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All Posts by h0tNstilettos

All Posts by h0tNstilettos

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Originally posted by Wizardry
Originally posted by Sircampsalot08
FFXIV is also showing the subscription model still works.

Funny thing is MANY never knew FFXI existed and now i still see tons fo gamer's playing ONLY Blizzard games.So it seems lots of naive gamer's believing only Blizzard exists in this world of gaming.

Truth is that there are not many sub based games and for a reason,MOST games i see coming out are complete garbage,you couldn't pay me to play them.Devs are not stupid,if they thought their game could warrant MORE MONEY,in a subscription model,they would do it in a heartbeat.

There are two trends right now,well three

1 Rush out a completely unfinished game,charge a finished price for it but get around charge backs for selling an unfinished product by claiming early access.

2 Rush out complete junk and just go f2p,reel them in with easy leveling then hit them hard once you have them hooked.

3 Make a half decent game "still rushed and unfinished",go subscription to get as much extra money as you can then turn to f2p since the game was already designed cheaply to support f2p.

Bottom line is that devs are making a lot of games that are no where near Triple A and not worth a sub fee.

True, almost every MMO since WoW has seemed that way, and then a Triple A MMO FFXIV:ARR came and doesn't fall into any of those. Wondered when I would see the day.

Originally posted by gervaise1
Originally posted by h0tNstilettos

Abysmal!!?? FFXIV has millions of players. That is NOT abysmal. Sure it's still a lot less than WoW, but considering FFXIV's population has continued to grow and swallow everything in its path since it came out almost 2 years ago, you can't say abysmal. FFXIV, unlike other MMOs doesn't really see any pre-patch droughts due to how much content they release and more frequent than any other MMO at every 1.5 months, and 3 months for major content patches.

Then again the OP was misleading as FFXIV has not been out 5 years as that horrendous, worst MMO of all time was scrapped and shut down as they remade a completely new game from the ground up as FFXIV: A Realm Reborn that has only been out almost 2 years. So maybe you were referring to that abysmal FFXIV that was scrapped.

There is nothing "abysmal" about FFXIV and yes FFXIV does release new content on a regular basis however:

  • FFXIV was not closed down whilst a complete new game was made; it is the same game albeit "lovingly" reworked
  • FFXIV probably doesn't have "millions" of players; we know (from SE's recently published end of year results) that all 3 of SE's mmos made c. 6B yen last quarter. This revenue includes any box sales, cash shop revenue and subs. It represents stable revenue. It is good but if 100% of it were from FFXIV and 100% of it was from subscriptions then @$14 a sub Torval in another thread calculated it would be about 600k subs; at $11 a sub it could be 1.4M; and yes at $2 a sub it would be millions. As mentioned however the revenue was for all mmos and included box sales and any cash shop revenue in all mmos that SE run.
  • And revenue for all mmos for all four quarters was about 6B. The message SE are sending out is stable.
  • Last year SE said it had 1M+ subscribers across all 3 games; they haven't said this year. We don't know what that meant however. DQX, for example, has a 3 day sub option we just assume - wrongly - that it means monthly subs. Maybe DQX had a special weekend event last year and there was a sub spike. Or it could be FFXIV's China launch; this isn't bringing in much money yet (source: regional revenue for Asia for all SE products excluding Japan went up from just 0.2B yen to 0.3B yen could have brought in "many" extra subscribers. Who knows. It doesn't matter.
Stable. Good. No problems. Nothing to suggest regular content will stop. That is SE's mmo message in their recent results. No need to push the boat out however. No need to get defensive or exaggerate.

 

That thing about playerbase from all 3 of their MMOs that yourself and others spread around was a mistake made my Polygon earlier this year that they later apologized for. They published a report from March 2014 showing SE's subs in 2013 for their MMOs. Many publications trusted Polygon and also posted the same thing and it spread like wildfire. Scroll to the bottom of this article to read the mistake. http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/2/7480177/square-enix-final-fantasy-14-final-fantasy-11-dragon-quest-10-subscribers

Also, yes FFXIV was closed down. They kept it up for a little while as a free game while they worked on FFXIV: A Realm Reborn. Then they shut down FFXIV and FFXIV: A Realm Reborn was released in late 2013. It was not 'reworked' as some people seem to believe. The only thing brought from FFXIV to ARR was some names of some dungeons, places, NPCs, etc, and a continuing story. ARR was a new game created from the ground up, not 'reworked'.

I should also point out that SE does not use the word subscribers because not every country uses subscription for the game ever since it released for China late 2014. China for example uses game cards for time. FFXIV does have millions of players. There are regular queues just to get on the servers, and there are websites such as ffxivsoul and others that show active players vs non-active.

Originally posted by observer
Originally posted by Bascola
Originally posted by observer
Originally posted by Bascola

What a silly question. Wow is by no means going to be the last one or the longest running.

  1. FFXI (13 Years, 2 years more than WoW)
  2. EvE Online (12 Years, 1 year longer than WoW)
  3. FFXIV (5 Years)
Off the top of my head, you should do some research next time.
 

Haha, wow.. so 3 out of dozens of MMO's out there.

The truth is, even WoW isn't completely p2p.  It has a starter edition up to level 20 indefinitely.  It's also f2p on their test server whenever it's up.  EvE can be considered f2p also due to their plex system.  FFXIV seems to be the lone stranger to everyone else, especially with the announcement of ESO going b2p.

That list only proves that those older MMO's were designed in a different era, with a different model, when players accepted it.  Times have changed since then.  B2P and F2P are here to stay.

Players still accept it because they are still around and going strong. EvE is not F2P you need to subscribe to play. FFXI you conveniently ignored. Dark Age of Camelot (14 years, 3 years more than WoW) you ignored too.

Those older MMO's? WOW is just as old.

In EvE you can convert ISK to buy PLEX, which extends your game time.  The initial sub might be required still, but after that, you can keep playing indefinitely if you get more PLEX.  WoW will soon be adopting this system also.

I didn't conveniently ignore those games.  Re-read what i wrote.

"those older MMO's were designed in a different era, with a different model, when players accepted it. ".

I also dont see how you can say those games are still going strong, when their sub numbers are abysmal.  They might be strong for niche and nostalgic players, but that's it.

 

Abysmal!!?? FFXIV has millions of players. That is NOT abysmal. Sure it's still a lot less than WoW, but considering FFXIV's population has continued to grow and swallow everything in its path since it came out almost 2 years ago, you can't say abysmal. FFXIV, unlike other MMOs doesn't really see any pre-patch droughts due to how much content they release and more frequent than any other MMO at every 1.5 months, and 3 months for major content patches.

Then again the 3rd post this thread was misleading as FFXIV has not been out 5 years as that horrendous, worst MMO of all time was scrapped and shut down as they remade a completely new game from the ground up as FFXIV: A Realm Reborn that has only been out almost 2 years. So maybe you were referring to that abysmal FFXIV that was scrapped.

Originally posted by Kopogero
Originally posted by h0tNstilettos
Originally posted by Abuz0r

Every MMO released in 10 years has aimed to be cheaper yet comparable to WoW.  WoW is a $15/ mo game and it's worth every penny of it's $15/mo.  The reason we can't find games we like is because games aren't worth their subs, except for WoW.  The next game that finally is the 'wow killer' isn't going to be cheaper, it's going to be bigger, better and more expensive, and players are going to love paying every penny to be in the experience.

We all whine and moan about f2p, item malls, p2p, b2p... while the fact is a true first class MMO is worth every penny of it's sub.  Not some chinese garbage dressed up to satisfy a western audience, I mean a real MMO that leaves you feeling the way you felt the first time you watched 300 every time you log in.

Can a developer please aim to make a MMO of this calibur and quit giving us less than or equal to WoWs?

 

Thanks

 

I can't take your topic post seriously when you make a comment like "The reason we can't find games we like is because games aren't worth their subs, except for WoW."

Have you not heard of Final Fantasy XIV? It's the biggest MMO since WoW, even bigger than Guild Wars 2 or SWTOR. There's a reason it hasn't gone free to play and millions of people enjoy it and why many players from other MMOs, including WoW, have permanently quit them to play FFXIV. FFXIV releases more content at a faster rate than any MMO in history. They release a huge content patch every 3 months, and smaller ones every 1.5, and one of them added a new class even though it was just a content patch and not an expansion, and the expansion coming up has just as much content as game did at launch. FFXIV is worth its sub more than WoW is, unless you're not caught up in WoW, but assuming you're referring to current endgame, FFXIV has WoW beat by miles going by new content released with patches and expansion. In example, FFXIV released more content in their last patch than what the WoD expansion had. No joke.

I remember at a time when I walked all the way to future shop only to have a last second though on FFXIV. This was when FFXIV was initially released, not reborn. Sadly, WOW ensured that PvE centric, casual raid MMORPG's are not how I envision the future and FFXIV felt just like another clone. That combined with the epic fail on its initialrelease made me lose complete interest. I'm glad game is doing well though. I just know its just not the game for me, especially how PvP wise was lacking severely.

To each their own. I respect your viewpoint, but to throw it out there, Yoshi and them intentionally played cautious with A Realm Reborn because they wanted it to be very inviting to new MMO players and casuals, while still having some hardcore content. On top of this, the PS3 is holding them back. They have expressed things they'd like to do but can't until they drop PS3 support, which was suppose to be by first expansion, but apparently decided to continue supporting PS3 through Heavensward expansion. Moving forward they will be including more hardcore stuff and going new directions now that they have a solid foundation. It's true that WoW has far more raiding simply due to 10 years growth. The reason over 70% of WoW players have said they like FFXIV is because it reminds them of the vanilla WoW and a little of BC and Cataclysm. But then there's the group that dislikes it for that very reason because they want something super new and wildly different. FFXIV does do some new things, but the overall foundation is still traditional in style. Also, both FFXIV and WoW has things the other doesn't. FFXIV is popular not because it's something radically new and different, but because it's a celebration of the traditional MMORPG and is the most polished traditional style MMO out there. What I can give to WoW is PVP, which is superior, but over time FFXIV's PVP may evolve, and of course WoW has more content, but referring to quality not quantity. Kind of have to look at it like when WoW was new before it had time to evolve.

Originally posted by Abuz0r

Every MMO released in 10 years has aimed to be cheaper yet comparable to WoW.  WoW is a $15/ mo game and it's worth every penny of it's $15/mo.  The reason we can't find games we like is because games aren't worth their subs, except for WoW.  The next game that finally is the 'wow killer' isn't going to be cheaper, it's going to be bigger, better and more expensive, and players are going to love paying every penny to be in the experience.

We all whine and moan about f2p, item malls, p2p, b2p... while the fact is a true first class MMO is worth every penny of it's sub.  Not some chinese garbage dressed up to satisfy a western audience, I mean a real MMO that leaves you feeling the way you felt the first time you watched 300 every time you log in.

Can a developer please aim to make a MMO of this calibur and quit giving us less than or equal to WoWs?

 

Thanks

 

I can't take your topic post seriously when you make a comment like "The reason we can't find games we like is because games aren't worth their subs, except for WoW."

Have you not heard of Final Fantasy XIV? It's the biggest MMO since WoW, even bigger than Guild Wars 2 or SWTOR. There's a reason it hasn't gone free to play and millions of people enjoy it and why many players from other MMOs, including WoW, have permanently quit them to play FFXIV. FFXIV releases more content at a faster rate than any MMO in history. They release a huge content patch every 3 months, and smaller ones every 1.5, and one of them added a new class even though it was just a content patch and not an expansion, and the expansion coming up has just as much content as game did at launch. FFXIV is worth its sub more than WoW is, unless you're not caught up in WoW, but assuming you're referring to current endgame, FFXIV has WoW beat by miles going by new content released with patches and expansion. In example, FFXIV released more content in their last patch than what the WoD expansion had. No joke.

I find it amusing how ill-informed people are in reference to Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward. Sure, you can dislike the game, but at least know the facts. This will also reference the few people that said "There hasn't been a successful, big budget quality MMO since WoW."

Final Fantasy XIV has over 4 million subs and growing. It is the most successful subscription based MMO since WoW and has released more content than WoW in the same amount of time, and at the rate it's going it will surpass the amount of content in WoW within half of WoW's total lifetime. It already has as much content in the first year and a half as WoW did after 3 to 4 years.

Now in reference to the expansion not being a game release, but an expansion...FFXIV's updates released every 3 months are like expansions in other MMOs. But FFXIV's actual expansion literally has as much content as the game did at launch. No MMO in history releases updates or expansions with as much content as FFXIV. Yoshi P, the producer, has said himself it will have a game's worth of content and have as much content as A Realm Reborn had at launch. They are literally treating the expansion like a game release, rather than expansion release, because it basically is content-wise.

I can tell after reading peoples' reasons why FFXIV's crafting should not be on the list are obviously people that have not played FFXIV since the first so and so months of the game. I read reasons such as the crafting is not rewarding or viable, the economy is not player driven, or it's 1 click crafting. Those that say 1 click crafting have not crafted in FFXIV, so I'm not even taking their comment seriously. As for everyone else; those that talk about it not being rewarding or viable, or the economy not player driven I can already tell have not played the game since those things were true. Not so much now. The crafting in FFXIV is extremely rewarding and viable, the economy is player driven, and it is extremely balanced as the market is never 1 sided. I have been playing MMOs since EQ1 and have played pretty much every major MMO. FFXIV has by far one of the best crafting systems and markets I have seen. If you were to rewind to the first so and so months of the game I would not call it the best, but with additions from various patches that have been released it is far and away superior to what it was closer to launch. So unless you have crafted in the past few months at endgame crafting levels, your comments cannot even be considered as valid reasons anymore, and the system is even better since 2.3 released early July with desynthesis and other additions. Even before endgame crafting there is plenty of ways to make good gil from crafting.
 

I agree with ARR being #1. FFXIV: ARR is probably one of the top 3 best MMOs I have ever played, and I have been playing MMOs since EQ1. WoW is a good MMO, but crap in comparison to ARR. The only thing WoW has going for it is content only because it has been out longer, so that really isn't a fair comparison. Go back to the early days of Vanilla WoW and compare to ARR during the same amount of time post release, and WoW is a laughing stock. So just imagine ARR once it has had as much time to grow as WoW and other well established MMOs have. ARR takes a lot of stuff that has been done before in MMOs before it, but does it better, plus it has some innovations between the familiar, some of which is not in the game yet but already planned.

 

Also, a few people in these comments have never played FFXIV: ARR, yet are bashing it. How do I know they haven't played it? . . . because they say things like SE took the same game that failed and re-released it. No they didn't. The game is completely different. It was rebuilt from the ground up. Only things carried over are the names of people and some location names, etc. The story continues from the destruction of the old world.


Originally posted by Lissyl

I think the score is a little low.  Not -real- low...but some.  I think the Value score throws it off; 3 month content patches is a very good pace, particularly for adding in raids/instances/etc.  Any faster and people won't all have time to necessarily enjoy the new content, and any slower and you're in WoW territory.  At half the price of any other competing game, there is simply no way that a 7 for value is fair unless you're comparing it to the supposed 'free' and completely overlooking what you need in a 'free' game to match up to what this game is giving you.

I agree 100%.


Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by h0tNstilettos

I'm actually quite shocked at the people thinking this game is a 7. This game deserved nothing under a 9. It deserves a 9 minimum. It's not perfect, but very very good, especially considering the game was remade from the ground up in just two years

 

I've played MMORPGs for 10 years, including all the big name ones like EQ1, WoW, Rift, Terra, GW2, Maplestory, and ARR is by far the best I've played. It is only launch, and many features they wanted at launch will be coming in patch 2.1 in November.

I disagree.  ARR is a "good" game, but 7 is being generous.  The graphics are less than stellar.  The combat isn't that great.  The game doesn't innovate in any areas (it's by far the most cookie-cutter traditional MMO I've ever seen).  I won't bring up it's abysmal launch.

Imo, fans of Final Fantasy, or fans of traditional themepark MMOs should give ARR a try.  It's got a decent little story and has semi-decent amount of content.  However, the game lacks a lot of depth and innovation that many current and future MMOs have.  It's just your typical themepark MMO with tab target combat, done decently well.

A rating of 5-7 is deserved.  Anything more than that is nothing more than a fan boy rating that doesn't consider the whole package or contrast it to other innovative MMOs.

The crafting system and market in FF blows away the grand majority of the competitors. The depth is just fine. 

 

Furthermore, on a strictly merit-based rating system, a "good game" can per definition never be 5. It is rather 7 or 8. 9 being great; 10 being excellent (ign uses a similar system). In a system, where the ratings are based on comparison and distributed according to a normal contradiction, there are not enough mmorpgs  that beat FFXIV to put it anywhere below 7.

The crafting system in FF isn't anything special.  It's better than some, but not the best by far.

The breadcrumb trail of quests and forced story quest are so unimaginative and non-innovative that it has* to have points taken off for it.

The launch was by far the worst out of the dozens of AAA MMORPGS, and certainly not a representation of what I would expect from a pay to play game.  But I don't deduct any points for that, and the issues have been mostly cleared up already.

Instanced dungeons are simplistic and often boring.

The combat system is slow, clunky and extremely cookie cutter.

Zero innovation in story telling.  Most of the cutscenes don't even have voice overs.  You can't control anything in the story.  Your story is the same as everyone else. etc etc.

The FATE public quest system is horrible.  GW2 did it WAY better, and EQ2 is set to do open world events even greater than GW2.

I could go on and on.

FFXIV is a "good" game.  And as such, 5-7 is "good" and a rating it deserves.  8 9 and 10 are reserved for great and amazing/innovating games, and 1-4 are ratings reserved for terrible - bad games.

FFXIV is a solid 5-7 depending on your own personal preferences.  If you really like themepark, traditional MMOs, and really like the asian/FF theme, a 7 is a legit score.  If you really don't care for the game, you have to admit the game is at least a 5 or 6, because what it does do (even though it's nothing great, new or revolutionary) it does well enough.

But 8 9 or 10?

On what planet? lol.

There are a few scores between "good" and "bad", but you seem to omit them in your score system. 

If your "5-7" is for "good", and "1-4" is for terrible-bad games, where is your rating for "mediocre" and "okay" games? I.e. what is the rating for things between "bad" and "good"?

This is all semantics of course. Of interest is to behold the ign rating system at "http://www.ign.com/wikis/ign/Game_Reviews#".

That system you linked lines up with exactly what I said.

 

my 1-4 5-7 8-10 was generalized to keep the post at a reasonable word-count, but the essence of what I said is exactly with what you agree with.

IGN: 

6.0-6.9 - OKAY

 

5.0-5.9 - MEDIOCRE

FFXIV is somewhere between Mediocre and OK (as I already stated).  It does zero innovation and lacks creativity.  It's dated in many areas and isn't a perfect game.  Some systems are down right tacked-on feeling and don't even do a good job of imitating other MMOs in many areas.  Case in point, their story and fate systems are bland and boarder on terrible.

FFXIV is not a "Bad" game, but it's certainly not: 

8.0-8.9 - GREAT

or

9.0-9.9 - AMAZING

A highly subjective and weak argument may be made for

7.0-7.9 - GOOD

But then again, I already stated 5-7 is more than fair in my previous post, though considering other games that have released over the past few years, I would disagree with FFXIV being a 7, personally, but I wouldn't cry foul if someone said they felt it was a 7.

Maybe if FFXIV had released in it's current form around the same time Aion did, I could let an 8 slip, but not today.  Not even close.

Lol, there is no way you are very experienced in MMOs to think this game deserves a mediocre or okay rating. The original horrible FFXIV has a rating of 5.1 already, which you claim ARR deserves the same. ARR is leaps and bounds better than the original, AND better than most AAA titles out there. You also claim ARR does nothing new and innovative. There's only one other MMORPG that does crafting similar to ARR, though I don't remember the name of it, but it is nowhere near as good as ARRs. And let's not forget gathering. Other innovations include the Gold Saucer amusement park coming in a future patch, and let's not forget treasure hunting coming in the first patch 2.1, and Chocobo raising and breeding. Yes, raising pets has been done before, but ARR's companion system that where your chocobo can be a mount, battle companion, and the raising and breeding aspect for chocobos make this game's approach much more in-depth. Housing is also superior in this game compared to any MMORPG before it. You would know this if you've read about it. The Armoury system is very nice as well. There are other innovations slipping my mind. Let's not forget about how much ARR caters to solo players. Very few MMORPGs have such a balance between solo and group play. Let's not forget how superior the music and storyline are compared to most MMOs. Let's not forget how much more well designed the tutorial stages of the game are that introduce players at a nice pace. You are simply one of the people that think ARR does nothing innovative because it disguises itself as a traditional MMORPG. They did this intentionally. They took things that have been done before, but innovated them. Plus the things I mentioned not done before coming. It sounds to me like you think the game is not amazing unless it does everything completely different and new to the point where it's not even recognizable as an MMORPG.

 
 
 
 

I'm actually quite shocked at the people thinking this game is a 7. This game deserved nothing under a 9. It deserves a 9 minimum. It's not perfect, but very very good, especially considering the game was remade from the ground up in just two years

 

I've played MMORPGs for 10 years, including all the big name ones like EQ1, WoW, Rift, Terra, GW2, Maplestory, and ARR is by far the best I've played. It is only launch, and many features they wanted at launch will be coming in patch 2.1 in November.

Originally posted by Rusque

I was betting on 1-2 weeks before the forums get flooded by the "FFARR is not the best game ever I thought it was a few weeks ago!" posts. But I might have to edit down to 1 week until implosion.

At least everyone can go back to WoW for patch 5.4 until the next savior is picked.

ARR, the game itself, is not the problem here. As the OP said the game is excellent. Only problem is that leveling is way too fast, which creates many of the other issues mentioned. I am also a player that takes their time to enjoy everything in the game, and as a result I am not even at level 30 on my highest yet, but even I see FATEs being a major problem.

I've been fearing the same points the OP has made.

After reading the last few pages of this thread, and some earlier, including a guy that said FFXIV: ARR won't even get 10% the amount of subs WoW has, well I thought people should be aware . . .

During phase 3 of beta they ended up with over 1.5 million players (not talking about concurrent obviously). Once phase 4 came, which was open beta, I'm sure those numbers increased a lot, but I haven't read any official statement on this from phase 4 beta.

It was the single most played beta in the history of betas across all video games. They broke 1 world record here.

When launch came the amount of players playing were higher than even beta, though I never read an official release of the exact number, but considering the number from phase 3 and how it kept getting higher ever since, I'm sure it's safe to assume the game already has over 2 million players. Obviously game is still free to play, so can't say that number is in subs, but that is still a good sign. Post launch they broke 2 world records even with many players unable to play due to server congestion, though I don't remember what they were, but you can Google it.

It is the best MMO I have ever played personally, and I have played MMOs since EQ1. I've played WoW, GW2, Rift, Tera, Maplestory, etc. It takes the best of the familiar and some innovations and creates something marvelous.

However, despite how good the game is there is one thing that worries me . . .  the fast leveling. Leveling in this game is way too fast, and I believe it is going to be the game's downfall if something isn't done to solve the issue. It's even slightly faster than leveling in a non-MMO console RPG. The FATE system is what is making this possible. They either need to nerf FATE experience, or make FATEs spawn less often, or dramatically increase the amount of experience required to level. It would probably be better to change the FATEs in some way.

Originally posted by Bigmamajama
Originally posted by Xiaoki

Its awesome that they were able to rebuild an MMO in a year but its a bit disappointing that some features that were talked about numerous times before are several still updates away.


Its even more disappointing that they are willing to devote some time and effort to fixing Quality of Life issues. Yeah, server issues come first but I doubt that the programmers that would add quest tracking back into the game(for some stupid reason it was removed in phase 4 beta) would be the same people upgrading server queue system.


Also, disappointed to hear that they are unwilling to look at Fates. The experience gains from a full party chaining Fates is practically an exploit but the attitude suggests they are going to ignore it and hope it goes away.


Im really liking FF14 despite the issues but there are definite problems that need fixed and not everyone is going to patient and wait until some future update.


We dont want promises or apologies, we want action.

What do you mean by adding back quest trackers?  All my quests are tracked and listed on the right side of my screen, there are quest pointers on the map to help guide you to an NPC's?  What are you referring to,  flashing arrows on the ground that you can follow?  Or a button you can click to auto run you to your objective?

 

Can you please explain?

He means the ability to hide or show what quests are displayed in the duty tracker like most MMORPGs have. It was there in phase 3, then I noticed phase 4 and beyond it wasn't there. It's weird that they removed it.

Originally posted by aslan132
Originally posted by BadSpock

Not much about FFXIV:ARR is there?

Should be a more general column, not specific to the game IMO as it is MUCH more about themepark vs. sandbox.

 

FFXIV:ARR is definitely a themepark, as you said, unapologetically so.

ARR is also giving a ton of different rides, and in a lot of ways, allowing you the player to choose which to ride and which to skip, as well as which to repeat to your heart's content in a way that is somewhat unique in the genre.

Building a better park IMO - and that is EXACTLY what I want out of my MMORPG.

Great character building, great graphics, cross platform play, excellent story, lots of group content both small and large scale, a full housing system, and the promise of a subscription fee with NO item mall or cash shop or freemium premium F2P B2P P2W or RMT.

As for the quote above and the underlined specifically, thats not what FFXIV is at all. Let me preface before the hate and say I love the game. Im having fun in the betas, and if it werent for the subscription, my guild and I would be playing the game. It feels very much like FF, but as much as thats a positive, it is also a negative. It plays very much like a console game on rails. 

 

While other games look to drive the industry forward, and try new things, this game is a step backward for the industry. This is very much your old school MMO, multiple hotbars, one button macroing, forced grouping, stand still to cast, and no dodge or action combat, etc. all bundled up with a sub fee.

 

"allowing you the player to choose which to ride and which to skip" this part right here is especially false. The game very much forces you in one direction, with required grouping and dungeons, and quest hubs all run on rails. Want a mount? You have to join a faction, which means getting to a certain point in your story missions. Want to use the airships, again only after doing your story missions. Want to run dungeons, oh yea, you need access which is given by doing your story missions. Dont want to do dungeons? Too bad, they are forced within your story missions, and you cant progress in the game without them. Oh and the repeatable content, theres FATES (see Dynamic Events), most of which are death if you try to do them solo. But youll have plenty of time to do them, if you want to level other classes, its all grind, since the quests are not repeatable. 

 

FFXIV:ARR is definitely a themepark, as you said, unapologetically so. This is the best way to describe the game. Its as themepark as themeparks come, right out of 2004. No game has done more handholding or guided rails in the last 5 years, even GW2 allowed you to choose if you wanted to do the story missions or not. Im not saying any of this is a bad thing. Many players want the old school MMO feel. Its whats been missing in their gaming, and why they hate on new MMOs so much. I hope the game is a huge success, and keeps all those gamers satisfied, so they wont need to hate on new games like ESO, or EQN, or ArcheAge, or games that try to do something different for the industry. 

Seriously? ARR is taking things that have been done before and innovating them to make them better, AND will be introducing things not done in MMORPGs before. AND even if it had not done anything innovative, it is still a really well designed MMORPG. To elaborate . . .

Things that have been done before, but innovated in ARR . . .

1. Crafting is actually interesting and more in depth in ARR, and have their own classes as a result.
2. The player housing is very in depth in ARR rather than tacked on like it is in most MMOs.
3. More class freedom with the armoury system. Your equipment determines your class, rather than your class dictating your equipment. This armoury system also allows freedom of class choices and even cross class abilities for unique combinations. This also almost eliminates the annoying inventory clutter issue found in most MMORPGs by giving players separate inventories for equipment and non-equipment and making them larger than most MMORPG's single inventory.
4. Chocobo companions, which can fight with you with their own classes, equipment, and will include raising and breeding. It's the combination of these systems I'm getting at. This is a much better pet/companion system than your typical MMORPG, a little more involved.

Things unique to ARR when compared to other MMORPGs . . .

1. The Gold Saucer type amusement park, which will include numerous side games to keep players busy for those that want more to do outside mobs, quests, and dungeon runs. This has been confirmed by Yoshi.
2. Chocobo races. This is still a rumor and not confirmed yet, but Yoshi has mentioned the desire to add such fan service things to ARR. Considering the amusement park has already been confirmed, and past FF amusement parks all had chocobo racing; there's a good chance chocobo racing will be a side activity for ARR's amusement park. It would be the first FF with an amusement park/casino to not have chocobo racing if they leave it out.

[B]And some things coming that keep the game entertaining regardless of the fact they've been done before (and may have an innovative aspect to them compared to other MMORPGs, but unknown yet so I left these out of the innovated categories above) . . .[/B]

1. PVP
2. a collectable card game
3. free company housing/quests
4. achievements

The game's strong points not mentioned above . . .

1. A questing system loaded with layers of sub-questing systems, whether it be story quests, job quests, side quests, levequests, guildhests, grand company quests, etc
2. A very dedicated developer/producer and team
3. Logs for battle, crafting, and gathering, which is simply another nice layer of content
4. Most of the story quests allow for soloing to max level and other side things, which is what many MMORPG players have complained about being lacking in other MMORPGs. The only downside is the occasional story dungeon/battle requiring a party. The point is the game still has more solo content than your typical MMORPG. Who knows in the future they might make 1 player versions of the story dungeons, though unlikely. I still give them credit for the amount of solo content.
5. A very fluid game, with beautiful unique environments each drawn by hand rather than copy and pasted.
6. Excellent music and atmosphere.
7. Normal, Hard, and Extreme mode for the hardcore individuals
8. Multi-platform
9. FATE events

To say ARR does nothing innovative is just plain blindness. Aside from innovation the game is already packing more layers of systems/content than any other MMORPG has before during a beta. So just think of post beta as the game builds up. I'm sure I missed some stuff. Point is the game does some innovative things/new approaches, but simply disguises it as a familiar formula since the formula is successful and they want some familiarity.

 

@froggiestonemn:

I can tell you didn't even play the game. There's no way you played it to make a comment like that. There's a reason this game is being highly praised. By far one of the best MMOs of the past 10 years. Assuming you did play beta you must not of gotten very many levels in as the game piles on layers every 5-10 levels, and much more depth than your typical MMO. It starts very slow. I'm thinking you're a troll. I'm not saying that because you don't like it. I'm saying that because of exactly what you're saying. I don't even think the very few people that do have issues with the game would believe you've played it because you aren't even pointing out an issue, but rather saying absurdly over exaggerated things. That, or you're new to MMORPGs and FFXIV: ARR was your first. In that case you should avoid MMOs because if you try any of the others out there you'll see just how better ARR is compared to your average MMORPG. Then again, maybe you're getting FFXIV: A Realm Reborn mixed with the original FFXIV. Your words only make sense when referring to the original FFXIV. This is FFXIV: A Realm Reborn. A completely different game rebuilt from the ground up.

 

EDIT: This post was meant to be a quote to the poster above me, but I forgot to click quote instead of reply, lol. >.<

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn definitely needs to go on this list once it's out and they finish the list. The game is a juggernaut in terms of quality and potential and how good it already is in beta with many things locked out of beta.

Nice read!

I am currently experiencing withdrawal after phase 3 ended. ARR is the best MMO I have ever played, and I've played many in the past 10 years including WoW. Sure, ARR is not perfect, but they are improving things quite a bit. I'm not comparing ARR beta to long established MMOs, but rather comparing it to other MMOs when they were in beta phase. If ARR is this good now, just envision farther down the line as they continue rolling out features. They've taken familiar MMO features and innovated them, like what they did with crafting, and the housing plans. Plus post release they'll be adding things not done before in an MMORPG like the amusement park and talk of chocobo racing, etc.

Originally posted by wordiz
Originally posted by h0tNstilettos

To those saying ridiculous things like FFXIV is the same old same old, obviously have no experience with the genre.

 

I have played almost every MMO under the sun, both sandbox, theme park, free to play, pay to play, etc, including major ones like WoW, and for a beta that has many features unavailable, FFXIV: ARR is already one the best MMOs I have ever played.

 

I'm going to go through these ridiculous complaints people are making. Before I do, I should make it clear I am not speaking as a fangirl. I am speaking as someone that has a ton of experience in MMORPGs, and yes I made my account the other day just to post for this game. I have been using this site for years, but just never became a member. This is the first MMO that sparked me to do so. People also forget that in this beta many things are made easier for testing purposes so it is easier for players to progress for testing. On top of that, it is suppose to be easier for the first 15 levels or so. The game is designed to cater to both casual gamers and hardcore. On top of that people need to look at the game as a whole. It's presentation.

 

Complaint #1: FFXIV has the same questing system that has been done time and time again, kill x, fetch this, etc.

My response: FFXIV takes the MMO basics, plus features that have been done in other MMOs, BUT it does them better. The questing system in this game is very varied. There are multiple questing systems presenting different styles of questing. Aside from basic questing (an MMORPG staple, just like how people FPS games involve shooting others), you have levequests, guildhests, grand company quests, free company quests, and the excellent story quests which are more immersive and well made when compared to other MMO's story quests. Killing mobs and completing quests/objectives IS the MMORPG genre, just like shooting others in FPS/TPS games is why they are shooters. It's how the games do it that makes things a little refreshing, but the core mechanics are the same for the genre. Sure, you can argue WoW or other MMOs do it better because they make it easier to track/find quest markers and where you have to go. Some people don't like their hands to be held, while others do. I can't say one is better than the other. It's a minor problem.

 

Complaint #2: Combat is too easy

My response: It's beta, and most making that claim are not even beyond level 20 yet, and those that are are forgetting the beta is purposely made easier with no end game content available yet as of time of writing this. Questing doesn't even go beyond 30 yet. Yoshida already said there will be very hardcore content in the game. People are jumping to conclusions about stuff they have never tried yet, and easier beta difficulty in general compared to release.

 

Complaint #3: Game should be free to play.

My response: If you're old enough to have a job and not disabled, you have bigger things to worry about than playing this. If you're disabled, you can get government assistance to pay for your bills, plus a little extra each month to spend on leisure/entertainment. I can't speak for other countries as I'm unsure of how many countries have such an option.

 

Complaint #4: FFXIV does nothing revolutionary

My response: This is where you are wrong. FFXIV: ARR takes familiar MMO features and does them better, plus adding features post-release that are new to the MMORPG genre, like the Gold Saucer like mini-game attraction park, which is just one more thing to keep you entertained if you're tired of questing, fighting mobs, and crafting. There will be in-depth player housing. There's so many aspects to the housing they are implementing that there's too much to list as this post isn't about that. Let's just say it's your typical tacked on housing of other MMOs. It will have more purpose in ARR with ability bonuses, plus neighborhoods, building house from ground up, chocobo stall for raising and breeding your chocobos, and being able to buy or sale houses. They are revolutionizing player housing in this game. Let's look at crafting, another MMO feature that has been done time and time again. FFXIV's crafting system actually makes me want to craft as compared to other MMOs. They even have their own classes. They have revolutionized crafting with this game.

 

Complaint #5: The graphics are horrible for PS3.

My response: If you are judging a game based on graphics rather than gameplay, you really shouldn't be playing games. The graphics aren't going to affect my gameplay, and they aren't terrible graphics anyways.

 

There are more complaints, but I am covering the main ones. Now I am going to point out some key things that make this MMORPG a very high quality MMO. Many things have been done in past MMOs, but not as well or fun, while some is new. Take CoD Modern Warfare 3 for example, it had the same stuff that has been done in other FPS game, and that's because that is what makes it a FPS, BUT it did them better, or with new ideas or approach to similar concepts. It's the same with ARR. The minion system is the only thing that is not done better or different than past MMOs.

 

#1 The armory class-switching system

#2 Companions and barding.

#3 Chocobo breeding and raising

#4 Duty finder

#5 The mini-game attraction park type area similar to the Gold Saucer from FFVII

#6 Superior crafting, housing, and breeding/raising (if what I read about housing and breeding/raising is true).

#7 Limit breaks

#8 Plenty of quest system variations (I'm not saying no other MMO had various quest systems, but fewer do than those those that don't. The norm does not include a plethora of quest systems.)

#9 The way they ease you into the game is done at a perfect pace, without being too confusing, and without piling on too much text or info at once.

and more . . .

 

Ultimately, ARR is easily one of the best MMOs out there even before the other features are made available, AND still in beta with limits. That's saying a lot. Fast forward this game years forward so it has had as much time to grow as games like WoW, and it's easy to realize this is going to be an MMO juggernaut. If I had to bet on any MMO being the next big MMO on the success level of WoW, this is one I would bet on. Sadly, I believe the original release of FFXIV will prevent this from happening due to people refusing to try this as a result, but going by quality it is superb. Plus the developers are very active in their relationship with the players and making this game as good as they can based on the feedback. Sure, they can't do everything requested, but they have listened and done a lot compared to most developers. This is a good sign for the future.

You addressed none of the issues I had with the game. And things being said like the highlighted example above is why it's going to be funny watching the train derail, not because I want the game to fail. I came into beta with high hopes. I grew up with FF and  other Square classics. Things just seem to not be the same with that Enix tacked on at the end. Just look at FFXVI. I died a little inside.

Look, you obviously misread my text. That, or you are essentially saying that WoW is a higher quality game, which is ludicrous. You also failed to read the fast forward part so the game can then be on equal ground with WoW for 'amount' of content. I also never saw what your issues were as my post was not even replying to you solely. I was speaking to complainers in general that say ARR is the same and nothing new. The only thing that could keep ARR back is FFXIV's original disastrous release, and people that want to go in hating it as a result and immediately judge it as a clone of a past MMO. So no I am not claiming it will be a WoW killer, even though tons of WoW players playing the beta have already decided to convert to ARR upon release. It would still take a miracle due to the FFXIV stigma, but the quality is what I'm speaking on.

To those saying ridiculous things like FFXIV is the same old same old, obviously have no experience with the genre.

 

I have played almost every MMO under the sun, both sandbox, theme park, free to play, pay to play, etc, including major ones like WoW, and for a beta that has many features unavailable, FFXIV: ARR is already one the best MMOs I have ever played.

 

I'm going to go through these ridiculous complaints people are making. Before I do, I should make it clear I am not speaking as a fangirl. I am speaking as someone that has a ton of experience in MMORPGs, and yes I made my account the other day just to post for this game. I have been using this site for years, but just never became a member. This is the first MMO that sparked me to do so. People also forget that in this beta many things are made easier for testing purposes so it is easier for players to progress for testing. On top of that, it is suppose to be easier for the first 15 levels or so. The game is designed to cater to both casual gamers and hardcore. On top of that people need to look at the game as a whole. It's presentation.

 

Complaint #1: FFXIV has the same questing system that has been done time and time again, kill x, fetch this, etc.

My response: FFXIV takes the MMO basics, plus features that have been done in other MMOs, BUT it does them better. The questing system in this game is very varied. There are multiple questing systems presenting different styles of questing. Aside from basic questing (an MMORPG staple, just like how people FPS games involve shooting others), you have levequests, guildhests, grand company quests, free company quests, and the excellent story quests which are more immersive and well made when compared to other MMO's story quests. Killing mobs and completing quests/objectives IS the MMORPG genre, just like shooting others in FPS/TPS games is why they are shooters. It's how the games do it that makes things a little refreshing, but the core mechanics are the same for the genre. Sure, you can argue WoW or other MMOs do it better because they make it easier to track/find quest markers and where you have to go. Some people don't like their hands to be held, while others do. I can't say one is better than the other. It's a minor problem.

 

Complaint #2: Combat is too easy

My response: It's beta, and most making that claim are not even beyond level 20 yet, and those that are are forgetting the beta is purposely made easier with no end game content available yet as of time of writing this. Questing doesn't even go beyond 30 yet. Yoshida already said there will be very hardcore content in the game. People are jumping to conclusions about stuff they have never tried yet, and easier beta difficulty in general compared to release.

 

Complaint #3: Game should be free to play.

My response: If you're old enough to have a job and not disabled, you have bigger things to worry about than playing this. If you're disabled, you can get government assistance to pay for your bills, plus a little extra each month to spend on leisure/entertainment. I can't speak for other countries as I'm unsure of how many countries have such an option.

 

Complaint #4: FFXIV does nothing revolutionary

My response: This is where you are wrong. FFXIV: ARR takes familiar MMO features and does them better, plus adding features post-release that are new to the MMORPG genre, like the Gold Saucer like mini-game attraction park, which is just one more thing to keep you entertained if you're tired of questing, fighting mobs, and crafting. There will be in-depth player housing. There's so many aspects to the housing they are implementing that there's too much to list as this post isn't about that. Let's just say it's your typical tacked on housing of other MMOs. It will have more purpose in ARR with ability bonuses, plus neighborhoods, building house from ground up, chocobo stall for raising and breeding your chocobos, and being able to buy or sale houses. They are revolutionizing player housing in this game. Let's look at crafting, another MMO feature that has been done time and time again. FFXIV's crafting system actually makes me want to craft as compared to other MMOs. They even have their own classes. They have revolutionized crafting with this game.

 

Complaint #5: The graphics are horrible for PS3.

My response: If you are judging a game based on graphics rather than gameplay, you really shouldn't be playing games. The graphics aren't going to affect my gameplay, and they aren't terrible graphics anyways.

 

There are more complaints, but I am covering the main ones. Now I am going to point out some key things that make this MMORPG a very high quality MMO. Many things have been done in past MMOs, but not as well or fun, while some is new. Take CoD Modern Warfare 3 for example, it had the same stuff that has been done in other FPS game, and that's because that is what makes it a FPS, BUT it did them better, or with new ideas or approach to similar concepts. It's the same with ARR. The minion system is the only thing that is not done better or different than past MMOs.

 

#1 The armory class-switching system

#2 Companions and barding.

#3 Chocobo breeding and raising

#4 Duty finder

#5 The mini-game attraction park type area similar to the Gold Saucer from FFVII

#6 Superior crafting, housing, and breeding/raising (if what I read about housing and breeding/raising is true).

#7 Limit breaks

#8 Plenty of quest system variations (I'm not saying no other MMO had various quest systems, but fewer do than those those that don't. The norm does not include a plethora of quest systems.)

#9 The way they ease you into the game is done at a perfect pace, without being too confusing, and without piling on too much text or info at once.

and more . . .

 

Ultimately, ARR is easily one of the best MMOs out there even before the other features are made available, AND still in beta with limits. That's saying a lot. Fast forward this game years forward so it has had as much time to grow as games like WoW, and it's easy to realize this is going to be an MMO juggernaut. If I had to bet on any MMO being the next big MMO on the success level of WoW, this is one I would bet on. Sadly, I believe the original release of FFXIV will prevent this from happening due to people refusing to try this as a result, but going by quality it is superb. Plus the developers are very active in their relationship with the players and making this game as good as they can based on the feedback. Sure, they can't do everything requested, but they have listened and done a lot compared to most developers. This is a good sign for the future.

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