Originally posted by Kordesh

Originally posted by ValiumSummer

I discovered Atriarch spring of 2002.    In fact... I excitedly signed up for the beta.   That was 8.5 years ago.   Any "new" idea they spoke of then is no longer new.    Out of curiosity I come back to this forum periodically just to see if MMORPG.Com has taken it off their list yet.

Most of their ideas are new. There hasn't been a damn thing done about making games more dynamic, let alone to the level they had planned, in MMOs since the game was announced which shows how freaking stagnant things have become. 

LOL!

Well when there is a post from 05 followed by 08... this is Darkfail level epic fail... I was wrong about that being vaporware, though it was shittier than all expectation...

Originally posted by bacaloubaca

FE is a good game, but suffers from the one thing the devs probably can't fix: the player base.

I had high hopes for this game and that it would draw in a more mature crowd, but that has not been the case. I had always assumed that immature players gravitated to mostly f2p games and FFAs like Darkfall or MO, but after playing a dozen games, I have a new theory: Sci-Fi games draw the more immature crowds.

Eve Online has one of the most objectionable and immature player bases I know and FE is not far behind. Spend any time in SWG, AO, Neocron, or Jumpgate and you'll see what I mean. I'm guessing STO, SW:TOR, and Stargate will attract the same type of people, which is unfortunate.

What? And in your next post you talk about playing DFO?

Really?  Thats fucking comedic...

DF has the trollinest fanboi crowd since all the Battlenet Kiddies... Take all the worst of all the PvP douchebags in the world (and I love PvP, but damn, all the WORST from Shadowbane/etc) and put them in one game, add a bunch of new younger asshats who bot for the love of the uber, and you have DFO's community...

In fact, the community of FE is SO good it would make up for more problems than FE has!

Something's just not clicking with me on the combat, all the alt/sft clicks stretching your hands around/etc...

But the open world is amazing, I'm hesitant to get into the PvP, but then I just started playing so I have a while to get used to the controls... but the open world is reminicent of Shadowbane, or by brief time in Vantard:Saga of Suckass, but unlike Vantard, the world isn't empty, but alive and vibrant with all kinds of shit randomly strewn about... even in the depth of the Canyon!

I'd really like to see some player built cities and sieging brought in ALA Shadowbane (but NOTHING like the fucking joke of AoC)

Originally posted by Josher

Originally posted by mrmeloni

Originally posted by TheDarzin

Originally posted by kakarotrage

My bet is definitely that Blizzard's working on a sandbox mmo that is themed with their new IP and that is more massive than wow, they gonna release it in 2012 imo.

I'll be surprised if this game has quests I think they will make it a kind of game that the player can do everything like building houses/castles/ crafting that isn't limited to recipes or anything like that.. massive battles in the open world ( a thing that was in wow for a real short time and they decided to end it). There won't be player levels but skill levels. In short it will probably anything isn't in wow.

 

I doubt that Blizzard is going to create a game without questing, look, as much as we want to believe people want freedom, the truth is they crave structure. Countless studies prove that people work better when they have a schedule and goals to meet rather than the freedom to do whatever they wish.

With that being said, I fully expect that the next Blizzard MMO will fully incorporate a themepark inside an open world. There will not be full world battles anymore than there are now. The problem isn't that Blizzard eliminated open world combat, the players did. You can still flag PvP or play on a PvP server and go to Crossroads, South Shore, or Taren Mill and start killing NPCs. People just don't care, because they would rather focus on goal driven, structured PvP combat.

Now, Blizzard will create a half-sandbox game, and probably implement a way to level separate professions as you would level a class. I hope they consider Blacksmith as important as Warrior. I do fully expect level caps to reach though, because people love goals. It keeps them motivated, and in a true sandbox game, you still set goals for yourself, the game just doesn't guide you along.

I will agree though, I do hope they add housing and so on, give players far more options, and maybe even a way to level that doesn't involve questing/mob grinding -- but somehow, I think it will play an important role in the game either way. Player freedom is great, as long as you give the player a goal at the end of the day.

Here is a question: what is the goal of Eve?

 

IMO giving players goals to achieve is just as bad as giving them quests to complete and leading them through the game with it. It's the exact same thing, and many of us are sick of it. Your goal in EVE online is whatever you want to make it, and that goal probably changes constantly.

The answer to what's your goal in Eve is, To make ISK.  Thats it.  Saying, I'll go mine today, or craft today, or PvP today, of kill pirates or rats today is just another way of making ISK.  I can do similar things in WOW each time I log in, so constantly changing goals in Eve is NOTHING unique.  I had constantly changing goals in WOW when I played.

Do I go collect flowers or mine some Ore to craft something or sell on the AH, or give to my guildy so he can go craft something?

Do I do a dungeon?

Do I just solo?

DO I do a quest?

DO I go to Wintergrasp?

Do I go to the arena?

Do I hit a battleground?

DO I gather some reputation with a faction?

DO I want to just go kill some Alliance just for the hell of it?

Do I want to collect another pet or a mount?

Do I want complete another acheivement?

DO I level up another character without paying another monthly fee?

Do I redesign the guild tabard?

As you can see, I have LOADS of choices in WOW.  How am I forced down a path?  PLEASE explain=)

 

You are forced down one path with all of those choices:
 

Do I grind, or logout?

One doesn't have to put a month of effort into Df, one mearely has to put a few weeks of macroing in... like half [or more] of the people who play it!

its so funny to see fanboi's talk about DF and skill... really? It takes skill to swing that sword over and over and over? [or have a macro do it for you] or cast that magic spell over and over?

And the OP was perfectly clear: Skill level is still levels... the only levelless games are true FPS's where the only difference between your char and mine are the weapon loadout. Everything else comes from the player.

This is NOT true of DF. period.

welcome to the apocalypse!

 And waitassecond, aren't you that dude from AoC that had some barbarian-like clan and was like a total Lore-nazi?  i remember the name from pre-release AoC forums, heh.

Yep, they [the actual Funcom devs] called us "Lore Mongers"... its a lot less offensive!

But yeah, that was me, those backstabbing honorless shiteaters, the Snowhawk Clan, booted all the founding members eventually in order to become a leetd00d raiding/PvP asshat clan that ended up not following the lore at all... its sad really, but I'll never touch AoC again, not even the free 2 weeks they keep emailing me about :p

Originally posted by Cerion

Originally posted by AntonioV

 So FE has just been gradually adding and losing subs, their version of a launch day is Sundays. It doesn't happen anymore because everyone quit the game, but on Sundays the game used to plummet like a rock.

 

 

You are using the logical fallacy of questionable cause. 

WHOA! Easy there tiger, you use too many logical arguments on these kids and you are gonna BLOW THEIR MINDS!

Nice join date by the way you old bastard!

After seeing this thread again, i realize that the title is a wish, something this bitter person is praying for... since its obviously not reality.

I'd try the official forums, unlike the big boys these guys have a forum with open registration, you don't been an acctive account... so you can see what everyone is complaining about!

(and judge from WHAT they are complaining about wether they are just another WoW kiddie)

Originally posted by Darkholme

As far as I am aware there are no free trials going on at the moment...

But you never know if someone has an extra buddy key... though the official forums is a better way to go now that I think about it...

Merged: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/260233/Why-cant-we-get-a-Shadowbane2.html

Seriously... this game had/has all the best concepts that any MMO could hope to have:

BY FAR AND AWAY THE MOST STRIVED FOR HOLY GRAIL OF MMO's:

Player generated content.

This was facilitated by the #2 thing that will make an MMO long lasting: Player/world interaction...

Everyone wants to effect the world and leave their mark, what better way the building a big ass city in the middle of the wilderness?

Oh wait, before you say it, no, Dorkfail is not it... its too ugly, too exploitable, and full loot is just retarded... not because I don't like risk/rewards, I LOVED bag loot in Shadowbane, but you just aren't going to ever be successful like that... and I don't wanna here the apologists say "they always wanted to make a niche game!", Bullshit... who doesn't want to make millions of dollars more than they are?

That's right, no one! You'll never have a large audience, and its just a bother to have to gear up that many times in a siege...

Some support for #1 generator of in game events: RP...

That would have really helped Shadowbane last longer, but the RPers that were there were the best of the best and some of the best PvPers in the game as well... cause of all the d00d hate they had to be.

WoW will never have world interaction, but then its for people who like to be spoonfed... AO had it to a point, and in fact thats why its still kicking after all the crap it went through, people love player cities!

I really believe that AoC could have been the WoW killer if not for the fact that the player cities are totally retarded... I'm sorry but I want to build and design my city layout, I don't want a damn bank node that you pour resources into thats in the same place and produces the exact same building as every other stupid player city... Look at Shadowbane, they had racial buildings for every PC race and some NPC races!

Also, the "NPC Hiving" idea, where Picts would build a city and would come attack and seige yours on occasion, and the bigger you let them build up the more reward when you tore it down, was one of my most anticipated features.... THAT NEVER MADE IT INTO THE GAME! Idiots... that has SO much ridicuous amounts of replay value...

I guess Darkfall made by a REAL dev team that doesn't have their heads up their ass and realizes that ANYTHING client side is gonna get raped, and can design a game that isn't ugly as sin, would work as well...

I guess my perfect game would be a cross between AoC and Shadowbane: real consequences for PvP (bag loot, and if you are tagged someone is going to be to see you, or your guild city, soon), and the player cities and the OPEN WORLD of SB, and the looks and high production value of AoC...

Is that so much to ask?
 

Originally posted by Goronian

 I never got to experience "true" RP, since I got into the party late. But I suppose the are two things, that kill it, more, than anything -

1) Static unchangeable worlds.

2) People who go to RP servers and don't bloody RP.

I especially hate the "2)". I don't care if it's more mature, you either RP or you transfer.

You don't have to RP to be on an RP server, as long as they aren't douchebags and have a lore-appropriate name...

Originally posted by caalem

Originally posted by Devour

Originally posted by caalem 

It's this reason alone we probably won't see a good PvP game for quite a long time.

Time and time again, we see "PvP game" developers just NOT getting it.

To attract wolves, you need the possibilty of having sheep.
To keep the wolves fed, you have to have sheep.
To have sheep, you have to have delicious grass.
To have delicious grass, you have to have a good bit of planning on where you're planning to settle down.
However, assuming sheep can talk, and word can pass from one sheep to the next once it is killed, the grass has to be long enough and delicious enough to attract the sheep DESPITE being told there are wolves there.

To translate:

To attract PvP fighters, you need the possibility of having "carebears".
To keep the PvP fighters amused, you need to HAVE the "carebears" in game.
To have "carebears", you have to have features to attract them.
To have the features to attract them, you have to have planned out the ability to attract them to your game.
But, "carebears" will stay away from the game via word of mouth if they know it's EXTREMELY dangerous for them to be there, so the features have to be diverse and interesting enough to keep them in game, or they need enough protection to stop the aggressive ones from having a conquering session on them. Also, the ability to give the PvP fighters an occassional lashing SOMEHOW would keep them amused.

Without "carebears", the wolves will turn on each other and the game will slowly die an agonising death. EvE managed to get their act together and attract people of all playing varieties, making the game even more attractive.

This is what makes me laugh when one kind of sandbox player scoffs at another, ALL of them are necessary to make a SANDBOX game, you can't make and exclude one type or another, they have to all be in the game for it to work well enough.

This may surprise you, but most PvPers don't enjoy PvPing with carebears... because they suck.

It is occasionally fun to mess with them because they always cry, but it's the same as beating a single player game on easymode.

Have you ever played a PvP game? Easymode is what 70% or more of the PvPers want cause they are douchebags...

Also, is tarted a "why no SB2?!?"thread when this one was NOT on the front page...

I have to agree with the original quoted person...

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Rinna

Don't pay for additional pixels - please.  All gamers should band together to insure this practice doesn't become a trend.  Start paying for out of game pixels now and tomorrow we'll have to pay for everything that is currently part of a "normal monthly subscription'.

 

hmmm, sorry but I think I will if it is of value to me.

Hello Part of the Problem, pleased to see you again...

Installing game now, I'll tell you how it goes... well downloading game now, the patched client... Thanks a lot for the speedy replies! this has been the best forum on mmorpg so far, except for the few people who cried and went back to WoW :p

The only thing I like about steampunk is the goggles... http://worlddominationtoys.com/drsteel/enter.html

But most likely it would be a grinder...

Originally posted by Axehilt

The easy answer is "Where is Shadowbane now?"  (which is an echo of "Where is UO now?" and "Where is DAOC now?" to answer the other threads we've seen lately.)

But that even feels like a hollow answer to me, as someone who thinks it's retarded we haven't seen more Planetside-style MMOFPSes and Natural Selection-style FPS/RTSes.  Both of which are in the same boat, to varying degrees.

Although maybe PS was successful enough to prove my underlying point, given that it's been around forever, it's still around, and now we're getting Planetside 2.

Well the "Where is SB now" question can be answered by "where the Devs bullshit coding and clunky engine left it"... which is dead. But the fact is, even AC2, the game that literally gave me headaches when I tried to play it, had SOME good concepts, there really isn't many MMO's that doesn't have SOME lesson future devs can learn from, but the fact is Shadowbane had more of the best CONCEPTS than any other actually released MMO I've ever played or even read about.

It was a shame to waste that game on Wolfpack.

Thats the differance between games like SB, and DaoC/etc, and WoW and the grinder clones... the latter brings no new concepts to the table, they [WoW] just perfectly executed the right formula of the EQ model (for children), and the grinders well... they are hit and miss EQ1 knockoffs as well. With Azn spices...

Originally posted by gamer2171

Originally posted by Sturmrabe

Originally posted by skarwolf

 Good riddance

 

So how's puberty treating you?

 

You know for someone your age or obvious superior maturity...you seem to snipe at a lot of people.

Calling em as I sees em... maturity =/= niceness

Seriously... this game had/has all the best concepts that any MMO could hope to have:

BY FAR AND AWAY THE MOST STRIVED FOR HOLY GRAIL OF MMO's:

Player generated content.

This was facilitated by the #2 thing that will make an MMO long lasting: Player/world interaction...

Everyone wants to effect the world and leave their mark, what better way the building a big ass city in the middle of the wilderness?

Oh wait, before you say it, no, Dorkfail is not it... its too ugly, too exploitable, and full loot is just retarded... not because I don't like risk/rewards, I LOVED bag loot in Shadowbane, but you just aren't going to ever be successful like that... and I don't wanna here the apologists say "they always wanted to make a niche game!", Bullshit... who doesn't want to make millions of dollars more than they are?

That's right, no one! You'll never have a large audience, and its just a bother to have to gear up that many times in a siege...

Some support for #1 generator of in game events: RP...

That would have really helped Shadowbane last longer, but the RPers that were there were the best of the best and some of the best PvPers in the game as well... cause of all the d00d hate they had to be.

WoW will never have world interaction, but then its for people who like to be spoonfed... AO had it to a point, and in fact thats why its still kicking after all the crap it went through, people love player cities!

I really believe that AoC could have been the WoW killer if not for the fact that the player cities are totally retarded... I'm sorry but I want to build and design my city layout, I don't want a damn bank node that you pour resources into thats in the same place and produces the exact same building as every other stupid player city... Look at Shadowbane, they had racial buildings for every PC race and some NPC races!

Also, the "NPC Hiving" idea, where Picts would build a city and would come attack and seige yours on occasion, and the bigger you let them build up the more reward when you tore it down, was one of my most anticipated features.... THAT NEVER MADE IT INTO THE GAME! Idiots... that has SO much ridicuous amounts of replay value...

I guess Darkfall made by a REAL dev team that doesn't have their heads up their ass and realizes that ANYTHING client side is gonna get raped, and can design a game that isn't ugly as sin, would work as well...

I guess my perfect game would be a cross between AoC and Shadowbane: real consequences for PvP (bag loot, and if you are tagged someone is going to be to see you, or your guild city, soon), and the player cities and the OPEN WORLD of SB, and the looks and high production value of AoC...

Is that so much to ask?

I"m leery about TOR, but I'm not gonna smacktalk it without some hands on time...

I'm REALLY fuckin leery about FF14, FF11 was a shitfest... Did they learn? SquareAnus is not Squaresoft, I miss Squaresoft.... but their association with Sony likely means RMT.

And I don't even follow anything SOE or with item malls, so no clue about those others.

Well the thing is, with a strong RP community you have many community generated events, and no, I don't mean just weddings and stupid crap like that...

We had Stygian Hunts in AoC, with Cimmerians gathering up like a horde and rolling into Stygia to slaughter... that was RP, that was brutal PvP action.

Lots of crap like that.

You can't count on GM's/Devs to hold all the events, player generated content is the HOLY GRAIL of MMO's, any game that can facilitate that will truly win. Shadowbane would be the big boy on the block if it wasn't click-to-move and a horribly flawed engine, but the idea they had with player cities and politics was the endgame, and it was endgame that would NEVER be exhausted because there will always be new political intrigue.

RP and non RP intrigue, and let me tell you the Shadowbane community was extremely hostile towards RPers but the RP clans there were the cream of the crop, top notch players AND PvPers AND RPers... I doubt I'll ever see the like again.

Anyway, You cannot take the RP out of MMORPG, and thinking just because you are a ganker douchebag you are somehow less of a geek than someone who plays the SAME GAME and RPs is self delusional.