Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Ebonheart

I explained a better way to offer access, based upon which product someone purchased and not when they purchased it.

 Better for who?  Sorry, pure self interest doesn't qualify as better. Now if you want to slip me $150.00 you can have my place in line.

Better refers to "fairness" based upon the amount of money spent, which I stated was the only legitimate reason why people should be upset about the current early access entry process.

Therefore, I offered an alternative method of entry priority that would be fair to the buyers and more beneficial to EA/Bioware.

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by Ebonheart

Stating my argument is invalid does not make it so.

My argument is that the rolling access process (based on date of purchase) is unfair and inefficient.

(see initial argument)

 

They most definitely did NOT make the best choice possible.

Whether or not everyone knew about that process beforehand is irrelevant.

I bought first, I get in first.   How is that not fair?

Explain to me how 4 hour server queues is a better choice.

Then Explain to me how closing down servers in 2 months because they opened too many to alleviate server queues is a better choice.

 

4 hour server queues are not a better choice,  and neither is closing down server after a few months due to population issues.

I explained a better way to offer access, based upon which product someone purchased and not when they purchased it.

13th = Collectors Edition Pre-order

14th = Digital Deluxe Edition Pre-order

15th = Regular Edition Pre-order

You get earlier access because you paid more for that access (and the extra goodies).

Not only is it fair to give those who payed more for that access priority, but it also encourages people to purchase the more expensive editions in order to get in early.

More money for EA/Bioware

Everyone gets in by the end of the 15th.

Players are happy

Staff is happy

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by Ebonheart

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by Ebonheart

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by Ebonheart

Yeah, it's more like 4 days of Early Access for a good chunk of people, including myself.

 

Let me outline the problem with this method of early entry.

Everyone ordered the same product (excluding the CO) and payed the same amount of money for that product.

However, if you ordered it early you are getting more for your money, whilst those who ordered later are recieving less for their money.

This by itself is the only legitimate reason to be upset.

 

The only way in which players should be selectively preferred is if they payed more money (ex. Collector Edition).

The only means by which they have maintained their integrity is by the vague promisary wording ("up to 5 days") on the item info.

 

It would have been a much better marketing idea (and process of preferential selection) to split the early access into three groups.

 

13th = Those with a CO ($149?)

14th = Those with the Digital Deluxe Edition ($79?)

15th = Those with the Regular Edition ($59?)

 

In fact, I am quite amazed they didn't take this approach in order to maximize the amount of digital sales.

So suddenly after all this time, the concept of "First come, first served" is no longer viable and fair?  Really?

"First come, first served" is viable and fair in many situations.

However, this is neither a food line nor a restaurant.

 

Everyone purchased the same product with the same information regarding what they would recieve.

"Up to 5 days"

 

Now however, it is obvious that whilst everyone payed the same amounts (relatively) some individuals are getting more for their money, whilst others are getting less.

This is still a line.  They stated from the beginning what the rules were.  Some of us ordered early in order to get in earlier.  Others chose to wait, and have to now act like adults and accept the consequences.

This was THE BEST way for BioWare to handle things in order to avoid 4 hour queues that would have even more people whining and crying, as well as to avoid having to merge servers shortly after launch, which would also cause people to whine and cry about how the game must obviously be a failure because it has to be bleeding subs.

So, they chose the most fair option that will give the least amount of whining and crying.  They were honest and upfront about the option.  They even moved the early access date up to help everyone get a couple extra days... but even THAT can't stop all of the whining and crying.  Why?  Because some people are just determined to be miserable and want to make everyone else miserable with them.

My argument is against the process itself, not whether they sufficiently explained that process beforehand.

Your argument is still invalid.  They clearly made the best choice possible, and informed everyone of that choice.

Stating my argument is invalid does not make it so.

My argument is that the rolling access process (based on date of purchase) is unfair and inefficient.

(see initial argument)

They most definitely did NOT make the best choice possible.

Whether or not everyone knew about that process beforehand is irrelevant.

Originally posted by Infeareal

Originally posted by Ebonheart

Originally posted by Infeareal

It is very simple. It is first come, first served. No one is more special than anyone else (unless we are talking little school bus speshul). Race, creed, age, color, job, guild(lol),etc get you no special treatment or are you discriminated against. One simple rule. First come, First served.

This isn't a food line, it's an MMO.

First come - first serve should only be applicable if you payed more money (ex. Collectors Edition).

I'm honesly not that disappointed, but some people are getting more for their money (a minor amount in the big picture), whilst those who payed the same amount (at a later date) are getting the shaft with regards to early access.

Really do you understand first come, first served. Which has nothing to do with just food. Anything you have to wait for in life is that way, it has nothing to do with the amount of money you pay. You wait in line at the grocery store you do not get anything special because you have more groceries and are paying more money. Either way, the sense of entitlement in people now a days is retarded. If you get something extra for any reason, your lucky, nothing more.

 

edit - If you get something more for paying more than others that a whole different line of money is power, corruption, etc. A whole different conversation though. That rule applies if you are the exception not everyone has the oppurtunity to pay more to get more.

You don't pay to wait in line at the grocery store, you pay for the products which you are buying.

You do pay to get into early access (and the entry process), and the people in front of you are getting more for their money whilst those in the back are getting less.

Response to Edit:

If I buy a steak for $30 and someone else buys one for $10, I damn well hope i'm getting a better steak.

Originally posted by Robsolf

Originally posted by Ebonheart

"First come, first served" is viable and fair in many situations.

However, this is neither a food line nor a restaurant.

 

Everyone purchased the same product with the same information regarding what they would recieve.

"Up to 5 days"

 

Now however, it is obvious that whilst everyone payed the same amounts (relatively) some individuals are getting more for their money, whilst others are getting less.

So you're saying that Rift players at launch should demand their 50 bucks back?

I don't know (or rather... remember) the circumstances of that launch so I can't comment on that.

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by Ebonheart

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by Ebonheart

Yeah, it's more like 4 days of Early Access for a good chunk of people, including myself.

 

Let me outline the problem with this method of early entry.

Everyone ordered the same product (excluding the CO) and payed the same amount of money for that product.

However, if you ordered it early you are getting more for your money, whilst those who ordered later are recieving less for their money.

This by itself is the only legitimate reason to be upset.

 

The only way in which players should be selectively preferred is if they payed more money (ex. Collector Edition).

The only means by which they have maintained their integrity is by the vague promisary wording ("up to 5 days") on the item info.

 

It would have been a much better marketing idea (and process of preferential selection) to split the early access into three groups.

 

13th = Those with a CO ($149?)

14th = Those with the Digital Deluxe Edition ($79?)

15th = Those with the Regular Edition ($59?)

 

In fact, I am quite amazed they didn't take this approach in order to maximize the amount of digital sales.

So suddenly after all this time, the concept of "First come, first served" is no longer viable and fair?  Really?

"First come, first served" is viable and fair in many situations.

However, this is neither a food line nor a restaurant.

 

Everyone purchased the same product with the same information regarding what they would recieve.

"Up to 5 days"

 

Now however, it is obvious that whilst everyone payed the same amounts (relatively) some individuals are getting more for their money, whilst others are getting less.

This is still a line.  They stated from the beginning what the rules were.  Some of us ordered early in order to get in earlier.  Others chose to wait, and have to now act like adults and accept the consequences.

This was THE BEST way for BioWare to handle things in order to avoid 4 hour queues that would have even more people whining and crying, as well as to avoid having to merge servers shortly after launch, which would also cause people to whine and cry about how the game must obviously be a failure because it has to be bleeding subs.

So, they chose the most fair option that will give the least amount of whining and crying.  They were honest and upfront about the option.  They even moved the early access date up to help everyone get a couple extra days... but even THAT can't stop all of the whining and crying.  Why?  Because some people are just determined to be miserable and want to make everyone else miserable with them.

My argument is against the process itself, not whether they sufficiently explained that process beforehand.

Originally posted by Iselin

Originally posted by Ebonheart

Yeah, it's more like 4 days of Early Access for a good chunk of people, including myself.

 

Let me outline the problem with this method of early entry.

Everyone ordered the same product (excluding the CO) and payed the same amount of money for that product.

However, if you ordered it early you are getting more for your money, whilst those who ordered later are recieving less for their money.

This by itself is the only legitimate reason to be upset.

 

The only way in which players should be selectively preferred is if they payed more money (ex. Collector Edition).

The only means by which they have maintained their integrity is by the vague promisary wording ("up to 5 days") on the item info.

 

It would have been a much better marketing idea (and process of preferential selection) to split the early access into three groups.

 

13th = Those with a CO ($149?)

14th = Those with the Digital Deluxe Edition ($79?)

15th = Those with the Regular Edition ($59?)

 

In fact, I am quite amazed they didn't take this approach in order to maximize the amount of digital sales.

 

A good ole American no-holds-barred capitalist. I bet you'd have no problem with people buying their way into heaven.... Fact: anyone with the reading comprehension of a 1st grader has known for months that they were doing it this way...that was part of the deal when you preordered. Then they threw in a bonus of 2 extra days and all the kiddies threw a tantrum. They done good.

>inference about policy beliefs

>inference about values

>underhanded insult regarding the intelligence of anyone who is displeased with the process

No refutation of my argument that some individuals are getting more for their money (for buying the same product) whilst the other are getting less for theirs.

Suit yourself...

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by Ebonheart

Yeah, it's more like 4 days of Early Access for a good chunk of people, including myself.

 

Let me outline the problem with this method of early entry.

Everyone ordered the same product (excluding the CO) and payed the same amount of money for that product.

However, if you ordered it early you are getting more for your money, whilst those who ordered later are recieving less for their money.

This by itself is the only legitimate reason to be upset.

 

The only way in which players should be selectively preferred is if they payed more money (ex. Collector Edition).

The only means by which they have maintained their integrity is by the vague promisary wording ("up to 5 days") on the item info.

 

It would have been a much better marketing idea (and process of preferential selection) to split the early access into three groups.

 

13th = Those with a CO ($149?)

14th = Those with the Digital Deluxe Edition ($79?)

15th = Those with the Regular Edition ($59?)

 

In fact, I am quite amazed they didn't take this approach in order to maximize the amount of digital sales.

So suddenly after all this time, the concept of "First come, first served" is no longer viable and fair?  Really?

"First come, first served" is viable and fair in many situations.

However, this is neither a food line nor a restaurant.

Everyone purchased the same product with the same information regarding what they would recieve.

"Up to 5 days"

Now however, it is obvious that whilst everyone payed the same amounts (relatively) some individuals are getting more for their money, whilst others are getting less.

Yeah, it's more like 4 days of Early Access for a good chunk of people, including myself.

Let me outline the problem with this method of early entry.

Everyone ordered the same products (CO, DDE, or RE), and each payed the same amount of money for each of those particular products. (Some minor variation depending on region or seller perhaps)

However, if you ordered it early you are getting more for your money, whilst those who ordered later are recieving less for their money.

This by itself is the only legitimate reason to be upset.

The only way in which players should be selectively preferred is if they payed more money (ex. Collector Edition).

The only means by which they have maintained their integrity is by the vague promisary wording ("up to 5 days") on the item info.

It would have been a much better marketing idea (and process of preferential selection) to split the early access into three groups.

13th = Those with a CO ($149?)

14th = Those with the Digital Deluxe Edition ($79?)

15th = Those with the Regular Edition ($59?)

In fact, I am quite amazed they didn't take this approach in order to maximize the amount of digital sales.

Originally posted by Infeareal

It is very simple. It is first come, first served. No one is more special than anyone else (unless we are talking little school bus speshul). Race, creed, age, color, job, guild(lol),etc get you no special treatment or are you discriminated against. One simple rule. First come, First served.

This isn't a food line, it's an MMO.

First come - first serve should only be applicable if you payed more money (ex. Collectors Edition).

I'm honesly not that disappointed, but some people are getting more for their money (a minor amount in the big picture), whilst those who payed the same amount (at a later date) are getting the shaft with regards to early access.

I just finished all of my finals today and was hoping to get an invite, at least before the 15th.

Looks like I don't get in until Friday.

Sure feels nice being a third class purchaser...

Originally posted by Uronksur

Originally posted by Ebonheart

Can anyone subscribe yet? Or does that not unlock on the main website until later in the day?

I keep getting an error message.

The game isn't even out yet. Game access doesn't start for hours yet. Why are you even trying to subscribe?

The game launcher kept telling me I needed to subscribe.

I figured I would look into it.

Must be the default response because of the server status & it not recognizing me as early access yet.

Can anyone subscribe yet? Or does that not unlock on the main website until later in the day?

I keep getting an error message.

I just noticed that there were two code redemptions I needed to put in on my account page.

I hope this doesn't screw up my early access eligibility, lol.

Nevermind, I was looking at something wrong.

Originally posted by SuperXero89

...the defining feature of Sith lightsabers was the use of Synthetic lightsaber crystals, as opposed to the Adegan and Ilum crystals favored by the Jedi. Almost all synthetic crystals used by the Sith featured a red coloration, as a result of the forging process used to create them, though adjustments to this process and manipulations through the Force did result in crystals of different colors...

 

The red coloration was also a result of the forging process, though it too came to become a tradition. The aggressive crimson hue served to differentiate the Sith from their sworn enemies; the Jedi, who typically utilized softer colors, commonly blue or green...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_lightsaber

Here is the lore from page 9 for reference + some more from the article, if anyone else figures they can justify the use of red sabers by irrelevant outlyers in the lore.

Originally, Sith Lords utilized synthetic crystals due to their lack of access to the traditional sites where crystals were harvested, as these were frequented by the Jedi Order. Eventually, the use of these synth-crystals became a tradition amongst the Sith, who believed the creation of a crystal suited to one's own needs was a display of strength over the Jedi, who relied on the "untamed wilds of space" to provide.

The red coloration was also a result of the forging process, though it too came to become a tradition. The aggressive crimson hue served to differentiate the Sith from their sworn enemies; the Jedi, who typically utilized softer colors, commonly blue or green. However, the bloodshine blades were not universal to all Sith, with notables such as Exar Kun and Darth Vader continuing to favor their blue Jedi lightsabers after defecting. However, Kun was likely unaware of the custom, and Vader replaced his Jedi weapon with a red-bladed Sith saber soon afterwards. Ultimately, Sith who wielded colors other than red were usually looking to disguise their dark affiliations. In fact, Palpatine was of the opinion that the Sith Lords had outgrown the use of lightsabers, and only continued to use them to humiliate the Jedi.

Originally posted by AzurePrower

 

---

Originally posted by Ebonheart
 

Not from the same time period.
Therefore using it in an argument in favor of red sabers in this game (and time period) is useless.
I never said she didn't use a red one, I stated that it appears orange in the pictures (all except one).
 
On the other hand, If you scrolled down on the wookieepedia page you would find several pictures of her using a blue saber.
Additionally you would find this statement following the one you posted.
"Following the return of the Sith and the rising tensions in the Galactic Senate, Master Gallia replaced the red crystal in her saber's hilt with a traditional blue crystal, one associated with the Jedi Guardians."
Why not consider or post that? Oh right, it doesn't support your argument.

---

 

You are mincing your words to justify your own argument. Also, yes. She changed the color of her blade later on. Doesn't disprove that she used red.

I have given my proof of lightside Jedi wielding red and darkside Sith wielding blue.

Now it's your turn. Provide me with evidence supporting why lightside Sith are not allowed to wield red and darkside Jedi are not allowed to wield blue/green.

I am not mincing my words, I am stating the facts.

The individuals you are using as "evidence" are not from the same time period and were not subject to the same traditions and strict cultural norms as mentioned a few pages ago with reference to why Sith initially used and continue to use red lightsabers when this game takes place. (vice versa for Jedi)

Is it possible for a Sith to use a non-red saber? Sure

Do they? No

Is it possible for a Jedi to kill children? Sure

Do they? No

Why? Tradition, Culture, Norms, Etc.

The restricted use of saber color by Bioware is justified by the tradition of the period, among other things.

Posting evidence of individuals which are not part of that period, whom occasionally use other saber colors, are not justifications for why you should be able to weild whatever color saber you would like without any possible consequence, whether cultural or non-cultural, during the period of the Cold War in which the game takes place.

Originally posted by AzurePrower

 

---

Originally posted by Ebonheart

---

Originally posted by AzurePrower
 

---

Originally posted by Ebonheart

---

Originally posted by AzurePrower
This topic has been done to death.
Personally. All Sith should be able to use red. All Jedi/Republic should be able to use blue/green. If you're a Dark Jedi or a Light Sith, you should be able to use the other faction's crystal at your choosing.
Don't forget, the color crystals also count for blasters, not just lightsabers.

To conclude. I'll post a bunch of canon pictures depicting Sith wielding lightsabers other than red and Jedi wielding red lightsabers.

 
Luke Skywalker also has been mentioned to dual wield lightsabers with a short red lightsaber being his off hand.
Restricting colors to alignment is silly.

---

Those pictures would be relevant, except for the fact that they are from a completely different time period in Star Wars history.
Not to mention a few of those "red" sabers are actually orange.

---

 
How so? Those pictures range from Exar Kun (before TOR), to the clone wars with Adi Gallia (after TOR) and beyond with Luke, Leia, Mara Jade and Palpatine (New Republic Era).
There was also a planet full of Jedi wielding red lightsabers before the planet exploded to a super nova.
There are also plenty of Dark-side Jedi known to wield blue as well as red.

---

 
The only picture which is slightly applicable is the Exar Kun one, however, it is still not from the exact time period in which this game takes place.
The majority of the other pictures are still of orange sabers.

---

 

You don't know your Star Wars lore.

 

 

---

She originally chose an unusual color lightsaber crystal to power her blade, a red stone that had strong association with the Dark Lords of the Sith

---

 

Not from the same time period.

Therefore using it in an argument in favor of red sabers in this game (and time period) is useless.

I never said she didn't use a red one, I stated that it appears orange in the pictures (all except one).

On the other hand, If you scrolled down on the wookieepedia page you would find several pictures of her using a blue saber.

Additionally you would find this statement following the one you posted.

"Following the return of the Sith and the rising tensions in the Galactic Senate, Master Gallia replaced the red crystal in her saber's hilt with a traditional blue crystal, one associated with the Jedi Guardians."

Why not consider or post that? Oh right, it doesn't support your argument.

Originally posted by AzurePrower

 

---

Originally posted by Ebonheart

---

Originally posted by AzurePrower
This topic has been done to death.
Personally. All Sith should be able to use red. All Jedi/Republic should be able to use blue/green. If you're a Dark Jedi or a Light Sith, you should be able to use the other faction's crystal at your choosing.
Don't forget, the color crystals also count for blasters, not just lightsabers.

To conclude. I'll post a bunch of canon pictures depicting Sith wielding lightsabers other than red and Jedi wielding red lightsabers.

 
Luke Skywalker also has been mentioned to dual wield lightsabers with a short red lightsaber being his off hand.
Restricting colors to alignment is silly.

---

Those pictures would be relevant, except for the fact that they are from a completely different time period in Star Wars history.
Not to mention a few of those "red" sabers are actually orange.

---

 

How so? Those pictures range from Exar Kun (before TOR), to the clone wars with Adi Gallia (after TOR) and beyond with Luke, Leia, Mara Jade and Palpatine (New Republic Era).

There was also a planet full of Jedi wielding red lightsabers before the planet exploded to a super nova.

There are also plenty of Dark-side Jedi known to wield blue as well as red.

The only picture which is slightly applicable is the Exar Kun one, however, it is still not from the exact time period in which this game takes place.

The majority of the other pictures are still of orange sabers.

Originally posted by AzurePrower

This topic has been done to death.

Personally. All Sith should be able to use red. All Jedi/Republic should be able to use blue/green. If you're a Dark Jedi or a Light Sith, you should be able to use the other faction's crystal at your choosing.

Don't forget, the color crystals also count for blasters, not just lightsabers.

To conclude. I'll post a bunch of canon pictures depicting Sith wielding lightsabers other than red and Jedi wielding red lightsabers.

 

Luke Skywalker also has been mentioned to dual wield lightsabers with a short red lightsaber being his off hand.

Restricting colors to alignment is silly.

Those pictures would be relevant, except for the fact that they are from a completely different time period in Star Wars history.

Not to mention a few of those "red" sabers are actually orange.

While the number of guilds registered per faction prior to launch doesn't neccessarily mean there will be more players overall for that faction, I have a feeling the Empire will be overpopulated nonetheless.

I've been considering playing an Imperial Agent ever since they announced the classes.

I suppose I could just play a Jedi Knight or Smuggler instead, being an evil asshole who kills everyone and sacrifices everything in the name of the Empire might get old after a while.