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All Posts by elohssa

All Posts by elohssa

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38 posts found
Originally posted by Bladestrom
The funny thing is when wow dies (I suggest in 10 years). What the hell are those players going to think looking back, they spent 17 years in 1 game at the cost of all other game experiences. I predict real life psychological problems,mark my words.

You are delusional sir.

 

 

Originally posted by tintilinic
Originally posted by Wraithone

A relative handful of people. EVE is one of the few exceptions to the steady decline rule, that plagues most MMO's. I was in the game for almost six years. I watched as CCP (kicking and screaming) was forced to evolve Concord into what it is today, and also change the high sec ROE.

Why? Self interest (to protect their business model).  It turns out that there are many more CareBears, than PvP types, and their money is green... ^^  Without the CareBear population, EVE would not be *nearly* as popular, which has wide spread implications for what resources CCP has to apply to their beloved PvP.

I know the PvP types don't want to hear that, but thats the hard cold reality of the current market demographics.

exactly.

Thats what kept WoW and EvE on top - identifiying and reacting (adapting) to conditions on the market. To be blunt - "casualizing and dumbifiying" their games for years.

One thing i laught at is claim WoW was hard at launch. I still remember clearly why many people left L2 for WoW - it was waaaaaay easier and more casual than L2 back then (same thing happened to other "old school" MMOs too). And Blizzard confirmed that >5% of playerbase stuck with raid progression in vanilla and thats why they change it (dumb it down) from expansion to expansion. When they tried to make it harder their numbers drop rapidly.

Thats the reality of current market for AAA MMOs - casual and careberish. I cant really fathom how some people are so stuck in the past and believe otherwise.

Best exapmple is Rift, game that boasted "hardcore endgame" and delivered "hardcore endgame". How long it took them to dumb down that endgame again? Not very long, people were quitting all over because there was nothing for casual in endgame. And now its doing fine, but anywhere near WoW ballpark numbers? Nope.

You couldn't be any more wrong.  All the new MMOs copy the current day causla carebear wow.  Yet at the same time they don't offer new content or challenging raid content.  Thus they fail hard.

Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by sapphen

What kind of game are you wanting that WoW would be a better measurement of the playerbase than an actual Elder Scrolls game?

Good ones? Whether you detest the route Wow has taken, to say its a bad game would be epically stupid on your part.

I didn't say it was a bad game, only that TES should be a more suitable measurement than WoW.  ESO may be a MMO but it is also a TES game.  WoW doesn't even have a proper FPV.

 

I'll say it, if you're too scared to speak the truth. WoW is outright a bad game. Poorly designed and only kept alive through brand name and momentum. I will defend that.

You are dead wrong.

Originally posted by azzamasi

5.

Tons and Tons of players have quit WoW, or would easily quit wow give a real alternative.  None exist on the market atm.  No game has truly copied WoW's model for success. Including start off with a difficult game whilst adding new raid content over time, and making the game more openly avaialble to casual gamers.

 

You can't be freaking serious can you?  Can you say EVERY single Triple-A MMO released in the last 7 years has been an almsot identical WoW clone?

 

LOL I laugh at your assessment!

No, they have been failed WoW clones.  They are all faceroll easy from the very start, and many have no end game to speak of.

Originally posted by tintilinic

1. Forced socializing is all you talk about

2. No thats not anti-social

3. Its plain English. Concepts that you have to play 10 hours/day to get anywhere, lack of almost any content hidded behind extreme idiotic grinds. One thing i love is when people say "EQ filtered all those "not worthy" to play!". Well it filtered out too well, theres was pretty much noone playing when alternatives started to pop up. Just as any hardcore MMO out there.

4. WoW is still strong because it changed over the years, not because its same vanilla WoW

5. They all copied WoW model but it never worked for anything besides WoW, its pretty basic: those who want WoW play WoW

6. If PvP is niche, raiding (hardcore raiding) is ultra niche, its costly to make for almost no return, this is not 2000 when that was a novelty, its 2013 and most people now see that devs only were fooling around with them, those games werent designed for fun but for milking 15/month in very transparent way.

7. Great, it will be fun to watch, i suggest you start your own project then and get AAA funding. Good luck!

 

1. 

I have never ever heard of that phrase before.  Google turns up diddly as well.  Are you saying this because I am suggesting that minimal use of chat is the bare minimum of social interaction in game?

2.

Anti social behaviour is any sort of behaviour that goes against the norms that society has placed. Many different types of extreme anti social behaviours have been documented and observed including aggression to those around them, cruelty, violence, theft, and vandalism. Other lesser traits that could be considered antisocial are noncompliance, lying, manipulation, and other activities such as drug and alcohol abuse.

So yes, within the context of the game it fits fine.

3.

Casual tears are delicious, lol.  Raids are essential part of GOOD MMOs. 

4,

WoW did change with the times, but it would have never made it if it hadn't started off strong like it did.

5.

Tons and Tons of players have quit WoW, or would easily quit wow give a real alternative.  None exist on the market atm.  No game has truly copied WoW's model for success. Including start off with a difficult game whilst adding new raid content over time, and making the game more openly avaialble to casual gamers.

6.

Wrong.  If this was true then WoW wouldn't be making BILLIONS every year.  I have had way more fun raiding then doing anything else.  $15 a month is nothing for continual content, I don't regret one dime of the money I spent.  I know many others who feel the exact same way.

7.

I am not starting with my own project.  I am spamming the TESO official forums.  Either they will listen to us raiders, or the game releas as is and it will flop just like all the other failed mmos that cater to casuals.

More choices are not always better...

 

The Paradox of Choice - Why More Is Less is a 2004 book by American psychologist Barry Schwartz. In the book, Schwartz argues that eliminating comsumer choices can greatly reduce anxiety for shoppers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice:_Why_More_Is_Less

 

Primate example, Path of Exile 

PS:  Don't forget to scan the whole thing.  Hold left mouse button down and move around like you would on a map.

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree

 

 

Just look at that cluster ****.   How can anyone say that looks like good design or appealing?

Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by sapphen

I don't think WoW would be a good example because you can't see your hand/weapons.  I respect you feel it isn't a big deal but to me personally, it makes a huge difference.  57% of players who only use FPV in Skyrim, 88% adding people who use both, those are not a small minority.

WoW is a much better judge because its a better measurement of the playerbase. None of those polls are even semi close to reasonable because they are not representative of the playerbase.

What kind of game are you wanting that WoW would be a better measurement of the playerbase than an actual Elder Scrolls game?

 

Even if you use past events to predict future outcomes, it is not logically reconized as truth.  I could predict that many people would use FPV just because they like the challenge and immersion but that doesn't mean I would be correct.

Of course that prediction would not follow because the playerbase has shown it to be wildly inaccurate. There is a reason why people will change their playstyle and grind rep for 20 hours for a specific reward than spend that same 20 hours running dungeons for something similar. The path of least resistance is a viable trend, with the number actively breaking it being very few.

There is no path of least resistence here, it's having about having a slight view advantage, FPV is not even a path.  If your assessment was true then everyone would play Skyrim in third person view.

WOW = mmo

ESO = mmo

Skyrim=/= MMO

 

The polls I showed earlier have very small sample sizes, so the uncertainty is high, but it shows about half the skyrim playerbase doen't exlusively use FPV.  That means they will almost certainly use 3rd person view when switching to an mmo.  After even more see that its a huge advantage in 3rd person, then even more will follow.  The few hardcore ES fans who insist on 1st person will likely quit in a few months when they run out of solo PvE content, especially considering raids and pvp are extremely unfavorable to this view.

 

At launch few will play 1st person exlclusively. 

After a few months, almost no one will be using it.

 

[mod edit]
Originally posted by Melroc
Originally posted by elohssa
Originally posted by akkedis86
Originally posted by Nitth

 


Originally posted by BigHatLogan
MMORPGs only make sense if PVP is involved.

 

...

Close minded much?

I don't understand how you can prefer the predictable nature of raids to pvp, another opponent, acting unpredictably, providing an actual challenge, and the satisfaction of ganking noobs, yeah I said it :D. 

Maybe you suck at pvp?

 

I love when you casuals talk about how easy raids are, yet at the same time you repeatedly demonstrate your inability to complete said 'predictable' encounters...

Thats because they haven't taken the time to look up what to do or they're not in a guild that just lays it out for them. With a few general warnings and guidelines, yes, raiding is easy. Get over yourself.

I have raided with top guilds, harcore casual guilds, and casual guilds.  The difference is night and day from the top to the bottom.  Its not a matter of just get out of x or y, but get out of x or y while doing a b and c. 

I have easily doubled the dps of other members of my casual guild. 

 

Maintianing a perfect prirotiy system while dodging all incoming damage takes an immense amount of skill, and most players aren't up to that sort of challenge.  That's why only about 2% actually complete heroic dungeons when they are relevant.  Sure any scrub can do them months after the xpac and they have been nerfed to oblivion, and you outgear them.  I think you are confusing that with actual end game progression raiding.

I have already proven to you that you can use past events to predict futurue events.  This is the basis of all human knowledge.  Cause and Effect. 

 

Apparently you disagree with this somehow though....so I went to get you some numbers, and this is what I got.  A horde of people crying because they were stuck in first person view.  I think that is very telling, no.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=first+person+view+warcraft&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

 

 

Here is a poll showing that only 57% of players perfer FPV all the time,

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.328614-Poll-First-or-Third-person-view-in-Skyrim?page=4

 

Here is another with only 40%

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1653017

 

Here is another at 43%

http://www.ps3trophies.org/forum/elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/139838-what-do-you-prefer-first-person-third-person-3.html

 

Originally posted by sapphen

Yes, small advantage.  When in FPV you look around a lot, I know where enemies are even if I don't see them.  You'd be surprised at the difference but again most MMOs that have a proper FPV use it primarily.  I had no problems in Darkfall with PvP, I have no problem in FPS in PVP or groups (even ones that have melee systems).

Personally I do not think there is a huge disavantage in FPV. 

WTF is a proper FPV?  The picture of your hands floating around?  That has no bearing on gameplay...

 

 

Originally posted by sapphen

The degree of the advantage is personal opinion.  You can not claim that because TPV has an advantage that everyone will use it.

Money talks and it just said add FPV.  I don't know if it was the investors but I'd love to have a word with them as well.

http://www.theskepticsguide.org/resources/logicalfallacies.aspx here, look it up yourself.

I already explained why they added it.  To appeal to a huge audience.  It has nothing to do with players using it.

You just keep spouting the same garbage.  How about telling me which logical fallacy we are guilty of?

The link, and the fact you had to look up the definition before clearly indicates to me that you don't know anything about philosophy and logical reasoning.

 

You completely dismissed my trend comment also...

Trend following is an investment strategy based on the technical analysis of market prices.

 

Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by elohssa
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by sapphen

What makes you think everyone considers TPV the "path of least resistence" ~ What if they have plans to make FPV-only Cyrodiil Campaigns?  Some people may consider FPV more fun than TPV.  Nonetheless it's still an assumption and using a phrase like "small minority" is illogical.  There was a large enough group that asked for FPV, thereforth it is added into the game.

Out of curiosity were you using "illogical" ironically? Cause if not you should check the definition cause yeah...

Anyway, even with ignoring the "what if" you decided to toss in there the number of times experiments like you propose have actually been wildly popular are extremely few and far between. Even then they require a non deviance from the ruleset. Things like the perma death server for Aoc for example. The reason they won't do things like that is because fov matters in terms of balance. They will not rebalance 400+ abilities for that sort of pvp experience. Fov matters.

It is a logical fallacy to say people who are for FPV are in the minority.  You are dismissing someone's view as irrelevant and therefore it is illogical.

Why would they have to rebalance abilities for that, it doesn't make sense.

That is not a logical fallacy. 

Past trends can easily be used to predict future trends.  Past trends clearly show us players take the path of least resistance, and they won't use the FPV.

If you have an opposing opinion, but offer no evidence, then your opinion can be rightfully dismissed.

Logical Fallacy - a fallacy in logical argumentation
Fallacy - a misconception resulting from incorrect reasoning

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/logical+fallacy

You are assuming that not many people will play in FPV because TPV has a sight advantage.  I rebute by saying we do not know the minority.  People may play TPV in PvP or dungeons but there will be many people who uses FPV.

If you are using past trends to predict future ones, then wouldn't Skyrim and Oblivion be proof that many people play in FPV (or at least a little of both).  I do not accept that TPV is the path of least resistance, it does have a sight advantage but there are many fine attributes of FPV.

I am not claiming that FPV is in the majority, but saying we simply do not know.  You offer no evidence otherwise so I rightfully dismiss you.

 

Actually there is a buttload of reasons I gave earlier, but the most prevalent one is that it is a HUGE advantage.  Not a slight advantage, a HUGE advantage.

 

So you actually believe that past events have no bearing on future events, and we can't use past events to predict furture events?   I think investors would like to have a word with you about that....

Thats almost like saying cause and effect don't exist.

 

This is not a logical fallacy.  Which logical fallacy does this apply to exactly?

Originally posted by Arglebargle

Having race locked alliances is a developer conveniance, not some absolute model of historical accuracy.  In WWII for example, there were hundreds of thousands of crossovers:  Russians fighting for the Germans, Italians and Germans in the American camp,  pro axis and pro allied French, etc.  Not even mentioning the high profile 'turncoats'.  You can find this throughout history.   Racial locking is actualy far more unbelievable, to my view.

 

Me, I don't care about the three factions at all.  The PVP is mostly irrelevant.  But as an example, there are four possible players (and buyers) of ESO in my household, each with fairly strong preferences for the race of their characters.   It's a smart thing for the game if we can play together.  The game's design makes that more difficult to do.  If getting rid of that difficulty increases revenue for Zenimax, they seriously need to consider it.  

Sure that happened, but those people were by far the minority.  If its a complete toss up what faction you are alligned with, then that won't be the case. 

I don't know why groups of friends couldn't just compromise on this issue, and pick a race they like on that faction. 

Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by sapphen

What makes you think everyone considers TPV the "path of least resistence" ~ What if they have plans to make FPV-only Cyrodiil Campaigns?  Some people may consider FPV more fun than TPV.  Nonetheless it's still an assumption and using a phrase like "small minority" is illogical.  There was a large enough group that asked for FPV, thereforth it is added into the game.

Out of curiosity were you using "illogical" ironically? Cause if not you should check the definition cause yeah...

Anyway, even with ignoring the "what if" you decided to toss in there the number of times experiments like you propose have actually been wildly popular are extremely few and far between. Even then they require a non deviance from the ruleset. Things like the perma death server for Aoc for example. The reason they won't do things like that is because fov matters in terms of balance. They will not rebalance 400+ abilities for that sort of pvp experience. Fov matters.

It is a logical fallacy to say people who are for FPV are in the minority.  You are dismissing someone's view as irrelevant and therefore it is illogical.

Why would they have to rebalance abilities for that, it doesn't make sense.

That is not a logical fallacy. 

Past trends can easily be used to predict future trends.  Past trends clearly show us players take the path of least resistance, and they won't use the FPV.

If you have an opposing opinion, but offer no evidence, then your opinion can be rightfully dismissed.

 

Originally posted by Arglebargle

With any big MMO, you are seeing the fossilized thought of 4-5 years previous.  The particular times' percieved wisdom of what would do well in that gaming arena.  I am pretty sure that the implementation of RvRvR was pitched as something to keep people attached to the game at cap.   It doesn't help my interest, as I am more oriented towards position 2, not really caring much about internet pvp stuff.  Much more interested in ES and exploring.  So, the whole implementation of the game's pvp has little draw for me. 

 

I have issues with the meta game decision of locked down racial factions.  That ship has sailed though.  Very hard to redo at this point in the game.   But I imagine if they knew then what they are finding out now, they'd have done it quite differently.  I suspect that they are getting a load of feedback that is unhappy with their set up of things.  And unhappy players are not paying players.  The simplest doable solution, imo, would be to keep the present factions and realm situations, but allow players of any race to join whichever of the three factions they wish.   It's not like you can't find scads of historical situations just like that.  It keeps the basic structure, allows the folks who have serious racial preferences to play with their friends, ameliorates  some discontent. 

 

And I can 100% guarantee you that you will find things like dunmer in breton lands in the PVE  (or whatever combo you want to substitute).   The NPCs will be racially diverse, but for some reason the players just can't be.  

 

What is this locked racial system complaint all about exactly?  You want 3 factions, but you want them to be mixed race?

In the real world race often dictates alliances and foes.  Kids grow up with their parents, and their parents allies and enemies become their allies and enemies.  So, how would this random faction thing make any sense? 

Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by elohssa
Originally posted by Iselin

So that's a fair trade off in your mind? Turning a game that was already funky and cartoonish to begin with into a parody of itself because that provides more choice and attracts more people? WOW is just a lobby now where people go off in their own separate (mostly solo or quick little PUGs with starangers) directions to do the tiny little chunk of it that they like. Sounds like you're saying that's the way to do MMOs. By that logic Dancing with the Stars should be the model for future TV series.

To me there's a difference between quality and popularity. The Wire is quality. Dancing with the Stars is popular. The Secret World is quality. WOW is popular.

"Freedom of Choice" at all costs is a piss poor way to develop an MMO...unless of course, all you care about is the $$. Then popular and "something for everyone" is most definitely the way to go.

Vision, focus and artistic integrity is how you get quality. Pandering to the masses is how you get popularity.

 

I am sorry, but did you just say that the Tthe Secret World is good?

wow....I mean, wow!

I lost my wallet once, and that was a wiser expenditure than when I bought TSW.

 

Sales are the best way to determine whether a game is good or not.  Anything else is just subjective opinions.

 So...who's on Dancing with the Stars this week?

 

Haha, hell if I know.  I don't watch that crap.  That was a good one though.

 

Personally, I hate TSW.   They tried to do some cool stuff, but the execution is very poor.

 

The engine runs like crap.  Crysis 3 on Ultra runs better on my computer than TSW on ultra.  It bog down for absolutely no reason, and then I go into an area with a lot of conflict and it runs perfectly smoothe.   There are numerous bugs still in the game.  Its been out 6 months and the game feels like it should still be in closed beta. 

 

I don't like the questing.  You get one main quest and you often have to run from one side of the map  to the other, and then back to turn it in.  Many quests include puzzles, but they require the use of the in game browser and real life research to figure out.  Personally, I find this completely breaks immersion.  I can see how it could be seen as enjoyable at first, but after awhile it gets old and you just google the walkthrough and get the solution.

 

It only takes a couple weeks to get Quality 10 gear, and there is absolutely no end game content at all.  Leveling content is completely soloable.  There is no need to ever talk to someone else while questing, not that you will likely see many people anyways.  The story and voice acting is rather poor imo.  None of the NPCs really feel as if they have a character, just the same old tired narrative. 

 

Finally, the pvp is terribly balanced.  Almost everyone runs around with the same 2 builds, and everything else isn't really viable.  You die almost instantly in PvP.  It honestly feels like a FPS, except they don't have to aim.    They are all headshots!   It feels like a zerg.  Low level characters are put in warzones (PvP) with people decked in the top gear in the game.  There is a buffer system in place to buff lower geared players, but it doesn't work at all.  There are only 3 warzones, and the most popular is Stonehenge.  In stonehenge everyone spawns together in a small map, so you spawn right beside your enemy.  Whats worse is that this pvp has 3 factions, thus you are spawning beside 2 enermy factions simulatneiously.   Thus you are outnumbered two to 1.  Furthermore, the game is designed around turtling in a corner with movable 'flags'.  Thus regrouping is quite problematic.

This is honestly the worst PvP I have ever seen in any MMO, and seeing as there is no end game PvE content this is the only thing to do.

 

If I was to rate this game on what it tried to accomplish then I can see giving it like a 7/10.  But rating it for what it actually did accomplish and it would seriously be like a 3/10.

 

Originally posted by Iselin

So that's a fair trade off in your mind? Turning a game that was already funky and cartoonish to begin with into a parody of itself because that provides more choice and attracts more people? WOW is just a lobby now where people go off in their own separate (mostly solo or quick little PUGs with starangers) directions to do the tiny little chunk of it that they like. Sounds like you're saying that's the way to do MMOs. By that logic Dancing with the Stars should be the model for future TV series.

To me there's a difference between quality and popularity. The Wire is quality. Dancing with the Stars is popular. The Secret World is quality. WOW is popular.

"Freedom of Choice" at all costs is a piss poor way to develop an MMO...unless of course, all you care about is the $$. Then popular and "something for everyone" is most definitely the way to go.

Vision, focus and artistic integrity is how you get quality. Pandering to the masses is how you get popularity.

 

I am sorry, but did you just say that the Tthe Secret World is good?

wow....I mean, wow!

I lost my wallet once, and that was a wiser expenditure than when I bought TSW.

 

Sales are the best way to determine whether a game is good or not.  Anything else is just subjective opinions.

Originally posted by sapphen

None of this supports that FPV players are in the minority.  Where are the numbers, you only listed personal assumptions.  The devs put it in because of the feedback from PLAYERS/TESTERS (not 'es fans'), we do not know how many asked for it.  It is illogical to assume that they changed their game for a 'few' people.

Of course they do.....  You are just stomping your feet and holding your breath while screaming it isn't so.  Any unbiased person can look at the above data and say that most won't use it.   And your sole argument to prove me wrong is to demand info that you damn well know doesn't exist.  Past trrends do exist however, and we can easily conclude from them that what I said was true.

 

I didn't say a few people.  Skyrim sold like 15 million copies on PC and Console total.  That is a huge audience of people you want to please.  However, only a small portion of them will play ESO, and only a portion of those will ever use the single player view, and only an extremely small portion will continue to use said view as it is drastically inferior to 3rd person, and only a small portion of those players will continue playing beyond the first few months.

 

 

Also this, well said,

Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by sapphen

None of this supports that FPV players are in the minority.  Where are the numbers, you only listed personal assumptions.  The devs put it in because of the feedback from PLAYERS/TESTERS (not 'es fans'), we do not know how many asked for it.  It is illogical to assume that they changed their game for a 'few' people.

Sure it does. Players almost in their entirety play in the path of least resistence, especially when the the difference between what is considered "fun" and what is considered "not fun" is large. Direct numbers do not need to be given or even found if the previous trends are shown to be true. It is not hard to draw the conclusion.

You call us insane yet you think a company is going to alter a multimillion dollar project to please a 'few' people.

It happens all the time thanks to those who hold the purse strings having more power than the actual developers. You see it all the time with games that get "features" that are obviously tacked on. Every amazing single player shooter that has had multiplayer tacked on in the last 5 years for example. Beyond that, look at the sheer amount of work that goes into making the demo builds for the convention circuit? Some studios go so far as splitting off 10-15 people to form their own team just to make builds to showcase. Think of the sheer amounts of money that alone entails for a little bit of marketing!

Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by elohssa

...and they know damn well that only a very small minority will ever use it extensively.

You see, I have a seriously problem with that phrase.  You have NO IDEA how many people would be using it.  Do you really think a multimillion dollar project will be altered because a "few" people wanted FPV?  You are not privy to their statistics but I can guarantee it was A LOT MORE than just a few people. Forum users like us are the minority, we do not know what the silent majority wants.


Actually I do for numerous reasons.

 

1stPV is drastically inferior to 3rdPV in an MMO for PvE, and especially in PvP.

Most people use what works fist, and what is flavor second.

The devs didn't have it in the game originally, thus they considered it to be an unimportant feature that would spacely be used.

In an interview the devs said that it was inferior view for an MMO. 

The devs only put it in the game because of feedback from ES fans.  Also said in the same interview.

 

Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by jtcgs

So yes, reducing the choice's available is, in every way, foolish and limting.

I agree with this, moreso because it's an Elder Scrolls game.  If they would've made up an IP, locked the races into factions and I wouldn't have cared the least bit.

Limiting players choice such as factions is quite foolish considering the franchise they are trying to represent.  It is not needed, players would still have faction pride (maybe even more) if they was able to choose their own factions.

You guys are INSANE!

 

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Sentnl
I hope half you realise that you're speaking nonsense...

 

WoW came from the warcraft series, were they alike!? I couldn't build any barracks...

Warhammer came from a miniature game, I couldn't roll any physical dice, oh my god!

Swtor came from a fictional story, believe it or not... etc.

THIS IS NOT THE SINGLE PLAYER GAME YOU ARE LOOKING FOR.

Let it be ffs, let it become it's own entity, dont disturb it. If you're lucky enough to also get a beta key, you can come help send feedback on its great features.



Some change will occur. That is inevitable. Nobody will be The Nerevarine or Dohvakiin. Not one of *my* expectations.

 

Your examples were nothing but petulant flame-bait. You took the most absurd things you could think of and tried to compare them to legitimate concerns. Are you really that stupid to believe what you wrote has any validity?

 

He is 100% correct.  The vocal ES fans are competely delusional in their expectations.   Despite the fact they are being catered to infinitely more than SW or WC were. 

FFS they are creating a First person view JUST for these people, and they know damn well that only a very small minority will ever use it extensively.

Originally posted by tintilinic
Originally posted by elohssa
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by elohssa

Buffing random peple =/= socializing at any level

Crafting is solo =/= socializing at any level

Helping random peple with solo content =/= socializing at any level

Random chat in general to random people  is barely socializing.  This is little better than buying things on the AH.  Thats how low the bar you just set is.  If this is the only socializing you experience in an mmo, then you are a loner.

 

How in the heck is fast paced combat stopping socilizaing?  You can always stop between mobs and chat if you want. Nothing is stopping that.  Unless you want to stop and chat in the middle of a fight, in which case you are asking them to make the game so stupidly easy that half the people can chat instead of play the game.

 

If this is your vision of an MMO, then its honestly quite pathetic, and a sure fired recipe for failure.

 

 

Chat between mobs?? You are new to modern MMO's aren't you? ^^  No time to stop! Go! Go! Go!... ^^ 

The social aspect has to my experience been rather limited for years now.  But thats ok, I'm not in these games for social interactions. Thats what my family and RL friends are for.  I especially dislike vent, because so few people have any concept of communications discipline.  Nor much discipline in general, for that matter.

 

New to modern MMOs?  If they are modern, then by definition everyone is new to them.... So yah, what does this mean?

 

What is it you guys want?  A fight so easy you can have tea and crumpets in the middle, as you talk about the weather in chat?  Maybe pretend you are troll, and do some lame ass role playing?

 

No social spects in recent mmos.  Well of course there isn't, you are a casual, and you play casual mmos.  Casual mmos don't require co-op as they are faceroll easy, thus you aren't required to actually socialize with other players.  Challenging encounters require you to talk to other players.

 

Communication discipline?!  What i s that?  If you get in vent with douchebags, then you leave.  Its that simple.  FInd a new mature guild. 

see, thats where you fail completely: you cannot discern what is "social" and what is "anti-social"

theres no such thing as "forced socializing". Theres already a term for that: anti-social. Its the most asburd concept people like you bring up all the time.

Bringing old concepts back to life will not happen. Why? because those died for a reason.

You know why all WoW clones fail? They bring nothing new in the core to the table. Staleness kills them, not absence of dead concepts (those would actually only speed up the process)

Theres no AAA MMO that will cater to you. The sooner you make peace with that, the sooner your games of choice will be more in line with your needs.

 

Who in the heck said 'forced socializing'?  Just you...

I know what anti-social means, thanks.  It has nothing to do with forced sociliazing.  Anti-social behavior is a mental disorder in which people withdraw themselves from contact and communication with other people. 

What old concepts?  Speak english, please.  I am guessing you mean raiding, but its completely unclear.

They failed because they catered to the masses, aka casuals, who don't know what they want.  They think they want a mickey mouse faceroll mmo, and every dev has oblidged and delievered just that thus far.  However, after a few months the masses quit because they get bored, and the game fails.   Any unbias source will tell you the same thing. 

No one has even come close to copying the model WoW used for success and making a true wow clone.  If they had, then that game would be sitting pretty in 2nd place with a healthy subs base.  ESO has the chance to do this, but only if they don't cater to the casuals again.

PvP in an MMO Is a niche market. 

You know what you are right.  The true MMO fans are going to have to make a stand.   We are just gonna have to nudge the devs in the right direction!  I am going to try to make sure this happens, and I am going to get everyone I can to spam the official forums with this issue constantly to ensure they get the message.

Thx for the idea.

 

Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by elohssa

Buffing random peple =/= socializing at any level

Crafting is solo =/= socializing at any level

Helping random peple with solo content =/= socializing at any level

Random chat in general to random people  is barely socializing.  This is little better than buying things on the AH.  Thats how low the bar you just set is.  If this is the only socializing you experience in an mmo, then you are a loner.

 

How in the heck is fast paced combat stopping socilizaing?  You can always stop between mobs and chat if you want. Nothing is stopping that.  Unless you want to stop and chat in the middle of a fight, in which case you are asking them to make the game so stupidly easy that half the people can chat instead of play the game.

 

If this is your vision of an MMO, then its honestly quite pathetic, and a sure fired recipe for failure.

 

 

You are clueless and it is obviously pointless to argue with you any further.  If you cannot or will not see that interacting with people in an online game in a positive manner is a fulfillment of the social contract, then nothing is going to persuade or convince you.

 

I can chat in D3, but it doesn't make it an MMO or give the same MMO experience.  Chatting with strangers is socializing, but its the absolute bare minimum interaction possible.

Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by elohssa

Buffing random peple =/= socializing at any level

Crafting is solo =/= socializing at any level

Helping random peple with solo content =/= socializing at any level

Random chat in general to random people  is barely socializing.  This is little better than buying things on the AH.  Thats how low the bar you just set is.  If this is the only socializing you experience in an mmo, then you are a loner.

 

How in the heck is fast paced combat stopping socilizaing?  You can always stop between mobs and chat if you want. Nothing is stopping that.  Unless you want to stop and chat in the middle of a fight, in which case you are asking them to make the game so stupidly easy that half the people can chat instead of play the game.

 

If this is your vision of an MMO, then its honestly quite pathetic, and a sure fired recipe for failure.

 

 

Chat between mobs?? You are new to modern MMO's aren't you? ^^  No time to stop! Go! Go! Go!... ^^ 

The social aspect has to my experience been rather limited for years now.  But thats ok, I'm not in these games for social interactions. Thats what my family and RL friends are for.  I especially dislike vent, because so few people have any concept of communications discipline.  Nor much discipline in general, for that matter.

 

New to modern MMOs?  If they are modern, then by definition everyone is new to them.... So yah, what does this mean?

 

What is it you guys want?  A fight so easy you can have tea and crumpets in the middle, as you talk about the weather in chat?  Maybe pretend you are troll, and do some lame ass role playing?

 

No social spects in recent mmos.  Well of course there isn't, you are a casual, and you play casual mmos.  Casual mmos don't require co-op as they are faceroll easy, thus you aren't required to actually socialize with other players.  Challenging encounters require you to talk to other players.

 

Communication discipline?!  What i s that?  If you get in vent with douchebags, then you leave.  Its that simple.  FInd a new mature guild. 

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