I've only really looked at the SPriest notes, so can't really vote (would be nice to have a 'just see the results' option). That said, it seems SPriests are going to remain fairly level. If I recall, our dots are going to get weaker and our direct spells are going to be slightly stronger. Unless I completely misinterpreted the notes, I don't see much changing for us in terms of raw output. Not complaining mind you..I'm just glad Mind Seer actually does some damage again...even if we had to give up single-target, non-self dispels :P

Originally posted by tawess

Let me touch on this for a short while... While it stands to reason that this is true Blizzard recently lost 600.000 subscribers and even doing so their income was going up... And the reason for this is the "cash shop". So it is only sound for CCP to aim for this option since they can not count on a steady influx of players witha  game as old as this and the churn will sooner or later dip in to the negative. At this point i guess the question is... Do you rather have A GAME or NO GAME and this seems to be a logical step to try and make the former a goal instead of the later.

I would almost agree except for the fact that EvE has had pretty steady growth and has done more to expand/redefine it to keep it fresh/current. Also, it had uniqueness where many games follow a very similar design pattern. Now add to that the integration with planned products like Dust, which could have introduced a new audience to EvE, and it seems like the game had plenty of fuel to go for a bit longer. Now the thing I would not dispute is that CCP would like to get more money per player and that, perhaps, they can overcome any sub losses with attractive enough NeX items/prices.

As far as some of the "get over it/you're dumb" crowd, I suppose a lot of us have been through a significantly unpopular game change (or two) in the past. While I would not put this on the same level as something like the CU/NGE, at least not from a gameplay perspective, the company response and general lack of foresight on the matter certainly seems familiar. A lot of the people who are complaining about this really care about a game they felt a part of and now feel is heading down a path they can't follow. No one likes to feel like they are losing their game. :(

Originally posted by blazin-ace 

Just in case anyone still questions if it is real, an employee CCP Penn states that it is legitamate in this thread HERE.

Scroll down and you'll see it.

CCP Penn Quote:

The newsletter was not fake. I guess this is how it feels when someone reads your diary, something you hadn't intended anyone else to see. Not to deflect the heat but to explain why what I'm about to say, I wasn't involved with writing it. The only reason I mention that is because I am not going to presume to know the minds of the people who did have comments in there. I am not going to throw people I love under the bus or to the lions or whatever. I can't/won't answer questions about what they said or why they said it.

Our newsletters are written as a means to bring about discussion (that sometimes can even become heated debate) among our coworkers. That's really all I can say about it. I am not a game designer. I'm a mouthpiece. I'll admit it. By the time I get involved, the decisions have been made. Not making excuses for myself, just explaining.

No one is questioning the news letter at this point. CCP Pann admitted to it already. This is about the subsequent "global CCP email" that just adds fuel to the fire for many people.

Main reasons I am skeptical are:

• the monocal comment, which has come to be a negative representation of the whole Noble Exchange (and only thing you can actually display to others?)
• The fact that, after a recently leaked document, there was no expectation of more leaks. Once one gets out, you figure they would be under the assumption any further communications would not be secret.

• Good time for a staff moral message.
• Comment about smooth launch is in line with devblog. (but maybe that is a strike against?)

Originally posted by sadeyx

a few niggling complaints,  like needing to walk faster and I really need to zoom out more.

haha, oh good! I'm no the only one who thought this. :P

Overall, pretty cool and I thought some of the screens (like the Incursion screen mentioned previously) were really cool even if they were not as 'efficient' as traditional methods for access the info. Also, silly as it might seem, I also miss the ship spinning. I went out to see my ship thinking "ok, now I want to see the other side of it.....wait for it....wait for it....nevermind.....". As said though, the scale/perspective was still pretty impressive.

I thought the CQ and character looked great even on the lowest graphics settings. I didn't really get to explore too much, but am curious how it runs with 2 clients going. 

Really, this is a great introduction of Ambulation/WiS/Incarna (in my opinion) and I'm curious to see how it moves forward.

Originally posted by Robokapp

I find it strange to buy a spaceship cheaper than a pair of pants but....

You know...that really puts it in perspective for me. Personally, I don't plan to buy anything from the store, but the prices did seem off/odd to me and I couldn't put my finger on why. But the quoted part pretty much sums it up.

As far as the conversion rate, is that the conversion for PLEX or GTC. The OP said GTC which, as I understood, can be converted to two PLEX.

edit: did a little searching, PLEX to Aur conversion is 1 to 3500. My GTC comment was based on 60-day GTCs so that is likely where i got confused.

Originally posted by Malcanis

... and everyone can be happy.

Well now...that's just silly talk... :P

Originally posted by Madimorga 

Then perhaps for EVEMon and EFT, and for anything else deemed worthy, CCP should host the sites themselves, certify it all malware free, recoup the cost of doing so through advertisements and donations, and then the app creator keeps every cent of the rest.  I'm not sure what the extra cost of setting all of this up would be, but since certain third party developers have contributed a great deal to the community, why shouldn't CCP partner with those developers in a limited fashion?

Everyone else would have to forgo donations or earn their way into a partnership, but surely they should at least be allowed to keep reasonable advertising to cover some of the cost of hosting.  Donations are tricky, however, especially any donation that gets the user extra services.

As for this being an anti-malware campaign, I don't see how it can be, since only those developers making money will pay the fee.  Is such a small fee from a limited number of people supposed to cover the cost of scrutinizing every app created for Eve?  I don't see it. 

If CCP could break even from hosting third party developers and if the developers could turn a profit from their best work, it would be great publicity for CCP.  Look, a way to contribute to the community and get something in return, with CCP's approval! 

Yeah, the "deemed worthy" is sorta a sticky wa to quantify it. I mean, what is worthy "x number of download" or some metric like that? Pretty much any metric can be inflated and then CCP has to deal with claims of fraud and/or favoritism regarding the apps they host.

Regarding CCPs approval, my thought is that exposing the API and encouraging its use has been implicit approval for some time now. Don't get me wrong, great if they want to make it explicit approval now. Just thought the first draft was worded in a way that seemed hostile to the developer community that has helped make the game great. Glad they are taking a step back to examine the idea and hopefully it gets refined in a manner that is beneficial to the 'non-profit dev'.

I agree with a lot of what Malcanis has already said on the topic. I don't think EvE has such an audience that this move makes a whole lot of sense and the execution of the initial announcement was poorly thought out (as evidenced by the ample feedback they got). I don't get the sense that the development community was engaged in this and I think that would have been beneficial. Even running it by the CSM would have been a positive move (that also does not appear to have happened). Additionally, when charging a fee for the privilege of developing utilities to enhance the game, a developer would be well within their right to expect better documentation or even an SDK. The best documentation seems to be fan made and, as best I can tell, an SDK is non-existent (though completely possible I just have not looked in the right place). 

If you think about it, what are some of the first things people are told when they join EvE (in random order, and by no means complete); get EvEMon, get EFT, do the tutorials. That exemplifies, to me, how important the development community is to the game, and good to see CCP stepping back and looking at how they can clear up any misunderstandings. We'll see what v2 brings....

Originally posted by Teala

Without the community that supports EVE - EVE would be nothing.  EVE is it's community.  Now CCP wants to crap all over them by charging 3rd party app developers a fee to allow people to use the 3rd party services.  Is that your ideal of supporting your community that made you what you are?

Nobody is saying CCP "cannot" do this...we're telling them...it is a stupid ideal. Get it.

Something we can agree on. CCP; bringing people together....

My initial reaction is fairly negative regarding the "monetization of 3rd party apps". I know they promised a bit more clarification and that the initial blog post was stated to be 'not set in stone', but just to show the community their initial thoughts and get some feedback (which they got in liberal amounts it seems). Curious to see how they 'iterate' on this one....

Not to say that announcement justifies any sort of retaliation and, honestly, I don't think LulzSec really needs any other reason aside from the reaction they seem to be getting..

Originally posted by Malcanis

Guys that mine minerals, make and sell Scorpions most definitely are.

This would be my point of contention as well. Until some form of regular Scorpion trade-on (like Raven to Navy Issue Raven in LP store) is full implemented, I don't think the ship should be sold in the market place as it provides another route around the in-game crafters. That's just my initial gut reaction though.

On a seperate thought, this does start looking like an alternative to mission grinding for LP. I mean, with trade-ins, why not have faction mods and ships as well as LP skill books and implants? I mean, any sort of logic can be used to justify whatever is being sold I suppose. Now, imagine how much they would make selling "CONCORD Signal Disruptors" (delay CONCORD response time to a grid) during Hulkaggedon....(and then how much they might lose via high sec miner subs of course :P). Anyhow *tangent over and sorry about that*....

Originally posted by CracMonki

 

A true group of hackers would not brag about doing DoS attacks on people. They would hack and release said information without leaving a trail. That is a true hacker... To take information from one location and display it on another location without leaving a trail, thats something to see. 

 

Sorta like this: http://lulzsecurity.com/releases/ ?

Only thing missing from your equation is the "no trail" part, but to their credit, and supposing those 'releases' aren't fabricated, they seem to have some level of ability to do more then DDoS. Agree though, the flame that burns twice as bright lasts half as long....

for those keeping score at home...

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/06/titanic-takeover-tuesday-lulzsecs-busy-day-of-hacking-escapades.ars

Basically, it is the lulzsec twitter feed editorialized to fit an article format, but does a good job of listing the activities today (and almost makes them sound slightly entertaining).

Originally posted by ElderRat

apparently they are mad at Sony and are attacking all linked to it.

of course, that could be people looking ofr a pattern where none exists. I mean, the Senate, Bethesda, EvE, League of Legends, etc etc.. I'm sure a link to Sony could be found somewhere in all their targets, but that is more a result of Sony being pretty large and having products in all sorts of sectors then any sort of collusion. EvE just recently announced the PS3/Dust deal so that becomes the first conclusion given their various hacks against different divisions of Sony. Of course, if some tenious link to Sony is the factor they are going by, it should be near impossible to predict who will be next....except they do announce some of their targets ahead of time i mean :P

Originally posted by Cryroth

there a problem with DDOS attacks .You can be protected from each holes but its still possible to do a DDOS attack.Everygamer / person should go against this type of behavior especially personal information that these no life idiots steals .

 

Another thing i would add , nothing comes positive from the gamer perspective neither the compagny itself .DDOS can come with huge consequences (monetary loss ,costumer etc..) .So my opinion on this? take all these asshats and put them in a island ,nuke them out of this world.Everyone would be happier without idiots like these going on a rage spree because mommy didn't pay there bill's.

 

sorry for the bad grammar .I'm not 100% english speaker .

Hence my part about disclosing details. If it was only DDoS, then sure, while there may be a number of methods to mitigate the impact of DDoS, customer impact (Aside from outtage) is likely going to be minimal.

If there was more to it then DDoS, then I disagree that nothing good can come of it. As I said, an increased focus on security would be a positive result despite short term losses. Additionally, the good does not have to be limited to CCP as other companies can learn from any 'mistakes' they made have made. Sure, life would be roses if something like this never happened, but really, if not lulzsec, then someone else these days it seems. For each "hack" lulzsec brags about, how many hacks are perpetrated by groups who do not publicize and how many customers are left in the dark. I know it's juvenielle and inconvenient, but it is also informative on some level...

At any rate, seems Lulzsec really has it in for games today...EvE, Minecraft, and League of Legends so far...Not that I would endorse it (mainly because that would leave me with two games I can't play), but wonder how resilient Blizzard's infrastructure is...

edit: also, completely agree with Kalfer's point. I'd be more concerned about kneejerk legislation then not being able to play a video game for the day, but that is just my view....

well...hopefully the EvE security team learns from this and CCP as a company can quickly disclose details regarding any compromised information so thier customers can take action (cancel credit cards or whatever would be appropriate). 

Bit bummed I can't play at the moment, but hopeful something positive can come of this (i.e. greater focus on security and resilience against ddos). 

Not so much mad at lulzsec, but I imagine that'll change the longer the servers are down :P

Didn't see it posted, but this was also referenced on Slashdot..

http://slashdot.org/story/11/06/14/1815217/EVE-Online-Targeted-By-LulzSec

Originally posted by kobie173

Why are people so hung up on making people's gear rot off their bodies as some key component of "sandboxiness"?

Decay was nothing but crafter welfare. Period.

Decay contributes to gear distruction which contributes to a more meaningful in-game economy.  Additionally, it gave a reason to hunt down specific qualities of materials. It is not so much that it maes the game more or less of a sandbox as it makes playing as a crafter more viable. It also fit well within the larger social environment of the game. While I can see it being viewed as "crafter welfare" I see it as being a feature for those who really enjoyed crafting and thus put in effort to create a superior product and introduced a bit more complexity then the typical "crafting as an after thought" that is so pevelant in many other games. 

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by mklinic

Just to be clear, are you implying that vehicles could not be crafted before teh TCG came along? As far as wanting more houses, that is certainly subjective and easily fixed my enforcing placement restrictions on house styles. Not introducing TCG content that can be placed anywhere couldnt hurt.

At launch there were no vehicles.  they were added in later and a couple craftable oens were added in, but given easy material list (just bulk materiels, no subcomponents).  Given how complicated it is to craft droids and such, a true vehicle crafting system would likely be equally as involving with all different parts (like quality accelerator having an affect on your accelerator).  This type of system was never implemented, so crafters only got generic landspeeders and swoops.  Basically it would be adding a whole new class tot he game, although you could give it to Droid Engineer as a specialization option like Architect has with shipwright.  But given the resources the game has this is really just a pipe dream.

Also, as I said fairly recently they pretty much doubled the number of craftable houses, including adding windowed housing.  As for the specialty housing, they have added some as in game rewards but no specialty structure has been given directly to a crafter.  You can say it lessens the crafting role, but it really doesnt cut into demand.  Most of this stuff looks nice on the outside but is cramped inside and really just 'for show'.

 

Now, the question is not whether the TCG is finiancially viable, but more whether it is a contributing factor to a diminished game for crafters. Naturally, this is an opinion call in many respects and I think my opinion is pretty clear at this point. That said, if you did want ot make an argument on this point, it could be framed as to whether investing in actually improving hte game would draw more subs and result in a greater revenue gain then the TCG provides for the reduced sub base. It'd be a speculative excercise of course, but that'd probably be a fun tangent to explore.

The crafting here is already deeper than any AAA MMO, and is more integrated into the community than any other AAA MMO.  Adding more variety might retain more crafters, but I dont think it would draw any in.  Anyone that hasnt played SWG before will already be in awe.  I am in ther camp that architects are in good shape.  they are the only crafter that can craft items while leveling up that people will use.  Their housing is still very much used, and guild halls, cantina, shuttleports and the like they are the only option.

Now your argument about the loot drops taking away some of the value is far more valid in my eyes.  Crafted stuff is still heavily used however, a lot of the 'item sets' are jewlery which was never given to crafters anyway.  And of course the question is, if crafted loot is always the best loot in all occasions, that takes away some of the fun of killing bosses.

They tried to have a system where crafters will always be needed to enhance items with RE, but its not the best system.  If I were in charge I would make a system where bosses dropped high quality one time use patterns where you had to commision a WS/AS to make your new gear.  but I am not in charge.

At least we are on the same page that the TCG implemented immersion breaking content that would have otherwise not made it into the game though. That certianly reinforces, for me, that the TCG is a parasitic feature.

It should be implemented better.  It works just fine in eq2.  There is just laziness with some of the items being immersion breaking.  But then this is a game of wookiee Jedis so LA/SoE crossed the immersion line long ago.

Reality, crafting was a strong point of the game before the TCG. The fundamental mechanics are still in place despite its diminished value. So, one of the strong features of the game was in place well before teh CU, let alone the NGE, but instead of leveraging the strength of that feature, SOE opted for the TCG and other changes that make it less appealing....

Again, its still the best out there.  Improving on it isnt going to cause a spike in subscriptions (most likely anyway).  It is widely known that SWG has an amazing crafting system.  the other facets of the game need help, and ultimately its those other facets that hurt SWG.  The number of players that will stay with a game with amazing crafting but mediocre everywthing else is very small (as can be seen by SWG lol).  SWG needs work elsewhere.  Badly.  SWG also needs money to do that work because they arent making a whole lot of it.

SoE already has the TCG system in place.  It was a low cost way to pump extra revenue into the game, a game that desperately needs extra revenue.  You need money to develop your game and SWG wasnt going to get a substantial increase in subs to make more money.  So the TCG was the natural option.  Again, the implementation of the loot cards (mainly with immersion breakers like the stupid tuantaun kids ride thing) could have been done better but it was a smart call overall considering the other options.

And as for the other changes which have diminished crafting (which i agree with you they have though not to the extent you do), Ive discussed that as well too.  In my personal ideal world to be the best you can be you should have to get your hands dirty as well as use crafted stuff.  Again, I would do things differently, but adding in some drops being desirable is good for the overall health of the game.

Not a big fan of inline commenting as it gets pretty messy, so responding below and will try to keep it all in order:

At launch? That is hardly an accurate comaprison. As was pointed out earlier, it is more accurate to compare Pre-CU to today. You can take just about any MMO that manages to stay running for any amount of time and say it has more stuff then it had at launch. Fact is vehicle crafting has been in game for some time. It would be perfectly logical to enhance vehicle crafting within the Shipwright's role as ships are, by and large, combat vehicles. So, you can overcomplicate the implelmentation all you want, but the simplest answer is often the best one.

We still agree on the immersion breaking, but you added that the SWG team is lazy as well. Good progress.

Now as far as crafting, it is not about "improving" so much as "not degrading". If crafting is a strong part of the game, why screw with it by increasing loot drops and removing decay and such? If people recognize that "x" is a strong feature, perhaps some analysis into what makes it strong and how not to screw up that part is merited. In the end it just looks like more effort was spent trying to find creative ways to diminish crafting then was spent trying to make the game more appealing.

Again with the financial justification for the TCG which noone has debated....But, as I said, there is a case to be made for polishing the game to attract new customers versus squeezing customers you already have. And let's face it, the system is designed to encourage you to buy TCG cards above and beyond the monthly freebies else it wouldn't present a financial boon to the game. And before it comes up, looking at the CU/NGE, I don't think either qualifies as 'polishing' the game.

Your last paragraph sums it all up though. You agree crafting is diminished. We can disagree on specifics and degrees, but ultimately, it comes down to: The degree of the changes are not enough to drive you away, but enough to prevent me from coming back. The details are clearly matters of taste and opinion but this conversation has certainly led me to believe the TCG is a pretty crappy feature and, while your resulting view is different, you at least seem to agree with some of the reasons I believe so (i.e. immersion breaking, contributes to diminshed crafting)

Originally posted by teakbois

Go back and reread the post.  I pointed out that a special item given in the game (the YT-1300 house, NOT a TCG loot) requires an architect to make.  So while its not a schematic for repeated use, a crafter is still required to make the item.  

And no one has to spend a dime on the TCG to get the rewards.  They just need luck.

Really there is nothing contradictory in my post.  You just dont have any desire to understand, or to see for yourself.

As you already agreed the TCG introduced immersion breaking items that otherwise would not have been in game, I think I've read and understood your posts just fine. If my understnading were so far off, why would you agree with me at all? My continued line of questions has been to try to understand things further, however you seem to have a knack for contradicting your comments, whether you are willing to acknowledge it or not, which makes it very hard to determine whether you are really supporting the TCG or just being satirical. There is no lack of desire, you're just sending out very mixed messages that require clarification.