I like the cartoony graphics.  Reminds me of Warcraft games.  As for realitic graphic games like EQ2 and such....to me these work so hard to try to make an unreal thing real that they create something that is lifeless and has not sense of style.  They can have all the pretty skies they want, but I want something that is fun not life like.

To me Eve Online loses out on how you can gain skill.  I just can not get into real world time skill gain as the only way.

In my opinion no game had better character customization using a skill tree than Shadowbane.  You could met a priest in that game that was a tank, a healer, or a buffer.  Looking at the character at a distance you did not know.  That to me makes it interesting.

Originally posted by Trustus

If you train your learning skills it means you won’t be able to do much accept mining with your small ship, this will not give you much money but it will give you tons of time to read more on how you are going to keep training your char, what setups to get for the ships you want to fly etc and of course get yourself more familiar with the game mechanics and terminology.

Once you are done with the learning skills, I would say 1.5month or so. You can start thinking more into your next step for your char.

The main reason I can not get into the game.  Hey come buy our game.  Spend 1.5 months getting skills learned then you can play....... then give me that first month and a half for free. 

Ah the age old debate of pvp and how to make it acceptable.  I still go with with the idea that everything in the game should have concequences.  If you kill someone much lower than you you should lose some kind of standing in the game.  If you lose too much standing you can not go into the "good" towns or the guards have you marked.  Also they should put in something like Eve where you can put a bounty on that person's head with your own loot.  Make it so that if you want to randomly kill you can, but you life is going to be harder just as if you were a criminal in the real world.  The bounty system will also encourage other people that might not normally like PvP due to lack of reward have something to gain.  Maybe beside just cash the bounty gives you some standing boost.

Just my thoughts. 

The only other thing if you are going to have looting and completely open PvP stealth has to be changed.  People need to chance to escape.  I could accept motionless stealth, but being able to see them coming and running for you life can be fun.  Just standing there killing rabbits for your first quest and out of no where something flashes on your screen and you die will just piss you off.

Not reupping till they add more land mass to the game.

Originally posted by Arndur

I think WAR will take a nice chunk of wow subs. If it does great i wouldnt be shocked to see it take a million subs. Yes they already make lots of money but 1mil subs will be a huge hit to their income. Plus i dont really think SC2 could hurt WAR and AoC so much since SC2 isnt a mmo. When it comes to buying games i dont let one or the other from keeping me from buying the game. Also i agree with the guy above me. Blizz would just make the same people mad by releasing the Sunwell now and the xpac in a few months. I think they care about WAR and AoC as they will both hit the wow numbers at least for a bit.

Also as the always coming out round xmas or summer.

Vanguard, LOTRO, fury, and tablua rasa did not come out at those times and those were the last 4 big MMOs to come out.

Maybe you do not let it effect your buying because unlike many other people $50 is not a lot of money for you to shell out on a game that is generally decided to be crap a week later.  i.e. Vanguard.

Originally posted by forest-nl

Originally posted by Horusra

I see a failure.  The lastest Elder Scroll games succeed because of the freedom and modding allowed in them.  Those are two facters that kill MMORPGs.

Why should freedom in a mmorpg kill it?

Every game with a lot of freedom ends up with a very small fan base or failures in the code because freedom breeds hacks, cheats, and exploits.  People as much as they do not want to admit it what structure. 

I see a failure.  The lastest Elder Scroll games succeed because of the freedom and modding allowed in them.  Those are two facters that kill MMORPGs.

People should accept that Starcraft 2 alone might screw AoC and WAR at release.  I know a lot of people (if those games all came out together) would rather get SC2 and let AoC and WAR sink or swim before they buy and join.

there is another factor for Blizzard that is in the pipes...Starcraft 2 release.  This game is close to hitting the market and they might not want to compete with themselves for the box sales.  Most WoW fans are Blizzard product fans...why put out two games close together and make people with lower incomes choose between them.

Releasing Starcraft 2 in summer and WoLK in Winter next year would be smart and give them an income boost in the 2nd and 4th quarters next year.

I think MMORPG's and other games that charge a monthly fee need to realize that they need to give the game software for free.  Screw the free month in my opinion.  If i could try the game for a month for only $15 or even just get 7 day trial period for free then I would be more incline to try out new games when they first come out.  I look at that $50 box and say..."Nah I will wait till i can get in for free and try it."  I am sure a lot of people are like this.

I can not tell you if I like the game or not, but I am not risking $50 on it.

Originally posted by Tonev

Originally posted by Horusra

Originally posted by Tonev

 

Not once do I see the so called PvE "carebears" (A term WOW invented and is used by every PvPer in MMOs now) whining about how their quest bugged on them for hours on hours like I see PvPers now.

 

 

The term Carebear was around long before WoW...I remember that from AC Darktide and even back in the days of UO...

I was being sarcastic eventhough WOW put it as a definition in their manuals with a descripto "why am I even explaining this?"

You are explaining this because people lay the blame for the crappy quality of people in MMORPG's at the feet of WoW...when in fact those types of people were around way before that.  Campers, Gankers, Carebears, Whiners, goldfarmers, etc...these all existed in earlier games...WoW just brought in more people which brings in more of all types of players.  Thus when someone lays the blame on WoW for the currently problems with players they look like fools for making a strawman argument.

Originally posted by Tonev

 

Not once do I see the so called PvE "carebears" (A term WOW invented and is used by every PvPer in MMOs now) whining about how their quest bugged on them for hours on hours like I see PvPers now.

 

 

The term Carebear was around long before WoW...I remember that from AC Darktide and even back in the days of UO...

I think the OP is very narrow sighted on the industry.  I work part time in a development and improvement company...basically we take other people's ideas and improve them...patent it...and sell it to the original company.  Anyway.   WoW did a great service to the MMORPG industry for the long run.  Before had EQ was out and it had subscribers and people that mocked the subscribers as online, no life, losers.  Then pops WoW.  It hits hard and many of those mockers of EQ suddenly say they want in because it is the new cool thing.  They enter the online world and decide that they want to stay in online games. 

Ok in the short run you have crappy developers trying to get in on the fast track to cash in...they fail horribly because their game is too similar to WoW..this is where we are now.  But in the long run some companies are sitting back saying, "There is a hugh market now.  Lets make a game to grab some of them.   Lets not rush but take our time, keep it secret till it is closer to ready." 

You are a fool not to think that some companies are doing this.  It is the same in any industry.  it might take a few years for those game to come out, but they will hit hard and they will not be complete clones.  Blizzard basically took this model.  They saw EQ and saw a potential and they secret created it and rendered something that was great. 

The problem with todays consumer is that they think they deserve something.  You deserve nothing from companies.  People invent for the join of inventing and for money not for you.  When the consumer starts vocally whining crap comes down the line from companies trying to cash in on whiners. 

Ok anyway...people that base WoW success are shooting their online gaming futures in the foot.  Look at WAR and AoC they are smart...push back to get something that is polished and good.  The problem with those is that they released info about the games too early.  Now they just have whiners whining that a half-ass crap game with no polish is not on the market for them to try and bash. 

Accept the fact that you have to wake through a field of a lot of polished turds till a company finally releases the real thing.  When that game finally comes out get on your knees and thanks WoW for creating the hugh market for the company to make that game.

I have to say from all the stuff I see come across about EVE the control over this game seems crappy.

why do most games have crappy animations for combat.  WoW was atleast interesting to watch because it looked like your guy was fighting.  Now the animation were few, but it felt right to the toon actually fighting.  LoTR's the Champions are just move as his body is straight at a board....lame.   EQ2 same effect.  In both of those the only time the guy moves is when you do a special move.  To me this detracts from me wanting to play.  I can not get into my toon fighting if he does not appear to be fighting.  Might as well go back to Final Fantasy and just have the guy swing and then damage appear on the MOB.  I demand better animations.  It seems designers only care about environments and not the movements of the people in that environment.

Well just my two copper.

thanks.  I agree the COX looks dated I just get tired of every game having the same look for everyone.  Options seems to be missing in games these days.  but thanks for the answers

1) Customization on the scale of COH for look. 

2) player cities like Shadowbane able to be destroyed.

3) Raids that randomize each time.  the mods stay the same, but the maps change each time. 

4) Raids are for gear upgrades not just gear.  Goes back to the customization.  You have your armor already but you are raiding for bonuses to that armor. 

5) Gear that gives bonuses and penalties.  If you want to be a warrior in cloth go for it...you move and hit great, but your dmg mitgation is horrible.  With plate you are slow and have some penalty to hitting, but you can take damage like nothing else.

6) Players should be able to effect the world.  One interesting idea from LOTR, what about players playing monsters, but instead of one zone you have certain times when people can "raid" a zone with level appropriate monsters.  The idea would have to be hashed out, but it does have some possiblities for making lower zones fun again for high levels.

7) I have a story and I am sticking to it....ugh...developers needs to make fluid stories that go with what the characters on a server are doing.  The baseline can stay the same, but do not ignore the players.  Have epic events that the players determine the outcome.  I.E. the people of a land have finally determined to push the goblins in the ruins out.  If in a certain amount of time the players on a server can defeat the goblins in the ruins then the developers change the area.  Make a player feel like they are part of the world not just some blip watching it.

8) Raiding....make a raid to get the item...let everyone get the item during the raid.  Something simple.  Now that item is no good unless you complete smaller group oriented quests to make that item work.  Quests that focus on smaller groups in quests that get progressively harder.  Raids should not be the end all.  Raids should push major storylines.  They should be used to lead to somewhere.  Completing a raid some confirm some bonus, but there should be something to do at later stages to progress your character besides just raiding.

9) mix skill and level based character advancement.  One thing I liked in Shadowbane was the character specialization.  When you found a priest just by looking you did not know if it was a melee priest or a healing priest.  Locking characters into a track ruins the fun.  Players should choose how they want to orient their class.  And the more you use some skills over others you should be better at them.

Ok just a few of my thoughts. 

Is it a question of lag that makes game shy away from customization of apperance like COX has or is it a lack of time in developing the different looks?