All Posts by eccoton

Originally posted by LondonMagus

 

 

I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree about the armour options. You might find them fun, but many including myself find them repetetive & it isn't just a matter of choices because quite simply there aren't enough of them, especially if you prefer to play mages. Your character's appearance is possibly the most important aspect of the graphics in any game & whilst the appearance tab has improved things a lot, it is all still too arbitrary. Rather than being able to really choose how you look, you are left hanging on to a robe that you outgrew 20 levels ago because all the others look ghastly.  Some of the armour options you showed in your previous post are actually high level status armour that is unavailable to lower level players. Other MMOs allow players much greater flexibility from the very start, not just fluff for high level players like the seldom seen 'Professional Hats'.

Actually that is not true at all. None of the armor show is high level only one is status armor and that is on a level 20 toon. That status armor is a low cost status armor many newer players have it. All the armor shown is easy to get for any player. I am a soloer so I do not even have the really cool raiding drop stuff. The cool looking red armor is haze armor mid level easy to get armor. Even without the high level sets you can make some fun combos. What made the better armor looks even for low level players is the appearance option. Granted that option does not make armor better but it allows you to mix and match to make creative sets. Oh my gnome is a greasy lowlife so I am good with the look but I get your point.

Originally posted by Terranah

 

I'm not bitter, lol.  But you qualify your opinion by adding you're an art instructor.  I was just trying to get a frame of reference.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, something you as an instructor should be keenly aware of.  So I was just curious what eyes you were looking through that EQ2 is so beautiful.

 

 

Thanks for putting up the screenshots of your art by the way.  They are very nice.  But I fail to see how your type of art makes you any more qualified in your opinion than the rest of us.

 

 

 

You totally misunderstand that comment and this is the second time I am trying to explain it to you. I never said the fact I was an art instructor made me more qualified. Nothing in the context of that original statement and anything to do with me being more qualified, go and reread it. I mention I was an art instructor that also taught in a game program because someone here and in another thread said that I simply did not understand state of the art graphic. My mention of my teaching never once said or had anything to do with my feelings about eq2 graphics in anyway. They were used to point out I understand graphics, graphic engines, how the industry works, the tech needed to make graphics, the terminology, etc. I was showing I am more then a gammer I do understand how the games are designed. Has nothing to do with appreciating art or the graphics. I never suggested that it did.  

I hope you understand this I am not putting you down in anyway, but you simply miss understood my comments. Did you read my comment when I posted these picture I said the same thing you did. I did not understand how posting my picture had anything to do with why I liked EQ2 graphics. So I guess I am not sure why you even responded they way you did. You need to reread the original comments in their context. If I said what you claim I did you would have a point but I did not. Here is the quote:

I was told I did not understand graphics or lighting effects (I am a college art instructor and work in an art and gaming program). Basically my thoughts were dismissed because it was said I simply do not get it.

My bitter comment was just a joke. Thought maybe an old art instructor pissed you off or something.

Originally posted by LondonMagus

 

Originally posted by eccoton

I realized when I started this thread many would disgree with my feelings about EQ2 and it's graphics. That was the reason I started the post because I find them really good. Not perfect but a lot better then most people say. I still believe that many of the negative comments about EQ2 graphics are from people who can not or have not maxed the graphic settings. I say this since I simply do not see the same thing. One comment about EQ2 never looking dark is wrong. First you need to turn off your personnel torch effect (which I hate anyway) you also need to lower ambient light effects, check your gamma setting. I love how dark and moody EQ2 can be. One response talked about how EQ2 only has one light source simply not true. If you set your light options you can have as many as 10 each effecting the enviroment according to it's own physics. Each casting shadows based on its placement in the enviroment. When I stated this I was told I was wrong and did not understand graphics. Well I am not wrong I see the 10 different effects all the time. You can not argue a point with someone who refuses to accept they may have made a wrong statement. When it come to EQ2 I hear a lot of wrong statement. Mostly I think because the person simply has not seen EQ2 maxed with a good framerate. I stand by this opinion.

SOE offers more graphic options then any other mmo. For someone like me this is great I have tested and researched every option and what it does in relationship to the other options. I have even talked directly to SOE about all the options. However there might be to many for some players and most do not know how they really effect the look and performance of the game. I have had other players over to my house and when they see EQ2 on my system they always seem to ask how come it looks so good on your setup. Like I said earlier if you have your ducks in a row EQ2 stands up to the best mmos today graphically. Getting your ducks in a row with EQ2 is to hard for most and a huge mistake by SOE. Getting EQ2 to perform good with your system should be easier.

Other issues about lack of armor styles are true they need more but what they have are great. I also noticed a lot of the negative comments are really more about SOE then the game itself. I think some people really dislike SOE so much that their feelings about anything SOE does will reflect this. Even in this thread many comments include SOE broken promises, lieing by SOE to keep people paying, Lack of art direction, and others. SOE is not the devil as some believe. They made a huge mistake and hurt many players with the SWG thing but they have done EQ2 right in my opinion.

 

I don't understand why you are so convinced that the main reason people dislike the graphics is that they just don't know how to configure the game. It doesn't matter how many shading effects you have enabled, the models & artwork will still look the same just a lot better highlighted.

Similarly with the armour styles, yes some of them look great but lots of them look mediocre & there just isn't enough choice. Would you be happy to wear the same outfit forever in RL because you hated everything in the shops?

SOE might not be the devil, but they certainly have a lot to learn about customer service. If you forget about Vanguard (no offence to VG fans, but I generally try to), then EQ & EQ2 are the only SOE MMOs I have played. I have of course read lots about SWG, but my opinions about SOE are strictly first hand.

I am genuinely happy that you have had no negative experiences with SOE & hope that nothing happens to disillusion you, but that doesn't mean that you can dismiss other people's dislikes about EQ2 graphics as mere prejudice.

You make a good point but way over state what I said. I think many people dislike EQ2 graphic simply because they do not like them. However when they use things like lack of light effects, no darkness, poor animations, no shadows, etc these are things that are in options so I think many do miss out because they do not set their graphic maxed or understand all the options and use them wrong. What I am saying is some of the people who dislike the graphics do not have to box to experience them and that is not the games fault. Not everyone though.

Your comments about the armor I disagree with I find it diverse and fun. My toons each have 3 or 4 outfits they wear and they are great. You don't feel that way, I understand that. But your comments about armor are not about the graphics you are talking about choices. This thread was about the graphics of EQ2 not the games shortcomings or it triumphs. There are planty of both. My list of things that could be changed or improved is long. That does not change the fact the game looks good and is fun to play for many. I started this to hopefully get people to take another look at EQ2. Never putting down those that disagree or dislike EQ2 but the tone of many of those that dislike EQ2 (in other threads as well) is one of putting down those who do, as not getting it or being a fanboi. Niether are true in my case. I simply like EQ2 and how it looks.

Originally posted by jiveturkey12

 

Originally posted by D3mis3

Or do other people find this game extremely dull too? Is there something I was doing wrong that made the game boring?

I played the trial for a few days and enjoyed the first few levels (like every other MMO). I gave it a chance and subscribed ($20 price-tag was one of the pull-factors). I played about another week and found myself becoming increasingly bored. I made it to about lvl25, and all I found I was doing were same repetetive fetch or kill x amount quests. I finally deciced I didn't want to spend the $15 a month (I had almost run out of 30day free time) and quit.

Well most MMOs can hold me for at least more then 2 months or so, but LotRO has to be the shortest run I've ever had. Was there anything I could have done better to maximize my fun?

From what I was doing, i could have more fun with a paperclip.

 

Yea im going to have to agree, i dont know what it was either, even EvE a game that I used to hate, I ended up playing for a good solid 4 months before I quit, and i was quite regular.

 

I bought lortro and a 3 month sub, played for about 2 weeks on and off and quit. I loved the RPing, that I did with people and alot of other features like music and housing, its just for some reason It just couldnt keep it for me. I needed something else to make me keep coming back and it just wasnt there.

 

-Jive

Yea for me to. I gave it months and wanted to really love it. However I left as well. Many things are really great about LOTRO. I love the lore since I love the books and the movies. Only thing that may have caused this feeling in a lot of players, that I can think of, is lack of sandbox. Since all the action in the game takes place in Middle Earth you are limited to the types of things you fight and the over all look of the world. This eventually gets a bit stale. You never feel like you really live in Middle Earth. I think that is what so many were looking for a more sandbox experience to actually live in Middle Earth. Even though there is housing I never really felt I was part of the saga. Even with the book quests, lore, housing, and more the game just felt flat after awhile. Like other have said it is hard to put your finger on.

Originally posted by LondonMagus

 

Originally posted by eccoton

Alternate models have been mentioned. Here is a shoot of one of my toons with original look and alternate models. I think both look pretty cool.

 

Oh no! I love the other SOGA models but gnomes are just ghastly, what were they thinking? The only race in the game that gets to wear customised spectacles & they replace them with bad stuck on moustaches, WTF.

It was such a shame, the Euro-model Gnomes have the Playdoh look (which I know many people prefer!), so I was looking forward to having cool Anime style gnomes & instead we got these weird ugly things with permanently greasy hair. I tried for hours to create one that looked acceptable, but in the end I just got rid of my gnome alt character & haven't played one since.

Allegedly the new skeletal revamp might give Gnomes a third shot at looking good, but SOE have been promising that for so many years now that it is seems like a trick to persuade people not to abandon the game.

LondonMagus, I really love my ugly greasy looking gnome. He has a look that speaks of a pissed off gnome with a bad attitude. I love roleplaying this greasy little badass. He does need a smoke hanging from his lips though.

I realized when I started this thread many would disgree with my feelings about EQ2 and it's graphics. That was the reason I started the post because I find them really good. Not perfect but a lot better then most people say. I still believe that many of the negative comments about EQ2 graphics are from people who can not or have not maxed the graphic settings. I say this since I simply do not see the same thing. One comment about EQ2 never looking dark is wrong. First you need to turn off your personnel torch effect (which I hate anyway) you also need to lower ambient light effects, check your gamma setting. I love how dark and moody EQ2 can be. One response talked about how EQ2 only has one light source simply not true. If you set your light options you can have as many as 10 each effecting the enviroment according to it's own physics. Each casting shadows based on its placement in the enviroment. When I stated this I was told I was wrong and did not understand graphics. Well I am not wrong I see the 10 different effects all the time. You can not argue a point with someone who refuses to accept they may have made a wrong statement. When it come to EQ2 I hear a lot of wrong statement. Mostly I think because the person simply has not seen EQ2 maxed with a good framerate. I stand by this opinion.

SOE offers more graphic options then any other mmo. For someone like me this is great I have tested and researched every option and what it does in relationship to the other options. I have even talked directly to SOE about all the options. However there might be to many for some players and most do not know how they really effect the look and performance of the game. I have had other players over to my house and when they see EQ2 on my system they always seem to ask how come it looks so good on your setup. Like I said earlier if you have your ducks in a row EQ2 stands up to the best mmos today graphically. Getting your ducks in a row with EQ2 is to hard for most and a huge mistake by SOE. Getting EQ2 to perform good with your system should be easier.

Other issues about lack of armor styles are true they need more but what they have are great. I also noticed a lot of the negative comments are really more about SOE then the game itself. I think some people really dislike SOE so much that their feelings about anything SOE does will reflect this. Even in this thread many comments include SOE broken promises, lieing by SOE to keep people paying, Lack of art direction, and others. SOE is not the devil as some believe. They made a huge mistake and hurt many players with the SWG thing but they have done EQ2 right in my opinion.

Many say how bad the armor design is in EQ2 here are a couple of my toons. Not the best shots I did this quick. I find them pretty cool looking. Not sure why some find them so bad. One thing that is different with armor in EQ2, then other mmos I have played, is the toons look like they are really wearing armor. The armor does not appear to be just painted on. One thing a lot of people miss in EQ2 because it is subtle is the physics. Things seem to have and move with weight. In the case of the armor it feels like real armor.

Alternate models have been mentioned. Here is a shoot of one of my toons with original look and alternate models. I think both look pretty cool.

Originally posted by M1sf1t

 

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Originally posted by eccoton

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Originally posted by Moirae

 

If you don't like it so much Misfit, then go elsewhere. If all you're going to do is complain about an old game with a much more realistic style than most games, we'd rather not hear it.

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I agree Moirae but I do not mind hearing it.
M1sf1t, Yes I do get it that is why I play the game. The difference is you did not enjoy it and I do. Unlike you I believe SOE will fix the models this year.
I was a SWG vet if anyone has a reason to hate SOE I do. Master Creature Handler, Master Bio-engineer, Master Jedi. Need I say more. I will never go back to SWG but I have seen SOE handle EQ2 well and improve it. The last patch really fixed a lot of performance issue. I also have been very happy with the expansions and adventure packs. So I believe and have faith in SOE's handling of EQ2. You do not. The fact I have a different opinion of EQ2 then you do, does not mean I do not get it. I am also in EQ2 for the long haul so I am patient. As long as SOE keeps going in the right direction I will be playing EQ2 even while I play newer games.
What I do not get is, if someone hates a game so much why read that games forums? Why waste time? I put this post here and not general chat for that reason. I have witnessed a general dislike of EQ2 graphics by a lot of mmo players. I did not want to waste their time by posting in general I wanted people who where players or really interested in EQ2 to comment. This is public forum so anyone can post but again I wonder? If you hate a game so much why the interest in reading its forums or even wasting time posting comments there. I hate Dark and Light and when I stopped playing the game I never read another post about it, as far as I was concerned it was a dead game. However I realize people still play it and as much as I hated it who am I to try to enlighten them to why they are wasting their time and money. If they like it good for them. After 10 years of serious mmo experience, a love of this form of entertainment, and following the industry, I do get it.

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You make way to many assumptions. I don't hate EQ2's game play. As a whole I think EQ2 has a lot to offer and more so then WoW game play wise but I do hate how they reuse the same old armor/cloth models over and over again. I also dislike how SOE has ignored and left old zones looking bland and lifeless.

I hate how long it has taken SOE to fix the graphical performance and the time it took for them to say that their art direction sucks, let alone how long the skeletal revamp is taking. Artistically and even graphically EQ2 has been left behind by current games and eventually upcoming titles. Game play wise EQ2 is good but the art direction and horrible performance, and horrendous non-modular design of the graphic engine (which was originally designed for a Intel single core CPU which never was ) sucks.

Sorry if am not a hardcore fanboi of EQ2. I just know what bothered me about this game to the point where I just could not take it anymore.

M1sf1t, you make a wrong assumption. I never said you hated EQ2, the last paragrah was not about you. The only part of my post that was directed to you specifically was my comment reguarding your insultingly toned statement that I did not get it. The second paragrah was trying to show you that I have reasons for my beliefs reguarding SOE and EQ2 and that I did get it. All the rest of my post was, talking in a general way about people who seem to do what I described, in response to Moirae's statement. That is why I made the comment that "I did not mind hearing it" in reguards to your posts.  You make some valid points but do you need to do it in such a condescending way?

Originally posted by Redmow

 I agree with Majestico. I thought the graphics were pretty cool. And I'm one of those loons that thinks graphics makes or breaks a game...the style not the crispness/realness.

I agree we are in a time with games now that the graphics have to be good. Game play has to be good but I think the days of good games with bad graphic, being a hit, are fading off into the sunset.

Originally posted by Moirae

If you don't like it so much Misfit, then go elsewhere. If all you're going to do is complain about an old game with a much more realistic style than most games, we'd rather not hear it.

I agree Moirae but I do not mind hearing it. 

M1sf1t, Yes I do get it that is why I play the game. The difference is you did not enjoy it and I do. Unlike you I believe SOE will fix the models this year.

 I was a SWG vet if anyone has a reason to hate SOE I do. Master Creature Handler, Master Bio-engineer, Master Jedi.  Need I say more. I will never go back to SWG but I have seen SOE handle EQ2 well and improve it. The last patch really fixed a lot of performance issue. I also have been very happy with the expansions and adventure packs. So I believe and have faith in SOE's handling of EQ2. You do not. The fact I have a different opinion of EQ2 then you do, does not mean I do not get it. I am also in EQ2 for the long haul so I am patient. As long as SOE keeps going in the right direction I will be playing EQ2 even while I play newer games.

What I do not get is, if someone hates a game so much why read that games forums? Why waste time? I put this post here and not general chat for that reason. I have witnessed a general dislike of EQ2 graphics by a lot of mmo players. I did not want to waste their time by posting in general I wanted people who where players or really interested in EQ2 to comment. This is public forum so anyone can post but again I wonder? If you hate a game so much why the interest  in reading its forums or even wasting time posting comments there. I hate Dark and Light and when I stopped playing the game I never read another post about it, as far as I was concerned it was a dead game. However I realize people still play it and as much as I hated it who am I to try to enlighten them to why they are wasting their time and money. If they like it good for them. After 10 years of serious mmo experience, a love of this form of entertainment, and following the industry, I do get it.

Originally posted by Daffid011

SOE has been talking about revamping the uni skeleton of character models since a little bit after launch, so I wouldn't hold my breath for that.  However, if the new cosmetic armor resolves the problem should they really revamp it?  I say that, because if it give players the ability to customize their look and doesn't tax the processor rendering different objects then why do it?

The reason they are doing it is it will allow them to make more and varied armor and weapond designs easier and allow better game performance.

Originally posted by Bruwin

Seriously, I don't see how people can justify defending EQ2's graphics anymore.

Simple, I like them.

Originally posted by rmk70

EQ2 graphics, animations, and particle effects all suck ass. Plain and simple.

Actually if you have the ability to set your particle effects to max setting they are by far the best in any mmo out at the moment. In big battles it is a really fantastic light show. Again you have to have a good system that handles EQ2 well to allow you to do this. Plain and simple.

 Much of EQ2 graphics is about taste, some is poor design but most is the ability to max the graphic setting. Many people who put down EQ2 graphic simple have not had the pleasure of playing game on maxed graphics.

The problem is is takes effort and a good system to do this. When I started this post I mention the graphics I was refering to were maxed or near maxed settings. High rez setting and anti-aliasing on. Many have never seen the game with anti-aliasing. To get this you have to edit the eq2.ini file. There is no setting to do this in the graphic options (if there is someone let me know please). You also have to set your video card to over-ride application graphic control to get anti-aliasing. The particle effects and character animations (again you have to set animations to max most do not do this) are the best I have ever seen and I have played them all.

Originally posted by M1sf1t

The same crappy armor I've seen in this game since it launched. Only they just keep changing textures. Thanks for reminding me why I don't play EQ2. The armor and clothing models have not change since the game launched.

This is not a valid comment anymore since Kunark has come out. They have added new armor sets and appearance armor. You have equiped armor which has your stats and appearnace armor which is what people see. This is a great addition that allows much more creative looks. WoW could really use this feature. SOE is also reworking the charater models which will allow them the ability to make more armor and weapon designs easier. The player's characters have never looked better and more individual in EQ2 then they do now and it will even be better in the future.

Originally posted by gitawego

 

Originally posted by alakram

Imho what EQ2 need is a better art direction but the engine is awesome. And I like EQ2 graphics I love how smooth it runs on my comp. But i understand the art direction is, sometimes, weird or just too personal, so a lot of people dont like it.

I agree with you, in fact, the character animations in EQ2 are pretty decent compared to the other mmogs on the market. But the character art style, the terrain texture are just so poor...

 

SOE should fire their curent art direction!!

I think the problem is not that all the enviroments are poorly done. Some zone are fantastic in EQ2. However others are uninspired. So there is an unbalanced feel to the EQ2 enviroments. You will go from a zone that is spectacular then in to a lack luster area. One of the good things in Wow are all the zones seem equally handled. The same can be said for LOTRO. When EQ2 has a zone right it is fantastic but I would say about 1/3 of the zones could use a facelift.

Originally posted by quaiky

i guess a lot of this character model and art direction discussion is depending on personal preference.

if you like asian anime style graphics lwith oversized weapons, overstyled often very sexy looking armors and such then you won't like eq2 character arts. 

original eq2 art direction was more aimed at a realistic look with armors and weapons based on real medieval looks. Eq2 now is a bit different to how it was at start as they added items with expansions that are more fantasy style with expansions and regular updates.

 

wow has definitely a good art direction but i personally don't like that cartoony style.

Lotro has definitely nice environments but i really have a problem with the character arts in that game which got me to the point that even with lifetime sub i never got past level 30 with any of my chars (i somehow cannot connect to the character and thats really important for me playing the game).

Vanguard has some really good looking places and architectures, but overall the world and characters were lacking for me.

looking at my played times in fantasy mmos in the last 1-2 years i have eq2 on top, followed by wow. Lotro and Vanguard both got some time and money from me too, but while I tried a lot otthers too i just could not get into the other games (especially not the asian ones).

I tried all of these games as well and put significant time into each and have the same feelings about them. For me LOTRO was the biggest let down. Not sure how they could have made such fantastic enviroments but missed the mark on characters. Vanguard has so many problems we all know about but I really liked the look of both the enviroments and characters. I am giving Vanguard another chance and going back this weekend. As usual I do not expect to stay but I want to see if things are getting better, It has been about 3 months since I tried last.