a discussion about those concerns it is far simpler to attack the concerns themselves and make them seem trivial. If you find the concern to be trivial, you should just avoid the thread.

For example, if I am at a bus stop and two men are having an animated discussion over whether or not a sports team is any good, I would not interject if I found the conversation to be frivolous. "Hey, sports is dumb! real men discuss foreign policy!" However, if I felt I had a valid insight into their discussion, then I would chime in and hope to elevate their discussion beyond mere argument.

 So only your opinion counts?  If I don't like your opinion I should go elsewhere?

 

I think not. 

Originally posted by vidiotking
Originally posted by Daaken
Originally posted by Onomas
Originally posted by vidiotking

Are people just being difficult? Do you not want to understand what others are saying?

EQN looks like a disney cartoon, i.e. a kids game.

EQ 'vets' think it should look like a game catered more to adults.

Two way street. I am also an old gamer, and dislike cartoony graphics. But EQN does not look too cartoony nor unrealistic.

And graphics are a poor excuse to shoot the game down. As older gamers its more about content, features, freedom, etc. I care less about the graphics as long as I don't have to suffer through another new aged wow clone cookie cutter mmo with the entitlement era kids wanting everything dumbed down and easy.

Roughly........

 OMG this.

 

I've said time and time again I'd play Tiddlywinks Online if the gameplay was amazing and offered me hard challenging content with a focus on a virtual world.  Great thing is EQN offers me most everything I've wanted from an MMO since Asheron's Call and the last thing I will complain about is how it looks.

So, the last thing you would complain about is how it looks, but you would complain about it? People don't like the way it looks, is that so hard to understand.... Isn't that  a valid complaint?

 Ever heard of this thing called figure of speech?  Do not twist or read into what I wrote when it's meant to be tongue in cheek.

 

I'll just keep it at this sense you failed to grasp the humor.  I could care less about graphics,,,,I'd play EQN if it was stickmen. 

 

Does that make it any more clear?

If you enjoy the same ole same level, instance, collect loot, grind, beat scripted encounters then by all means you'll enjoy it.  Some of us will be passing because we crave something just a bit more unique game play and innovative design.

Based on what we knew about Story Bricks and Sony Store and the game being a sandbox I was pretty sure the game would feature a true dynamic world with lot of constructability.  What I didn't know was it would be Voxel Based so that was a pleasant surprise.

 

Couple this with the fact EQN features all the major things I enjoy about an MMO.  Such as a limited action bar to promote deck building synergies.  Multi-Classes to promote player choice and freedom.  Action combat to promote skillful play and ever changing fluid dynamics (instead of that boring tab target stand still and memorize a script).  In fact I would have to say my hope and appeal to this game has grown exponentially and is shaping up to be the best MMO I've ever played, if they can pull off the things they said.

Originally posted by Onomas
Originally posted by vidiotking

Are people just being difficult? Do you not want to understand what others are saying?

EQN looks like a disney cartoon, i.e. a kids game.

EQ 'vets' think it should look like a game catered more to adults.

Two way street. I am also an old gamer, and dislike cartoony graphics. But EQN does not look too cartoony nor unrealistic.

And graphics are a poor excuse to shoot the game down. As older gamers its more about content, features, freedom, etc. I care less about the graphics as long as I don't have to suffer through another new aged wow clone cookie cutter mmo with the entitlement era kids wanting everything dumbed down and easy.

Roughly........

 OMG this.

 

I've said time and time again I'd play Tiddlywinks Online if the gameplay was amazing and offered me hard challenging content with a focus on a virtual world.  Great thing is EQN offers me most everything I've wanted from an MMO since Asheron's Call and the last thing I will complain about is how it looks.

Originally posted by tixylix

8 skills = no skill to play.

I want to keep track of 30+ skills, that's when you're really taxing your brain. 

 

Sadly people are apparently too stupid to do that now even though WoW has been the most popular MMO for the best part of a decade.

 You sir are so wrong in so many ways.

 

Overtaxing your brain is not the same as skillful play.  Even the best players will play the UI and not the game in such a hot bar heavily focused game.  I understand you may like this game style, but many do not so no sense getting into a he said, she said argument over which is better.  Might want  to take your prerogative to another sub forum as your total lack of decorum doesn't sit well with me.

Originally posted by Sovrath

or you could look at it differently.

It's not that skills are "bound to weapons" but that weapons allow players to utilize certain skills.

You aren't going to have a dagger do a "heavy smash". You aren't going to have a two hand sword do "quick stabs".

You aren't going to have a longsword do "far shot".

Yea but this is why I say give each weapon a pool of skills that match its flavor and aesthetic.  I'll use GW2 as an example:  Mainly talking about Warrior.  The Warrior has 2 charges/gap closers on the great sword side of abilities.  Realistically I will never need more then 1 game closer/mobility charge etc.  SO for me, GS #3 ability Whirlwind is redundant and if I was playing any other game, that skill would never get placed on my hotbar.  Because in say WoW I have the choice on what to use.  And while it may or may not be fine in context, it is something I hardly ever used in GW2.  Therefore I worked on the premise of having 4 weapon slots.  If for example I had a choice on what to slot in that #3 ability slot I would pick something that snared, stunned, or rooted...if that choice wasn't there then I'd pick a weapon ability that did more damage.  It's rather easy to design a pool of abilities for each weapon, even if it's a small pool, that fits the flavor of the weapon and then in turn give the player the option what to slot out of a pool of 8 (an example) in those 4 slots.

 

Another reason why I dislike this is because sometimes developers are ass backwards and their procedures get over looked and I'll use GW2 again.  This time the Rifle for the Warrior, it was really frustrating to me to have to use a rotation that looked like this. 4, 2, 3.  Having to always start my rotation with the #4 keypress to get the Vulnerability up was really weird and something I never liked about the weapon system.  If given the choice, I would switch #4 to the 2 slot, put #3 in the 4 slot and move #2 to the 3 slot.  That way my rotation remained consistent. 2,3,4,- 2,3,4 etc.

Originally posted by Redfeather75

 


Originally posted by Daaken
This is the single greatest aspect I dislike about EQN and have pledged to ensure this gets changed.  Having weapons skills bound to a rigid inflexible design is the prime reason that forced me away from GW2.  I do not understand how having such an open ended class structure for the other 4 slots but keeping the weapon skills static is good.  I have explained this to Darrin McPherson and I am hoping they take constructive criticism to heart.

 

  [*] @TaliskerDev @Jizomeo Darrin I have a very important question: Are the 4 weapon abilities fixed for each weapon or do I have a pool to use? [*]  

  •  
  • Darrin McPherson ?@TaliskerDev9 Aug @Zederok @Jizomeo fixed for each class. @TaliskerDev @Jizomeo Any plans to either change? or is there another way to differentiate the weapons skills so no 2 classes weapons r same   @Zederok @TaliskerDev @Jizomeo They are different, that's whole the idea. The core 4 are unique for every class for all weapon type they use @syrinityhusky @TaliskerDev @Jizomeo Still don't like having such a rigid weapon skill system, totally destroyed GW2 for me. I like choice
  Darrin McPherson ?@TaliskerDev14h @Zederok @syrinityhusky @Jizomeo in other games did different weapons mean anything? Usually they are models only and change nothing right?  

 

GW2 only has 8 classes though. And Arenanet hasn't been planning on adding any new classes.
EQN says it's gonna have 40 classes and keep adding new classes.
If for example one wanted to play a necromancer, then I seriously doubt there will be 1 undead summoner class and 39+ classes that can't do that.

No I agree with you here, out of those 40 classes surely there will be more choice and you will be able to pick a class whose weapons skills match up with what you would of pick in the first place.  SO this I agree with, which is why it isn't a deal breaker for me, but it's very close.

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