I had all of my best gaming expierences in SWG CU and Pre CU.   But the time when a roll back would have brought me back to SWG has long passed.

SOE spat in the faces of thier paying dedicated customers with the CU.   They pushed it live despite the huge protest from thier player base.  Wich turned out to not be the CU they said they were going to put out anyway.

SOE spat in the faces of thier paying dedicated customers with the NGE.  They pushed it live despite the huge protest from thier player base.

Twice within 6 months they told thier player base to go get bent.  They actually came out and said that with the NGE they were willing to lose thier existing player base in order to draw in new ones.  Hopefully more.

Yet now suddenly with SW:TOR Beta getting ready to come out, SOE is willing to entertain the idea of classic servers?

Nope.  Not for me.  They had thier chance to make amends with the community they gladly slapped aside.  Too little to late for me.

Originally posted by Daedalus732

As someone who played SWG until the NGE, I'm deeply dissapointed, though not surprised by any means, by the direction Bioware seems to be taking this game. To me, it looks like a single player MMO with a few instances that will require grouping with other people. Thus I have to ask:

"Should we really consider this game an MMO?"

I'm pretty cynical anymore when it comes to MMOs, particularly since I seem to be one of the few people who can recognize the rehashing of the same concept with a different skin that has repeatedly dogged the MMO experience for me. So it looks to me like Bioware is just trying to cash in on the whole MMORPG market using their previous successes as a foundation. It's like someone suggested one day:

"Lets make our next KOTOR game an MMORPG so we have a continuous flow of cash"

When I look at SWTOR's website, I see no mention of guild content, PVP, player cities, or anything that should drive people to play an MMO. Why, after all, should someone pay a monthly fee to play what is basically a single player game? 

I must confess that I didn't like any of the KOTOR games because to me, the time spent on developing a character and taking them through the game world amounted to nothing because all the time you put into the character ultimately meant nothing. The advent of the MMO allows people to continuously develop their character, and lets be honest, show off our achievements. Most important is the comradery and competition between guilds. How many stories and experiences do we best recall from our MMOs that stem only from single player content? Probably not too many.

As an SWG vet, I'm not going to hold my breath on this one. I'm done with the cookie cutter hand holding that companies are using to attract their market. 

I don't want someone to tell me a story, I want to tell other people MY story.

well as far as the single player thing, there is an interview that can be seen here http://www.massively.com/2008/10/23/swtor-overview-part-2/  where a dev is talking about instances and mentions something about it.

here is the quote:

Rich: Yes, there is going to be a form of instancing. That's very important to a lot of different things – being able to do storytelling, being able to do experiences that aren't disrupted in public areas ... they are a part of our game. We do have both though, and we want to make sure you don't feel like you are in a single-player game.

There are also a couple of interviews (which I am too lazy to go find right now) where the devs talk about how pvp will be introduced to players very early on in their character developement and how there will definately be crafting.

Now to what extent any of this will be implemented I have no idea.  I dont think anyone here does at this point.  They could do it all in an amazing way or they could completely botch the entire thing.   Time will tell, and we'll be watching.

Originally posted by CasualMaker

Originally posted by Gutboy

Actually if SOE really cared about money they would roll back to Pre-CU, since they do not it shows they care more about the current subscriber then ever before in game.

 

I agree, and since I don't subscribe to the "it's pride pride all about pride!" view (at least on SOE's part, since I think they really are "all about the money"), this is one of the strongest underpinnings to my belief that such a decision is completely out of SOE's hands. They couldn't (ie. are not allowed to) do a roll-back or classic server if they wanted to.

I agree with you on the part about a rollback not being in SoE's hands.  Ive always believed that if they could rollback they would.  But are not allowed for some reason or another.  I could go on and on with my little conspiracy theory but we'll just leave it at that.  :)

Originally posted by Hegron

They have no idea what star trek was about, community, interaction with others, and what’s this captain crap... my advice would be to at least sit down and watch... ONE! Star trek episode... but sadly... once gain, even after a dev change, they get it in their heads about what they think this license is all about, cutting off the very thing that made start trek great... exploration... adventure new worlds new life. Solving mysteries... engaging environments... lol star ship captains for all....

 

 

No offense, but this game is suppose to have all of that

Copy Paste:

Adventure in the Final Frontier: Explore strange new worlds, seek out new life and new civilizations in an expanding vast universe. Make contact with alien races, discover resources and uncover mysteries that will change the future of the Star Trek universe.

And as far as the everyone is a captain thing goes, I was like you at first.  I didnt really agree with it.  But after I thought about it, it made sense to do it like that for game play reasons.

Can you imagine a game where every position on your bridge had to be filled by an actual player?  There would be alot of problems because people have lives and jobs that would conflict with play times.  Who's going to nagivate the ship if you Helmsman had to work late?  Or fix the warp drive if the engineer is stuck baby sitting?

I know it takes away from the fantasy, but to me it makes sense for game play reasons

cheers :)

Originally posted by PapaLazarou

Bria is packed in Mos Eisley there must be over 50 people just here and going to places all over the planets I see alot of people too. Not as packed as it was in 2003 but seems more busy than its been in years.

No offense but its pretty sad that 50 people is considered to be 'packing' ME.

Looks like they had it at Pizza Hut

Originally posted by Krayzjoel

Wow will diminish in time. The new expansion pack coming out will bring lots back to the fold but not long. maybe in couple years wow will decline, but im sure blizzard will have World of starcraft  working to keep its money flow going.

Wow isnt going anywhere right now. I dont play it anymore due to various reasons but its still a great game.  Ppl mainly continue to play due to the fact that there are alot of ppl still playing that can help with quests.

The real question is.....If  WOW does begin to decline what will happen to the 25-40 man raid instances?

 

WoW is a good game.  I like it.  But I grow tired of the leveling,  and the constand grind for gear.  Running the same instances over and over and over just hopeing for that piece to drop.  Or living day in and day out in BG's for gear.    Wich doesnt make much sense right now to me because once the expansion comes out, the greens that you get in the first area will be just as good as any blues and maybe some epics you get from OL.   Just like when TBC went live.

So even though WoW is a great game, and I know the expansion will be done great...  I just dont have that kind of drive anymore.

On Topic:  WoW isnt going anywhere.  Its way too big, and way too popular.   The new games coming out might put a ding in thier sub numbers, but  WoW  is many peoples first MMO.  They will leave to try out the new games, but eventually they will go back to where they feel comfortable and Blizzard will be there waiting with open arms.   

I have no doubt  WoW  will one day die.  But not for a long while to come.

/cheers

Reading this thread got me curious about the LoTR, so I downloaded the trial to see for myself...

I now see what everyone is talking about when they say that something is missing.   The game itself is solid.  But I agree with alot of you.  Something is missing.  But to me, its obvious....

Its Bland.    There is nothing Vibrant about it.   Nothing to me that set it apart.

The quests (or atleast the ones I did during my trial) were very cookie cutter.  Same ol same ol you see in every other MMO.    Very well written and thought out.   But basicly just go kill blah blah blah, or go collect blah blah blah.  Been done to death in other mmo's

The character customization was good.  But nothing spectacular like CoH/CoV.  Or SWG.

The animations were also very basic and unimpressive.   Combat animations seemed kind of basic and clunky to me.  Even the emotes were very 'Meh'.  

The landscape is very nice.  Very pretty.  But I felt more like I was 'Looking' at it, instead of feeling like I was apart of it.   It remided me of a painting you would see hanging at your grandmothers house.   Like I was playing in someones paint by numbers.

The User Interface is good.  Easy to use, and easy to learn.   Mostly because its just like all the other User Interfaces out there. 

I admit that I only played the trial, and that I didnt truely expierence the game the way it should have been.   But I did feel like the game was definately good, but like alot of you it just didnt keep me.   But to me it was obvious.   There is simply nothing about this game that is innovative.   Nothing setting it apart at its most basic levels.  

When I play LoTR, I feel like Im playing every other mmo Ive played before.  Its as if Ive already been playing this game for several years....   and its boring now.   Its still a great game.   But Ive already done this... alot...  Moving on..

Thank you for your time.. :)

Im just a little confused about the PvP in PotBS...

Are all server/nations open PvP?  Or is it WoWish with PvP servers, and PvE servers?

Chances are this question has already been covered, but seem to have missed it. 

Thanks in advance for any responses  :)

Originally posted by Darth_Pete

 

Originally posted by Bane82

 

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Originally posted by Horkathane
Yes it is a sandbox. You can go anywhere do anything. Your home is open to the world no instancing. Nothing requires you to do anything linear.
Oh big deal they put in levels, now we have a balance. The skill system was way to hard to balance, this was a good move, no more combat medics throwing mind disease and people doing mind pool exploitation. See theres nothing to exploit so the exploiters (35% of all gamers) left. Now they curse the game because theres no I WIN BUTTON anymore.

---

 

LMAO! Guess you never travelled to Kashyyk or even Mustafar.
In fact, when you think about it. Travelling from planet to planet can be considered instancing or zoning (if you want to be technical about it) so is from ground to space. No instancing? ROFL! What are the heroic encounters considered then? LOL!

Fact: SOE was too lazy or too incompetent to put the work that was needed to balance the skill system and in fact it had been said a number of times by the players that combat needed to be FIXED not overhauled. SOE did the opposite, they didn't even "fix what was broke" they simply destroyed what was already working, then pi**ed on the remains. I can't believe there are still vets who like playing this game, and worse claim it is like the second coming of christ. But then again, just as with my metahor above, some people just have weird fetishes and like being pi**ed on. Fact: the game is a JOKE now compared to not only what it was before, but also compared to what's out there NOW. As you said, this cannot be argued, it cannot be debated. 250k-300k people have spoken. You're in the minority, you may be the most vocal, but still the minority.

QFT

 

SOE also need to rewrite the EULA! Instead of  "Gameplay may change during online play" it should say "Gameplay may get f****d up during online play"

You understand that we may update or otherwise enhance the Game and/or the Software at any time and in doing so incur no obligation to furnish such updates to you pursuant to this Agreement.

SoE has said from the very beginning that they 'Technically' can not do a roll back.   But they never say exactly what 'Technically' means.

My theory (and I get flamed for this all the time) is that 'Technically means that they simply can not.   As in they are not allowed.   I think that someone is not letting them have access to, or use of the CU/Pre-CU game system.

I often wonder if a game system can be actually owned.   It is and idea after all.  An invention if you will.   Ideas get patented and copy right all the time.  They become an Intellectual Property themselves with an actual owner(s).  These copy right ideas get sold or maybe.....leased?

Could it be that SoE never actually held ownership of the Pre-CU/CU game system and instead had some kind of limited lease to use it that ran its course and/or got cancelled?

Now, if we decide to go ahead and run with that idea, then things kind of start to make sense (atleast to me).  

 SoE has admitted that the NGE was thier idea.  But why such a drastic change? Could they have felt pushed into it?   Well, if they lost the right to use a Patented game system, then it would make sense that the New game system would have to be completely different to avoid copy right laws.

Maybe it is why they are slowly adding things from the old game system into the new one, and still try and keep it as different as possible from the old gaming system..

I could run all day with this speculation lol...But in the end thats all it is....Speculation.   Just something that I thought of to try and justify the situation.

Thanks for reading my totally unfounded conspiracy theory lol

P.S.  Try and keep the flames to a minimum....I have sensitive skin

Worst Graphics:  Star Wars Galaxies-  Entirely too many particle effects. 

Least Fun: Star Wars Galaxies-  Just simply not fun

Most Desolate:  Star Wars Galaxies-  Out of 25 servers there are only two or three with any kind of population to speak of.  The rest are exactly that-  Desolate.

Worst Use of an IP: Star Wars Galaxies-  For such an amazing IP, SoE has butchered this game beyond reason.  The game isnt even close to being what it should be.

Lamest Launch: Vanguard-  Man, was that a mess of a launch.  Completely broken and unfinished.

Most Likely to Be Cancelled in 2008:  Star Trek-  Its not even in Beta yet, but with all legal trouble it probably never will see Beta

Biggest Stinker: Star Wars Galaxies- Of the ten or so MMO's Ive played, SWG has been the biggest let down.  Without a doubt.

Originally posted by PreCU

 

---

Originally posted by Obraik
To me, the game now reminds me more of what the CU was in its later months then the original NGE.

---

 

lol you couldn't have put much thought into this statement.

Thats like saying that my apartment is more like the Hugh Hefner Mansion than a Termite mound....True...to a point.   I guess.

I

Originally posted by Antarious

For the OP I have a pretty simple answer.

If you remember how many people played on YOUR server the day before the CU.. picture that.

If you remember how many people played on YOUR server the day before the NGE.. picture that.

Then take a 14 day trial if you haven't reactivated (so you won't give soe cash).  Then log in and run around your old server.  Compare that picture to the two above.. and you'll know if the NGE is running or not.

Fanboi or Flameboi... we all have our opinion.

My simple idea is.. log in look around.. so how healthy everything is.  Then tell me how improved the NGE is or how much better its working than that crappy "pre-cu" and its "bleeding subscriber" issues.

The sarcasm isn't meant for the OP.  I think its pretty obvious.. when you login what is "live" and how well its doing.  Of course some people here will tell you of the tens of thousands of people logged in.. Just ask them to take you to them.

 

I did this over the weekend.   Out of curiousity I installed the 14 day trial and used my existing account to take a look around.  For the first time in 2 years I logged in.

My first impression wasnt very good.  I was expierencing tons of lag.  I couldnt hardly move.  I had to go into the options at the launch and turn down all the graphics to low detail everything wich helped alot.   I dont remember having to do that before when I played SWG, but I definately had to do it this time.  

Now, before people start asking questions about my comp set up, Ive played EvE, CoH/CoV, Ryzom, Anarchy Online, Guild Wars, and WoW.  I can play any of those on atleast default graphics settings.

When I got that all worked out, I tried a little combat killing low level critters on Naboo.  Since my toon was lvl 80 I thought it safe to practice.  I really didnt like the FPS style so I went into the options and spent a good amount of time learning the new options and figured out how to set up my controls as close to pre-NGE as I could with Target Lock and Autofire.

Im still tinkering with the auto target/ auto fire, but so far I dont like it either.  I have to go through 4 buttons to initiate combat.  One to target the mob (tab), one to Target Lock (wichever button you assign), another to Auto Fire (wichever one you assign), and then more bottons to fire off your specials.  Entirely too Busy just to kill a mob.  Im still messing with it though.

As far as the population goes, I have toons on Valcyn and Eclipse and both of those had pretty low populations.  On Eclipse I would see 2 or 3 people in the major cities and starports quite regularly with the highest concentration of people I seen in the Mos Eisly Canting numbering about 10.  Nothing like Pre-CU or Pre-NGE, but atleast there were a few people around.  On Valcyn though, I didnt hardly see anyone at all.   Valcyn was totally dead.  Mos Eisly cantina was empty, with one or two people around the city.  I went on a quest to find other people on Valcyn and was totally alone almost the entire time in most every city or planet.  I searched Valcyn most of Saturday Evening during prime time. The most people I seen on Valcyn in one place was at Restuss where there was a group of about 5 or 6 Imps hanging out dueling each other.

I could go on, but in short, so far I am not impressed with the NGE.  Its better than it was at its launch, but its still in bad shape.  Not a game I would pay for.  Maybe after they developed it for another year or two (if they havnt revamped the game again), but not now.

Constantly I see people come into this forum and put down the SWG Vets.  Telling them thats its just a game and to get over it.   Wich I think is kind of rude.   Everyone knows full well that this is called the Refugee for a reason.  If folks dont want to see or read these kinds of posts, then just simply dont come into this Forum.

Then I see the Vets defending themselves by comparing the game to things like Wars, and actual human suffering.  Wich I personally think is too much.  The two dont even come close in comparison and really shouldnt even be mentioned in the same text IMHO.

So Im going to try and use a different comparison that is less traumatic so that maybe the QQers could possible (hopefully) Understand.

So lets compare SWG to say maybe the NFL (National Football League) here in the US.   In the grand scheme of things, Football is just a game.  But yet many people enjoy the game to the point that its more than just a game.  Its thier hobby and thier past time.*  People pay out alot of money on tickets and merchandise in support of thier hobby even though its just a game...

Now imagine that the NFL got NGE'd.  So instead of a full contact sport (game) they changed it suddenly to Flag Football.   Still the same Stadiums, same Players, and the same teams, but the rules drasticly changed.   Can you imagine how upset the fans would be?  They'd be pissed right?  And probably be talking about it for years to come.  Who would want to be the one to walk up to a group of disgruntled Oakland Raiders fans and tell them to QQ and to get over it, its just a game?

 Now I could go on and on with this example.  I could compare the people who pre-paid for a year of SWG just before the NGE with NFL fans who just bought season tickets right before the change, and how upset the fans would be about it, ect ect, but I dont think I have to.  I think everyone atleast kind of gets the point.

So even though SWG is a video game and not a full contact sport, or instead of pissing off literally millions of die hard fans its only half a million or so,  it all boils down to the love of the game.   Wether it be Virtual or on Astro Turf, people wont like it, and take it personally when you destroy thier past time*.

All the QQing in the world wont change it

Have a good day folks

*Edited for correction :)

Originally posted by Samuraisword

*Terms & Conditions
30 day subscription included with purchase of final game software for new subscribers only (existing accounts and SOE Station Access accounts are not eligible to receive gameplay included with purchase). Additional, recurring subscription fees apply thereafter. Converting an account to an active, paid, entitled subscription requires a valid credit card or game time card (if available). Internet connection required.
Players are responsible for all applicable internet fees. Installation and play subject to user agreement and software license and game rules of conduct. All items listed above are awarded one per character and are non-transferable/non-tradeable. Consumer is responsible for lost, stolen or misused keys. Each Pre-Boarding Party key and Landing Party key is unique, cannot be sold or shared, may only be consumed once and is non-transferable. Landing Party key expires on June 30, 2008. Early access is available up to fifteen days prior to the commercial game launch, which date is subject to change. To be eligible for the retail pre-order items described above, consumers must pre-order and purchase the final game software and convert their account to an active, paid, and entitled subscription. After the expiration of any initial period of gameplay that may be included with purchase of the final game software, an active, paying, entitled subscription will require the payment of recurring subscription fees. Scheduled Pre-Boarding Party launch date and the game’s release date are subject to change at Sony Online Entertainment’s sole and absolute discretion. Platform Publishing is a D/B/A of Sony Online Entertainment LLC.

I just noticed this fine print on the preorder. According to this, the game only comes with first 30 days free if you don't already have a sony station account? WTF should that matter? Either the game has first 30 days free or it doesn't. Also SOE claims they have complete control over the launch date. I thought FLS owned this game and were calling the shots and SOE is only handling billing, marketing, and publishing?
 

 

Scheduled Pre-Boarding Party launch date and the game's release date are subject to change at Sony Online Entertainment's sole and absolute discretion

Try it again?  Nope

Its still the NGE

Its still SoE

They are still making game play changes all the time and pissing off thier player base

No thanks.   I'll pass.

So is it time yet for one of those "Official We're Angry at SoE" sticky threads here at PotBS?

Its bound to happen.   Might as well get it over with lol

In SoE Podcast #25 they talked about how they were going to be making changes to Vanguard in order to appeal to a broader audience.

So I was just wondering if anyone has heard anything else about it, or have any ideas of what exactly those proposed changes could possibly be?

This is hilarious.   A perfect flash back of Vanguard.   I know that is not Brad, and Vanguard was a different game, etc. etc.

But you have to admit that its following the same path (for lack of a better word).

All the SoE haters flaming SOE.  Refusing to buy the game.  Warning potential players about SoE...

Then the game developers reassuring that SoE is ONLY publishing, and will NEVER have any influence on the developement of the game.   The Fanbois jumping in defending thier game.  Flame wars all over the place.. 

You have to admit.  Its a flashback with a different game name.   I still wonder why anyone would want to be associated with SoE at all these days.   Just having SoE attatched to the game is going to cost a company not only thier reputation to a certain degree, but also less subscribers to thier game.   SoE must have one hell of a package deal.