Originally posted by Wickersham

I think it has a lot to do with the design of these new MMORPGs.

An MMORPG is a social game but the way the new games are designed forces players to behave in a self serving way.  There is no common ownership and there are a few limited common goals and once those goals have been reached there is no reason to return except boredom or to help friends.  They have created a "going my way" mentality that encourages players to exploit each other for personal gain.  If you're not "going my way" I have no reason to deal with you.  There is very little to encourage players to group up except the difficulty level of quests, and again, once the quest is complete there is no reason to repeat it with others.

The newer games ignore the things that encourage any sort of RPing.  Healthy RPers create a toon and make a life for that toon within the game world.  The toon is not an extension of them by any means of the imagination and what happens to that toon has no reflection on them - it is treated more like a person treats a pet.

Lastly. the quests are spoon fed to us with no thought or exploration involved.  Go to X kill Y return to Z and all of it is mapped out for us.  The UI and gameplay is so intuitive no one needs to ask about it and if you do ask something players will push you towards the internet rather than help you.

You walk away from playing these games with a feeling that you are nothing more than just another NPC to other players.

I think this post covered it.

Its true, from UO in 2000, to Aoc and WAR in 2008, ive seen a pretty dramatic decline in conversation and text based chat...and not everybody uses vent/teamspeak...if your not in a guild, or nothing is happening with the guild at that time, why would you use it? The rise of  Vent and Teamspeak dont explain away the downturn in conversation.

1) MMO's are now 90% solo based questing games. 10% grouping for boss mobs, raids and rvr.

2) The push to reach end-game content as quickly and efficiently as possible. Less typing, means more killing.

Those are the two main reasons.

You could be right., still though WAR's is extremely limited.

Gotta agree, the graphics in general are sub par, but understandable given RvR nature of the game, Im fine with them now, but the customization is definately lacking, and im not aware of any real reasons for it.

Personally I wish they allowed D2D to Australian customers. I dont need the gimmicks, the shiny xp ring, or the cardboard and paper waste were apparently trying to cut down on. The few days headstart is immaterial for the long haul, unless you count the possibility of exploiting new game bugs, which are hopefully already eliminated.

Give me a net connection, a link, and somewhere to bung my c/c details in and im done.

I bagged it initially, but I enjoyed the beta, so I plan to play it casual for a couple hours a day.  I also found PvE a bit on the easy side, with little challenge other than some PQ boss mobs, but thats ok. I got my DE Sorc to 10 and Marauder to 13.  I enjoyed my DE Sorc more than Marauder because the combat seemed more varied, more options at your disposal, and you had to think faster. Then I picked up the black orc i created originally, and that was fun too, the idea of  "builders" is very much like combo's in AoC, and I enjoy those mechanics, plus the damn Black Orc is tough as nails.

So i think ive given away my 3 classes for Destruction havent I? :p

When it comes to order, im not sure what to roll with, the class choices are a bit uninspired for me.

Ill probably pick up a Bright Wizard, cause i love magic classes, High Elf, will likely be White Lion or Shadow Warrior, Dorf will be engineer.

3 and 3. 3 on 1 server, 3 on the other. Talking the two Oceania servers.

Sounds like a plan to me.

See u in game

Originally posted by mrroboto40

Don't play a class unless you enjoy their mechanics, because theres always a chance that any class could be nerfed.

Don't pick a class because they are powerful, pick a class because you enjoy it.

100% win.

Funcom wont exist in 12 months. I really think things have gone so far downhill in terms of their reputation, gaining a fraction of that back is going to be a tough, tough ask. Maybe they can get the game up to par and try to sell it too Sony....Sony can claim "Under New Management"....mind you Sony doesnt have the best rep either, but they do have money.

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

Originally posted by mscouts77

Yes its WarHammer....   but look at what you guys are missing....  please keep an open mind... I hate seeing good people waste time on a game that is going nowhere

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pHAGtyNMz8

 

got like 11000 XP shooting that vid....  yes...PvP XP...

 

Im still trying out warhammer, maybe i'll post the video where there is no line of sight, minimal C.D. and fire balls that travel through solid 50ft of rock and other terrain?

PvP XP in 5 days for AoC, no auto targetting, cone shaped spells and heals, better AoE effects, positional attacks, every class can stealth, mounted combat anywhere, smooth animations, siege weapons that can be moved and made by the player, Siege cities all player crafted, no population imbalance concerns, can PvP against people of any race or class, PvP teams that you can create and not created by the computer, better spell effects, fatalities, no 3 second delay in melee weapon swings, every class stamina controlled sprinting, snares and many other regular pvp additions.

War offers tried and tested PvP in a different skin with minimal note worthy additions in my opinion. Its good, but old.

I like war's pvp overall, and both games have their merits in this area. As a player my preferance is with the style presented in AoC. If what comes next week enhances that, then thats even better.

Thanks for posting the war vid makes for clearer perspectives in the bigger picture.

The keep battles in WAR are a lot of fun, its a ffa skirmish in a very small area. But its surprisingly fun. 

lol tbh I think there on a par with each other, ie crap, but fortunately both games will have some solid gameplay going for them. Have to say in terms of combat, which is my other gripe with Warhammer, it actually looks better than Darkfall, at least if the video was any indication.  Thats leaving aside the ship battles in Darkfall.

I just wish Mythic owned AoC, and then I wouldnt have to bother with either, as it stands RvR and public quests is keepign me occupied with WAR right now.

They dont really have an option if they wanna stick around as a company, at least as a company that makes MMO's. The only way they can save themselves at this point is too keep working on AoC and making it better, hoping that the hardcore will be vocal enough to point out any progress that is made into the future. They should shelve the secret world for the time being, I wouldnt be surprised to hear that is the case in reality. Who would honestly buy another FC game at this point?

If they work hard on bugs and content, fix existing systems and revamp, like they plan with crafting, put out DX10, all of sudden the attention will sway back there way and they might recover some credibility, maybe even some subs.

Its definately not all about graphics and combat, I thoroughly agree, its really about game mechanics, and whether they are :

a) relatively bug free

b) interesting

c) useful and valued within the game, ie is crafting worth it...etc

Certain parts of WAR I enjoy, i like the RvR idea, i like the public quests, the careers and masteries seem interesting even though im not at that point,  they will probably end up working out better than the feat system in AoC.

At the same time, i cant suspend my disbelief at the graphics, and the combat in particular, its just old and tired when you come from a game like AoC, the particle effects and animations for casters....is very ordinary, and the melee combat is just slow....imo, at least at this stage. I also find the races/classes pretty boring as well (except chaos) but they are straight up tradtional warhammer fantasy, and so it should be, so I wont bag the game for that.

There is a lot to like about WAR, its already polished, and im sure Mythic will treat their customer base a lot better, damn it wouldnt be hard, but in terms of combat and graphics, its about 4 years behind.

Originally posted by ackmhed

 6 month's from now, when FailCom is bankrupt and WAR is giving WoW a run for it's money, threads like this will really matter! LOL

War giving Wow a run for its money LOL , man this thread really does deliver

Why?

Combat and graphics.

As far as in corcerned, when people talk about next generation, or steps beyond the norm

WAR is past and present, AoC is the future.

When i compare AoC melee combat, ranged combat, animations, character movement, atmosphere, graphics....all of it is better than WAR.

Makes me think....Funcom you released to early, you had nothing to fear.

My thoughts so far?

A big one is why did Funcom have to feck up so much, seriously if they  just put out a more polished product it would wipe Warhammer.

What I like about War.

1) The interface is fast and very easy to understand, good interface

2) Public quests are nice

3) So far it has very few bugs.

What I dont like.

1) Combat...AoC has spoiled me, the melee and ranged combat is very average indeed, compared to AoC its substandard.

2) The graphics are dated. Dont care what anyone says, they simple are.

3) The animations for spells etc, and some aspects of melee, are pretty poor.

4) Character customization is ok, but nothing briliant, again AoC is better, not by much mind.

They put out WoW with a Warhammer skin, im sure it will do ok, but i just wonder, in 6  months when Funcom have dx10 compatibility out, some new content, and hopefully most of the bugs fixed....what then? I will be interesting to see if people give it another whirl when they pump the videos.

I used fileplanet, used the download manager, so far im at 10%. Its going incredibly slow, but *touch wood* no errors yet.

Im downloading at 16kb a sec LOL...but at least its moving

Isnt it 7.45 EDT? doesnt that mean 6.45 EST? I dunno, im in Australia, but that would mean 15 minutes to go.

I feel sorry for the designers, musicians and artists, and the wage slaves. I dont feel a great deal for those in charge because they KNEW what they were doing. Its not like Funcom are a new kid on the block, and they even stated themselves that AO was a disaster in terms of launch...they wanted to improve on it, well they sold more units, but 3 months in....I see things heading the same way as AO.

Its a real pity, because in terms of combat, it is probably the best game on the market. Ive yet to see anything thats current or in development that looks as promising as AoC's melee, and combat is a central part of most MMO's.  In terms of atmosphere and graphics, well its pretty damn nice as well and the dx10 version looks incredible. They should heavily promote the DX10 version.

I hope it makes a resurgence when the shininess of  WAR has worn of. Tbh i dont really think the WoW expansion will matter much, your either gonna play WoW or not, a lot leave it because of its heavy, heavy time requirements. That only gets worse with the expansion

I hope it makes a comeback.  If they worked hard on fixing bugs, reworkign some systems, ie crafting, and added content reasonably efficiently, I see no reason why it shouldnt be in the top 3 mmos for n.a/euro/oceania.

I take it the patcher isnt up atm? I try to run the patcher and i just get booted back to login, gotta wait for the big day i guess.

Ya i agree, im after a little cooperation, what happened to the idea of community build structures, like Horizons had, how many years ago now? That was such a cool feature. I remember building a bridge to get to a new playing area, among other things.