Originally posted by eddieg50
Agreed, If we paid once why should we have to pay for a sub again?

 

Originally posted by Sovrath

Ok, I'll be the crotchety old man here and say that it's still not a lot of money. Unless someone is dirt poor and is struggling to put food on the table (and no shame in many of us have been there) the amount of money people pay for beer, coffee, a data plan, extra snacks, heck movies, quickly end up dwarfing 15 dollars per month or 15 Euros.

Even when I was just out of school with a horrible paying job, I could have afforded that. I might have to make a few hard decisions such as not buy coffee every day but I could have done it. and that's taking into account that dollar amount in the early 90's.

 

   You are one crotchety MF:)  I hate to say this but I prob spend 40 a month on DD, but I will still complain  about the Sub, I like F2P, now that could be because as a player who averages 10-15 hrs a week playing mmo's I am not hardcore and I dont end up spending that much money on a game. As you can imagine the hardcore players are the most vocal complainers and it is hard to blame them. On the other hand most mmo's have either F2p (the casuals prefered method) or the Sub model (the hardcores prefered method). so to me it gives you the best of both worlds. I do like Fallen Earths pricing and Aions also. therfore I would love it if TSW went to a Sub-F2P model similar to Fallen Earth

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by Quirhid

 

It is supposed to be a reference, but off the top of my head I don't remember from where. Who fits the bill? -Basically your average forum dweller who bashes every modern MMO out there with every chance they get, talks about the good ol' days, hypes up indie MMOs and gets excited whenever the word sandbox gets thrown around.

I know many MMO purists too which fit the description, but I don't keep a list, sorry.

Most don't bash games because they are hipsters. If people are harking back to the old days and saying new games are shit, it's because they think new games are, well, shit.

 

It seems pretty reasonable to be annoyed that all the stuff that made mmos unique, it being replaced by mechanisms you find in every other gaming genre. Ooh but it's more popular!

 

Besides I can think of a fair few people who bash on "older" games and mechanisms using pretty poor arguments and using "but new games are more popular so they must be better" as a back up.

I've probably said this a dozen times before: No one plays shitty games. If people are flocking toward a game, there's something good in it. Even if you don't get it, even if I don't get it, clearly those people are getting something out of it.

Also, no matter how badly it fits your own preferences, popularity still remains the only objective measure of quality. It is evidence of some quality. You can't dismiss evidence just because you don't agree with it.

Don't be the Flat Earth Society-guy.

   I have been in Advertising for about 20 years now and I can tell you that if your company does a great job advertising your product or service it can turn lemons into lemonade. That being said if your company is to stay afloat you still have to have a core and continue to build a game that the masses want. Blizzard did this perfectly, they took a look at Everquest, looked at what made it popular and what the masses said they wanted different and pulled out what may be described as a miricle.

    They placed their game heading directly at the mainstream population, they decided plenty of quests ala Everquest , some exploration and somewhat challenging combat-these made the adults happy. Then they gave their game a cartoonish look to attract the kids. Now why did this not turn off the adults-because the adults had enough to keep them happy and just accepted the cartoonish graphics. What has happened over the last few years is this, WOW has the adults hooked even convincing them the game is not for kids, in the meantime they have done as much as possible to attract kids and teens while knowing they have the adults and their 9 alts maxed to the guilds hooked. Brilliant, Brilliant strategy, I bow down to the Advertisers and marketers of Blizzard

Originally posted by cybertrucker

I find it humorous at times. Seeing people post things like "I played the game for 500 hours and it's terrible I will never go back"  what even makes it more humorous is that many times in these posts the game has only  been out for 2 months. 

My recommendation is to get a job and a life. I would hate everything too if all I did was sit in front of the computer playing 22 hours a day.

 

 LOL,  Agree a BIG 100%. people always come on and say, "I have 4 characters at level 130, but I cannot stand the game"

Originally posted by Ecnali

So, are people still playing this game? When I finally came to my senses and stopped playing -  (after leaving in January '12, and then paying to come back in April '12 or so, only to leave after two days - talk about wasting money!)  I knew that others really still enjoyed the game- people that I was actually in contact with!. I didn't understand them or why they liked it, but they did. I guess they really really liked huttball...really.

I have a confession to make...they say it's good for the soul - I must admit that  probably the main reason I couldn't bear SWTOR was that it wasn't SWG. - Yes, I admit it. I really miss crafting, housing, and well, just generally running around. SWTOR had nothing at all like it. nothing. I still get queasy thinking about crafting in SWTOR....

I swore that I would never pay for another SOE game...and I'm pretty down on EA and Lucas Arts now (for killing off SWG) and feel nothing but sadness for Bioware.

I won't be going back to SWTOR when its F2P.  I'm not dissing F2P  - I love LOTRO - I'm a Star Wars nerd, and Tolkien is a god! True, LOTRO's crafting and housing are...how to put this...well, it's nowhere near SWGs...or EVE's for that matter, but at least it's not as craptacular as SWTORs.  F2P really makes in-game economies sort of moot - but still, LOTRO is managed far far better than SWTOR.

Even though I swore I would never give SOE money again, it the back of my head...the seed of a thought has taken root...what if SOE actually makes EQII somewhat SWG like with crafting an housing? Is this thought even worth thinking? I've already been devastated by SOE once....could I handle it again?

I'd like to hear your musings on all these jumbled up things percolating in my head.

Miss you already!

     I certainly understand your feelings of Burnout, it is tough for me to play a mmo for longer than 3 months without getting bored.  I think one thing led you astray, Most people who like Tor  like it for its Story, Quests, Production value and some like it for its PvP.  Most do not play Tor for its crafting, or housing. those things are certainly serviceable along with the space game but they do not stand out. I think if Tor could add an excellent space game and open the World up a bit it would be fantastic

Originally posted by hyllstarter
After reading the list of all the stuff I cant do in the free to play model I will not be playing agian. Now I might patch it and let my 11 year old son play it on the weekends when i'm watching football. Because at 11 he might not notice how bad the game is.

   I think you are getting SWTOR mixed up with WOW, I found that 11 year olds love WOW-that is the game to go with for children

Originally posted by Khaeros

I would have said Vanguard right off the bat.

 

After the F2P conversion though, Vanguard didn't seem to get as many players back in as I'd hoped, and it's still very buggy.  Add to that the state of the dev team (which still seems like a joke) and it's still a bad game.

 

I want to suggest Vanguard because deep down I know it's a game built on really neat concepts.  However, the execution (and maintainence) of the game is so horrible that I can't realistlcally suggest it to anyone except people who are already really invested into the game or who are masochists that love interacting with bugs.

 

LotRO has an active dev team, some neat content, and has a much more lively community than current Vanguard.  Plus, it has fewer bugs.  LotRO has some glaring problems, but if it were a choice between LotRO and Vanguard, LotRO wins hands down.

 

People who suggest Vanguard are probably reminiscing about their past with the game, but I am writing this from a current perspective.  Currently, you'll have more fun in LotRO.

   I currently play Vanguard, both Lotro and Vanguard are good games, i find there are more things to do in Vanguard, Crafting is better and diplomacy is a nice change. Vanguard has a more open world.   But both are good and I advise the op to try both as they are "F2P"