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All Posts by Shaigh

All Posts by Shaigh

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464 posts found

They released the game on steam early access and they have done good promotions for the game, on pax and on this site. The biggest issue for the game is that they haven't been able to get it to beta and at this point its better to put all focus on improving the game instead of launching a promotion campaign on what's essentially an alpha.


Hyping it now will most likely turn away quite a lot of people that would be interested to play a release version of the game.

Everything is relative, wow leveling wasn't hard or slow, except if you compare it to how wow is today. As far as directions go, I will point out certain things that blizzard did, and the consequences of their actions. 


  • The reduction of monster health at end of TBC and the first change in vanilla leveling
During tbc leveling a new character was quite lengthy, it wasn't hard, it simply took time, and people did become more active because of the change. More and more people started to level up alts simply because of the reduction of time it took to do vanilla leveling.
  • The introduction of LFG in wotlk
It made sense at the time, and it definitely increased players activity because it removed the big hurdle to do group content.
  • The removal of group quests in cataclysm
WoW did have group quests before, but not that many players did them anyway.
  • Increase in dungeon difficulty in cataclysm
Lots of players wanted harder dungeon difficulty after wotlk. Blizzard made them harder in cataclysm, and activity dropped big time. While there were a few that was happy about the change, the big casual masses just didn't enjoy them and that's why MoP dungeons was a return to ez-mode heroics.
  • LFraid in cataclysm
It did increase player activity and lots of people that never entered raids started to do them.

The only hype fail mmorpg I ever played was warhammer online.


I did play plenty of others that weren't that good, but swtor was mostly the game it was advertised to be, and the same thing could be said about games I beta-tested like gw2, eso and wildstar. I don't even know why people were so hyped up about archeage.


The problem is that people would rather build their own dream castle based on what developers say instead of viewing information critically.

Originally posted by Dullahan
Originally posted by Shaigh
To link back to the original statement, the reason why Pantheon wasn't developed under SOE wasn't because the game was niche, that it was brad mcquaid or any other things. SOE lacked the funds to make the game happen since they were already building everquest next and landmarks.

It doesn't at all surprise me that SOE wouldn't produce Pantheon or that they wouldn't make EQ Next like classic EQ.  Lets be real here, SOE's vision since the original EQ team left back in 2001 has been to add mass appeal to their games and make more money.  The result has been the most damaging decisions to more IPs than any other company in history.  Look at EQ, look at EQ2, look at SWG, look at Vanguard, even look at Planetside2.  Thats just to name a few, but the same problem exists with all of their games.  Each one of those games went in a different direction than what originally made the game or IP great, and now they wouldn't know what it takes to make a decent game if someone slapped them in the face with the proof of concept.

Why would daybreak produce it now, they had to let go of 40-50% of their employees and that's not the time to pickup another mmorpg in concept stages. It makes much more sense to take advantage of the current popularity of h1z1 and milk the steam players for money to make them financially stronger.


Pantheon needs somewhere around $10M to $20M to happen, and at this point Daybreak lacks the money to make such an investment.

To link back to the original statement, the reason why Pantheon wasn't developed under SOE wasn't because the game was niche, that it was brad mcquaid or any other things. SOE lacked the funds to make the game happen since they were already building everquest next and landmarks.
Originally posted by BillMurphy
It could just be a "squeaky wheel" sort of thing. The folks who are discontented will go to forums and other places of communication and voice their concerns. Those who are happy, tend to be playing the game, not spending hours lauding the developers.  

I partially disagree, people that are passionate about their gaming will make their voices heard, both in a positive and a negative fashion. Silent people play the game and have fun, but they will also leave in silence.


However, I wish people would fuel their negativity on a game by making productive feedback that could aid developers in making a better game, instead of just making another complaint thread.

Originally posted by movros99

What I want to say about Paul Barnett will get me yet another ban on the forums here.

I hope he and Jeff Hickman never ever touch another game.  

I will never forget or forgive.

EA louse was some random internet persons fantasy and not based on reality. 

Both games have difficulty settings but I found fights in pillars of eternity easier to get into (partially because its similar to older games), better balanced but much harder to play on toughest difficulties. All classes fights in different ways and your success in pillars has a lot to do with positioning. The game also have fairly weak healing so you can't save your squishies by just spamming heals on them.


In d:os the difficulty is about finding which strategy that works, but once you do it works pretty much all the time and on hard fights becomes a war of attrition, the fights don't really change all that much and what works after 5 hours works at the end, with the biggest difference is that they take more time. This is caused by casters and healing being way too powerful.


However, the downside of pillars of eternity is quite a lot of your character build at the start sticks with you for the rest of the game, while divinity is far more forgiving since you can change directions on your characters over time.

For a game that's scheduled for release in summer 2016 I expected more. This won't be released until 2017.

Both lost ark and lineage eternal promises open world gameplay so that would make them mmorpg's.
Originally posted by Phry
It only takes a couple of hours to reach level 10, as its part of the training levels, tbh, you should be able to do the first 16 levels or so very easily, and that takes you into the initial dungeons, by this point you should have started your class storylines. As for the rest, one of the big reasons why FFXIV;ARR is so popular is because it does feel like a Final Fantasy game, if you don't like it then chances are, that Final Fantasy games are not your thing 

I played it briefly during beta, but the impression I had was that it was WoW with chocobo skin. It can't just be the final fantasy factor that makes people playing it. What is it that the game does good and/or better than others?

Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

The link in my signature


That's all games, not just MMOs

Thank you for the link.

The article is about how many kickstarters gets funded, not how many of them gets completed. Below is a list of completed games that received more than $75k in funds. I would argue on a few cases, but in most cases it holds true.



What you notice is that quite a lot of them deliver a game but they are generally awful at reaching the date they originally pointed out. Crowdfunded MMO's are the worst on this, not one has been completed so far. However, games like the repopulation, pathfinder online, shroud of the avatar, camelot unchained, star citizen is in a playable alpha, but they are way behind on schedule, and its a question if they can deliver on all their promises.


The questionable thing about kickstarter MMO's is that you can't make a serious MMO with less than $1M, you probably need at least $5M to actually deliver a decent finished game, and they are gambling your money on finding external investors as time goes by. You also have no idea how they will monetize your game, and we have seen questionable behavior from a few developers.


There are lots of reasons to support indie kickstarter games and lots of good games happened because of it, but I am very skeptical when it comes to mmorpg's.

If you spend $500 on crowdfunding an mmorpg you can afford to spare that kind of money. Just don't bitch about it like all the people buying a collectors edition for an mmorpg that they didn't enjoy for more than a month.

Lords of the fallen

Darksiders 1+2

Originally posted by CrazKanuk
Originally posted by Daffid011
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Bascola
Originally posted by Seelinnikoi


Ten years ago you would be ridiculed if you tried to fool people like this... the industry really has gone to dung!


No not the industry, PEOPLE. People have gone full retard, it's a fact, undeniable and the evidence is right there. I bet people will pay the monthly subscription to test the BR game mode too. It's hard to believe but this shit is real.

IF they're having fun, there's no problem in my eyes.... Forking over money to an early access game makes far more sense to me than buying into words or video diaries, paying adolescent Youtube streamers or twitch channels, etc...


Bascola makes a point though.  People continue to pay for unfinished games, so there isn't much incentive for developers to take their time and do a good job and as a result bad games flood the market and die slow deaths.  The fault ultimately lies with people.  If players stopped paying for garbage, then developers would be forced to increase quality to earn those dollars.

H1Z1 has sold over a million copies, which sounds good.  Sale are going up, but at the same time the population of the game is going down.  A couple months ago the population was 30-40k online at any given time.  It has since declined to 11-15k online.

I think the ratio of people having fun in these unfinished games is very low as people are so desperate for anything decent to play they will take risks they wouldn't have a few years ago.  Same for developers.  If they can eliminate the risk by pushing out half finished games under the guise of early access, why wouldn't they.   It's just to bad so many of these crash and burn as a result of that design philosophy.


Early Access is, very much, a double-edged sword. There were some absolutely phenomenal games released last year out of crowdfunding efforts. Actually, I believe that Divinity: Original Sin was nominated almost universally in PC categories. Pillars of Eternity is already getting some REALLY strong first impressions. I truly believe that you're wrong about Early Access, as is Bascola. 


Think of it from the opposite side of things. Crowdfunding goes away. People need to go back to traditional funding options. "Go get some funding from a publisher!" All of a sudden we're back to having to please and deliver for a publisher. Reduce costs, reduce innovation, push it out the door. I don't really see how that could produce a better quality product. 


Yes, I agree, that crowdfunding places some risk on the consumer, but I think that most understand that, too. You don't need to back that project. 


What I can't disagree with you on is the issue of product life cycle. Does it decrease their effective product life cycle? Honestly, 11k-15k concurrent users isn't bad. It's actually pretty good, in the context of all games available to us right now. It's a matter of whether that same base will be around when the actual release happens. I think that's part of the EA bubble we don't have a lot of data on yet. I'll wait and see. In reality, you could be right, EA could be the next release model. In the end, though, why should a developer spend a year worth of salaries on a game if they can push it out earlier and off-set those expenses? 

Steam early access isn't crowdfunding. From their guidelines "Don't launch in Early Access if you can't afford to develop with very few or no sales."

With the way your experience system works where your exp earned is because of time subscribed, will someone joining your game a year after launch be able to compete with players that joined from the start, or will they constantly lag a year behind on the power curve?
Originally posted by Avarix

This has been invading all genres it seems. There are some lengthy debates being had right now on Pillars of Eternity's forums about whether or not you should be able to respec your character in PoE. I think this is part of the 'casual' mindset. Half of the players on the forums there actually want you to be able to respec your character in a single-player cRPG inspired by Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale.

Unlike people that played old games and used an editor to modify the save files, or the huge amount of games that didn't really give you much spec options to begin with.


The whole deal with respec is that playing through half the game just to recreate your party and start from beginning is a huge waste of time and its one of those things that makes people quit the game.

Gaming experiences are entirely subjective and anyone that says their way of experiencing gaming is better is always wrong. The person that is wrong the most is the ones that starts calling others name.


With that said, much of what made older mmorpg's interesting has been replaced by convenience which lessens the experience for a huge amount of players. Most mmorpg's has really bad player retention which was the old quality check, if people keep playing its a good MMO, if people ditch out within 3 months its a bad one.


One thing is getting more obvious, investors don't believe in mmorpg's like they used to, everquest and UO spawned games like daoc, eve, swg and WoW, and the batch of games we had in recent years were spawned by the success of WoW. I don't see the current batch of mmorpg's spawning new games, AAA money is put on making moba's or online shooters instead.


What we see now is indie development of games that resemble early mmorpg's, so its clear that western game developers don't believe that the key to the future is the current batch of mmorpg's.

Originally posted by MMOVet74

I was just checking the wiki and read this , "Although BioWare has not disclosed development costs, industry leaders and financial analysts have estimated it to be between $150 million and $200 million or more, making it, at the time, the most expensive video game ever made."

MMOs are not like other indie games. One game developer or even  a small group of  game developers  can make a great indie game. Just look at some of the top games played on Steam. But MMOs are a different beast, and require so much more man power and resources to make,  money become the essential driving force. 

Obi Wan Kenobi: "That MMO was our last hope."

Yoda: "No, there is  another."

What is Yoda not telling us?

Please find me some industry leaders and financial analysts that actually said those numbers, because all it links to is the same article copied all over the place with no actual sources on who said those things.


"It may be the largest entertainment production in history. More than 800 people on four continents have spent six years and nearly $200 million creating it. The story runs 1,600 hours, with hundreds of additional hours still being written. Nearly 1,000 actors have recorded dialogue for 4,000 characters in three languages."


Did they really have more than 800 people that spent six years on the game, sounds like an exaggarated number. The game definitely didn't have 1600 hours of story, the guy just multiplied 8 classes and 200 hours.

When you are doing repetitive simple tasks game session after game session just to get upgrades to do the same some of repetitive tasks. It can be mob, quest, daily quest or reputation grinding and you are only doing it for the reason to do it and at one point I ask myself "are you having fun?", if the answer is "no" I logout. After enough sessions of answering "no" I stop playing altogether.


Dumbed down dungeon gameplay to fit bad players using LFG tools with no desire to communicate.


Cash shops selling exp boosters and gear.

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