a lot of this conversation just took place at mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/133370

I think, if you are going for the 'freedom to create your own story' approach, then you should be able to group with whoever. In the end, who is to say you are not playing an undercover imperial who appears to be working for the rebels? I would also think that cross faction friendships can make for some interesting story lines for the RP community as well. It's pretty much a traditional 'friends caught on opposite sides' story and I like that SWG makes that possible.

I think, introducing something that imposes further limits would just hurt the game. The game started out (at least in my view)  being about freedom to make your own choices. If anything, I would think SWG should be trying to distinguish itself from WoW (and similar systems) since attempts to emulate it haven't really been grandslams.

same problem. I was a master ranger and came back to a game that had no rangers anymore. I had a respec kit that I got when the CU came out and I hadn't used it at all, so I switched around between some professions. Now I am a BH and running quests that are extremely low level just to figure out how to play again.

I used to be proficient at my class and enjoyed finding out how to be a better Ranger. Now, I am a level 80 noob....

Originally posted by Reanim

Just talkked with a TSR rep about activating one of my 2 old accounts for the 14 day trial. Answer was no. New accounts only or pay to have my old account reactivated. I'm not going to pay to see what has been changed and /or if my chars are still there.

I guess it was foolish of me to believe that SOE might want to attract some of its old customers back.

Rean

for what it's worth, I used my vet trial about a month ago. I didn't really ask any CSR's or anything. I just downloaded the trial client and logged in with my old info. It seemed to work fine.

After loading my old character throughout the two weeks, I noticed my house was still labeled abandon so I don't see that as any motivation to deny vet trials.

Additionally, not everyone who uses the vet trial is a waste of bandwidth as some have suggested.. Once my trial was up, I went ahead and resubbed becuase I had enough fun to warrant playing another month or two.

I would suggest just trying it and seeing if it works.

Originally posted by kedoremos

Very good post.

I had to move from Oklahoma to just north of Boston just to be able to find consistent work. The location has a lot to do with it. In Tulsa I could go for 2-3 months without so much as a 2 week contract (the one I got was moving monitors.. ack!).

And yes, if you're in the Boston/Burlington Mass. area we have a Sr. .NET developer job opening right now. Our lead architect (he's an ex-MS employee) just left and we don't want to rehire an architect as we need a good coder better.

Thanks.

  I originally worked in Florida. The whole dotCom thing came along and things were really nice. The dotCom thing went away and all of a sudden things weren't as nice. Now, had I gone into Geriatric Nursing, I'd be fine, but I would rather work on old machines then old people. That's a personal choice though. I ended up working 6 months here, a few months there, etc, etc.  I had to move to the Philadelphia/Tri-state area to find consistent employment again.

  And thanks for the heads up. Honestly, it was enough of a pain moving the wife up here as it was. I couldn't imagine getting her to agree to relocating now that we have a baby. Hell, she already shot down a pretty nice PHP position in Canada :(. Also, I wouldn't consider myself so much a senior programmer right now, mostly because programming only occupies about half my job right now (see that, lowering expectations...who says i'm not a fast learner).

Now to take it back to the original topic; You never know what the future brings. Industries go up and down. They move from one region to another. Things change and it is up to you to put yourself in the best position to adjust. For you (the OP), that might mean going to college and getting a degree to get that foot in the door and start building that body of experience that will keep you in steady employment.

This thread has brought up a number of constructive view points on the topic, but there are some important things to keep in mind.

A lot of what is being presented (my previous post included) is anecdotal evidence and subject to each person's contributing circumstances. We are all telling you our views based on how we did it.

You will have a different story to come once you have established yourself in your chosen field. This story will be subject to any number of things. Take geography for example. If you are in an area that does not have many tech jobs and you don't plan to relocate, that will be a big factor in the success you find (or don't find as it were).

The OP seemed to me to be questioning their interest in programming as much as the validity of college. That said, college isn't an all or none thing. What about the local community college? It is usually far cheaper then a 4+ year college and will allow you to gauge your interest in various topics. If you take some classes and don't like it, you are out a few dollars. If you take classes and like it, those credits will likely transfer to most 4 year institutions you might be interested in.

Ultimately, and this is important to note, everyone learns in a different manner. While I might have a preference for learning on my own and not following a curicullum, others find a structured classroom more beneficial to learning. People have different needs and our experiences may not suit your needs.

No matter what career, you will be presented with a problem. You will need to pick a solution. To succeed, you will need to learn that there are often more answers to a problem then 'yes' or 'no'. Sometimes 'sort of' is the right answer.

Also, as many have pointed out, there is no substitute for passion and hard work. If you approach programming with a blasai attitude, employers may pick up on that. These are general rules for any job. Hopefully that bunch of rambling thoughts helps put some perspective on things and good luck in whatever you end up doing.

now....more importantly, any of you millionaires looking to hire a network guy/programmer ;) j/k

so to the OP and just because I was conflicted about college when I came of age to make that choice:

Is college needed? No, absolutely not.
Is college a good idea? Yes, it absolutely is.

I took a few classes and found that my 'hobbyist' efforts to learn things taught me more then the school did. It wasn't a bad school. It didn't have bad teachers. It just wasn't for me. That said, I have had a fairly successful career in computers (not mmo programming specificly) that has lasted about 10 years now. It is important to note, my 'foot in the door' was because I knew another 'hobbyist' who helped me get my first job.

My brother on the otherhand, did go to college. He worked with college job fairs to get his first programming job. He has been a programmer for about 10 years as well and he makes about double what I do. Is it because of college, or is it because he is better at what he does then I am? Who's to say? I think college played into it but then that's sibling rivalry right?

In the end, it sounds like the OP has no experience currently. I apologize if i read it wrong. With no experience, college can be a very structured environment to learn fundamentals. Will you learn the latest technology and language? Probably not. Will you learn the fundamentals of OOP using an older, more established language? Yes.

If nothing else, college provides you with the tools to go out and learn. It provides you with a very concentrated period of social networking. The people in your class will be your peers going forward. College also gives you a good credential for getting that entry-level position. Yes, it is a lot of money for one credential, but then I have seen many an HR department filter resume's based on a college requirement.

So that's my experience and hopefully it provides something useful for you to make consider.

I came back recently after not playing since the CU came out.

At first, it was definetly a bit of a ghost town on Chalistra. I rolled characters on Bria and Bloodfin and the results were slightly better.

Since the publish it definitely seems to have picked up. Now i am back on on my original server I used to play on (Chalistra) and I see a lot of people lately. The busiest places are Mos Eisley as many people have mentioned, but Theed is looking busier again and there is some semblance of life throughout the game again.

That said, this was all sort of expected. The (re)introduction of a CH type profession was supposed to recapture peoples interest. Reading various posts, it seems many people were curious and I expect there is a healthy share of reactivated accounts for people who want to check it out.

So, with that in mind, I would be curious if the "thousands" referenced were completely new accounts, included returning vets, or if it even included stationpass holders who had not created SWG characters in the past. Better yet, is it thousands of new toons or thousands of new players?

In the end, some of the scenarios don't matter. In a game like this, perception is reality, and if a player perceives it is busier, who is anyone to argue.

in my biased view, Pre-CU was the high-point of SWG.

When I started playing, I was able to try many different skills without rerolling my character.

I became a Master Doctor at one point. I would go to a medical center and there would be plenty of activity there. So far, I haven't seen the same scenario in the current game.

I became Master Dancer, Image Designer, and Musician at various points. I could go to cantina's or the tents near them and find work and socialization. The cantina's still have activity it seems at least.

I became a Master Ranger and trained in Pistols as well. I hear from many that Ranger was a weak class, but I thoroughly enjoyed it.

I left the game within a few days of the CU going live and only recently came back.

Now I am a Bounty Hunter and my only flexability is within the context of being a Bounty Hunter (with the recent Creature Handler stuff as well). It seems quite limiting when compared to what it used to be. Additionally, the recent state of the game seems to encourage, or at least not discourage, solo play. Pre-CU, people were very motivated to learn about the other players who shared their galaxy. As a Ranger, I used to travel with a Master Doctor on any number of fun adventures. The social aspect seemed more important then a level grind or anything like that.

So, that is just my "rose-colored glasses" view of the past. The game today is not horrible if you think of it as unrelated to the game pre-CU. It isn't neccessarily great either though. For me, it really is a different game and as long as I keep the two versions of the game separate in my mind, I can enjoy the current version.

For what it's worth, I am not an NGE-hater or whatever level may seem comfortable. I personally enjoyed pre-CU more then any other MMO I have played since and am trying to point out the differences I see between the two.

regarding open source MMO's

sourceforge.net/search/ has a list of some.

As is the case with Open Source (or proprietary for that matter) software, quality varies widely between the different one's in the list.

Also, WorldForge might be of interest:
sourceforge.net/projects/worldforge/

Originally posted by Ciredric

CCP on the other hand never lied about anything.  They just never mentioned the  T20 incident.

So, just for the sake of argument, isn't that basicly the same as the concept of "lying by omission" ?

Best (for me): Pre-CU SWG. It was the first online game I played where I looked forward to logging on and seeing how my friends were doing. The social aspect was as much a part of the game as the crafting/killing things/PvP/etc Despite having played various games before that, I did not really have an idea of what an online community should be.

WoW is a close second for me. I went to WoW a few games after I left SWG. I went there on the recommendation of a few coworkers and thus started the game with pre-established friendships and a host of new friends through those people. That, and not the game play, is what kept me playing WoW for a decent amount of time. When I would roll an alt on servers where I did not know anyone already, the results were a mixed bag and community really swung from one extreme to the other (as has been pointed out).

Worst (for me): Since playing Pre-CU SWG, everything has pretty much been compared with that (even if not intentionally). That's a tough benchmark to beat so I will take the easy answer and say the free MMO's I've played have offered little to nothing in the form of lasting community.

Name ............... Imm'ortal and Syn'thetic

Faction ............ Neutral

Class ................ Structure Trader (68) and Bounty Hunter (22)

Server .............  Bloodfin

Race ................. Zabrek

Current Guild ... N/A

Pilot Status ...... <will fill in later as I don't recall and the server is offline>

Started ............. Created both characters within the past few weeks. I still have an old character on Chalistra who was a Master Ranger (quit within a few days of the CU going live). All my friends who played on that server are gone though so I figured I would leave him sit as I get used to the current state of the game.

So far, since coming back to the game, I have had some fun, but haven't had much luck on grouping or anything like that. I see plenty of people around in the evenings though (EST at least). So, it is probably as much my fault as anyone else's that I haven't been grouping much yet.

If I were to base my opinion completely on my experience playing SWG, I would have voted terrible. However, I realize this is only one of their games and I can't say I have played any others.

Therefore, I gave it a "Poor" because of my experiences with their customer service (billing issues specificly) and because of their handling of the game development of SWG.

I can't say I "hate" SOE though. Perhaps "frustrated" is a better term.

ahh now that makes a bit more sense then the original vaguery.

Most people have discussed resubbing for the purpose of ensuring their structure remains . I haven't heard many people resubbing just to take part in the destruction event, but sure, I guess that's worth $15 to people.

Still there are some catches. For those people who have not used their 14-day trial, that would still put them within the window to participate.

I guess it still seems like "bugs" are the likely cause of the delay as I can't envision the destruction event as some windfall for SOE. Additionally, I believe they delayed Chapter 6's roll-out in order to patch some last bugs. All things the same, it seems like the remaining dev team is taking some level of pride in their work and attempting to not add bugs to the existing code. That's just how I see it though. I am sure there are people with very valid points supporting alternate views.

ya but the previous poster was right. I mean, you only need to resub for 1 month. If they push the destruction out to three months from now, it wouldn't change that you only had to resub for one month. Just so long as you had one month of activity/subscription since april 2006 your structures are fine. Therefore, they aren't milking any further money from anyone who has actually resubed with the intention of leaving after one month.

so how is this a bad thing though?

Sure SOE wants more opportunity to get that one-time $15 it would take to mark your structures as active.

If they delay the destruction one week, it just means the abandoned structures exist in place for one more week. It gives people on the fence, one more week to resub and avoid the destruction if they so choose. It also has zero effect on those people who have moved on and have no intention of accessing their "abandoned" structure.

So sure, SOE may be trying to get that extra $15, but honestly, if they haven't gotten it by now with all the advanced warning they gave, do you really think they are expecting a mass resub because they pushed out the start of destruction by one week? That seems fairly unrealistic and, given peoples past complaints, needing to "bug fix" is a far more likely case and is more inline with SOE's track record.

I'd say there is actually a decent chance that the post on the SWG forums was at least mostly honest.

support or oppose the came in it's current state, this post leaves little room for debate the view points of those who continue to be dissatisfied with SOE.

Thanks for this post as it was a rare (from eaither side) example of a well thought out presentation of ideas. It would be neat to see a counter-post (if one has not already been started) of the opposing view. I am still relatively on the fence myself, but it seems there are certainly enough people who support the current game to make an intelligent summary of their views.

Originally posted by SWGLover

You could post 50 screen shots and it wouldn't be enough proof. 

My point exactly. Either side of the issue can post screen shots and there will be a fair number of oppositional views that attempt to discredit those screenshots with any number of qualifiers (i.e. time it was taken, server it was taken on, position of the planets at time of screen shot, etc). There are enough voices at each end of the argument that the truth has to lie somewhere in the middle.

In the end, life goes on and enjoying the game you play has to be satisfaction enough. After all, you are the one who is paying the monthly fee and therefore, you can make your own decisions about this sort of thing. (as clarification 'you' being a generic term and not specifcly the poster this is in reply to)

Originally posted by Mr.Wizard

then you *see* it wrong. What i wrote is what i meant. Not dead just quiet. So you didnt have to say that. ktnxbye

So, semantics aside, whether you say dead, quiet, desolate, or any other fancy term that translates to not seeing many players, the fact remains the conversation has been had. Since this thread repeats so often, my attempt to provide some constructive summary information (and possibly get some of the initial back and forth out of the way early) are just that and nothing more. However, if you would like to see for yourself you only need to go as far as http://mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/130939 to see the opposite point of view with screen shots to validate that point. You can also read the same exact conversation that will unfold here.

so, next time, before you criticize my eyesight, make sure we are looking at the same thing. kthnx<randomlettersofnosubstance>