Originally posted by Ozmodan

Another two faction game with fail written all over it.  If you look at how many games fail at pvp because of just two factions, you just have to realize that unless you have more than two, one faction will become dominant, the other will quit and then the dominant one will quit.  Happens every time, not just occasionally.

If you can't figure out what works and what does not work in this genre you have no business designing games in it. 

 

I'll have to agree with you on that Oxmodan.  Though I prefer not to separate the community, period.  In terms of communications, grouping, etc..  Nomatter how many people can try to tell me that I'm wrong, I still believe that nobody has done the faction system right since Ultima Online.

They offered 4 Factions that you could join up with at any point during your characters progression.  Minax, Council of Mages, True Brittannians, and The Shadowlords.  Once you align yourself with one of them you are then place in a type of "PvP" mode.  Anytime you see a member of the three opposing factions you would be able to attack them without penalty.  Granted, UO offered much more in their faction system than PvP alone.  Each Faction was given a Stronghold.  These strongholds held a magical sphere called a "Sigil".  The objective for any other faction was to invade your Stronghold and steal your Sigil.  What a Sigil would do for you and your faction would be to grant control of a specific town or city to you.  Thus allowing you to hire NPC guards to help protect your Stronghold, raise or lower the Tax Rate within the town, etc..

As Ozmodan stated above the point is that 1v1 always has a dominate winner and a regular loser.  Mixing it up a little with additional factions greatly increases the amount of competition and the strategy of the combat.  Another benefit to the UO system that I also believe should be widely adapted is the fact that you choose the Faction alignment when you're ready.  On your own terms.  You don't make yourself vulnerable to PvP assault until you feel as if you can handle it.  In addition to that, you don't seclude yourself from half of the player base the second you choose your race or alignment.

Originally posted by Blindchance

Originally posted by Frostbite05

Originally posted by Blindchance

Originally posted by Frostbite05

Originally posted by vesavius

Aventurine are 5657575 times the company Cryptic are, and I say that as a non subber.

 

City of heroes has more active players on off hours than DF has in total kinda says alot.

 

Which has as much to do with the game's quality as with the fact most of MMOs' players would rage quit just after any DF player would loot their dirty rags and a goblin dropped sword.

 

Darkfall shows that you can make a game like that and have it sorta of work. The problem is the game itself is of a very poor quality. Just imagine if a real company made a similar game.

It is not lack of quality which worries my about DF ( have you ever played MO ? THAT's what I call lack of quality ). It is simply lack of content. The game is shallow, which is a shame as it could be a great sandbox.

 

My sentiments exactly.  Though it's the skill system that led me to quit the beta.

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Originally posted by Effect
Maybe I missed it but I don't see any misconceptions about PvP here. It's always about the gear and I don't believe anyone really thinks other wise. One would wish it was about skill but not one really believes that. More often then now unless it's structured it is a gankfest and these designers have to know that. They might not want to openly admit as it could be bad for business but they know full well what systems they designed. Those that have the most money to buy multiple accounts will have a clear advantage over everyone else. Those that don't have a life and play the game nonstop will have and advantage over everyone else.

What I would have liked for them to have done was address the difference between a PvPer and a Pker. It is the PKers that give PvP a never reputation (not a misconception but highlight the problems that are actually there) and who simply want prey.

It would have been nice if Shadowbane, Ultima Online and the creation of Trammel, and Dark Age of Camelot's Frontier were talked about in terms of their positives and negatives. This didn't really seem like a discussion on the topic of PvP. More like PR speak.

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Agreed. There are many ways to create a successful PvP game but there are also many things that can destroy it. Item-based PvP is one of the worse afflictions. In a competition over who is the better fighter it just doesn't make sense to involve who has the better gear. I understand the entire carrot on a stick theory as far as PvE is concerned however it just doesn't make any sense to apply the same concept to PvP.

There are ways to have both. If the developers give all items a default DMG cap against other players for example. With a more Arena style of PvP players can be stripped of their items and forced to equip themselves with the gear offered in the arena before the match begins. The original gear would be traded back of course after the match. Certain spells or abilities should not be available in PvP combat and others should also have a DMG cap vs other players..

Also developers need to balance PvP on a 1v1 scale without using a Paper/Rock/Scissors system. Large scale PvP matters little when simple 1v1 combat is not up to par.

These are things that can contribute to a fair, albeit unrealistic, PvP Environment.

[quote]Originally posted by uncus
[b]Getting repeatably ganked while harvesting [Ryzom] or running to an appropriate level dungeon [AC Darktide] or just fighting different MOBs [DAoC] wastes my time and essentially ruins the game for me.  It was always repeatedly ganked, sometimes by the same individual[s] and sometimes not, but it was never just once so that I could "ha ha, good moves there /salute" and move on.
[/b][/quote]

It sounds likely to me that maybe in your harvesting scenarios the opponent was after the same resources as yourself and possibly perceived you as a threat to him/her or "his/her" resources. You also have to expect a PvP situation bordering any instance. Instances are areas of the game where groups of players (all of similar levels) will come together on a regular basis. This makes the area a "Hot Spot" for PvP. A PvP enthusiast prefers to stay within these "Hot Spots" in order to get the most PvP action. Being in a low population area is to the PvP enthusiast what wastes his/her time and essentially ruins the game for them.

Ganking is an entirely different conversation. Granted, some people will not engage in PvP Combat unless they are absolutely positive that they have the upper hand on their opponent. It's sad but it's very true. However, most people tend to run around with a group of friends knowing that at any time they could stumble upon a group of opposing enemies and realize the difficulties that could arise in fighting them alone. It is also slightly more fun to share these PvP experiences with friends. This seems all fine and dandy up until the point where that lower-level solo player of the opposing faction runs out onto the road in front of your party. Ideally, you just run past him and leave him be, hoping that he will notify his faction of your presence. Though commonly players will launch the attack expecting the player to whine about it or request assistance via his/her chat channels. In either scenario the goal here is to alert the opposing faction that you are a threat within their territory. You are attempting to create a "Hot Spot" of your own through this behavior. The deeper within their territory you get (which unfortunately also happens to be the usual "lowbie" or low-level areas) the more of a rush you get because you feel as if it took more of a challenge to get there or because you've managed to launch an attack on an area that you shouldn't have a chance in hell of getting to.

UO (Ultima Online) had implemented a Faction system where there were Faction Strongholds located outside of town and in otherwise desolate areas. These Strongholds were ideal PvP "Hot Spots" for any Faction member. This system also worked because the Faction Ruleset only applied on the Felucca (PvP) half of the shard (realm) allowing those that aren't interested in the conflicts to avoid it completely. In my opinion no other PvP system has ever succeeded as well as the UO systems. With Guild Wars, Factions, and the Chaos/Order system, you didn't even have to become a murderer in order to enjoy the competition. Toss in the fact that FFA PvP only existed on the Felucca side of the shard and you have the perfect system. One that rewarded those that were willing to face the additional risk and one that sheltered those unwilling to participate. Neither side wrong, nor punished, just different.

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Originally posted by Ozmodan
The only misconceptions about pvp in most of these games is that the developers think people will play fair, while most do there are enough that will take advantage of any edge to ruin it for the rest of us.
I don't know any f2p that even has a resemblance of fair pvp.  Everyone is pay to win and not a cheap pay at that.  Saw someone say that Warhammer has the best pvp, which is a real laugh to me.  Best pvp I ever had was DAoC pre Atlantis.  UO was not bad either before they borked it up with later expansions.  Even AC had better pvp on Darktide than Warhammer.  Too bad Mythic could not look back at their past to see what worked.

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I have to agree with that. Though I was too big of a UO fanatic at the time and never got to try DAOC. I really regret that :/

I can only guess as strict as they seem to be be server population and balance control that once we do log in that the launch will be rather smooth.

However, I disagree with how they've performed things thus far. They should have never allowed for more characters per server than their hardware could handle. I understand things will calm in the days or weeks to come but they could have waited until then to reopen servers that would otherwise stall players at launch with 2 hour queue times.

I understand server caps. I understand that not all accounts will be active at all times. What I don't understand is why the company would set the cap per server at a level to where they couldn't handle it if all accounts were active at once (As one would expect during a launch). They could have easily raised the cap in the later days or weeks in order to provide additional population on these servers if they really needed to.

I was required to enter payment info when I activated the account on the NCSoft program. It asked me how frequently I would like to make the payments and for my payment info. I don't think you could miss that step. Maybe you haven't even activated your account yet?

I would prefer to be Elyos because I am sure that the more mature crowd will be upon them. However, my friends are forcing me to go Asmo. So be it I guess. Everyone wants to be the "cool" or the "badass" race... Just gotta suffer the general chat spam and crappy pick up groups.

I actually played Elyos in beta and I found the atmosphere to be much more refreshing.

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Originally posted by bloodaxes
The 2nd dwarf :P
Check //\\//\\oo pic a dark dwarf :P

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He's pretty big for a Dwarf but okay I'll give it to him.

And of course I'll bless you guys with a full body shot :)

The first Aion Dwarf..  (In this thread anyway)

You don't even lose your gear or anything when you die in Aion, do you?

I wouldn't really call it hardcore pvp.. It's just PvP in a simple form. If you don't want to participate just let yourself die and continue your quest afterwards.

I honestly don't see the purpose of a game that doesn't focus on PvP in the end. You can kill hundreds, thousands, millions of computer generated mobs for the rest of your life but it will always be the same. Those mobs will never change up their routines, or surprise you in combat. It's stale. I require the challenge of another human mind.

Besides.. Aion is far from being Open FFA PvP. Sure, it has Open PvP Zones, but hell, when you don't wish to pvp simply exit the zone. Granted in order to advance within the game world you must eventually understand the formula of risk vs reward. Or should I say Challenge/Difficulty vs reward since there really isn't any risk involved.

If the idea of PvP is just too much for you there is one more thing that you could try. Imagine that all enemy players are computer generated with computer AI. Tell yourself that they are challenging because the developers have created the most sophisticated combat AI system that any game has ever come up with. If you treat enemy players as additional mobs or monsters within the game world then maybe you can finally see their purpose. To create a fun and interesting challenge for you to face within these zones.

Graphics are better than they are in WoW. At level 10 you get wings and can fly for a short duration of time in some zones. You can open a player store which means you can place items up for sale and go afk and others can purchase those items off of your character at your set price while you are afk... But there is also an Auction House that nullifies the use for player stores.

There are combo spells/attacks that require the use of one ability before the 2nd or 3rd can be used. Interesting concept but also rather mind numbing pressing the same buttons every battle.

Some quests initiate a video cut scene upon completion that is sort of interesting but nothing spectacular.

I'm not a fan of WoW but I have to admit that it is the better game of the two. Aion is more like an upgraded version of a Free 2 Play asian grind MMO. There's a few new features that are interesting but in comparison to a Mega Giant such as WoW they just don't compare.

In WoW the fights are more fluid, the parties are more immersing, the UI has more to offer, and the game is more group friendly in terms of xp gain for leveling.

But if you absolutely have to play something other than WoW... I'd give Aion a shot :)

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Originally posted by kalaren
 
You're kidding right? When WoW came out, on most if not all servers alliance outnumbered horde. It wasn't until blood elves  were introduced that people started to move over. If i remember correctly one server had a 1:5 ratio of horde to alliance.

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I do believe that Undead was the Most popular race due to the racial ability. Alliance was the most popular faction I will give you that as Night Elves and Humans gathered the 2nd and 3rd most followers. But then both Orcs and Trolls were more popular than Gnomes and Dwarves. (My first character was a Dwarf of course.. 2nd was a Gnome, haha)

I like being rare... So I play as whatever I have to in order to stay in accordance with such a status.

Interesting question. I would imagine that the retailer you wish to purchase the box version from should be able to answer this for you.

They may give you the key upon reciept of funds. I prefer sites such as D2D since I don't have to worry about scratching up a disc and rebuying the game, etc..

I notice that in most MMOs the race of choice tends to be the ugly, demonic, or evil race types.. Perhaps it has something to do with the way people tend to act or portray themselves over the internet as "badass".

Of course there are the exceptions but in WoW I must say the popular races were mostly Horde.

I tend to enjoy playing as the minority race whichever race that is. I like being outnumbered in PvP combat and I believe that the fewer the players around me the more that I can stand out amongst them.

I notice that in most MMOs the race of choice tends to be the ugly, demonic, or evil race types.. Perhaps it has something to do with the way people tend to act or portray themselves over the internet as "badass".

Of course there are the exceptions but in WoW I must say the popular races were mostly Horde. Chances are that the OP played on a server where he was outnumbered by the Alliance. That was an exception.

I tend to enjoy playing as the minority race whichever race that is. I like being outnumbered in PvP combat and I believe that the fewer the players around me the more that I can stand out amongst them.

I knew Asmo was going to be the popular race. I was anticipating going Elyos from the beginning but all of my friends were saying I would be wrong.

Heh.. Like that's ever happened.

I have to admit that I agree with the OP.

Aion felt like a F2P with better graphics and aggro mobs. I felt as if there was more grind than there was entertainment. Granted the people seemed to be a little more mature and English speaking than they would be in most other F2Ps.

I just think that everyone is trying so hard to replace WoW that they are pretty much willing to accept anything. Which would explain why Aion is getting so much attention. I'm still on the fence with this one.
I really don't ever remember thinking that Aion was at all Difficult or Challenging. Which is rather depressing.

Regardless.. For the same reason I bought WoW I may end up buying Aion. Just nothing else out there.

Gotta love how the NSCOFT Account Management page is down due to SCHEDULED maintenance. They are so full of shit!!

Yeah, my friend and I had the same issue. He changed his info and is on. Site went down before I could change mine :/