I think its more of a issue with players then with the game design because you hear the same problem it nearly every game theses days.

I ask why did you wait until you need a group to get one started?

Me when I play a mmorpg one of the first things I do is make friend ask people for help, see if the need help. Just chatting away with people early on. Its Networking. you never wait until you need a job to start networking. You do it when you already have one. You do it when you are still in training and don't require one.

That way when you need a group you already have a list of people to call on. A lot of the time they will call you first.

Sure a low pop can make it hard but there is no reason not to try and set up connections with anyone you see even if its just one person.

More often then not people have this"I can do it all myself I don't need you" attitude when soloing because everything is within their grasp. As soon as they come along a challenge that is more then they can handle alone they want a group but can't find one so they get upset.

Which to a point they have a right to be. How ever if you wait until the last minute to start looking you can't really get upset if you can't find one. Even if you are new to the game you know at some point your going to need a group sooner or later so why wait until later to get one?

Originally posted by Copeland

 

---

Originally posted by Vinterkrig
yall are way over hyping up this game lol

---

 

I don't see any overhyping. It's a quality title that a few people will really enjoy. I haven't heard anyone saying it's a WoW killer or even close.

An that is what makes it so much of a threat to other mmorgs. No one is saying its the new king. So people are not going to walk into the game comparing it to WoW that has been out for years at least not to the extreme. An since it has release far better then recent titles with a no commitment option  to try it out. It does not have that stigma that comes from trying a new mmorpg.

Add the the features that no mmorpg has like the combat system for example. An you got a even better exprience. Plus the game released not to long ago and they already have a content patch coming.

If you can speak German you will find out on there forums that additions like mounts, expansions on pvp..etc are also in the works who knows some of it may be in this first patch since it is a content patch after all.

The way I see it Spellborn is starting out on a steady but good pace that will grow into a powerful beast. Does this mean it will be the WoW killer? I say no. ( WoW is to big right now) I will say this. If Spellborn release features that rival or surpass what WoW currently has then I think there is some reason for concern.

Originally posted by vajuras

The pve'ers are their primary concern. I suppose they want to flesh out their world with lore. I admire they are focusing on a strength. I will check this title out

I hope they add the shard conquests. However, here in spellborn PVPers we might be on a backseat. I've seen this before, sadly.

It really does suck it looks like it would be so perfect for PVP with no armor/weapon restrictions, loose Classes (everyone a hybrid), etc

I'm going to play this that is my plan. I'll just have to be a PVE'er and blend in

I hope the FFA PVP zones is decent but I realize their priority is PVE.

I wouldn't worry. The first step to making a good pvp system is a good combat system. If you look at it that way pvp is getting its far share of attention. Since we all want balance classes. Also since things like the arena will be there at release. A feature that seems to always make it into a pvp game sooner or later in some shape or form. Since we get our so soon the devs have no choice but to put in shard conquest. Also considering that shard conquest is apart of  shard exploration which in itself is a large part of the lore. I don't think it will be very long before we get it.

Originally posted by CapnSwallows

Originally posted by alkennjoi

i should hope people realize that PVP formats in MMOs develop over time and you wont get a super duper developed in depth pvp system at a games initial release.  Since lots of folks play WOW, i'll use that as an example.  You can track the pvp developments in a long line of WoW patches over the life of the game.  World pvp events and tower capturing came after the standard 3 zones(WSG,AB and AV).  Then the arena matches and more outdoor pvp towers came with the expansion.  Siege weapons will be coming etc.

The Spellborn team has revelaed so much in their dev journals about so many aspects of the game, and much of their plaing for release will be ready.  Also, they allude to what sorts of content they are reserving for post release patches.  I am sure they have many things on their tables for future content and only give us the tip of the iceburg.

and i agree with the previous posts - and would much rather have a stable system than big hype and empty promises full of technical problems and limitations.  

But hasn't WoW been out for 4 years? (correct me if I am wrong.) I really don't think that is a reasonable time,then again that is why I am not playing WoW. I sure do hope it wouldn't take them that long to implement good pvp.

 

 

Alot of that is because blizzard lost alot of good developers. The ones who made Warcraft what it was went and made Guild Wars. Alot of balancing issues related to the classes among other things made it hard to create new content for pvp. Can't make a good pvp system if your still trying to fix classes. I know improvements happen all the time but theres a big difference between that and trying to figure out what a class is suppose to do. Remember what druids where like at release? Look at what they are now. Took blizz four years to get them there. >.<

Originally posted by ghoul31

 

Originally posted by L0k1-

 

 

. if you see an enemy wearing a cool looking helmet and you kill him, you'll get his damaged helmet and you can get the materials for it to repair it.  

 

Thats not crafting. Thats repairing

 

I Spellborn its alot different. Everyone is right you find a broken item taking it to a npc who will tell you what you need to fix it. But everyone forgot the most important part. The "Sigils" Theses are items you can forge into your weapons and jewelry to enhance yourself. An all of it is based on what you want to build upon not the devs.

Here is a link that will tell you everything you need to know. About Sigils and crafting and how both creates a system that currently can't be beat.

http://www.tcos.com/sbforum/viewtopic.php?t=11949

Originally posted by daarco

How is it possible that we get so many amazing gameplay videos in TCoS? This game must truly be a winner.

That's because the Devs of Spellborn spend more time developing there game instead of just hyping it. An because of that they are not scared of showing raw in game footage. Without all the flash.

Originally posted by Size-Twelve

To make it easy on you man, I'm just going to tell it like it is. It's not going to be like AoC.

It's more similar to WoW in that regard, except there will be no strict PvP server, and the PvP zones they do have are FFA PvP zones. There is also an Arena where ladder tournaments will take place, and this is how the game stands right now.

Allow me to say though, I've been around MMO's a long while - both games are going to release with problems. AoC might have alot of features, but I think their netcode is a little shaky, and I'm not sure their combat is all it's cracked up to be because of it. I've seen lots of games promise lots of cool features and have, in the end, hurt themselves by releasing a buggy product trying to fit them all in.

On the other hand, Spellborn appears to be running like a top performance wise based on some beta leaks, and some in-game videos. Their publisher has been very patient, and allowed them plenty of time to make sure the bugs are ironed out. This game is going to be a runner.

The flip-side though, is that content wise they seem not to be as concerned with PvP features. They seem happy with the somewhat limited PvP they have right now, and instead want to implement further features after release.

So, what it comes down to is this:

Do you want to play a game with plenty of features on release, but that may not all be working properly?

-or-

Do you want to play a game that is built solidly, but may not have all of it's features in on release?

I place my money on the latter. and TCOS, simply because it seems easier attaching complex features to a solid functioning backbone, rather than add a backbone to a fully operational game with complex end features.

So make no mistake, both developers have made statements that they put PvP as a priority in the development of their respective games. It's just how they are going about it's that's different. I simply think TCoS has the better plan.

Every mmorpg expands on its features be it pve or pvp. So what you see at release is not all that  players will get. The big different is since combat works great. Made good for one vs one, group vs group to guild vs guild. Spellborn has alot more options for new features for pvp then other mmorpgs.  Take Shard Conquest it is spellborn's verison of border kingdoms, or War's RvR system. There where alot of reasons to hold back on that feature to post release. From coding to replay value to adding new features too it. The devs will tell you themselves why it was held off. The Great thing about it is we will get so much more when its release and since its not a feature people will be using from the start why rush to push it out if its not ready.

Originally posted by DT-Dyne

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by DT-Dyne

I've never heard of this game and I wasn't expecting much of the combat system. I'm a heavy PvPer and that combat was actually somewhat appealing but I quickly saw a few serious drawback that turned me off. The combat system has no way to prevent two opponents from trading hits when both players coming are coming into melee range.

What does that mean? When two players get into striking range than they will both mindlessly begin slamming the keyboard in hopes to land a hit so chances are you'll only effectively trade hits more often than not - kind of like if it were just autoattacking anyway... which defeats the purpose of having the combat twitch based.

They could fix this, if the player struck first was momentairly stunned or was knocked back to somehow prevent trading hits than I think the game would be more very appealing otherwise it would just seem mindlessly swinging when the opponent is in range. That couldn't just be picked at random either, you'd have to test both to see how it works with the mechanics It would be hard to judge though without playing the game though. All I can really do is make assumptions because the arc of the weapons might all be different and the length of the weapons as well.

Overall, I'm impressed with what they've shown.  I really didn't expect it to be as good as it was so I might take a closer look.

There is not only "manuall target attacks" there is also manuall (keybound) dodging.  Keep in mind that there is no auto attck, and that every hit they do they have to choose between 5 options. (So no spamming the mouse button like in a fps game.

I could tell you manually dodge as well but I've played a lot of games with similar mechanics and manually doding won't mean much without some additional modifications. After watching the video again though, I could tell they have a long delay after a swing of their weapon, so you can't just slam the keyboard without some cordination or you'll be vulnerable. This is also what I think they are counting on to prevent players from swapping hits. If the enemy misses than he has some downtime in which you can land a blow without having a chance to recieve one. That's all very interesting but effective?

 

Your right there is down time between attacks. Believe me its shorter then they think. There are ways to decrease that time. On top of that there are a wide range of skils. That can be use as defense outside of just manually moving out of the way of a incoming attack. For example wars arch types will gain skills to greatly reduce the damage they take allowing them to just say screw and take that hit head on to allow for a direct hit from them. There are other classes that can attack a target and heal themself others at the same time. You can check out most of the abilities each class has at Spellborn's main site. So I wouldn't worry the devs already saw this. An it works great.

Originally posted by Dis_Ordur

1) Has no US release plans.

2)  Has delayed beta longer than most game development cycles

3) Has absolutely no developer communication.

This forum reminds me a lot of DnL before it came out.  Don't get me wrong, I think the ideas in this game look fantastic, but like AoC, TCoS will fail due to it's real time combat, I cannot even begin to imagine the amount of lag that will be produced with hit boxes and aiming in an MMORPG, with today's technology, it simply cannot be done, look at EVE online for example.

Someone prove me wrong, but this forum reeks of naive gamers getting strung along by a not-so transparent development team that is working on a game that has ZERO release plans for the USA.

1) Your right they don't have a publisher and for good reason. US publishers have bad habit of trying to force a game out before it is ready just to make a quick buck or to gain an advantage over another mmorpg before it releases. The Devs of Spellborn are avoiding that by not setting any deals yet. Doesn't mean they don't have any US publishers they are just not going to let them get in the way of development. Also this is not a american made mmorpg so it may come as shock but americans may have to wait a few more weeks before they get there hads on the game. Thats not set in stone but its something that people should keep in mind. Just for the record check out theses links that shows the deals they do have.

http://www.tcos.com/news/?id=832

http://www.frogster-ip.de/read_pdf.php?file=fip/2007_10_08_pm_en_zeitplan.pdf

http://www.frogster-ip.de/read_pdf.php?file=fip/2007_10_10_pm_en_tcos_japan.pdf

This game is not even out yet and there are already deals to sell this game in more than half of the online world. Can you show proof like this of what ever mmorpg your backing or any other mmorpg in development? Not even World of Warcraft had it this good before release.

2) If you where keeping up with this game or saw the GC 2007 video that was showed here. The game has been in development for little over four years. Four years is the bare mininum for a mmorpg's development. Your not going to see a high quailty mmorpg come out in less then that time. Theses days its taking longer and longer to make a good mmorpg that can hold its own today. Besides theses devs are smart enough to know that you have to set aside time just on polishing a game so that it doesn't fail on release. Don't you dare hold Spellborn in the same like as Dark and Light. Just a quick question. How long has AoC and Warhammer among other mmorpgs have been in development? Rigth now the Devs of Spellborn have annouce that they are going for a 1Q release.  So they have actually made great time when it comes to mmorpg development. Considering that they are thinking outside the box with new features that actually work they are doing a great job.

3) I don't know where you got this from. If you using mmorpg.com as your main source of info on Spellborn. Judging by your comments you are. Then you know about 10% of the information even the newest member of spellborn does. Unlike other mmorpgs with crap main sites that give little or no infomation on there game. An forces fans to go to fansites or other third party sites like this one. Spellborn keeps all the sweetest info for those who are really interested. Its there for anyone to see. You just have to go to the main site to get it. No dev team has ever been as open with there fan base as the Spellborn team. When was the last time you ask a question about your game and a dev personaly come to answer it in less then a day. Or at the very least a CM will come and answer it for you. An by the silm chance the CM doesn't know. They will pass it on to the devs themself.

An for the record if you really want to know about dev communication. Have you even seen the Dev's corner section at Spellborn? Every thing from Dev videos, Q&A sessions, behind the scene looks, improvements on existing and new features. Go to the main site of Spellborn and look to the right. You will see stuff that we got just in October and September. Go to the dev's corner and you can see the rest of it. The really great thing is we get this stuff weekly. Alot of the time we get two or three of theses a week.

Heres the link to the dev's corner you should check it out. This isn't even counting what we get in the other forums

http://www.tcos.com/sbforum/viewforum.php?f=105&sid=82ae77e7126457a3a50c99a82c3b398a

As for your last comments. You really don't know much of anything of spellborn outside of the basics. Have you read the latest Interview at TenTon Hammer? They talk about newest achivement as far as lag goes. They can have more then 500 players doing everything from running around to fighting mobs or each other without any downtime crashs or lag. If you at the history of there combat system. They found the perfect balance of real-time combat combine with the normal issues that happens with any mmorpg that includes polygon count. The end results. You have a  game that will not push the average player's pc beyong there limits. If you PC can handle world of warcraft with no problem then your pc is more then enough to handle Spellborn.

I have proven wrong on every count Dis_Ordur. You should take the time to do your homework on Spellborn before you make statements like this. In the end I must thank you. I don't know what your agend really is. Or who you are backing. But this little stunt has work in Spellborn's favor. Now there is infomation out that normally people would not know because you would have to go to the main site to see it.

Originally posted by Thatim

 

Originally posted by mkuczara

My jaw dropped on the floor!!. I was intersted in this game, but seeing so many failures around i got a bit skeptical but after this video..... no, it cannot be real guys. :)!!

Welcome the the TCoS feeling. From now on you can't play a MMO without thinking of what you just saw. You might be sceptical, but it's the thruth...

 

 

 

It's a blessing and a curse to have came in contact with TCoS, when it isn't released yet...

 

 

 

Sorry for  all that nonsense, I just couldnt control myself.

 

 

For all those who missed the intro, this was a footage of a few developers who fought each other with level 1 characters. Furthermore there will be more combat animations, and the walking animations will get fixed. And don't forget to visit www.tcos.com

Your right people who have no interest in this game one bit. Not out of hate or anything. Just not there thing. But had a chance to see this video or the other ones. Can't help but wonder what they have missed out on. Thats one of Spellborns greatest strenght. An to add to what you said about the characters being level one. I can't recall one game with pvp in it. That has such engaging combat. Whats even better is theses characters only have access to four skills at level one. Two of which are the same for everyone.

What I'm getting at is if combat is this good at level one think how good it will be in four levels when they learn there sub job and gain different skills? Think much better it will be after that when those same characters are level 20 or 30...etc. Combat is only going to get better.

Most people only know the basics when it comes to the pvp in spellborn and no little of whats to come. so I will post this here.

For you vajuras. There will be quest in those pvp areas. Take the Green District. This is one of the pvp areas that they talked about. Not only is this a place to gather reources. Its also where a mid level instance is located. With quest inside and out of the area. One thing if you must know about he devs is they are against putting in areas just for the heck of it. There not going to put in pvp areas and not have a really good reason in a lot of cases more then one to go there.

An heres that post from the Offical Spellborn forums.

I just wanted to put this here. Since its a nice piece of info straight from one of our devs Selachii.


FFA PvP servers? Nope, sorry, not at release for sure.

I'll answer every well posed, relevant, question in this thread. I might miss one here and there, but that might be due to the reason Banshee indicated above

What PvP areas?

-The green district, mines and caves. The mines and caves are spread across several shards. These zones are intended for players of +/- level 20 and up.

-Arena district: intended as training ground for some free fights, but that's all up to the players. Accessible to all levels.

-Guild hall: The instanced guild hall will have a small pvp (training) area available for guilds who have unlocked this.

-Arena: Players can fight ranked and unranked battles here. Several different maps and mods will be available on release. Accessible to +/- level 40 and up.

The size of the areas is quite different. Also, we’re not placing the PvP area’s in some corner of a shard so only PvP players will be there. Some areas have gathering related content, some have quest related content.

When entering a PvP enabled area, there will be a system message counting down before it will go in effect.

In PvP zones, there’s no relation between faction/species/guild/high house-members. We can make the distinction, but there’s no zones currently using this. Players in a group, however, can’t attack each other, so they can work together. Basically all PvP zones are currently FFA, with the exception of the Arena. This is because the Arena is currently only 1 v 1, 1 v team or team v team, no FFA mods yet.

There are several concepts for PvP wide shards, based on high houses and guilds, but these won’t be in at release.

On the subject of spectating Arena matches, yes this will be possible. I don’t think it will be in release, but I hope it will, it’s one of those features I really like. Did I mention the spectators’ area of the Arena looks stunning?

The link for this post is here.

http://tcos.com/sbforum/viewtopic.php?t=7446

Originally posted by daarco

I just wonder how many diffrent forms of PvP there is?

From what i understand, this is mainly PvE. But some FFA PvP areas are there and some arenas. Any other "form"? Sieges?

The lore dont make room for much of that, or im a wrong?

Spriggan05 in general is right. PvP can be broken into three parts. Theres first the arena. Which are FPS like in design. Then there are the pvp mines/zones. Which alot of people think are just caves. After seeing the video interview  where the devs talk about the Green District. There will be alot there in  those areas then just rare resources and FFA pvp. Last there are Shard conquest that is sadly being held off into post release. The good thing about it is they are redesigning alot of aspects to it making it more connected to the lore and adding more features. In the past it was only going to be High hous vs High house (aka factions) vs npc seiges. But not the devs are adding content for both High House and Guild pvp Increasing the options the first desgin didn't have.

About the lore. Spellborns Lore offers alot more options for pvp then any mmorpg you can think of. For example the Five High houses are allies but that doesn't mean there isn't fighting between them or between members of the same house. Thats why FFA pvp can make since. An like all policital battles they take place away from the eyes of the general public. Which falls right in line with the pvp areas. Also while there are Five High Houses for players the choose from there where eight in the past. Three of them broke away from the Enclave ( aka the general name for current high houses) An are enemies of them. Plus there are many other factions in the game that are KoS with the Enclave. The Devs could with ease have a City of Villians thing going on with spellborn by allowing players to play those other factions which can bring new options for pvp on top of what is already there. Spellborn's greatest weapon is the ability to adapt there game from every angle. Lore, PvE, PvP everything can be advance without the fear of breaking a old feature.

Originally posted by mlorriman

Excellent, another convert! Welcome aboard!

As for your question, I haven't really heard much about that. There is some indication that you may be able to get a flying dragon mount, but I'm not really sure if it will really let you fly around within the shards. The areas in the game are built to be very easy to get around, so flight wouldn't really be necessary. If they do add any form of flight, it will likely take place in the deadspell storm. But really, right now all we can do is guess, so the answer to your question is a definate maybe.

To add too what molorriman has said. He is right when players are allowed to use mounts of any kind it will not be used as just a means of faster travel. Thats one of the reasons mounts are not on the devs must do before release list. The areas are built to have less empty space there other mmorpgs. Also another reason why mounts will come after release is because the devs want them to have a real purpose not just to gameplay but to lore. Thats where the Deadspell comes in. gameplay and lore wise players will be spending a good bit of time in there. This is where flying mounts and maybe even player owned shardships will come into play. Which could open the door to all kinds of new features both pve and pvp.